Issue with dealer in UK - can I get deposit back?

Gimme Stitches

Not sure if this is the correct forum for this if not mods please move.
Situation is I was looking to get a car in England found one on auto trader. It looked immaculate and was advertised as such. Had a look on the dealers website and his other stock looked impressive so I assumed that he was someone who sold good cars. I made the call on Monday last car was available and there was no budging on price and was told it was a prime example. On Wednesday I decided to orgainise a RAC inspection as I wasn't planning on going over. But this check couldn't be carried out until the Friday. Using scare tactics I was told the car might be gone by Friday so I asked about a deposit. I was told I could but it was non refundable (£200). Which I thought was OK and asked should it get through the test I was told "it will fly through".
Friday arrived and the call came from the RAC engineer, basically the car had been crashed this didn't show up in the HPI check. He was unable to road test due to bent track rods, there was an oil leak, the list was endless.
Now I am wondering should I challenge to get the deposit back, as I was told a few porkies. I was told it had 3 owners - check showed it had 5! I asked was it crashed - was told no but it was obvious to the engineer it had been resprayed and had front box damage. I haven't called to the dealer since as I am so angry and want to know where I stand. Has anyone had a similar experience or offer any advice. I was thinking going to the British consumer agency but unsure as to how to do this.
Any help greatly appreciated.

kildare.17hmr

its gonna be a tricky one because you agreed to a non refundable deposit. The fact that the track rod was bent is not a big issue as long as the dealer was willing to replace it before you picked it up and the fact that it didnt show up as a crashed car on a hpi check means it was crashed and someone just paid for the damage to be fixed which in my experience would lead me to believe it was minor damage and quite possably the dealer did not know about it

Gimme Stitches

As you say its a tricky one.
If you saw the RAC engineers report you would not say it was minor damage. He deemed it unroadworthy.....

db

I would say you almost certainly won't be able to get this deposit back. Your only chance is if you paid it with a credit card and can get the credit card company to do a charge back. As Kildare says you agreed that it was non-refundable. It's not like you bought the car and found all these defects - you paid a deposit to hold the car, not conditional on the car passing the RAC check. Just put it down to experience and count yourself lucky that you didn't find all these problems after you bought it.

R.O.R

But, But...the dealers in the UK (where the grass is always greener) are of such a high standard, in comparison to the amateurs in Ireland, that something like this can never happen!

Sorry for the OT rant OP. Hopefully they'll agree to give you the deposit back as a gesture of goodwill, as you've already spent enough on the RAC check.

If they don't, just be thankful that it's only cost you the £200 and the RAC check. If you hadn't gone to those lengths then it could have been a lot worse.

kildare.17hmr

Gimme Stitches wrote: »

As you say its a tricky one.
If you saw the RAC engineers report you would not say it was minor damage. He deemed it unroadworthy.....

stick it up sure it'll do no harm or tell us what it said

Gimme Stitches

Well it was on behalf of she who must be obeyed so colour was the major buying point. She now has a bee in her bonnet about getting the money back. I was thinking along the same lines that there is little chance and were lucky to get away without being landed with a crock! You live you learn. Thanks for the advice guys.

Henry Ford III

I think there's strong grounds for a refund in the circumstances.

p.s. You were unwise to give any deposit. There are literally hundreds of thousands of cars
for sale. Don't yield to pressure selling next time. If they wouldn't hold it till the Friday you should have just walked away.

kildare.17hmr

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Don't yield to pressure selling next time. If they wouldn't hold it till the Friday you should have just walked away.

Dont know about you but ill never hold a car without a deposit, even just for a day

bazz26

I know it's PITA but a non refundable deposit is just that.

To be honest I would be happy to take the hit on the deposit and learn from it for next time not to be presurized into giving a deposit no matter what BS they give you about the car possibly being sold. That and the fact that you didn't get stuck with a piece of sh1te car.

Gimme Stitches

Here you go Kildare. :rolleyes:

General Summary:

The V5c registration document indicates that this vehicle has had 5 recorded keeper/s since
first registration; the last change of keeper was on the 24/08/2009.

The service history available indicated that the last service was carried out on the 23/08/09 at
83285 miles by V P Motors telephone number xxxxxxxxx, please see service book for full details.

As only a short time is left on the MOT certificate; the examiner recommends a full years MOT
be obtained prior to purchase.

The examiner was unable to road test the vehicle due to NSF Track Rod End and NSF Tyre.It
is strongly recommended that the vehicle be comprehensively road tested prior to any
consideration to purchase and or completion of remedial repairs have been completed.

With no documented evidence in support of the engine drive belt having been replaced; you are
strongly advised that the belt should be checked/replaced prior to purchase, as failure of this
component may prove costly to repair.

The engine bay/underside has recently been steam cleaned, which may have masked the
presence of oil leaks at the time of inspection.

Antifreeze strength = -35.

The items listed as "Could not be checked" normally indicate the item was obscured by
covers/shields or other equipment.

The underside of this vehicle is fitted with protective guards, which has restricted the inspection
of the lower parts of the engine and or transmission.

The exhaust has been identified as having limited life because, although there was no leakage,
there is external corrosion present and the inside of the system, which may have significant
deterioration, cannot be inspected.

A number of significant items were identified in the Essential/Desirable sections of this report,
which require rectification. Your attention is also drawn to any comments made in the
comments section.

Essential Summary:

Future reliability of this vehicle would depend on the satisfactory rectification of the essential
repair items listed in this report and you are advised to obtain costs and consider these before
making your decision to purchase the vehicle.

As the braking system's fluid content is prone to water/condensation absorption the examiner
advises that the brake fluid be completely replaced, in accordance with manufacturers
recommendations.

It is advised that the road wheels be removed and a general brake wear and serviceability
inspection be carried out prior to purchase, to ensure all components are within manufacturers
wear limits.

Wear and corrosion to both front brake disc's ,brake pads should be replaced along with new
brake disc's .

The hand brake linkage is over adjusted .

Excessive oil leakage; as noted in this report, will require the affected areas to be cleaned off
and further examined to correctly identify the source of the leaks.The engine undertray will
need to be removed,the engine cleaned and then investigated for the leak/leaks.Rectification of
the oil leak is strongly recommended prior to purchase .

The oil level was found to be on minimum, a top up to the correct level is required .

The OSR Number plate light doesn't work and the NSR one is very dim.

Uneven tyre wear; as indicated in this report, may indicate incorrect geometry which can result
in excessive and rapid tyre wear, therefore a full steering alignment and geometry check is
strongly recommended.This should be carried out only when the NSF Track rod has been
replaced.



Both rear tyres have uneven wear on the inside edge's.

Both front outter driveshaft boots are split and leaking grease,the OSF Flexible brake hose
requires cleaning off.



The engineer noted a high pitched whine from the cambelt area,mainly from cold,this requires
further investigation prior to purchase .



As the air conditioning system operates inefficiently it should be checked by a specialist,
repaired and re-gassed prior to purchase.



The Offside door window operation does not function correctly .



The OSF Suspension leveling sensor is damaged.



Desirable Summary:

Prior to purchase consideration must be given to the collective cost involved, in the rectification
of the desirable items listed in the report and this should be reflected in the purchase price of
the vehicle.

The first aid kit useable date has expired .


Bodywork Summary:

The minor stone chips and scratches, indicated in this report, would benefit from repair, whichwould enhance the cosmetic appearance of the vehicle whilst helping to prevent furtherdeterioration.

All 4 alloy wheels have various areas of scuffing.

The bonnet securing bolts shows signs of movement ,from the respray.

There is a bare patch of metal to the OSR Wing inner lip,some lacquer
is also peeling from around the wheel arch.

Various panels have been repainted,please see defect list.

Impact damage was noted to both front chassis box sections .

There is slight damage to the OSF Sill and sill lip.

There is paint overspray around the plastic trim on the NSF Headlight .

There is overspray around the plastic plugs on both sills.

Dull paintwork to the nearside sill .

R.O.R

Doesn't sound like an absolute death trap (like the Mini in Cork), but sounds like you might have had a lucky escape.

Citroen C5, or something more exotic?

Gimme Stitches

Audi TT

kildare.17hmr

Jasus their just as thorough as the AA over here

R.O.R

Gimme Stitches wrote: »

Audi TT

"The OSF Suspension leveling sensor is damaged." In an Audi TT?

Didn't know a TT would have suspension leveling sensors

kildare.17hmr

R.O.R wrote: »

Doesn't sound like an absolute death trap (like the Mini in Cork), but sounds like you might have had a lucky escape.

Citroen C5, or something more exotic?

agreed, them reports always look far worse because of the way they are written! A customer had a AA check done last yr on a 07 primera and got a 2 page report about a clip missing from the inside of the boot, a tyre that needed replacing, a small dent on the rear wing and break peddel rubber ware!!

Henry Ford III

kildare.17hmr wrote: »

Dont know about you but ill never hold a car without a deposit, even just for a day

How you do things is entirely your own call

I don't sell cars, but if I knew for certain someone was sending an engineer to do an inspection I think that's reason enough to hold it for a few days.

kildare.17hmr

Henry Ford III wrote: »

How you do things is entirely your own call

I don't sell cars, but if I knew for certain someone was sending an engineer to do an inspection I think that's reason enough to hold it for a few days.

and what if someone comes in the mean time and wants to buy the car? you could quite possably loose a sale, unless you have a deposit you dont know for certain and most lads who sell cars here for a livin will agree

Henry Ford III

kildare.17hmr wrote: »

and what if someone comes in the mean time and wants to buy the car? you could quite possably loose a sale, unless you have a deposit you dont know for certain and most lads who sell cars here for a livin will agree

If someone is prepared to commit to spend a few hundred on an inspection that to me at least is enough to hold it at least for a few days. If you (or anyone else) was 100% confident of it's passing it why ask for a non refundable deposit?

But as I said you are free to do what you wish - but in those circumstances not being prepared to hold a car would certainly lose you my business, and many others I'd suggest.

kildare.17hmr

Henry Ford III wrote: »

If someone is prepared to commit to spend a few hundred on an inspection that to me at least is enough to hold it at least for a few days. If you (or anyone else) was 100% confident of it's passing it why ask for a non refundable deposit?

But as I said you are free to do what you wish - but in those circumstances not being prepared to hold a car would certainly lose you my business, and many others I'd suggest.

I think your missing the point though, you wouldnt believe the amount of messers and time wasters that come through garage gates, if i had a euro for every time i heard the words "hold that for me ill be back tomorrow with cash" i wouldnt need to sell cars anymore!!

Henry Ford III

kildare.17hmr wrote: »

I think your missing the point though, you wouldnt believe the amount of messers and time wasters that come through garage gates, if i had a euro for every time i heard the words "hold that for me ill be back tomorrow with cash" i wouldnt need to sell cars anymore!!

Ah that's different though, and I do understand.

If however and for example you got a confirmation off a reputable engineer of an appointment to view, plus a refundable deposit incase the vehicle failed, would you then hold it for a day or two?

kildare.17hmr

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Ah that's different though, and I do understand.

If however and for example you got a confirmation off a reputable engineer of an appointment to view, plus a refundable deposit incase the vehicle failed, would you then hold it for a day or two?

now thats completly differant, yes i would. The reason i take a deposit is because i dont put a spanner to a car(unless it needs something important) untill its sold as i can sell it to the trade if its not moving, once i take a deposit i then service the car so if the perso changes their mind its them thats out of pocket and not me. In your scenario id refund a deposit provided we agreed i wouldnt spend a penny on the car untill after the engineers test

Mr Benevolent

I'd consider the refund and inspection cheap compared to buying that piece of crap. As a general rule, the shinier the car, the worse the damage.

kildare.17hmr

Confab wrote: »

As a general rule, the shinier the car, the worse the damage.

ill just send the car valeter home so will i:rolleyes:

Bigus

Loss of deposit and cost of RAC inspection (how much btw) = Cheap escape;) compared to buying scrap for retail money plus boat plus air fares plus vrt !

mickdw

R.O.R wrote: »

"The OSF Suspension leveling sensor is damaged." In an Audi TT?

Didn't know a TT would have suspension leveling sensors

As far as Im aware, the car wouldnt have any form of suspension self leveling however they are fitted with suspension position sensors for numerous reasons I guess. One reason would be if it has xenon lights - these have to be self leveling and they take this info from suspension position.
Other item that might require suspension height info could be stability program.

It is obvious from that report that the car is a heap of sh1t. Bent front track rod, various panel respray, overspray, sill damage, all suggest a cheap repair & dodgy repair. lucky escape I say.

Gimme Stitches

Bigus wrote: »

Loss of deposit and cost of RAC inspection (how much btw) = Cheap escape;) compared to buying scrap for retail money plus boat plus air fares plus vrt !

Cost of inspection was £199 ~ €243. Had our eye on another TT in Kildare, was waiting for mechanic to give it the once over. Now the car is sold!
This car buying business isnt easy

kildare.17hmr

pain in the arse but alot better than the rip of ireland equvilant with the AA, 350 euro!!!! but in fainess to them AA members do get a 10% discount off that price :rolleyes:

Gimme Stitches

mickdw wrote: »

As far as Im aware, the car wouldnt have any form of suspension self leveling however they are fitted with suspension position sensors for numerous reasons I guess. One reason would be if it has xenon lights - these have to be self leveling and they take this info from suspension position.
Other item that might require suspension height info could be stability program.

It is obvious from that report that the car is a heap of sh1t. Bent front track rod, various panel respray, overspray, sill damage, all suggest a cheap repair & dodgy repair. lucky escape I say.

mick test drove another TT at the weekend. It was a 02 225 model. Anyway it looked spotless. What turned me off was it was cash only and I noticed then when reving the car in 2nd before changing to 3rd I heard a strange scretching noise. Of course the owner put it down to incorrect driving I should have been changing gear quicker.
What would you say is the problem here the gearbox or the turbo?

kildare.17hmr

was it like a screach or a humming noise when you re-engaged the clutch?

daveharnett

kildare.17hmr wrote: »

Dont know about you but ill never hold a car without a deposit, even just for a day

I'd completely understand that. For anybody other than a repeat customer, there's no way I'd expect a dealer to turn down cash for a potential sale the next week.

A refundable deposit (pending inspection) must be tricky too. The inspection isn't pass/fail, so at what level of problem can the customer reasonably expect their deposit back?

Gimme Stitches wrote: »

Of course the owner put it down to incorrect driving I should have been changing gear quicker.

The owner expects him to buy a sports car without revving it?

kildare.17hmr

daveharnett wrote: »

A refundable deposit (pending inspection) must be tricky too. The inspection isn't pass/fail, so at what level of problem can the customer reasonably expect their deposit back?

Thats the thing its not pass or fail and they will always find something wrong be it a missing plastic clip or something more serious. Anytime iv had a customer get a car tested like this iv just agreed to repiar/replace the itims in the report and thats been enough

Henry Ford III

daveharnett wrote: »

...A refundable deposit (pending inspection) must be tricky too. The inspection isn't pass/fail, so at what level of problem can the customer reasonably expect their deposit back?...

The Engineer wouldn't even drive it due to it's faults.

That might suggest it was not hectic

mickdw

I dont know what the noise might be but I do know that it shouldnt be there. Did the owner get surprised by the noise? or did it seem like they didnt want you to spot it?
Are you only considering the 225 model? From reports of people having issues, the 225 appears to be alittle more troublesome than 180.
I had a 180 bhp quattro and it was nothing short of bulletproof. Over 2.5 years, 50k miles and alot of them on bad mayo roads, all it needed was 2 rear shocks and that was at 110k miles at that stage. Very well built, but as with any of the 1.8T engines, oil change every 7 to 8k miles with proper oil is essential.

Gimme Stitches

mickdw wrote: »

I dont know what the noise might be but I do know that it shouldnt be there. Did the owner get surprised by the noise? or did it seem like they didnt want you to spot it?
Are you only considering the 225 model? From reports of people having issues, the 225 appears to be alittle more troublesome than 180.
I had a 180 bhp quattro and it was nothing short of bulletproof. Over 2.5 years, 50k miles and alot of them on bad mayo roads, all it needed was 2 rear shocks and that was at 110k miles at that stage. Very well built, but as with any of the 1.8T engines, oil change every 7 to 8k miles with proper oil is essential.

I think he didnt want me to spot it. When he started giving instructions such as "change now" I have a fair idea he knew about this fault. When we mentioned we would be getting a mechanic to give it a once over before and purchase he wasnt long high tailing it out of there.

Well its for my lady friend so it doesnt really matter if its 225 or 180, it seems colour is more improtant

Just came across a 03 on carzone with 11K on the clock still cant get my head around this. How can I be sure this is genuine?

Drummerboy08

I'm not being smart, but you are in ROI, and your deposit is in the UK. How exactly do you plan on getting it back?

I'd say you may chalk this one down to experience...

Gimme Stitches

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

I'm not being smart, but you are in ROI, and your deposit is in the UK. How exactly do you plan on getting it back?

I'd say you may chalk this one down to experience...

I was planning on using www.cat.ie, which would have cost €350 - flights would have cost €100 and the ferry another €180 taking into account fuel,tolls,eating and time taken it seemed like a good option.

mickdw

Gimme Stitches wrote: »

I think he didnt want me to spot it. When he started giving instructions such as "change now" I have a fair idea he knew about this fault. When we mentioned we would be getting a mechanic to give it a once over before and purchase he wasnt long high tailing it out of there.

Well its for my lady friend so it doesnt really matter if its 225 or 180, it seems colour is more improtant

Just came across a 03 on carzone with 11K on the clock still cant get my head around this. How can I be sure this is genuine?

Paper trail is surely the only way to know. You certainly wont tell the difference between 11k and 60k on those cars by looking at the car condition in most cases.
It should still have regular services regardless of the low mileage. It will also have 2 NCTs carried out with recorded mileages. See if everything adds up. Im sure in that time it would have been in for some minor repairs or recalls also. Again check invoices for mileage. Obviously check around the car for obvious signs of mileage. Worn discs would be a give away. If it only has one owner, its a possibility that its right. more than 1 owner and I would be very suspicious.
If history is not fully intact or has holes etc, assume that there is higher mileage.
Strangely, the pedal rubbers in the TT only seem to last about 30k miles (clutch in particular) so in the case of the TT, these would not indicate high miles.
Edit: I dont see any TT with 11k on clock on carzone

bazz26

Gimme Stitches wrote: »

I was planning on using www.cat.ie, which would have cost €350 - flights would have cost €100 and the ferry another €180 taking into account fuel,tolls,eating and time taken it seemed like a good option.

I think he may have been referring to the deposit as opposed to the car.

bruce wayne

Gimme Stitches wrote: »

Cost of inspection was £199 ~ €243. Had our eye on another TT in Kildare, was waiting for mechanic to give it the once over. Now the car is sold!
This car buying business isnt easy

this should make it easier for you.

http://www.tt-forum.co.uk/forum/viewforum.php?f=41

this is where I bought mine from, used cars from members of the UK TT Forums, generally look after their cars very well and if you search the site for the users history you usually get to see their ownership travels. When I bought mine I was able to look back over what the previous owner had done with the car, re mods, servicing etc. Prices are usually pretty good too.

Bumpstop

Sorry about the, I think lost deposit. But maybe it was a lucky escape.
I have bought many cars over the years, I tend to look at the person or especially over the phone, listen to them, ask them akward questions see how they respond, see what sort of person they sound like.
You can tell more about a car by the person selling it, than examining the car. Well in my experience, and I have bought cars without seeing them. One major rule though, never break it, if you get pressurised, I.E. something like there is another buyer interested. Only a bollix will tell you this sort of thing, run away.

Gimme Stitches

bazz26 wrote: »

I think he may have been referring to the deposit as opposed to the car.

Why do you think such a thing?

mickdw wrote: »

Paper trail is surely the only way to know. You certainly wont tell the difference between 11k and 60k on those cars by looking at the car condition in most cases.
It should still have regular services regardless of the low mileage. It will also have 2 NCTs carried out with recorded mileages. See if everything adds up. Im sure in that time it would have been in for some minor repairs or recalls also. Again check invoices for mileage. Obviously check around the car for obvious signs of mileage. Worn discs would be a give away. If it only has one owner, its a possibility that its right. more than 1 owner and I would be very suspicious.
If history is not fully intact or has holes etc, assume that there is higher mileage.
Strangely, the pedal rubbers in the TT only seem to last about 30k miles (clutch in particular) so in the case of the TT, these would not indicate high miles.
Edit: I dont see any TT with 11k on clock on carzone

Post on carzone has been updated they must have put the price in for the milage . Its has 55K on the clock.

bazz26

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

I'm not being smart, but you are in ROI, and your deposit is in the UK. How exactly do you plan on getting it back?

See above.

Gimme Stitches wrote: »

Why do you think such a thing?

Gimme Stitches

bazz26 wrote: »

See above.

Doh misread initial post. Well I had paid with credit card so would have tried to get credit card refunded.

listenup

just buy the god damn car in ireland see it with your eyes drive it and make up your own mind im glad you got stung for 200 quid .typical thicko attitude in this country thinking your getting better value from england.

kildare.17hmr

listenup wrote: »

just buy the god damn car in ireland see it with your eyes drive it and make up your own mind im glad you got stung for 200 quid .typical thicko attitude in this country thinking your getting better value from england.

strugling car salesman???

listenup

:Pno ..just sick of reading the same idiotic experiences people have buying cars from england ..

bazz26

Give the guy a break and chill out, nobody forced you to read this thread.

-Chris-

listenup wrote: »

:Pno ..just sick of reading the same idiotic experiences people have buying cars from england ..

listenup, you got infracted for your last post. Calling people's experiences idiotic isn't really on.

Please tone it down please or your stay on Motors will be very short.

johnos1984

OP count yourself lucky.

I was in a garage this evening and the mechanic, a friend, had a lovely Golf on its English plates hooked up to a diagnostics computer.It had only arrived in from Britain during the week.

It was only in the country 24 hours when it stopped working.

Diagnosis....a new ECU required and the garage in Britain didn't want to know.

Why it was bought I'll never know, a 6-speed 1.6FSI

There was some other issues which wouldn't inspire confidence either.

OP put it down to experience and move on

listenup

ok sorry budd..should have just givin helpful advice that didnt help i promise to be more helpful with every1 in future