2010 GAA Football Rankings

patmac

Anyway let the annual debate begin using this method
Here are my GAA rankings based on the following criteria (and after discussion from last years thread):
Championship win: 8pts
Championship win after draw: 4pts Championship draw 4pts.
League Div 1 win: 4pts League Div 1 draw 2pts.
League Div 2 win: 3pts League Div 1 draw 1.5pts.
League Div 3 win: 2pts League Div 1 draw 1pts.
League Div 4 win: 1pt League Div 1 draw .5pt.
Bonus points: All-Ireland winners :36 pts
Provincial winners:24 pts
League winners:8pts.
So for 2010 (2009 in brackets).
1(2)Cork 120
2(6)Meath 68
3(5)Dublin 60
3(1)Kerry 60
5(12)Down 59.5
6(3)Tyrone 56
7(15)Roscommon 50
8(7)Kildare 49
9(25)Armagh 42
10(20)Louth32
11(19)Sligo28.12(22)Wexford26.13(10)Derry24.13(10)Galway24.13(4)Mayo24.13(13)Monaghan24.17(27)Offaly22.18(18)Laois21.19(8)Donegal20.20(20)Cavan16.20(29)Waterford16.22(17)Tipperary15.5.23(15)Limerick14.5.24(14)Antrim14.25(9)Wicklow13.5.26(23)Longford10.5.27(24)Fermngh10.28(26)Westmeath8.29(30)Clare6.30(28)Leitrim4.31(30)Carlow3.5.32(32)London1.33(33)Kilkenny0.34(33)New York0.


Obviously Meath the second best county in Ireland is strange but they won a provincial title as did Kerry, Tyrone and Roscommon, while Down beaten finalists won feck all.
So which is the second best county in a year in which Cork were dominant.
Anyway all a bit of fun.

patmac

This is the ranking for the last 5 years with Cork replacing Tyrone in second behind Kerry.

1(1)Kerry 478
2(4)Cork 378
3(3)Dublin 323
4(2)Tyrone 316
5(8)Meath 231
6(5)Mayo 226
7(6)Galway 200
8(9)Donegal 192
9(7)Armagh 185
10(11)Kildare 18411(10)Derry17212(17)Down15213(12)Laois14814(13)Monaghan13415(15)Sligo13116(14)Wexford12717(16)Westmeath12018(19)Louth10719(24)Roscommon10720(18)Fermngh10421(22)Offaly84.522(21)Limerick81.523(23)Longford74.524(25)Wicklow73.525(20)Cavan6726(29)Tipperary53.527(28)Antrim50.528(27)Leitrim44.529(26)Clare4130(31)Waterford39.531(30)Carlow24.532(32)London533(33)Kilkenny134(34)New York0

Swoosh

patmac wrote: »

This is the ranking for the last 5 years with Cork replacing Tyrone in second behind Kerry.

1(1)Kerry 478
2(4)Cork 378
3(3)Dublin 323
4(2)Tyrone 316
5(8)Meath 231
6(5)Mayo 226
7(6)Galway 200
8(9)Donegal 192
9(7)Armagh 185
10(11)Kildare 18411(10)Derry17212(17)Down15213(12)Laois14814(13)Monaghan13415(15)Sligo13116(14)Wexford12717(16)Westmeath12018(19)Louth10719(24)Roscommon10720(18)Fermngh10421(22)Offaly84.522(21)Limerick81.523(23)Longford74.524(25)Wicklow73.525(20)Cavan6726(29)Tipperary53.527(28)Antrim50.528(27)Leitrim44.529(26)Clare4130(31)Waterford39.531(30)Carlow24.532(32)London533(33)Kilkenny134(34)New York0

dublin ahead of tyrone????:eek:

baztard

My Top 10:

1) Cork
2) Down
3) Kildare
4) Dublin
5) Kerry
6) Tyrone
7) Meath
8) Limerick
9) Louth
10) Roscommon

rpurfield

very interesting stuff pat,youve put a lot of thought into it obviously dublin are ahead of tyrone over the five years due to the five provincal titles?i know ya can jig things round and people will say only for this and that but good idea with the point scoring.obviously im delighted meath are second ha ha

aidan24326

I think the problem here is that the bonus points are too high. That's what has Meath in a somewhat false position, and Roscommon to a lesser extent.

I'd suggest:

AI winners 20 pts
Runners-up 10 pts
Prov winners 8 pts
League Winners 8 pts

Anyway I think this would be my top 10

1.Cork
2.Down
3.Kildare
4.Dublin
5.Tyrone
6.Kerry
7.Meath
8.Limerick
9.Louth
10.Roscommon

patmac

aidan24326 wrote: »

I think the problem here is that the bonus points are too high. That's what has Meath in a somewhat false position, and Roscommon to a lesser extent.

I'd suggest:

AI winners 20 pts
Runners-up 10 pts
Prov winners 8 pts
League Winners 8 pts

Anyway I think this would be my top 10

1.Cork
2.Down
3.Kildare
4.Dublin
5.Tyrone
6.Kerry
7.Meath
8.Limerick
9.Louth
10.Roscommon

I hear what your saying Aidan but we discussed it back in 2007 when i first had a pop at this and people were saying that bonus points for the provincial champs(8 points) were too low. I think the prov champs have been devalued somewhat by the back door and even more so this year.

Provincial champs should be rewarded. Meath's high position was down to the fact that they had to play 4 games to win Leinster although we could have deducted points for the Joe sheridan try but that's a whole different story!

hurling_lad

I think it might be an idea to differentiate the points for a championship win based on whether it is in qualifiers, provincial championship or AI series (i.e. quarter finals on) in that order ascending.
The idea with having lower points for qualifiers is that you would be playing a team that has already lost that year and this shouldn't count for as much as a win over an unbeaten team (in provincial championship) or a quarter finalist team.

Browney7

Fair play for doing this Pat but I can't in Gods name see how you can justify putting Limerick behind Waterford who they beat in the league final and the championship and behind Cavan who got an all merciful dusting from Cork whereas you could argue after Kerry, Limerick were the closest to the All Ireland champions (bringing them to extra time).

This is down to the system being based on results I'd imagine but I've no idea how you could alter your system to be honest with you

aidan24326

patmac wrote: »

I think the prov champs have been devalued somewhat by the back door and even more so this year.

There's no doubt the provincial championships have been devalued. Though I'd still prefer to keep the backdoor system rather than the way it used to be. If a team wins the All-Ireland now they have to do it the hard way and that's the way it should be.

But what did Roscommon achieve by winning Connaught this year? Not alot if truth be told.

grenache

Cavan, Offaly, Waterford and Tipp all ahead of Limerick?

While i appreciate your efforts, your system is blatantly flawed Pat.

patmac

grenache wrote: »

Cavan, Offaly, Waterford and Tipp all ahead of Limerick?

While i appreciate your efforts, your system is blatantly flawed Pat.

I think I may have that wrong as I had Waterford beating Limerick in the Div 4 final, should have checked.:o Maybe the mods might let me edit it!
Should read 20.(15) Limerick16.5 (21)(20)Cavan16. 22(17)Tipperary15.5.23 23(29)Waterford14

Also these were first done in 2006 http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2054999351
and then tweaked again in 2007.


Also it's not about which is the better team it's about results.

At the end of the day there are only 6 real trophies in Gaa Sam Maguire, 4 provisionals and the league. What would you rather have a Provincial title or an AI runners-up medal?

Big Pussy Bonpensiero

My Rankings of 2010:
(1) Cork
(2) Dublin
(3) Down
(4) Kerry
(5) Tyrone
(6) Kildare
(7) Meath
(8) Armagh
(9) Louth
(10) Sligo
(11) Monaghan
(12) Roscommon

Not for want of trying, but I think it's impossible to judge the rest of the counties (also I just cannot place the likes of Longford and Wexford ahead of Galway and Mayo). Have Sligo ahead of the Rossies on account of the fact they beat Galway and Mayo where as Roscommon "only" beat Liatrom and Sligo.

patmac

THFC wrote: »

My Rankings of 2010:
(1) Cork
(2) Dublin
(3) Down
(4) Kerry
(5) Tyrone
(6) Kildare
(7) Meath
(8) Armagh
(9) Louth
(10) Sligo
(11) Monaghan
(12) Roscommon

Have Sligo ahead of the Rossies on account of the fact they beat Galway and Mayo where as Roscommon "only" beat Liatrom and Sligo.

What county were more successful?

baztard

THFC wrote: »

My Rankings of 2010:
(1) Cork
(2) Dublin
(3) Down
(4) Kerry
(5) Tyrone
(6) Kildare
(7) Meath
(8) Armagh
(9) Louth
(10) Sligo
(11) Monaghan
(12) Roscommon

.

Kildare were better than both Tyrone and Kerry, and would have beaten both if they had played.

Also Down were better than Dublin. Dublin couldn't last a close 70 minutes in the semi, Down could.

I agree with you on Sligo, I guess they done all the hard work by knocking out Mayo and Galway. I dont know how they lost to Roscommon, but their self implosion against Down was a result of the shock of losing to the Rossies and the 6 day turn around.

Big Pussy Bonpensiero

patmac wrote: »

What county were more successful?

Well thats a matter of opinion.
Sligo beat two of the nations traditional heavyweights and had two more games in the Champo (if you include the replay against Galway). Also Sligo got promoted in the League for the second year running. I know the Rossies got to the QF's but I would consider Sligo's achievements significantly greater.

baztard wrote: »

Kildare were better than both Tyrone and Kerry, and would have beaten both if they had played.

Also Down were better than Dublin. Dublin couldn't last a close 70 minutes in the semi, Down could.

I agree with you on Sligo, I guess they done all the hard work by knocking out Mayo and Galway. I dont know how they lost to Roscommon, but their self implosion against Down was a result of the shock of losing to the Rossies and the 6 day turn around.

I don't agree with you on Down. Dublin beat a much fancied Tyrone side and lost by a point to Cork in the semi. Many said that they could've gone on to win if BB hadn't kicked that dreadful wide towards the end and McConnell hadn't given away the peno and a few free's. Actually now that I think about Dublin threw away that game against Cork, who then beat Down in the final, relatively comfortably.
As for Kildare/Tyrone/Kerry I think that's very subjective. IMO Cork put in their best performance against Kerry but failed to beat them. They (Kerry) were then missing three players for the Down match, two of them former player of the years. I thought Tyrone were - as usual - excellent and on course for another semi-final showdown with Cork until the Dubs totally overpowered them.
Next year I shall be betting on Kerry, and I think I should get long enough odds on that!

blackbelt

I'll have a stab at it.

1.Cork
2.Kerry
3.Dublin
4.Tyrone
5.Down
6.Kildare
7.Meath
8.Monaghan
9.Armagh
10.Sligo
11.Louth
12.Limerick
13.Mayo
14.Galway
15.Derry
16.Donegal
17.Wexford
18.Roscommon
19.Antrim
20.Laois
21.Fermanagh
22.Tipperary
23.Cavan
24.Westmeath
25.Wicklow
26.Longford
27.Offaly
28.Leitrim
29.Clare
30.Waterford
31.Carlow
32.London
33.New York
34.Kilkenny

Cork - AI and NFL1 winners tis year.Have been around and contesting the All Ireland the last 7 years.1st place.

Kerry - Last years AI winners and this years Munsters champions.Beat Cork this year in the championship after a replay and dominated the last 10 years.2nd place.

Dublin - Won Leinster the previous 5 years to this year and have contested 3 semi finals in the last 5 years.Narrowly lost to eventual champions.A young team in transition making the semi final and beating 2008 AI champions Tyrone.

Down - Wouldn't have ranked higher from other years but made Division 2 final and AI final.They beat Tyrone in 2008 and Kerry this year.

Kildare - Just pipped at the post by Down who beat them.They have beaten a lot of northern teams and have been in 2 quarter finals and a semi final under McGeeney.Ranked ahead of Meath after they beat them in quarter final.

Meath -Coughed up a distorted winning result against Dublin and won Leinster controversially against Louth.Not a great year but some potential in the team if managed correctly.Contesting 2 semi finals and winning Leinster in the last 4 years ranks them 7th.

Monaghan - Pretty lucky to be ranked 8th.NFL1 status and an Ulster Final place keeps the in the top 8.Probably in danger of slipping down a few places next year if they fail to push on.

Armagh - Eliminated by a very good Dublin team and anihilated by Monaghan.Winning NFL2 and winning Ulster titles until 2 years ago keeps them in top 10.

Sligo - Very good league form over the last two years and beating the big two in Connacht is a good feat for a team who came from Division 3.

Louth - Were coasting in Leinster until "that goal".The true Leinster Champions were punished and had to contend with making the last 16 where they lost to Dublin.Highlight of the season was beating heavy favourites Kildare in Navan.

Limerick - Probably should have won the Munster Championship and could have taken Cork if they were at their best.Failure to reach the quarter finals and make an appearance in Croke Park pushed them back.

Mayo - Gone back a lot over the years.They just go further away from an All Ireland every year.Their shock loss to Longford drags them right out of the top 10.

Galway - Eliminated by Wexford who are better team than Longford but to struggle against New York is a worrying tale.Taking a very similar path to Mayo and I would rank them slightly better.

Derry - Relegation from NFL1 and a comprehensive beating from Kildare takes Derry down a few places.With both Bradleys gone,they are in a huge void.

Donegal - Inconsistent and going backward.Contesting the odd quarter final over the years keep them in the top half.

Wexford - Showing signs of small improvement.Probably should have pushed on and beat Dublin.Went out tamely to Cork but not before taking out Galway.Matty Forde's return is welcomed and the team seem to play better with him.I fancy them to be better next year.

Roscommon - Won Connaught this year from under the radar.Probably being a bit harsh on their ranking but other years will have dragged them down.

Antrim - Could be a bit harsh in their ranking but pushing teams is not enough.They made the last 16 last year and an Ulster Final appearance and got beaten by Kildare this year but until they win Ulster or make the quarter finals,they probably won't move many places.

Laois - If they were in the top half of the country they would have got promotion from NFL2 and beaten Meath at least.Instead they stayed in NFL2 and were dumped out by Tipperary who are improving but would have been favoured to be beaten by Laois.

Fermanagh - Could be ahead of Laois but Fermanagh haven't done a whole lot since their dream run in 2004.

Tipperary - Making progress but Division 2 was too much for them.Highlights of the season would be beating Meath in the league and Laois in the championship.

Cavan - An annihilation by Cork and a struggle against Wicklow places them here.

Westmeath - Placed ahead of Wicklow due to beating them twice in 2 consecutive years.

Wicklow - A setback this year makes sure that they plummet down to similar places seen in other years.Failure to get out of NFL4 cements this.

Longford - Probably have produced better performances than their ranking merits but results are what matter.Taking Mayo was a huge achievement but ultimately failed to capitalise on this.

Offaly - Lacked the killer edge to knock out Down who made it to the final.


The rest is self explanatory.

Davekoolhill

Blackbelt, you are a legend.

Fair play to you for that terrific analysis. A true GAA man

flahavaj

Given that Waterford finished top of Division 4 in the league they should be a few places higher IMO.

No argument with your top placements though blackbelt, great post.

baztard

blackbelt wrote: »

I'll have a stab at it.



Cork - AI and NFL1 winners tis year.Have been around and contesting the All Ireland the last 7 years.1st place.

Kerry - Last years AI winners and this years Munsters champions.Beat Cork this year in the championship after a replay and dominated the last 10 years.2nd place.


etc.
.....

Good analysis for the teams overall performance over the last few years. But Kerry doing better than Down last year and the year before has little bearing on this year. It remains that at the moment Down are the better team. And I dont just say that because Down got further in the championship. I say it because they beat Kerry, and then went on to make the final. They proved that it wasn't just a lucky win. The same concept applies to Dublin and Kildare and a few other teams. They are significantly better teams this year than in previous years, and should be higher up the rankings.

Your rankings reflect who performed better over the last few years, but not who were the best in the 2010 season.

DH2K9

blackbelt wrote: »

I'll have a stab at it.



Cork - AI and NFL1 winners tis year.Have been around and contesting the All Ireland the last 7 years.1st place.

Kerry - Last years AI winners and this years Munsters champions.Beat Cork this year in the championship after a replay and dominated the last 10 years.2nd place.

Dublin - Won Leinster the previous 5 years to this year and have contested 3 semi finals in the last 5 years.Narrowly lost to eventual champions.A young team in transition making the semi final and beating 2008 AI champions Tyrone.

Down - Wouldn't have ranked higher from other years but made Division 2 final and AI final.They beat Tyrone in 2008 and Kerry this year.

Kildare - Just pipped at the post by Down who beat them.They have beaten a lot of northern teams and have been in 2 quarter finals and a semi final under McGeeney.Ranked ahead of Meath after they beat them in quarter final.

Meath -Coughed up a distorted winning result against Dublin and won Leinster controversially against Louth.Not a great year but some potential in the team if managed correctly.Contesting 2 semi finals and winning Leinster in the last 4 years ranks them 7th.

Monaghan - Pretty lucky to be ranked 8th.NFL1 status and an Ulster Final place keeps the in the top 8.Probably in danger of slipping down a few places next year if they fail to push on.

Armagh - Eliminated by a very good Dublin team and anihilated by Monaghan.Winning NFL2 and winning Ulster titles until 2 years ago keeps them in top 10.

Sligo - Very good league form over the last two years and beating the big two in Connacht is a good feat for a team who came from Division 3.

Louth - Were coasting in Leinster until "that goal".The true Leinster Champions were punished and had to contend with making the last 16 where they lost to Dublin.Highlight of the season was beating heavy favourites Kildare in Navan.

Limerick - Probably should have won the Munster Championship and could have taken Cork if they were at their best.Failure to reach the quarter finals and make an appearance in Croke Park pushed them back.

Mayo - Gone back a lot over the years.They just go further away from an All Ireland every year.Their shock loss to Longford drags them right out of the top 10.

Galway - Eliminated by Wexford who are better team than Longford but to struggle against New York is a worrying tale.Taking a very similar path to Mayo and I would rank them slightly better.

Derry - Relegation from NFL1 and a comprehensive beating from Kildare takes Derry down a few places.With both Bradleys gone,they are in a huge void.

Donegal - Inconsistent and going backward.Contesting the odd quarter final over the years keep them in the top half.

Wexford - Showing signs of small improvement.Probably should have pushed on and beat Dublin.Went out tamely to Cork but not before taking out Galway.Matty Forde's return is welcomed and the team seem to play better with him.I fancy them to be better next year.

Roscommon - Won Connaught this year from under the radar.Probably being a bit harsh on their ranking but other years will have dragged them down.

Antrim - Could be a bit harsh in their ranking but pushing teams is not enough.They made the last 16 last year and an Ulster Final appearance and got beaten by Kildare this year but until they win Ulster or make the quarter finals,they probably won't move many places.

Laois - If they were in the top half of the country they would have got promotion from NFL2 and beaten Meath at least.Instead they stayed in NFL2 and were dumped out by Tipperary who are improving but would have been favoured to be beaten by Laois.

Fermanagh - Could be ahead of Laois but Fermanagh haven't done a whole lot since their dream run in 2004.

Tipperary - Making progress but Division 2 was too much for them.Highlights of the season would be beating Meath in the league and Laois in the championship.

Cavan - An annihilation by Cork and a struggle against Wicklow places them here.

Westmeath - Placed ahead of Wicklow due to beating them twice in 2 consecutive years.

Wicklow - A setback this year makes sure that they plummet down to similar places seen in other years.Failure to get out of NFL4 cements this.

Longford - Probably have produced better performances than their ranking merits but results are what matter.Taking Mayo was a huge achievement but ultimately failed to capitalise on this.

Offaly - Lacked the killer edge to knock out Down who made it to the final.


The rest is self explanatory.

Davekoolhill wrote: »

Blackbelt, you are a legend.

Fair play to you for that terrific analysis. A true GAA man

flahavaj wrote: »

Given that Waterford finished top of Division 4 in the league they should be a few places higher IMO.

No argument with your top placements though blackbelt, great post.

People seem to forget that Down absolutely walloped Kerry, beat a good Kildare team and were hammering Cork at half time in the All-Ireland Final, surely they should be a lot higher. By the way where are Tyrone???

Big Pussy Bonpensiero

DH2K9 wrote: »

People seem to forget that Down absolutely walloped Kerry, beat a good Kildare team and were hammering Cork at half time in the All-Ireland Final, surely they should be a lot higher. By the way where are Tyrone???

Or you could say they caught Kerry at the best time possible, beat Kildare thanks to a dodgy decision by the referee and threw away a big lead in the AI final.

yahoo_moe

baztard wrote: »

Dublin couldn't last a close 70 minutes in the semi, Down could.

In fairness, Down had a massive decision go for them when they were out of that match. And Kildare still almost dragged it back at the end. If they played the match ten times, I reckon Kildare win it 6 or 7 times. Down did some great things this year but ultimately didn't do a huge amount either. We'll only really know how good they are next year I feel.

blackbelt, I assume you're doing your current ranking of the teams, rather than a specific 2010 season ranking?

Also, Pat, cheers (firstly) and (secondly) have previous years included a bonus of any size for reaching an AI final? There might have been a problem with it before but I think it deserves some recognition...

K-9

Tribune had theirs last week:

1. Cork
2. Tyrone
3. Dublin
4. Down
5. Kildare
6. Kerry

7.Meath
8. Monaghan
9. Armagh
10. Sligo
11. Louth
12. Limerick

13. Wexford
14. Galway
15. Mayo
16. Roscommon

17. Derry
18. Donegal
19. Antrim
20. Tipperary
21. Laois

22. Offaly
23. Longford
24. Fermanagh
25. Waterford
26. Westmeath
27. Cavan

28. Clare
29. Wicklow
30. Leitrim
31. Carlow
32. New York
33. London
34. Kilkenny.

Cork sit on top of the mountain after a summer for the annals

Think they have 2 - 6 arse about.

I'd have Down 2 (they did after all get to the final, beating Kerry and Kildare on the way), Kildare 3, Dublin 4 and toss of a coin between Kerry and Tyrone for 5th and 6th.

Tyrone and Kerry should be arguably higher based on past performance but this is a 2010 ranking and there are questions marks if they can get to the top again next year.

The rest probably aren't too far away with Roscommon being very low, but until they beat the big 2 in Connacht, I'd rate Sligo higher.

grenache

yahoo_moe wrote: »

In fairness, Down had a massive decision go for them when they were out of that match. And Kildare still almost dragged it back at the end. If they played the match ten times, I reckon Kildare win it 6 or 7 times. Down did some great things this year but ultimately didn't do a huge amount either. We'll only really know how good they are next year I feel.

Have to strongly disagree with you there. Down were clearly the better team on the day, even allowing for the controversial goal. To me they are the more natural footballers, their scores came far easier than Kildare's and if they were hanging on at the end it was more down to lack of experience rather than talent. Kildare were always chasing that game.