British Fascist party gets dealt with in Glasgow

Provisionally

A BNP stall in Glasgow which was handing out racist flyers got dealt with at the weekend.









They also appear to be missing a banner:

jesus_thats_gre

Is that an Irish flag?

ballsymchugh

eh..

and??
some students steal a banner and kick over a table. probably have the banner in the corner beside the traffic cones.

Nehaxak

Wrong part of the town to be waffling BNP rubbish, if I'm right, they're right beside a well known NGO's Scottish office on that street and only a short walk from the Glasgow Celtic shop :P
Plonkers in fairness.

However, they're still entitled to their opinions and should be allowed to canvas support without violent protests against them.

It's a bad move though, BNP/racism (including that against Irish people from same) is heavily associated in the past with Rangers supporters - not all mind, only a small minority but enough to bring back bad memories and definitely wouldn't go down well with Celtic supporters.

Fratton Fred

poor souls. I really feel sorry for them. Peddling their racist crap and someone takes offence to it, what is the world coming to.

mikemac

They should be allowed have their stall though

I've come across socialist/communist tables in Dublin and many would like to see their tables kicked over too.
But they are entitled to hand out their leaflets too

Who decides who doesn't get to speak

Fr Tod Umptious

Is that a Palestinian flag I see in the background too, surprise surprise

THE BNP have as much right to distribute it's waffle as much as any other group.

caseyann

Ok fair enough BNP are racists in the technical term,But bring our troops home and stop the afghan war is that racist?

OhNoYouDidn't

Context is everything, as usual.

Previous generations of extreme right wing activity in Glasgow usually involved Catholics and other immigrants getting murdered. The infamous Billy Boys fascist gang from Bridgeton used to slit throats for fun and are commemerated in song heard in Ibrox and Tanndeice still.

Very recently a young Celtic fan had his throt slit bya chap called Campbell, who joined the UDA in prison and had links to all sorts of extreme right wing groups.

In an environment like that, the local Irish population are far less likely to shrug their shoulders and leave them agitiate, as they know where it ends up. To compare them to socialist / commie tables in Dublin is to SPECTACULARLY miss the point.

The far right know the risks in that part of Glasgow, and boo hoo when they get turned over.

OhNoYouDidn't

caseyann wrote: »

Ok fair enough BNP are racists in the technical term,But bring our troops home and stop the afghan war is that racist?

They didn't turn them over because they 'support the troops'. They turned them over because they are fascists in a part of Glasgow that really, really does not like fascists, and for good reason.

sensibleken

This reminds me of a time that your wan from the immigration control platform was handing out flyers and my mate dutifully nicked her handbag to much applause. ho ho ho!

mayordenis

feelingstressed wrote: »

They should be allowed have their stall though

I've come across socialist/communist tables in Dublin and many would like to see their tables kicked over too.
But they are entitled to hand out their leaflets too

Who decides who doesn't get to speak

Sorry but that's ****ing stupid,
You can't see the difference between BNP peddling hate and socialist/communists peddling the type of government they want?

mayordenis

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Is that a Palestinian flag I see in the background too, surprise surprise

THE BNP have as much right to distribute it's waffle as much as any other group.

No it doesn't
Inciting hatred is not ok, what kind of drone just accepts whatever is thrown at them?

Het-Field

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Context is everything, as usual.

Previous generations of extreme right wing activity in Glasgow usually involved Catholics and other immigrants getting murdered. The infamous Billy Boys fascist gang from Bridgeton used to slit throats for fun and are commemerated in song heard in Ibrox and Tanndeice still.

Very recently a young Celtic fan had his throt slit bya chap called Campbell, who joined the UDA in prison and had links to all sorts of extreme right wing groups.

In an environment like that, the local Irish population are far less likely to shrug their shoulders and leave them agitiate, as they know where it ends up. To compare them to socialist / commie tables in Dublin is to SPECTACULARLY miss the point.

The far right know the risks in that part of Glasgow, and boo hoo when they get turned over.

Context my arse. You are citing a group, led by a particularly nasty individual which had it's hayday in the 1930s to justify this act of thuggary intimidation, and de-facto fascism.

In fact, a better form of context is the final photograph, which indicates that the act was committted by a ragbag of lefty, anti-free speech students, who may not even be native to Glasgow. I would also have you point out that under Irish law they would be culpable for several criminal acts.

big b

Nehaxak wrote: »

Wrong part of the town to be waffling BNP rubbish, if I'm right, they're right beside a well known NGO's Scottish office on that street and only a short walk from the Glasgow Celtic shop :P
Plonkers in fairness.

However, they're still entitled to their opinions and should be allowed to canvas support without violent protests against them.

It's a bad move though, BNP/racism (including that against Irish people from same) is heavily associated in the past with Rangers supporters - not all mind, only a small minority but enough to bring back bad memories and definitely wouldn't go down well with Celtic supporters.

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Context is everything, as usual.

Previous generations of extreme right wing activity in Glasgow usually involved Catholics and other immigrants getting murdered. The infamous Billy Boys fascist gang from Bridgeton used to slit throats for fun and are commemerated in song heard in Ibrox and Tanndeice still.

Very recently a young Celtic fan had his throt slit bya chap called Campbell, who joined the UDA in prison and had links to all sorts of extreme right wing groups.

In an environment like that, the local Irish population are far less likely to shrug their shoulders and leave them agitiate, as they know where it ends up. To compare them to socialist / commie tables in Dublin is to SPECTACULARLY miss the point.

The far right know the risks in that part of Glasgow, and boo hoo when they get turned over.

The 4th pic down clearly shows this happened in Buchanan Street, slap bang in the middle of the city centre shopping district.
Not defending the BNP or the attack, just pointing out it didn't happen in the east end, where having a flag nicked would've been the least of their worries.

Zambia

We either want or do not want free speech.

If its not illegal no-one has the right to interfere with them. Sad but thats the price you pay.

OhNoYouDidn't

Het-Field wrote: »

Context my arse. You are citing a group, led by a particularly nasty individual which had it's hayday in the 1930s to justify this act of thuggary intimidation, and de-facto fascism.

No, the Irish and other immigrant groups in Glasgow deal with the manifestation of far right activity every day, and its knife wielding thugs that routienly murder minorities.

The BNP get turned over everywhere, this time someone caught it on camera.

Het-Field wrote: »

In fact, a better form of context is the final photograph, which indicates that the act was committted by a ragbag of lefty, anti-free speech students, who may not even be native to Glasgow. I would also have you point out that under Irish law they would be culpable for several criminal acts.

And they committed several criminial acts in Scotland too. But thats not the point. Fascism in Glasgow exists in a real and violent form, I won't lose sleep over a few slaps going their way. The BNP are a street movement, thats the reality of the Glasgow streets.

OhNoYouDidn't

Zambia232 wrote: »

We either want or do not want free speech.

If its not illegal no-one has the right to interfere with them. Sad but thats the price you pay.

I don't think anyone is disputing the BNP's right to free speech.

Just some of us aren't exactly upset when they reap what they sow...

nacho libre

the best thing to do is to ignore them and let them get on with preaching their nonsense. i think depriving far right groups of free speech is the wrong approach. just look at the way Irving was allowed to give his views on the late late show. he was given a platform to air his views, which were then comprehensively debunked by the other guest on the show. had he being censored by RTE you'be given him more publicity and he'd become a martyr for those, who if they had their way, could well deprive everyone they disagreed with of free speech.

OhNoYouDidn't

nacho libre wrote: »

the best thing to do is to ignore them and let them get on with preaching their nonsense. i think depriving far right groups of free speech is the wrong approach. just look at the way Irving was allowed to give his views on the late late show. he was given a platform to air his views, which were then comprehensively debunked by the other guest on the show. had he being censored by RTE you'be given him more publicity and he'd become a martyr for those, who if they had their way, could well deprive everyone they disagreed with of free speech.

But 'ignoring' fascists in Glasgow tends to result in deaths. Standing up to them tends to whittle their numbers.

This isn't some academic discourse about free speech, its a real and persistant problem as the far right have plenty of willing and able footsoldiers in the city. For right or wrong, there are people in Glasgow not willing to take the risk so Irish people can talk in tangents about freedom for fascists.

flas

also in glasgow there is a large enough anti-fascist movement, related to the celtic football club, the green brigade. these are non-secterian group who are very political in all they do, should look them up and have a look at their political views. very political antifa group who would easily get groups of 100's for games and meetings and fundraisers for their group, mush in the same light as european antifa anti-fascist groups. i would have no doubt that it was more than likely one of their groups members to do this. glasgow is a very hostile and political city, people have long memories up there.

nacho libre

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

But 'ignoring' fascists in Glasgow tends to result in deaths. Standing up to them tends to whittle their numbers.

This isn't some academic discourse about free speech, its a real and persistant problem as the far right have plenty of willing and able footsoldiers in the city. For right or wrong, there are people in Glasgow not willing to take the risk so Irish people can talk in tangents about freedom for fascists.

if they are inciting and engaging in violence then that is for the police to deal with. fighting fire with fire- depriving those you are implacably opposed to of free speech is - just an effective propaganda tool for them, whereby they can then turnaround and say their rights are being trampled on. if we truly value a democratic society, then no matter how loathsome you find the view of others to be, they should be given their say.

Het-Field

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

No, the Irish and other immigrant groups in Glasgow deal with the manifestation of far right activity every day, and its knife wielding thugs that routienly murder minorities.

The BNP get turned over everywhere, this time someone caught it on camera.



And they committed several criminial acts in Scotland too. But thats not the point. Fascism in Glasgow exists in a real and violent form, I won't lose sleep over a few slaps going their way. The BNP are a street movement, thats the reality of the Glasgow streets.

For a man who often cries "strawman" and "irrelevance", I am quite suprised by your post. You know well that I am talking about this SINGLE act in the context of a wider attempt by the extreme left to remove the right of political activists to express themselves. Let me be honest, I dislike the BNP with every fibre of my being. Having read virtually every book, and pamphlet regarding the organisation, including the 550 Page manifesto of John Tyndall (the movement's founder) entitled "The Eleventh Hour", I can say that for certain. The language used when discussing Gay pride, Females, and Pop Culture is deplorable in it's regressiveness. I am also aware of Tyndall's Nazi past with Chesterton and Jordan. The same applies to Nick Griffin, who attended many NF/BNP marches, which descended into violence.

However, I equally reject the actions of the left in this case. It was the LEFT which purportrated this attack, not the average citizen's of Glasgow. I suggest you look at the fourth photograph, and

What these brainless thugs have done is
1. Given Creedence to the age-old argument by John Tyndall that the Left are the aggressors when it comes to civil disobedience involving the BNP. I know that the BNP have had a myriad of criminals, and dangerous men in their ranks, however, the public disturbance, and criminal acts in this case were caused by the left. If the idiots who committed this attack wanted to offer the chance to the BNP to make martyrs of themselves, then mission accomplished.

2.Deprived intellegent people the chance to engage in debate with these people and rebut their arguments, using emperical evidence. Look at the BNP's economic doctrine of "economic nationalism", which is more akin to the economics of the SWP then the Tory Party. It is easily rebuttable. Street political discussion often attracts the ears of interested listeners, who may not be aware of certain elements of policy. However, such debate may prove the difference between somebody voting BNP, and somebody making an educated decision NOT to vote BNP.

3.Ensured that what THEY believed to be acceptable in terms of free speech was enforced on the public.

4.Committed several criminal acts, which I would be interested to know whether they will be prosecuted for.

You also make some very strage statements like "The BNP Get turned over everywhere". It is regrettable, and Im disappointed that Briton's would see fit vote this way, however, the BNP have become an electoral force, albeit in a very small way. If you cast your mind back to the last election, Griffin was actually seen as a contender in the Barking Consitutency. Although the BNP didnt win any seats, they managed to increase their vote share by 1.0% from 2005. Under a list system, the BNP have managed to gain an electoral foothold at a European Level. Thus, I dont believe that the "BNP get turned over everywhere", and if they are, I believe it would be a calculated attempt by the extreme left, rather then the average citizen, who will choose to debate with them, or simply ignore them.

Again, I am aware that the BNP have commited criminal attacks, and criminal damage. While you try to dismiss it as beside the point, you still feel a need to mention that.

OhNoYouDidn't

nacho libre wrote: »

if they are inciting and engaging in violence then that is for the police to deal with. fighting fire with fire- depriving those you are implacably opposed to of free speech is - just an effective propaganda tool for them, whereby they can then turnaround and say their rights are being trampled on. if we truly value a democratic society, then no matter how loathsome you find the view of others to be, they should be given their say.

Again, your right to pontificate on free speech comes a very distant second for the Glasgow persons right not to get stabbed for being a minority. What you say is all very well and good, BUT THESE GUYS KILL.

The logic of the anti-fascists here is that if kids or hangers on are being attracted to the extreme right, a sore jaw will make them think twice or at least question why their activity causes such resentment, and a huge number of them walk away at that point. Is it intimidatory and anti-democratic? Yes. But we are talking about facists here. That might offend the sensibilities of Irish people, but thats the reality of the real world.

KrazeeEyezKilla

Ideally this wouldn't be happening but the BNP know that their views are going to cause anger, especially in a place like Glasgow with it's history. While these kind of attacks aren't right they are understandable. The BNP isn't a normal political party and some of the methods they use mean that the freedom of speech argument dosen't apply to them the same way as it would for the Tories or SWP.

Fratton Fred

The fact this is in Glasgow is pretty irrelevant tbh. I have seen BNP stands and their ancestors, the NF, get overturned in Maidenhead, which is the heart of Tory England.

The best way i saw these guys delt with was by a group of traditional sikhs, about 12 of them, complete with turbans, tied up beards the works (and looking every bit the Sikh "warrior"), just went and stood in front of the stall, effectively blocking it from view.

The twats on the stand tried to explain they had a right to be there, which received the reply, so do we.

In theory, yes, whilst i don't like what these guys say, I defend their right to sy it, as long as they are happy for me to publicly laugh at their stupid politics.

Zambia

KrazeeEyezKilla wrote: »

The BNP isn't a normal political party and some of the methods they use mean that the freedom of speech argument dosen't apply to them the same way as it would for the Tories or SWP.

Yes but this is not a illegal method. If you deny these people a legal voice you leave them only one option an illegal violent one.

mayordenis

Fratton Fred wrote: »

In theory, yes, whilst i don't like what these guys say, I defend their right to sy it, as long as they are happy for me to publicly laugh at their stupid politics.

So you would defend a person's "right" to incite hatred?

Fratton Fred

mayordenis wrote: »

So you would defend a person's "right" to incite hatred?

No, because that is threatening and abusive behavior. I do believe that there is a line that should not be crossed, similar to here, attacking the issue, not the individual and racial hatred is directed ultimately at an individual.

If someone says "All Foreign people should be sent back to where they came from, because the country is full and cannot support them", then whilst that is something i would disagree with strongly, I respect their right to say it. If they say that "All foreign people should be sent home because they are [insert racist bollox here]" then that is abusive and crosses the line.

KeithAFC

caseyann wrote: »

Ok fair enough BNP are racists in the technical term,But bring our troops home and stop the afghan war is that racist?

Celtic fans hate the British Army. Thank christ for Rangers to stand up for our traditions.

Shea O'Meara

KeithAFC wrote: »

Celtic fans hate the British Army. Thank christ for Rangers to stand up for our traditions.

Go read a book.

KeithAFC

Shea O'Meara wrote: »

Go read a book.

Read a book about what? That Celtic fans hate the British Army? Well perhaps i should say majority. You are right.

Zambia

mayordenis wrote: »

So you would defend a person's "right" to incite hatred?

This is a bollean concept either what they are doing is legal or illegal. was their display legal yes or no?

Broxi_Bear_Eire

Jeez I have read some nonsense on here but this takes the biscuit
First I despise the BNP and all they stand for but they have a right under a democracy to hand out leaflets etc if they wish and the last time I looked Britain was a democratic country.
Then we have the big bad Rangers fans brought into it lol I am a Rangers fan and all this nonsense about the Irish being picked on is nonsense Glasgow is nothing like the North of this country folks people actually do mix and socialize together.
I go out with people when I am over and not once has anyone been bothered what my religion is or the fact I live in the R.O.I.
Yes there has been sectarian trouble or trouble hiding under that banner most of it started by thugs and idiots on both sides or even none.
Tell you what I don't like wearing my Rangers colours over in Glasgow unless I am going to a game and many on both sides of the FOOTBALL divide feel the same.

Glasgow is like any other Major city in the world it has its share of headcases and it has many ordinary decent folk

murphaph

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

thats the reality of the Glasgow streets.

Just like the spaced out junkie sitting on his @rse in the first pic....classic Glasgow!

Het-Field

mayordenis wrote: »

So you would defend a person's "right" to incite hatred?

I dont understand. If the leaflets which the stand was offering were about the removal of Troops from Afghanistan then there is no incitement to hatred. If the group is advocating the closure of boarders to immigrants, then there is no incitement to hatred.

nacho libre

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Again, your right to pontificate on free speech comes a very distant second for the Glasgow persons right not to get stabbed for being a minority. What you say is all very well and good, BUT THESE GUYS KILL.

The logic of the anti-fascists here is that if kids or hangers on are being attracted to the extreme right, a sore jaw will make them think twice or at least question why their activity causes such resentment, and a huge number of them walk away at that point. Is it intimidatory and anti-democratic? Yes. But we are talking about facists here. That might offend the sensibilities of Irish people, but thats the reality of the real world.

the people on the stand were doing nothing illegal. in a civilised society we allow people free speech and do not use violence against them no matter how objectionable their views maybe.
you're, as i said previously, just playing in their hands by attacking them and they risk becoming martyrs, as they complain about their right to free speech being denied. it's better to let them speak. set up a rival stand and refute their nonsense with facts, that expose their twaddle for what it is to the passing public, rather than giving them free publicity by attacking them, where someone like Griffin can then come along with a smirk on his face and give an interview to sky about the harassment of the BNP by the extreme left.

Jonah42

KeithAFC wrote: »

Celtic fans hate the British Army. Thank christ for Rangers to stand up for our traditions.

I know Cetlic fans in the BA. They've done more for the United Kingdom than your sorry ass ever will.

Fratton Fred

Jonah42 wrote: »

I know Cetlic fans in the BA. They've done more for the United Kingdom than your sorry ass ever will.

They must have been disgusted as the rest of the UK then when a sections of their fans disgraced themselves and booed the minuted silence on remembered day last year.

KeithAFC

Jonah42 wrote: »

I know Cetlic fans in the BA. They've done more for the United Kingdom than your sorry ass ever will.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BzHSr2-QFlo

Jonah42

You think these lads would ever abuse the memories of their dead mates?

Your can't allow minorities to influence your opinion of organisations and societies as a whole.

KeithAFC

Jonah42 wrote: »

You think these lads would ever abuse the memories of their dead mates?

Your can't allow minorities to influence your opinion of organisations and societies as a whole.

Seeing as the ones in the video are scum, they would most likely not understand what a minutes silence is.

Broxi_Bear_Eire

Really can't believe that this has turned into a Rangers v Celtic thing some people really need to have a hard look at themselves

Glassheart

Fratton Fred wrote: »

They must have been disgusted as the rest of the UK then when a sections of their fans disgraced themselves and booed the minuted silence on remembered day last year.

There are enough idiots to go around.Skip to 5:00...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O1wwfbsx-yw

jill_valentine

Fratton Fred wrote: »

The best way i saw these guys delt with was by a group of traditional sikhs, about 12 of them, complete with turbans, tied up beards the works (and looking every bit the Sikh "warrior"), just went and stood in front of the stall, effectively blocking it from view.

The twats on the stand tried to explain they had a right to be there, which received the reply, so do we.

Outstanding stuff. Fantastic.

I think that's the best way to deal with them. Show them up for the bad joke they are.

imitation

I'm no fan of the BNP, but free speech works both ways..

I also wonder about the legal side of this post, considering its evidence of a crime of sorts.