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Dieting and muscle loss

  • 22-09-2010 11:26am
    #1
    Hanley
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 21,981 ✭✭✭✭


    In the short term, how bad is it?!

    This is inspired by something Don MacLaren talked about last night...

    One of his rugby players went thru a preseason fat loss program where he lost 15kg - 10kg of fat and 5kg of muscle. Bad right?

    But before the season had started, he gained back the 5kg of muscle and only added 2kg of fat on top of it. A net loss of 8kg of fat. He was approx. 130kg starting off.

    Anyone who's gone on a fairly severe cut before will know about the anabolic rebound you get immediately after you start to increase kcals again. You can pack on quite a bit of muscle in a very short period of time.

    So, my question is - over the course of a 4-8 week quest to get freaky lean, is some amount of muscle loss acceptable and not to be worried about because you'll regain it back and more once the cut's over?


Comments

  • #2
    Degsy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,397 ✭✭✭✭Degsy


    Hanley wrote: »
    So, my question is - over the course of a 4-8 week quest to get freaky lean, is some amount of muscle loss acceptable and not to be worried about because you'll regain it back and more once the cut's over?

    You cant have much fat to lose at this stage?
    How lean are you looking to get?
    I've given up on ever seeing my abs again!


  • #3
    brianthebard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,165 ✭✭✭✭brianthebard


    What was the rugby player eating and doing to lose that fat and muscle? I would've thought at that starting weight there would be no muscle loss at the very beginning unless they really destroyed him trying to drop his weight.

    You should experience some sort of rebound effect if you get lean enough and if you feed and train with that effect in mind afterwards shouldn't you? If that's the case then I guess long term it works out fine, but I don't see you hitting any bench pb's in the next couple of months either, but you'd probably go and do that to prove me wrong now that I've said it!


  • #4
    Hanley
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 21,981 ✭✭✭✭Hanley


    Degsy wrote: »
    You cant have much fat to lose at this stage?
    How lean are you looking to get?
    I've given up on ever seeing my abs again!

    If I wanna get freaky lean I'll have to go to 88kg or lower I'd say.
    brianthebard wrote: »
    What was the rugby player eating and doing to lose that fat and muscle? I would've thought at that starting weight there would be no muscle loss at the very beginning unless they really destroyed him trying to drop his weight.

    He didn't go into it, but the impression I got from the rest of his talk was that they usually had them doing morning sessions of fasted cardio on just protein, reduced kcals and more intense sessions.

    Keep in mind this was probably done as fast as possible to get him ready for the new seasons.
    You should experience some sort of rebound effect if you get lean enough and if you feed and train with that effect in mind afterwards shouldn't you? If that's the case then I guess long term it works out fine, but I don't see you hitting any bench pb's in the next couple of months either, but you'd probably go and do that to prove me wrong now that I've said it!

    re: The rebound - that's my point. If I make it a mission to gain as muscle as possible thru that period I should see some nice gains. Long term is only really end of the year in this case tho, I'd expect both cycles to be over by then...


  • #5
    Pontificatus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 131 ✭✭Pontificatus


    Hanley wrote: »
    In the short term, how bad is it?!

    This is inspired by something Don MacLaren talked about last night...

    One of his rugby players went thru a preseason fat loss program where he lost 15kg - 10kg of fat and 5kg of muscle. Bad right?

    But before the season had started, he gained back the 5kg of muscle and only added 2kg of fat on top of it. A net loss of 8kg of fat. He was approx. 130kg starting off.

    Anyone who's gone on a fairly severe cut before will know about the anabolic rebound you get immediately after you start to increase kcals again. You can pack on quite a bit of muscle in a very short period of time.

    So, my question is - over the course of a 4-8 week quest to get freaky lean, is some amount of muscle loss acceptable and not to be worried about because you'll regain it back and more once the cut's over?

    Body recomposition. Will spoke about this last time he had a nutritional talk at an IP open day. You should ask him about it on Saturday because he explains it really well.

    What i heard and what he said may be two different things so i wont even try to repeat what he said.


  • #6
    brianthebard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,165 ✭✭✭✭brianthebard


    Hanley wrote: »
    If I wanna get freaky lean I'll have to go to 88kg or lower I'd say.

    He didn't go into it, but the impression I got from the rest of his talk was that they usually had them doing morning sessions of fasted cardio on just protein, reduced kcals and more intense sessions.

    Keep in mind this was probably done as fast as possible to get him ready for the new seasons.
    It sounds like whatever muscle loss happened would have been acceptable, even if it had been more. But he gained soon after so it worked out ok. I think the way you've been training lately means it shouldn't be as extreme, you built up to the cardio over several months so its nothing new, you're used to high volume training, and you have plenty of time to rest for the two weeks.

    re: The rebound - that's my point. If I make it a mission to gain as muscle as possible thru that period I should see some nice gains. Long term is only really end of the year in this case tho, I'd expect both cycles to be over by then...

    You just bummed about the idea of loosing muscle then? You've been at this long enough to make the most of the rebound so you'll definitely end up better off by the end of the year than you were at the start or now so go for it.
    Sounds brown nosing but I'm certain you would make it happen if you put your mind to it.


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  • #7
    Degsy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,397 ✭✭✭✭Degsy


    Hanley wrote: »
    If I wanna get freaky lean I'll have to go to 88kg or lower I'd say.

    .

    I reckon you'll grow tired of being lean soon enough and hit a big bulk cycle after a short while..just a guess ;)


  • #8
    Magic Eight Ball
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,420 ✭✭✭Magic Eight Ball


    Degsy wrote: »
    I reckon you'll grow tired of being lean soon enough and hit a big bulk cycle after a short while..just a guess ;)

    It's very overrated.. trust me.


  • #9
    brianthebard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,165 ✭✭✭✭brianthebard


    Magic Eight Ball wrote: »
    It's very overrated.. trust me.

    I hope you posted that while eating....


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