solar panel problem

rkisacelticfan

I'm hoping somebody can help me. I've got solar panels which seem to be cooling water as well as heating it, either that or I have a leak. The water heats fine but disappears very quickly - e.g. tonight the water is warm but by morning there wont be enough for 1 shower. Is this a leak or is there some setting on my panel contoller that's wrong?

Its a "Wikora basic" from heatmerchants, installed by a plumber whose lost interest in sorting the problem.

Any help would be great as it very frustrating!

Joey the lips

i will try find out for you but in the mean time why dont you call into heatmerchants. I usually find they are helpfull when you call to counters.

reverenddave

heat merchants import the cheapest shíttiest panels/ cylinders they could find
so it wouldnt surprise me if it's just bad quality insulation

maybe the lask of a non return valve ???


or else there could be air in the system (possibly)

Joey the lips

reverenddave wrote: »

heat merchants import the cheapest shíttiest panels/ cylinders they could find
so it wouldnt surprise me if it's just bad quality insulation

maybe the lask of a non return valve ???


or else there could be air in the system (possibly)

I was thinking non return valve but the circulation pump usually avoids this

reverenddave

Joey the lips wrote: »

I was thinking non return valve but the circulation pump usually avoids this

not necessarily as almost every pump station i've installed the pump would still turn in reverse went it's off, the weight of the glycol would be a factor too

dathi

where the pipework comes out of your cylinder does it drop down minimum of 100mm before it rises to the roof. because if it does not the heat will travel out of your cylinder up the water in the pipework and back to the panel on roof. the non return valve or pumpstation will not stop this happening. because the heat will travel as far as the non return valve, heat it up, and then transfer the heat to the water on the other side of valve, where it can then travel up to the panel on roof

rkisacelticfan

I've tried Heatmerchants a thousand times, a rep is supposed to call out every week for the last 3 months. the guys behind the counter didn't really show much interest/knowledge.

I'm a bit useless when it comes to plumbing so maybe you could help me out:
-Where would the non return valve be? (i'm assuming the hotpress but there's nothing on the pipe as far as I can see)
- Should I upload pics of my system?

I had a look this morning and the pipework doesn't drop from the base of the cylinder, it comes out horizontally, up to the control panel and then up through the ceiling. Would dropping this pipework be an easy job for someone fairly handy (not me obviously!!)

heinbloed

A non-working system is bad. So demand your money back. The consumer has to react against the cowboys in the trade.Since there seems to be an installation fault there is no time-limit cutting into your consumer rights. Demand the system to be operating in a set time, for example 2 weeks. Do this in writing, demand a compensation for the wasted energy. This is basic EU consumer law. It's up to you to react.

The non-return valve would have to be between the point where the heating circuit leaves the thermal storage tank and the collector. But it is still vital to have a downwards bend after the storage tank to avoid thermosyphoning. As dathi has said already. I would go for more than 100mm, a meter or about tank height.

rkisacelticfan

Thanks guys for the suggestions so far. I've attached a picture of my hotpress which may help a little more. Any glaring issues??? If you need more info let me know.

reverenddave

first off the pipes NEED to be insulated as much as possible

the cylinder as i originally said looks to be a cheap Chinese import judging by the insulation

and as dathi says the pipework should also drop down minimum 100mm but if possible drop as far as the bottom of the cylinder

and as heinbloed says demand your money back as its simply a crap quality system

good luck

dathi

there is nothing wrong with a cheep system as long as it is installed properly, this one has clearly has not. no insulation on pipes, pipes do not drop down when exiting cylinder,isolation switch placed behind pipework pressure relief valve not piped to external location or container , holes left in plasterboard where pipes are would guess there is no heat dump i have found from reading the threads here that there is rarely a problem with the solar equipment it is usual a lack of skill by the installer

roy rodgers

The best way to test the system is to plug out the solar panels and see if you still have this problem after a day or two. If you do well its not the panels..
I understand what the other posts are saying and they are right it should be insulated tomake it more efficient, but that the same time hot water will not travel downwards by means of convention currents.

That looks to be a well insulated cylinder about 300 litres, Is there a booster pump on the system anywhere???

rugbylad

The other thing to notice with these systems is that some controllers have a frost control setting that if external temp goes too low then solar pump uses some heat to try and keep external pipes from freezing, so check controller settings.
BUT really WOW this is some installation and someone has put a lot of work into it, just a pity about insulation, pipe across S/W fuse etc.
Rgds, save more energy by using LED lights.

Plombier

Looking at the picture I seems that you have some solid fuel appliance you should check to see if this is being heated by the cylinder, are the cylinder and the solid fuel appliance at the same height?

rkisacelticfan

roy rodgers wrote: »

The best way to test the system is to plug out the solar panels and see if you still have this problem after a day or two. If you do well its not the panels..
I understand what the other posts are saying and they are right it should be insulated tomake it more efficient, but that the same time hot water will not travel downwards by means of convention currents.

That looks to be a well insulated cylinder about 300 litres, Is there a booster pump on the system anywhere???

I'm not sure what a booster pump is so I presume I dont have one!! There is a pump on each circuit i.e. the solar panels have a pump, the central heating has a pump and the stove has a pump.
I understand about the insulation but surely this wouldn't cause a whole tank of water (300l tank) of hot water to vanish??

rkisacelticfan

Plombier wrote: »

Looking at the picture I seems that you have some solid fuel appliance you should check to see if this is being heated by the cylinder, are the cylinder and the solid fuel appliance at the same height?

I've tried this also - by turning off the panels and heating the water by either the stove or the central heating. Both heat the water fine and stays hot enough for a shower for 6/7 hours.

As a matter of interest the stove and the cylinder are on the same level (ground level).

Plombier

When the stove is not lit and the cylinder is hot, touch the boiler in the stove to see if it is warm.

tred

reverenddave wrote: »

heat merchants import the cheapest shíttiest panels/ cylinders they could find
so it wouldnt surprise me if it's just bad quality insulation

maybe the lask of a non return valve ???


or else there could be air in the system (possibly)

??? which heatmerchants you buying off.....I have found nothing but the best of stuff in there. Of course they cater for the lower end firebird panels or the high end thermax...sorry for changing the topic a little but i have to disagree with above.

laugh

listen to your solar station after dark to see if you can hear the pump running?

reverenddave

tred wrote: »

??? which heatmerchants you buying off.....I have found nothing but the best of stuff in there. Of course they cater for the lower end firebird panels or the high end thermax...sorry for changing the topic a little but i have to disagree with above.

i dont buy off them anymore but i have used these ones maybe one or two more for smaller items

( cork, tralee, mallow once, wexford, galway , ballina, cavan )
most of the heatmerchants i've been to have all the same panels

fact of the matter is they should NOT EVER buy or sell shít quality panels or cylinders, because it's dangerous to install something under so much pressure as chances are it will fail especially the chinese shít they have,
and fair enough thermax are an ok quality panel but not worth the price they sell them for,
and for such a big company they have got seriously shít (sometimes non existant) customer services
and dont deserve custom off of anyone

tred

reverenddave wrote: »

i dont buy off them anymore but i have used these ones maybe one or two more for smaller items

( cork, tralee, mallow once, wexford, galway , ballina, cavan )
most of the heatmerchants i've been to have all the same panels

fact of the matter is they should NOT EVER buy or sell shít quality panels or cylinders, because it's dangerous to install something under so much pressure as chances are it will fail especially the chinese shít they have,
and fair enough thermax are an ok quality panel but not worth the price they sell them for,
and for such a big company they have got seriously shít (sometimes non existant) customer services
and dont deserve custom off of anyone

Well to be honest i find them the direct opposite here in Galway. I dont think they ever stocked "chinese crap" as you call it. I queried that before, and most of that stuff was sourced by scumbag plumbers direct via alibaba or the likes, so i was told anyway. Well agree to disagree, but Id hate to see one mans opinion blight a store i find decent to deal with.

SolarHome

It looks like you have a re-circulation from the cylinder back to the back boiler or rads (if the back boiler pump is kicking in). You will know this of the back boiler is heating up on hot days even when is not lit

If the symptoms are not as I have described you may not have non-return valves fitted to your solar loop, or possibly the heat is leaving via the expansion pipe of the cylinder