Cattle mineral bolus

5live

I was looking at trace element boluses at the ploughing match. I am in a low copper/high molybdenum area so i give a copper bolus every year. Now this year my calving figures have slipped and i was thinking of useing a broad spectrum bolus. I found 2 in athy Animax and Agrimin. I was wondering if anyone out there was useing them or had any info on them. One thing i did find out is that copper levels in cattle fall after a wet year. So both have pretty much the same levels of minerals so which to use or any at all. Thanks

theroad

I used Tracesure on the cows & heifers this spring and think it worked well. I'm going to do them again at drying off - they say the bolus lasts for six months so if they're done in December it'll get them through calving and breeding, and I won't need to give them dry cow minerals in the winter. At around a tenner a head it's not exactly cheap but I think it's money well spent.

dar31

COSECURE+i boluses from inform nutrition, have coalated?? minerls in them.
which work better in a low copper/high molybdenum area. two boluses at drying off will do for 6 months till they are back in calf. if you are in a very severe area then they recommend to do twice a year, expensive but better than the alternative.

COPPER: 13.4g, COBALT: 0.5g, SELENIUM: 0.15g, as sodium selenate, IODINE: 1.0g, as calcium iodate.

5live

Thanks guys. Not so sure about using the cheleted minerals. I have seen trial results with no effect but also some with good results. They are fairly pricey

charityboy

theroad wrote: »

I used Tracesure on the cows & heifers this spring and think it worked well. I'm going to do them again at drying off - they say the bolus lasts for six months so if they're done in December it'll get them through calving and breeding, and I won't need to give them dry cow minerals in the winter. At around a tenner a head it's not exactly cheap but I think it's money well spent.

well theroad by giving your animals trace minerals on your cows and heifers you will reap the rewards at calving and breeding but you were incorrectly informed about the non use of dry cow minerals your cows still need large amount of convential minerals , using both trace and convential will give you great results big risk to take by not using bagged or bucket mineral

theroad

charityboy wrote: »

well theroad by giving your animals trace minerals on your cows and heifers you will reap the rewards at calving and breeding but you were incorrectly informed about the non use of dry cow minerals your cows still need large amount of convential minerals , using both trace and convential will give you great results big risk to take by not using bagged or bucket mineral

Yeah, I was wondering about that myself too. This years' calving was a nightmare of held cleanings and sick cows and I don't want to go through that again. They got minerals last winter on top of the silage but they didn't all get enough and one reason for using a bolus is that I can be certain they all will be supplemented. However, I might put up those mineral blocks they can lick in the cubicle house. After this spring, this isn't about saving money, it's about saving my sanity!

I'd be interested to hear any other suggestions/ideas.

dar31

iodine selinium and vit e are the big ones, at calving. you need to make sure that what you give the cows, they are able to make use of it
you are wasting your money on cheap boluses/minerals where there are molybdenum issues on farm.
sometimes it is better to start off with what might be top spec products, and if the work for you, you can work back slowly from there to cheapen it a bit.

LostCovey

5live wrote: »

Thanks guys. Not so sure about using the cheleted minerals. I have seen trial results with no effect but also some with good results. They are fairly pricey

+1

Doesn't make much sense to supplement cattle on good land unless you know they are short of something. Those chelated mixes in molasses run straight through them anyway, although I suppose they will go out with the slurry. Dear too.

LC

Scarlets

The man to ask is Phil Rogers MRCVS. He knows more about minerals in Ireland, and probably all of Europe than anyone I have met.

Take a look at

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZiALJ16glw

Let us know what you think.

S.

pakalasa

Great video. Very informative.
Copper seems to play a big role. I'm going back to injecting copper next year. I stopped because I read somewhere that it can cause embryonic death.

blue5000

Hi 5live,
I am in a similiar situation with high Mo locking up copper. I also have peaty soils on part of the farm (cutaway bog). When cattle are on bog I give them a mineral bucket with chelated copper in it.

I reckon copper boluses don't work where there is high Mo in the forage. Injection is probably better, the one in individual syringes, I think glaxo used to do it. This way it by-passes the rumen and is going straight into the bloodstream. Copper needs to be given about 3 months before putting cows in calf, if you leave it until bulling time it messes up fertility, and as already said embrionic losses can occour, after all it can be toxic. So after calving is a good time to do it.

I've also got problems with iodine and selenium, I used to use ionox boluses for these, now using tracesure bolus at drying off, and a seaweed based mineral 6wks before calving. I might be going overkill, but I've had no retained afterbirths last calving season. Does anyone know if deposel injection for selenium can still be got?

Hi LC how do you know if the chelated minerals pass straight through? Maybe there is a vet on here who can educate us all, after all I'm only a farmer and some of the above stuff could be completely wrong!!

5live

Thanks scarlets. Good link. Only problem is with Dr Phil. I remember him in a meeting in Tralee in 93 or 94 standing up and telling the room that there was no trace element deficiency problem in irish cattle. Then about 6 weeks later teagasc opened a trace element testing lab!!! Not saying there was and connection between that and a number of testing companies starting up at the time:rolleyes:. But in fairness he is the goto guy on this. I think i will go with trace element bolus at drying off and see if calving and fert will improve. I stopped years ago because of cost but last 2 years fertility has been crap and it can only help. Thanks for the feedback guys. And a vets ideas certainly would broaden the discussion

ellewood

blue5000 wrote: »

Hi 5live,
I am in a similiar situation with high Mo locking up copper. I also have peaty soils on part of the farm (cutaway bog). When cattle are on bog I give them a mineral bucket with chelated copper in it.

I reckon copper boluses don't work where there is high Mo in the forage. Injection is probably better, the one in individual syringes, I think glaxo used to do it. This way it by-passes the rumen and is going straight into the bloodstream. Copper needs to be given about 3 months before putting cows in calf, if you leave it until bulling time it messes up fertility, and as already said embrionic losses can occour, after all it can be toxic. So after calving is a good time to do it.

I've also got problems with iodine and selenium, I used to use ionox boluses for these, now using tracesure bolus at drying off, and a seaweed based mineral 6wks before calving. I might be going overkill, but I've had no retained afterbirths last calving season. Does anyone know if deposel injection for selenium can still be got?

Hi LC how do you know if the chelated minerals pass straight through? Maybe there is a vet on here who can educate us all, after all I'm only a farmer and some of the above stuff could be completely wrong!!

hi blue,

how do you find the seaweed minerals ive been using them myself and ive no problems much with calving or fertlity was going to do em with the allsure bolouses this year instead theres a few working them round me and there very pleased with em when i tell em im using seaweed minerals they think ive lost the plot, tks

blue5000

I start calving round paddys day at grass, calves were very lively and got up to suck really fast without any assistance. This was the first yr using the seaweed minerals. I'll definitely be using them again.

ellewood

yea, ive been using it since i started back in 06-07 and ive had no major problems thats the thing tho you dont know if its the seaweed minerals or if id have had no problems any way, especally when i know of no one else using it so its good to hear of someone else using it and getting the results.

theroad

What are seaweed minerals? Who makes them?

ta

blue5000

pm sent to ya

milkprofit

Poster presentation

There are several studies concerning the relationship between copper status and the amount of molybdenum, sulphur in the diet (Phillippo et al. 1987; Bremner et al. 1987; Hurley and Doane,1989; URL="http://www.actavetscand.com/content/44/S1/P80#B3"]3[/URL],[URL="http://www.actavetscand.com/content/44/S1/P80#B1"]1[/URL). These studies attempted to explore how copper deficiency influences the reproductive performance. The purpose of this study was to examine the effect of copper supplementation by means of a slow release soluble glass bolus (Cosecure) on the trace elements status and fertility of dairy cattle.
Seventeen cows were bolused with two Cosecure boluses (Telsol Ltd.) while the remaining fifteen cows were unbolused (Control). The cattle were grazed at pasture, which has been shown to have high level of molybdenum (2.6–3.2 mg/kgDM). Blood samples were taken monthly (for six months) to measure trace element status and detailed records of fertility were also maintained. Herbage samples were obtained throughout the grazing period and analysed for mineral Mo, Fe, S and Cu content by Inductive coupled plasma (ICP) and atomic absorption (AA) after wet digestion with nitric acid MAFF(1986). Trace element status was determined by the methods outlined by URL="http://www.actavetscand.com/content/44/S1/P80#B2"]2[/URL. Statistical analysis of the results was carried out using student T test and analysis of variance (GLM).
The result showed that although in the cows given copper supplementation, the blood copper concentrations increased in comparison to the control groups but all the cows were in the normal range (>12 μmol/l). The blood copper concentrations were lower in both groups at grazing time with marked differences between plasma copper and TCA copper plasma indicating the extent of copper thiomolybdate production. Although the plasma copper, caeruloplasmin and super oxide dismutase activities were higher in treated cows until day 100, and bolused cows had significantly greater plasma copper on day 30 and 60 (p < 0.05, p < 0.01) respectively, there were no significant differences between control and treated groups on the whole. The fertility record of the dairy cows produced results similar to the previous experiments URL="http://www.actavetscand.com/content/44/S1/P80#B3"]3[/URL],[URL="http://www.actavetscand.com/content/44/S1/P80#B1"]1[/URL and showed significant difference between the treated and control groups. The conception rate was improved in the cows treated with Cosecure with there being a significant difference (p < 0.05) in the number of services to conception (1.7 ± 0.2 vs. 2.5 ± 0.3). The calving interval also was significantly shorter in treated cows compared to the controls (371 ± 10 Vs. 407 ± 15).
It can be concluded from this trials that the intakes of molybdenum more than 2.8 mg/kgDM) and sulphur (> 2 g/kgDM) occurring during grazing time affects the animal copper status and reduces copper availability through the production of thiomolybdate in the body. The effect of Cosecure was likely to be due to the slow release of copper to stop thiomolybdate toxicity.
References

blue5000

Thanks for above post.
So even though there were no significant differences in copper levels there there was a significant difference in fertility, have I got this right?
Is chelated copper any advantage?

PMU

theroad wrote: »

I used Tracesure on the cows & heifers this spring and think it worked well. I'm going to do them again at drying off - they say the bolus lasts for six months so if they're done in December it'll get them through calving and breeding, and I won't need to give them dry cow minerals in the winter. At around a tenner a head it's not exactly cheap but I think it's money well spent.

where did u buy theese boluses?

snowman707

PMU wrote: »

where did u buy theese boluses?

they are readily available http://www.animax-vet.com/

http://www.animax-vet.ie/


co -ops
vets

magenta direct

c.a.h.l

etc

Rory Dicker 087-0635950 will answer any queries and know your local stockist

it pays to shop around for prices

BeeDI

I'm a dinasaur, so don't take much notice of me, BUT, I live on one of these high moly areas.

I would not get into the habit of giving any kind of bolus or mineral or copper supplement to any animal, for any reason unless and untill that specific animal clearly shows the symptoms and the need.
If one or two showed such symptoms, I would treat those and let the rest carry on regardless.
The cows go in calf regardless. At least that is what I find.
The Pharma companies, with their sales blurb, and all that scientific nonsence, don't get much from me I have to say.

Now, the high moly doesn't stop at the boundary wall of my farm, and there are plenty other farmers in the area, who do the opposite.

I also skeet around the farm every 5 years or so to give it a dust of lime. Sweetn's the pickings in my opinion. Of course it's a complete no no, according to the experts. They mumble some mumbo jumbo about moly and copper and all the problems I could cause myself by using lime.
All I know, is the animals are much happier in the fields which have got the lime recently:pac:

snowman707

BeeDI wrote: »

I'm a dinasaur, so don't take much notice of me, BUT, I live on one of these high moly areas.

I would not get into the habit of giving any kind of bolus or mineral or copper supplement to any animal, for any reason unless and untill that specific animal clearly shows the symptoms and the need.
If one or two showed such symptoms, I would treat those and let the rest carry on regardless.
The cows go in calf regardless. At least that is what I find.
The Pharma companies, with their sales blurb, and all that scientific nonsence, don't get much from me I have to say.

Now, the high moly doesn't stop at the boundary wall of my farm, and there are plenty other farmers in the area, who do the opposite.

I also skeet around the farm every 5 years or so to give it a dust of lime. Sweetn's the pickings in my opinion. Of course it's a complete no no, according to the experts. They mumble some mumbo jumbo about moly and copper and all the problems I could cause myself by using lime.
All I know, is the animals are much happier in the fields which have got the lime recently:pac:

if it's not broken , don't fix it !

Bifforod

I injected store cattle with copper and a good portion of them have come out in a lump about the size of a golf ball and some slightly bigger. it is over a month now and no sign of the lumps retreating. Will these lumps go down? They are spoiling the look of the cattle. Should I lance the lump?:mad:

Lizard_Moon

Oops. My advice is don't lance the lump. Others may have dealt with this themselves.

This is always a risk with copper injection.
Was it a 100ml bottle? Individual syringes were great but we can't get them at moment.
Hopefully you injected in the neck as the lump will probably be cut out in the factory and it's a lot of lost meat if that lump is in a hindquarter. Safer to never inject anything into the hips of a fattening animal.

Bifforod

Yes the lumps are in the neck and I did use the 100ml bottle. Anyone know how to treat them?:mad:

blue5000

Just leave them alone, it'll dissappear eventually

LostCovey

pakalasa wrote: »

Great video. Very informative.

Informative????

Isn't it a straight advertisement?

LostCovey

LostCovey

Lizard_Moon wrote: »

Hopefully you injected in the neck

.....where it will only interfere with your next TB test

Bifforod

I have had the TB test since the lumps came up and I asked the vet for advice. He said to leave them and see what happens. he was not very imformative. They did not affect the test.

Bifforod

Do you have experiance of this Lizardmoon?

Lizard_Moon

LostCovey wrote: »

.....where it will only interfere with your next TB test

Actually advise people to run cattle the other way down the crush, if possible, and inject the copper on the non tested side as always has lumps. If simple to run them down it then would be better to do all vaccinations like this also. Hopefully any lumps picked up on Day 1 of the test- point them out to your vet as we sometimes miss the lump on the Angus in the dark shed.
In the factory a lot of meat can be cut out with these lumps and the neck is a better place to lose it than the hindquarter!

Lizard_Moon

Bifforod wrote: »

Do you have experiance of this Lizardmoon?

Bifforod
If the lumps are not getting bigger I would leave them alone.

If they are hot, sore and getting bigger there may have be infected. If so I would try bathing them in hot water, or any old wives treatment for bathing abscess in your part of the country. I only lance a lump if 100% sure has white pus in it.

LM

Bifforod

Tks
The lumps are not hot but feel spongy. I'll give them another month.

Anyone else have this problem??

what happen

Bifforod wrote: »

Tks
The lumps are not hot but feel spongy. I'll give them another month.

Anyone else have this problem??

ya the blackleg vaccine left lumps on the necks of some of my cattle. i used new needle and synine.all the lumps went away themselves.i have a cattle crush with head gates both ends so can run cattle down either side.what is lance a lump and how is this done.

Bifforod

Hi What Happens,

To lance the lump would be to slit it open slightly in the hope of releasing any build up of cruption or infection.

Lizard_Moon

Bifforod wrote: »

Hi What Happens,

To lance the lump would be to slit it open slightly in the hope of releasing any build up of cruption or infection.

Before I open a lump I always put some iodine on it, use a clean needle and syringe, stick it in lump and see can I draw out anything. If I get white pus I open it.

:eek: Just be careful what you are opening.

Bifforod

Thanks for the advice lizard moon. I'll leave it a while more and see if the lumps deflate a bit.

dungfly

Thinking of using trace bolus on weaned Holstein-Frisian heifer calves going to grass. All animals are very healthy were given multivitamins regularly. Farm is in a low Selenium area. It being a wet year I am thinking copper would be low. Any recommendation/ advice?