Lack of a degree

kilburn

Hey guys, are you wasting your time applying to the graduate programmes if you dont have a degree ? Im 30 spent 5 years self employed, keeping my own accounts and doing my own VAT, worked in Revenue as a TCO and did IATI.

tenchi-fan

kilburn wrote: »

Hey guys, are you wasting your time applying to the graduate programmes if you dont have a degree ? Im 30 spent 5 years self employed, keeping my own accounts and doing my own VAT, worked in Revenue as a TCO and did IATI.

I don't think a graduate programme is appropriate for someone who isn't a graduate.

I think a degree holder will get a place over someone who doesn't have a degree, a 2.1 degree holder will get a place over a 2.2, and a recent graduate will take precedence over someone who graduated years ago.

You might still get a job as a trainee accountant, just not necessarily a place on a graduate programme.

Do you want to work for a big firm or a smaller practice?

I had a look at a couple of the bigger firms and don't seem to have any entry points for a non graduate.

tenchi-fan

Deleted User wrote: »

Do you want to work for a big firm or a smaller practice?

I had a look at a couple of the bigger firms and don't seem to have any entry points for a non graduate.

I worked in a larger company before.. they employed trainee auditors on the grad programme (ACA contract), whereas they took accounts staff on as "trainee accountants" or "accounts assistants" and let you study ACCA.

Try recruitment agencies.

kilburn

thats the problem they all look for graduates and never offer trainee places. I think its stupid to be honest because some one with business practical experience and maturity is obviously going to be more of an asset. So maybe i should give up on accountancy? Recruitment agencies want experience, its the chicken and egg, cant get experience without a job. Sickening

bazzer86

kilburn wrote: »

thats the problem they all look for graduates and never offer trainee places. I think its stupid to be honest because some one with business practical experience and maturity is obviously going to be more of an asset. So maybe i should give up on accountancy? Recruitment agencies want experience, its the chicken and egg, cant get experience without a job. Sickening

Sorry but I disagree with the above statement.
I know its not the case with every graduate, but the majority of graduate intakes will have accountancy for the leaving cert, studied accounting for 3/4 years in college and possibly 8 months work experience in an accounting firm, which they regard as more of an asset than business practical experience.
People that go to college and work hard for their degree get their rewards through a graduate programme. Im not trying to be smart but given the extremely compeditive nature of the yearly intake, you cant expect to get a place ahead of someone with a degree.

kilburn

Never used the words "expect to get a place ahead of someone with a degree" Just because you dont have a degree, doesnt mean that you would not be more than capable of working in the area

bazzer86

Fair enough, but my point of view is...
Lets say for example a big accountancy firm is recruiting 100 people;

In theory, if they can find 100 suitable canditates with accounting degrees and exemptions from exams, they are going to hire as many of them as possible as it cuts costs (less exams) and they will have a stronger technical knowledge of accounting.

Now I know that doenst happen and I partially agree with what you are saying, as there are graduates who start who have no accounting background, in which case I agree you have a case as you would starting off in the same position as them.

When I did my work experience in one of the big 4 firms, there was a partner in the office who was only 33/34 years old. Had come in straight from leaving cert and worked up to the top. That doesnt happen anymore as you have to have a degree to start (correct me if im wrong)

MrMatisse

Nah there are a lot of partners in the big four who made it at 33/34 and who spent 4+ years in college.

If you advertised a grad scheme without asking for graduates you would get thousands of applicants, a lot of them useless.

kilburn

Just to pint out again that i have IATI, Accounting Technician. With that working in revenue and own business thats what I am basing my viewpoint on. You cant bottle business experience and sell it in a university. Thats what bothers me about these graduate programmes. I agree with your viewpoint also.

censuspro

kilburn wrote: »

Just to pint out again that i have IATI, Accounting Technician. With that working in revenue and own business thats what I am basing my viewpoint on. You cant bottle business experience and sell it in a university. Thats what bothers me about these graduate programmes. I agree with your viewpoint also.

You may have a better chance applying for a trainee tax position with a big 4. With revenue experience I'd say you have a great chance.

rebel.ranter

Sometimes companies like getting graduates over industry experience. It means the new employee is less likely to gave any pre-convieved ideas & they ca train the graduate in the way in which they operate.

Jim2007

kilburn wrote: »

Just to pint out again that i have IATI, Accounting Technician. With that working in revenue and own business thats what I am basing my viewpoint on. You cant bottle business experience and sell it in a university. Thats what bothers me about these graduate programmes. I agree with your viewpoint also.

If you have IATI, Revenue plus business experience, then I'd say you are well past the "graduate stage"! Graduate programs are for people out of college with no experience, you on the other hand have a professional qualification plus experience, so I fail to see why you are even seeking such a basic position

Jim.

kilburn

Easiest way to get the work experience required under the accountancy institutes.
Or maybe I am approaching this all wrong

Jim2007

kilburn wrote: »

Easiest way to get the work experience required under the accountancy institutes.
Or maybe I am approaching this all wrong

Well I really can't see anyone considering you for an entry level position, when you are clearly further up the ladder than that!

I would suggest that you should have a talk with some of the agencies about seeking a part qualified position...

Good luck with that,

Jim.

EveT

hi Kilburn,

I am doing this route, I did year 1 IATI, got a distinction, did CAP1s, got placed highly in top 10. I am doing a training contract through industry, they gave me 4 weeks off last year for study leave. not good pay, on 30k now, started on 20. I am 25, dropped out of my degree in 2006. So there are options out there if you look hard enough....

Good luck with it and if you have any questions id be happy to answer them!

kilburn

Thanks for that info EveT.
Where do industry training contracts get advertised?

EveT

Janey its a while now since i started, 2.5 years. I found it on one of the jobs sites, Im pretty sure it was irishjobs.ie. It could be worth sending a cv around to all the firms listed on the insitutes website with a cover letter explaining your situation, I sent a lot around and got a few calls back. Worst that will happen is they click delete!

kilburn

kilburn wrote: »

Thanks for that info EveT.
Where do industry training contracts get advertised?

Job sites and the likes of gradireland.com - they also do a booklet of people who have grad programs.