Looking for clarity....

Tevez101

Right this is an issue that has been bugging me for quite some time.

Most fitness experts that heavily recommend a good solid weights program to burn fat off. Alot of these experts also say dont take any notice of the scales as it will go down quite slow or stay the same for quite some time because of muscle gain. But you are still losing fat if you stick to their plan and this should become obvious through a drop in waist size, being able to fit into clothes better etc. right?

But my understanding of it is, you need a surplus of calories to gain muscle, and a defecit of calories to burn fat. So what is the science behind the theories of these fitness experts and personal trainers?

El Horseboxo

While a heavy weight session burns calories you should still be doing cardio on non weight days if losing weight and burning fat is your goal. Just doing heavy weights 3-4 days a week is not enough. Initially when you start a weight loss program and diet you should lose weight rapidly as your body gets rid of excess water. Then you slow down and while you may not notice it on the scales. You are still in the process of losing weight once you keep up the program and eat right.

You are correct in your understanding. But it's almost scientifically impossible to do both at once. You are either trying to put on weight or trying to lose weight. Very few people can manage to increase muscle mass and burn fat simulataneously. If you are trying to increase muscle i find what works for me is to eat a surplus of clean calories and do light cardio for about 30 minutes 3 times a week. It keeps excess fat off and i increase muscle mass. If i wanted to burn fat i may tweak my program a bit and i will lower my calories. Mainly lower my intake of carbs and keep them before say 6 or 7 pm. But not cut them completely out as some people do which in my opinion isn't that beneficial to you body. And i will also do maybe 3 45 minutes intense cardio sessions a week.

You need to figure out what your goal is and then base the exercise and diet around that.

Mellor

Its far simpler than that.

Tevez, if you are a novice when it comes to weight lifting, you will be able to, initially, increase muscle mass while still on a deficit, hence a drop in body fat, yet weight is constant or slightly increased.
It's called noob gains and doesn't last

rocky

El Horseboxo wrote: »

While a heavy weight session burns calories you should still be doing cardio on non weight days if losing weight and burning fat is your goal. Just doing heavy weights 3-4 days a week is not enough.

Yes it is enough. I'm currently at 2200cals/day and still losing. I can go to 1700 cals a day comfortably, without hunger issues. If it comes to that and I get to a loss stall , I might consider cardio. Until then, I prefer not eating that extra banana than doing 30 minutes on the X trainer to burn it off.

Hanley

El Horseboxo wrote: »

While a heavy weight session burns calories you should still be doing cardio on non weight days if losing weight and burning fat is your goal. Just doing heavy weights 3-4 days a week is not enough.

Yes. It is.

Hanley

Looking for clarity on boards?! Funny man!!

Tevez101 wrote: »

Right this is an issue that has been bugging me for quite some time.

Most fitness experts that heavily recommend a good solid weights program to burn fat off. Alot of these experts also say dont take any notice of the scales as it will go down quite slow or stay the same for quite some time because of muscle gain. But you are still losing fat if you stick to their plan and this should become obvious through a drop in waist size, being able to fit into clothes better etc. right?

Right.

But my understanding of it is, you need a surplus of calories to gain muscle, and a defecit of calories to burn fat. So what is the science behind the theories of these fitness experts and personal trainers?

You need to clarify what you're talking about.

If you're talking about dropping fat, eat below maintenance kcals. Simples.

Lifting weights will preserve muscle mass, keeping your metabolism elevated and allowing you to burn more fat.

Lifting weights will keep your basal metabolic rate elevated for sustained periods of time over cardio, again leading to a great amount of kcals used and fat burned.

Tevez101

You need to clarify what you're talking about.

If you're talking about dropping fat, eat below maintenance kcals. Simples.

Lifting weights will preserve muscle mass, keeping your metabolism elevated and allowing you to burn more fat.

Lifting weights will keep your basal metabolic rate elevated for sustained periods of time over cardio, again leading to a great amount of kcals used and fat burned.[/QUOTE]


Ok, so Joe is overweight and at 6'' he ways 215 pounds at body fat % of 25.

He wants to lose weight and has been put on a heavy weights program and is on a calorie defecit of 500Kcal a day. Joe wears XL T-shirts.

After 3 weeks, he still ways 215 pounds, but is now able to fit into L T-shirts.

So he must have lost fat, but if he had lost just fat, his weight would have been lower than 215 pounds right? But no, Joe lost fat and gained muscle and gained some muscle mass and this explains while the scales has stayed the same.

Now, what I'm looking for clarity on is, how did Joe gain muscle while he was on a calorie defecit as it is generally accepted in order to gain muscle, you need a surplus of calories.

Hanley

Tevez101 wrote: »

Ok, so Joe is overweight and at 6'' he ways 215 pounds at body fat % of 25.

He wants to lose weight and has been put on a heavy weights program and is on a calorie defecit of 500Kcal a day. Joe wears XL T-shirts.

After 3 weeks, he still ways 215 pounds, but is now able to fit into L T-shirts.

So he must have lost fat, but if he had lost just fat, his weight would have been lower than 215 pounds right? But no, Joe lost fat and gained muscle and gained some muscle mass and this explains while the scales has stayed the same.

Now, what I'm looking for clarity on is, how did Joe gain muscle while he was on a calorie defecit as it is generally accepted in order to gain muscle, you need a surplus of calories.

I was driving my car down the road at 88mph and ended up back in 1955. How did that happen!??!

My point is, you can make up any hypothetical situation that you want, but it doens't mean it can ACTUALLY happen. So essentially I'd be responding to a theory that may be completely impossible.

If he's brand new to training, all traditional rules go out the window anyway.

G86

Tevez101 wrote: »

Ok, so Joe is overweight and at 6'' he ways 215 pounds at body fat % of 25.

He wants to lose weight and has been put on a heavy weights program and is on a calorie defecit of 500Kcal a day. Joe wears XL T-shirts.

After 3 weeks, he still ways 215 pounds, but is now able to fit into L T-shirts.

So he must have lost fat, but if he had lost just fat, his weight would have been lower than 215 pounds right? But no, Joe lost fat and gained muscle and gained some muscle mass and this explains while the scales has stayed the same.

Now, what I'm looking for clarity on is, how did Joe gain muscle while he was on a calorie defecit as it is generally accepted in order to gain muscle, you need a surplus of calories.

Joe isn't you.

I took 2 weeks off training, ate more, and lost weight. Someone else may have done that before and gained weight. The point is that everyone is different and the same rules don't always apply.

Yes, you can obsess over ten million theories and debate which is right or wrong; but the best thing you can really do is get your ass to the gym, try a few things out, and see which works for YOU.

brianthebard

Tevez101 wrote: »

So he must have lost fat, but if he had lost just fat, his weight would have been lower than 215 pounds right? But no, Joe lost fat and gained muscle and gained some muscle mass and this explains while the scales has stayed the same.

Now, what I'm looking for clarity on is, how did Joe gain muscle while he was on a calorie defecit as it is generally accepted in order to gain muscle, you need a surplus of calories.

What happens metabolized body fat?

Mellor

Seriously, noob gains
/thread

Banks

Tevez101:Now, what I'm looking for clarity on is, how did Joe gain muscle while he was on a calorie defecit as it is generally accepted in order to gain muscle, you need a surplus of calories

Joe more than likely gained muscle mass because his diet contained enough protein, which in turn caused protein synthesis = muscle gain. Calories as such isn't that important but the quality of the calories is important.

d'Oracle

Banks wrote: »

Tevez101:Now, what I'm looking for clarity on is, how did Joe gain muscle while he was on a calorie defecit as it is generally accepted in order to gain muscle, you need a surplus of calories

Joe more than likely gained muscle mass because his diet contained enough protein, which in turn caused protein synthesis = muscle gain. Calories as such isn't that important but the quality of the calories is important.

Just a little heads up.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=58594061&postcount=2

Banks

Cheers d'Oracle, was really pissing me off not knowing how to quote!!!

Dixie Chick

I read a post on here once about the initial stages of lifint weights where you were able to gain mass but lose fat at the same time, I think it was called a honeymoon period.

Banks

d'Oracle wrote: »

Just a little heads up.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=58594061&postcount=2

just checking if it works!!

El Horseboxo

Hanley wrote: »

Yes. It is.

Has never been for me. Well not enough in the sense of the loss that i wanted.

If i'm consuming x amount of calories a day and i only burn them off through exercise 3 days a week and still consume the same amount of calories for the other 4 days without exercising i am going to put on weight. Not lose it. I need to do my 3 day split and cardio for 2/3 days to keep my bodyfat in check when i'm on a high calorie diet. I used to just do weights until i began cardio mainly due to a heart problem. And the difference has been immense. When i go for a bulk in a short space of time i cut out cardio. But the OP seemed to be talking like he wanted to lose weight. Not put on muscle.

Sure you even have a log where you said you are tired of being fat and are starting cardio and you do weights multiple times a week. Surely the cardio wouldn't be necessary if the weights were enough.

Hanley

El Horseboxo wrote: »

Sure you even have a log where you said you are tired of being fat and are starting cardio and you do weights multiple times a week. Surely the cardio wouldn't be necessary if the weights were enough.

I've done it both ways.

If you said it was more efficient to do it with cardio I woulda agreed. But you didn't.

El Horseboxo

Guess i was just talking from my point of view because i've struggled trying to shift body fat with just the heavy weights. Needed to add the cardio just to stop me putting on fat and then change my diet and intensify the cardio when trying to cut down body fat. Suppose everyones different and i set a very high standard for myself. Only coming back from injury so hopefully i can hit it again.