Letting air out of tyres!

TylerIE

Just wondering a kinda legal eagle perspective! Probably better in Emergency Services but thought Id throw it here...


I caught a drunk teenage idiot letting the air out of one of my tyres last night when it was parked in the city center.

I tried to keep him there (without force) while a friend went to get guards but was unable to get a guard to them in time...

Im just wondering what would the likely legal treatment be had I got a guard? He was letting the air out of the valve, not using a knife etc, however he was successful in deflating the tyre to below 20psi....

Would it fall under section 2 of the Criminal Damage Act, and perhaps even considered as being reckless as to endangering the life of others or maybe a guard might just deal with it under public order?

Bearing in mind that I would have been driving the car in a street with thousands of pedestrians afterwards, and would have been using it on a motorway subsequently that night and probably would not have realised until I was driving at speed?

Or would the guards likely just dismiss it as drunken antics?

I quote below what I percieve to be the relevant section from the Criminal Damage Act...

2.—(1) A person who without lawful excuse damages any property belonging to another intending to damage any such property or being reckless as to whether any such property would be damaged shall be guilty of an offence.

(2) A person who without lawful excuse damages any property, whether belonging to himself or another—

( a ) intending to damage any property or being reckless as to whether any property would be damaged, and

( b ) intending by the damage to endanger the life of another or being reckless as to whether the life of another would be thereby endangered,

shall be guilty of an offense.

FreudianSlippers

It's hard to say what the Garda would do in the scenario, but I suppose you're correct in what they COULD do.
There are a few Gardaí that browse this forum occasionally so maybe they'll tell you what they may do.

McCrack

Teenager-informal caution-inform parents-JLO maybe.

crabfeet

Probably charge you with wasting Garda time. There are people being murdered almost daily and you are whinging about a little bit of air that you can get for free in most petrol stations.

mcgarrett

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1961/en/act/pub/0024/sec0113.html#zza24y1961s113

TylerIE

crabfeet wrote: »

Probably charge you with wasting Garda time. There are people being murdered almost daily and you are whinging about a little bit of air that you can get for free in most petrol stations.

I strongly doubt that - its not the air its the recklessness and potential danger? And the fact that they are in turn causing the driver to carry out an offense of driving a vehicle that is unsafe?

And murders are hardly daily.

Also does that mean all traffic Gardai should be taken of the road? And front offices should be closed as its pointless them stamping forms and taking crime reports for minor incidents?

Our man in Havana

Would criminal damage be a runner here?

Jev/N

Haddockman wrote: »

Would criminal damage be a runner here?

I would have imagined so

Yawns

I suppose the guard would ask how would you like it dealt with. Would you prefer to give him a slap on the wrist and brought home to parents and have them be told of it and leave it.

Or would you go to station, make a statement, have him charged with criminal dmg or whichever applies. In the long run nothing major will happen to the young lad, he'll prob get community service or small fine but nothing major.

Owen

crabfeet wrote: »

Probably charge you with wasting Garda time. There are people being murdered almost daily and you are whinging about a little bit of air that you can get for free in most petrol stations.

Not so - under inflated tires can cause the sidewall to crack, which can result in a blow out.

mathepac

crabfeet wrote: »

Probably charge you with wasting Garda time. There are people being murdered almost daily and you are whinging about a little bit of air that you can get for free in most petrol stations.

What an uniquely asinine, ill-informed post.

Is there an equivalent to the US notion of "reckless endangerment" on our statute books?

TylerIE

mathepac wrote: »

What an uniquely asinine, ill-informed post.

Is there an equivalent to the US notion of "reckless endangerment" on our statute books?

The paragraph I quoted from the criminal damage act is the closest I think.

I had looked for reckless endangement and it only applies to endangering young childreninItial is inluded in the Criminal Justice Act 2006

Yawns

crabfeet wrote: »

Probably charge you with wasting Garda time. There are people being murdered almost daily and you are whinging about a little bit of air that you can get for free in most petrol stations.

Get real, it's hardly the replacement of the air he's worried about.

TylerIE

Yawns wrote: »

I suppose the guard would ask how would you like it dealt with. Would you prefer to give him a slap on the wrist and brought home to parents and have them be told of it and leave it.

Or would you go to station, make a statement, have him charged with criminal dmg or whichever applies. In the long run nothing major will happen to the young lad, he'll prob get community service or small fine but nothing major.

I guess I was kinda wondering more would most Gardai have paid any attention had we found one... and was there a legal basis for them to intervene or is it one of the situations that while clearly not right they had no legal basis to intervene.

I would have been happy with strong words, details taken of those involved. Had an attending guard decide s/he did want a statement owing to history or if the guy was as lippy with them as he was with me I would have went to station and did same. But realistically I just would have hoped that they just would have burnt his ears off to the point of him learning a lesson.

He was possibly 18/19 so probably out of the JLO system.

Alpha99

This antic didn't actually cause damage to your car. Theoretically the most serious offence is attempted criminal damage. I think it was best to let the little bastard go. Although it's unimaginable that he would have sued you, he could have had a civil case for false imprisonment and assault (and battary if you touched him).

Alpha99

I was just thinking about your scenario. You say he was drunk. Well, intoxication is a defence to "specific intent" crimes. Attempt is a specific intent crime, so he would have had a very good defence to the criminal damage aspect.

Zambia

Is there an offence for interfering with a motor vehicle? Sorry on my mobile cant look it up.

Our man in Havana

There is. S113 RTA 1961.

Bosco boy

I know a few judges who would go banana's if this sort of case was put in front of them in a heavy court list and would probally make a mockery of the charge before throwing it out, I think u had a good opportunity to deal with it by using a size 9 when you got him at the tyre. Maybe the home defence bill would cover you if he made a complaint!!!

Reloc8

Bosco boy wrote: »

I know a few judges who would go banana's if this sort of case was put in front of them in a heavy court list and would probally make a mockery of the charge before throwing it out, I think u had a good opportunity to deal with it by using a size 9 when you got him at the tyre. Maybe the home defence bill would cover you if he made a complaint!!!

I don't know any.

Zambia

Haddockman wrote: »

There is. S113 RTA 1961.

(1) A person shall not, without lawful authority or reasonable cause, interfere or attempt to interfere with the mechanism of a mechanically propelled vehicle while it is stationary in a public place, or get on or into or attempt to get on or into the vehicle while it is so stationary.
[GA]

(2) A person who contravenes subsection (1) of this section shall be guilty of an offence.
[GA]

(3) Where a member of the Garda Síochána has reasonable grounds for believing that a person is committing an offence under this section, he may arrest the person without warrant.

Bosco boy

Reloc8 wrote: »

I don't know any.

Good for you!

nuac

It is a mean and dangerous act to let air out of tyres.

Some do it as part of innate vandalism, and some as a "principled protest" against where the car is parked.

In either case the carowner may drive off without realising the tyre is flat, may lose control and have an accident. There will also be serious damage to the tyre and wheel rim.

I too know many judges and believe they would all deal robustly with anyone convicted of this offence.

crabfeet

It would be quite a difficult offence to prove. How could it be proven how much air was in the tyre before the alleged release took place. How could it be proven how much air was released and that the amount was sufficient to cause damage. Add in the difficulty with the arrest by the car owner and the fact that he was able to put air in his tyres so no damage was actually done.
I can't see the garda wanting to run this.

ILA

Can't imagine many Gardai willing to take this into the judicial system. The lout would most likely be given a telling off, maybe a warning, or other non-judicial method of resolution.

Bosco boy

I think the best solution would be for the garda to issue a fine on the spot for disorderly conduct or probally more appropiately intoxication (sec 4) to the offender, the offender would then have received a fine for his stupidity and the offence would not be clogging up the courts, if he fails to pay the fine he would then be summoned to court and the evidence can then be given as to what he was up to while intoxicated. The judge will know then that the reason its before the court is because he failed to pay the fine and thats the offenders doing.