Irish bond prices

Sticky_Fingers

Note to mods: I realise there is a thread about this in politics but I feel it needs a much wider audience, this could be very important, it is not to cause a panic but to let people know the current situation
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I think people should be keeping an eye on the Irish bond price today and tomorrow. For those of you who haven't been following this basically Barclays Central came out with a report the other day with concerns about the Irish economy and our ability to service our debt. They suggested that we might have to get external help with restructuring our debt (that means IMF/EU bailout). This has made the markets very skittery and as it stands we are being charged 6.53% on our 10 year bonds.This could be very bad news since we are going to try and sell 1.5 billion of our government debt tomorrow and while we have financed 90% of our borrowing for this year and have some cash in the kitty this could be very serious for future government spending.

Please see here for thread on this topic in the politics forum:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056035542

orourkeda

Oliver bond

topper75

Do we have to borrow at all?

Would we be Albania if we just ran the country on tax take?

Is the assumption that we have to borrow parallel with the household assumption that we need to go to the credit union to buy an LCD TV and 4x4?

I'm not easy with the debt mentality. Never have been with the exception of infrastructure for countries or mortgages for households.

Sykk

There's only one bond you should be worried about

James Bond

Biggins

The bond issue this week is very, very important!
Its knife edge at the moment.

thebigbiffo

topper75 wrote: »

Do we have to borrow at all?

Would we be Albania if we just ran the country on tax take?

Is the assumption that we have to borrow parallel with the household assumption that we need to go to the credit union to buy an LCD TV and 4x4?

I'm not easy with the debt mentality. Never have been with the exception of infrastructure for countries or mortgages for households.

what would all those overworked civil servants do if we could only run the country on our tax take?

Micky Dolenz

I'll let this run for a little while to see how it goes.

skyhighflyer

The market price of our bonds is only based on the perception of risk of default, not the actual risk itself. The FT last weekend pointed out that Ireland has taken responsible steps to curb its expenditure and is being, for want of a better metaphor, picked on ruthlessly by the vultures of the financial markets who've already picked over Greece's corpse.

The problem is, once the markets have turned on you it's very difficult to restore confidence and scaremongering threads like this don't help.

It is also playing directly into the hands of investment bankers in London and New York who don't even own the underlying bonds and have taken out 'naked' credit default swaps on Irish debt. These guys stand stand to cash in big time if Ireland defaults.

This might sound a bit conspiracy theorist, but it can and does happen (Goldmans already got fined this year for selling debt obligations to investors and subsequently betting against those same obligations) so it's not too much of a stretch of the imagination to expect that there may be less than savoury reasons for this otherwise unremarkable Barclays memo having received so much media attention :rolleyes:

Keep calm and carry on people

Sticky_Fingers

topper75 wrote: »

Do we have to borrow at all?

Would we be Albania if we just ran the country on tax take?

Is the assumption that we have to borrow parallel with the household assumption that we need to go to the credit union to buy an LCD TV and 4x4?

I'm not easy with the debt mentality. Never have been with the exception of infrastructure for countries or mortgages for households.

Can't afford not to borrow at this moment in time since we need to borrow to pay for our public service and social welfare. Cut the PS, they go on the dole, they can't afford their overpriced mortgages and thats just more toxic debt being mixed up into whats left of the "economy", kiss goodbye to the banks and all services since we will be unable to pay for them. If the IMF/EU bail us out then expect very harsh times ahead, they don't care about public service only the repayment of the money we owe.
People don't realise how serous this is, if things actually go tits up as they look like they might then it could be very nasty for all of us. Higher taxes, crappier services and god knows what else.

I'm not saying this is what is going to happen but this is important matter that we should all be aware of because it could affect us all.

topper75

thebigbiffo wrote: »

what would all those overworked civil servants do if we could only run the country on our tax take?

He he - I didn't want to say that. But yeah!

Whilst I am being frank and drawing enemies - Paying people almost 200E not to work every week whilst we struggle to borrow money to keep the show afloat makes zero sense. Simple arithmetic. Look over and see what you get in the UK. I think it is the first thing any IMF person would look at. The IMF don't have to be elected or re-elected remember.

skyhighflyer

topper75 wrote: »

Do we have to borrow at all?

Would we be Albania if we just ran the country on tax take?

Is the assumption that we have to borrow parallel with the household assumption that we need to go to the credit union to buy an LCD TV and 4x4?

I'm not easy with the debt mentality. Never have been with the exception of infrastructure for countries or mortgages for households.

Yes, we need to borrow. Pretty much every developed company does. At the moment, we need €50 million a day more than we take in tax, so that has to come from somewhere.

curlzy

I don't understand banking stuff or bonds so all I got from this thread is that I should be very very very afraid, and now I am :eek::eek::eek: *curlzy goes and rocks back and forth in the corner*

Micky Dolenz

It's not about being afraid nor is it about scaremongering, It is about being informed about what is happening right now in our country.

topper75

skyhighflyer wrote: »

Yes, we need to borrow. Pretty much every developed company does. At the moment, we need €50 million a day more than we take in tax, so that has to come from somewhere.

It actually doesn't HAVE to come from somewhere. That is the crux of this issue. The markets may not be interested tomorrow.

The only hope at this stage is slashing the daily expenditure (it brings me no joy to say that).

Mrmoe

I think we need to print a few thousand of these posters. One of the greatest threats to our economic stability is hysteria.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keep_Calm_and_Carry_On

TPD

Without knowing precisely what the danger is, would you say it's time for us to crack each other's heads open and feast on the goo inside?

Mr Benevolent

Tomorrow could well be one of the most important days in Irish history.

Sticky_Fingers

curlzy wrote: »

I don't understand banking stuff or bonds so all I got from this thread is that I should be very very very afraid, and now I am :eek::eek::eek: *curlzy goes and rocks back and forth in the corner*

tbh if the worst happens the sky wont fall in, the world will keep turning and the Sun shining, it'll just mean that life will be harder financially for many of us. Some won't even twig that something has happened. Looking at the silver lining in the whole situation it will mean that we can hope to draw a line under this sorry mess and put all our efforts into building up the real economy not pumping all our money into the gapping maw that is the Irish banking industry.

skyhighflyer

curlzy wrote: »

I don't understand banking stuff or bonds so all I got from this thread is that I should be very very very afraid, and now I am :eek::eek::eek: *curlzy goes and rocks back and forth in the corner*

You actually make a good point though. Poeple who are lucky enough not to know about these things envisage a kind of Mad Max / The Road scenario at the prospect of a default on Irish bonds. It doesn't happen like that.

Brazil, Russia and Argentina have defaulted on their bonds in the relatively recent past. The astute amongst you may note that Brazil and Russia form the 'BR' in BRICS, an investment banker acronym for tiger economies. Russia defaulted in 1998 (I think) and then grew solidly over much of the next decade, as did Brazil.

One good thing about the financial markets is that they forget as quick as they attack; and they don't have a sense of morality. If Ireland defaults, it won't become a pariah on the international markets for ever enternal: money will start flowing in again once investors can get a return, just like it always has done. New investors won't have some sort of moral grudge against Ireland for defaulting, if the yield is there in the future they'll take it regardless.

My name is URL

Our future seems to be in the hands of speculators.. not gonna end well

Sticky_Fingers

Mrmoe wrote: »

I think we need to print a few thousand of these posters. One of the greatest threats to our economic stability is hysteria.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keep_Calm_and_Carry_On

True there is nothing we can do about it personally but that does not absolve us of our responsibility to try and understand what is going on. I didn't post this thread to scare the bejesus out of people but to let them know that important events that could affect them may happen shortly.

It is out of our hands now but if things do take a nasty turn it is our duty to know about it and understand exactly why. Also we should all remember it was FF who danced us down this path just so they could give their buddies from the Galway tent a dig out using our and our children's money.

skyhighflyer

The bond issue tomorrow should be fine. We're front-loaded for the entire year and can skip it if conditions get hysterical.

In fact, we can skip it for the next few months if need be. We have €10bn in cash from the 2008 surplus budget that we can use to take a break from the bond markets for a while.

Ireland is also in the happy position of only holding 15% of our debt domestically; there are a lot more than just us who are going to feel the pain if we default. The same Barclays note points out that Irish domestic banks own just €8.5bn of the debt, compared with balance sheets of about €700bn. A default on Irish debt won’t be borne by Irish banks, or by many Irish institutions at all.

My message to the institutional investors who buy our bonds is this: Irish government debt needs you, so step up or step off, fcukers.

Sticky_Fingers

skyhighflyer wrote: »

The bond issue tomorrow should be fine. We're front-loaded for the entire year and can skip it if conditions get hysterical.

We have financed 90% of our debt for this year (if I recall correctly) but when we finally do need to go to the bond markets it could get very hairy for us again. This cost of borrowing is unprecedented for the Irish state and we simply cannot afford it at these rates. The fact that they even reached these levels is not something that can be casually dismissed. The markets smell weakness and something has to be done to reassure them. They are heartless bastards but they call the tune and we need to find a dance they like so the rates will go down and we can afford to borrow again if we want to keep this freakshow on the road. What they want I have no idea but these vultures are circling so the lads in charge better think of something.

Ireland is also in the happy position of only holding 15% of our debt domestically; there are a lot more than just us who are going to feel the pain if we default. The same Barclays note points out that Irish domestic banks own just €8.5bn of the debt, compared with balance sheets of about €700bn. A default on Irish debt won’t be borne by Irish banks, or by many Irish institutions at all

I am not completely up with the financial markets but as far as I know (please correct me if I'm wrong) but isn't that an extremely bad thing since most of that debt is owed to European banks and this will lead to the worst case scenario of contagion were our problems infect the rest of the Eurozone if its not sorted.

Micky Dolenz

Mrmoe wrote: »

I think we need to print a few thousand of these posters. One of the greatest threats to our economic stability is hysteria.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keep_Calm_and_Carry_On

That's brilliant, how can I shrink it for an avatar?

Rented Mule

Mrmoe wrote: »

I think we need to print a few thousand of these posters. One of the greatest threats to our economic stability is hysteria.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keep_Calm_and_Carry_On

Brought to you by the people who brought us 'Peace in our Time'.

skyhighflyer

Sticky_Fingers wrote: »

We have financed 90% of our debt for this year (if I recall correctly) but when we finally do need to go to the bond markets it could get very hairy for us again. This cost of borrowing is unprecedented for the Irish state and we simply cannot afford it at these rates. The fact that they even reached these levels is not something that can be casually dismissed. The markets smell weakness and something has to be done to reassure them. They are heartless bastards but they call the tune and we need to find a dance they like so the rates will go down and we can afford to borrow again if we want to keep this freakshow on the road. What they want I have no idea but these vultures are circling so the lads in charge better think of something.

It's not unprecedented.

But if the prices tomorrow are anything much over the 5.5 percent likely to be charged by the Euro Stability Fund then I agree, the yield isn't sustainable. If we do have to go to that fund, it won't be until early next year. Tomorrow isn't determinative of anything.

As an alternative to the BarCap memo that caused half of Ireland to cack themselves this week (no doubt helped by the 'incisive' and totally non-alarmist financial reporting the Indo and Daily Mail are known for), I present an alternative view from Goldman Sachs:

The embattled Irish government will hit the market on Tuesday with an auction of four and eight year bonds. This might be some test follow the beating of its debt – in spite of ECB interventions – following the latest concerns about the size of the hole in its banking system. While on the road, I was shown two recent research reports on the banks from two competitors, one of which seems to have caused some of the concern; presumably because of its alarmist tone. I am not going to comment on competitors’ research apart from saying that I didn’t see any ground breaking news in either of the two reports, but – as so often before – if you blow hard enough at a simmering flame of concern, that’s what you get. Picking up on the theme, the Irish Independent claimed that the Irish government is close to calling in the EFSF and the IMF, something denied by the IMF.

thebaz

speculators deal in fear - create imagined Armageddon circumstances , stock up on essentials and hide in the bunker - i say **** em - the EU must back us , after all we are implementing the corrective painful economic measures and we were forced to vote for lisbon - so we will get support - the North Koreans havnt hit the nuclear reactor, just a few greedy speculators trying to make a few bob from the FT/Barclay worry about something that may happen - the US could invade China tomorrow ... but unlikely

skyhighflyer

Sticky_Fingers wrote: »

I am not completely up with the financial markets but as far as I know (please correct me if I'm wrong) but isn't that an extremely bad thing since most of that debt is owed to European banks and this will lead to the worst case scenario of contagion were our problems infect the rest of the Eurozone if its not sorted.

Ireland isn't the centre of the world like many of us think it is and isn't likely to bring down the Eurozone on its own. However, it's enough to galvanise the EU into giving us a dig out with cheap German money if we need it

MrMatisse

Confab wrote: »

Tomorrow could well be one of the most important days in Irish history.

What a load of bllox!

You dont hold a bond auction without getting indicative comments from your main buyers on whether or not they will be buying.

You dont just open the phones at half 8 tomorrow and see who shows up.

Bloody scaremongering already posted in politics.

We come to afterhours to get away from this **** , scaremongering by armchair experts.

MrMatisse

My name is URL wrote: »

Our future seems to be in the hands of speculators.. not gonna end well

Our future is in our hands. as it was when people were borrowing 300k for a gaf in a floodplain in westmeath, which of course was the banks fault.

Stupid bloody recklessness got us here by a huge portion of the Irish populace and we can get ourselves out but bloody moaning and worrying wont do it.

skyhighflyer

Really-Stressed wrote: »

What a load of bllox!

You dont hold a bond auction without getting indicative comments from your main buyers on whether or not they will be buying.

You dont just open the phones at half 8 tomorrow and see who shows up.

Bloody scaremongering already posted in politics.

We come to afterhours to get away from this **** , scaremongering by armchair experts.

Agreed. We did a €600m T-Bill auction last month (short dated govvie bonds) and it was oversubscribed by 10:1 for one of the issues. They haven't all just disappeared, and many institutional investors are smacking their lips over a juicy 5 or 6% coupon which is a nice return on what is effectively EU-guaranteed debt. The only question is whether we're willing to pay these lads that much for the privilege when there's an EU slush fund we can tap for cheaper, and they know that.

My name is URL

Really-Stressed wrote: »

Our future is in our hands. as it was when people were borrowing 300k for a gaf in a floodplain in westmeath, which of course was the banks fault.

Stupid bloody recklessness got us here by a huge portion of the Irish populace and we can get ourselves out but bloody moaning and worrying wont do it.

I dunno, much of it has already been taken out of our hands. You're right of course about it being mostly our own fault that we're in this position in the first place, though. There's not many people today living so recklessly, and talk of the utter collapse of the country being spouted by speculators isn't going to make things any easier

squod

(Reuters) - Ireland is due to auction bonds worth up to 1.5 billion euros (1.3 billion pounds) on Tuesday, a day after Moody's cut its credit rating citing mounting bank rescue costs and weak growth prospects.

Am I hearing this correctly. Wasn't I told that the ''banks'' (Anglo) had to be bailed out due to the fall out effect that would happen if bond holders were given the two fingers. If were selling bonds worth a piddling €1.5bn, what are we giving €50bn to Anglo for?

Micky Dolenz

Really-Stressed wrote: »

Bloody scaremongering already posted in politics.

We come to afterhours to get away from this **** , scaremongering by armchair experts.

To be fair, there is little to no scaremongering in this thread. Very informative and positive i would say.

up for anything

Could someone provide an idiot's guide to bonds for me please? I have a sort of idea but really don't have a clue.

Wertz

skyhighflyer wrote: »

The same Barclays note points out that Irish domestic banks own just €8.5bn of the debt, compared with balance sheets of about €700bn. A default on Irish debt won’t be borne by Irish banks, or by many Irish institutions at all.

Balance sheets of about €700,000,000,000.
What comprises a balance sheet: future mortgage/loan repayments and current assets (cash on deposit/property/bonds/gold) or just current assets?
If Irish institutions hold this much in assets then why the need for recapitalisation?
If it includes property(s), then how can a balance sheet be accurate when no-one seems ot know how much a lot of that property is worth?

Budget's going to be some fun this year...

skyhighflyer

up for anything wrote: »

Could someone provide an idiot's guide to bonds for me please? I have a sort of idea but really don't have a clue.

Bonds are IOUs, plain and simple. They are a means by which governments and corporations can borrow money on the international financial markets.

Bonds are normally issued for a fixed time period (also known as the 'tenor' of the bond) and pay a rate of interest. This rate can be fixed (e.g. 5%) or floating (e.g LIBOR plus 2%). The rate of interest is also known as the 'coupon' because in the old days bonds were physical paper and had a number of coupons which you detached on each interest payment date and presented to the issuer (or their agent) and got paid your interest.

So if traders talk about "Ireland's 5% 2030's" we mean Ireland has issued bonds paying a fixed rate of interest at 5% redeemable in 2030. So if you buy a €100,000 bond you'll get €5000 interest a year from the Irish government plus your €100,000 back in 2030.

The bonds are usually bought by investment funds, financial institutions, pension funds and other big players in the international financial markets. The problem at the moment is that worries about Anglo and how much it's going to cost us to fix are causing these institutional investors to get nervous and demand higher interest rates from Ireland for the perceived increased risk in buying and holding its debt.

MrMatisse

up for anything wrote: »

Could someone provide an idiot's guide to bonds for me please? I have a sort of idea but really don't have a clue.

In order to get money the government borrows money from international investors. This loan agreement is called a bond. The interest rate we have to pay on the bond depends on whether or nor the international investors think we will pay the money back. At the moment we are paying 6.5% and Germany is paying about 2%, we are seen as very high risk.

Tomorrow morning the governemnt is going to try to borrow money and sign up to more loan agreements or bonds. People are unsure whether people will lend to us.

My name is URL

up for anything wrote: »

Could someone provide an idiot's guide to bonds for me please? I have a sort of idea but really don't have a clue.

It's pretty much just the sale of debt.. bonds are like an IOU issued by the seller in exchange for money. The people buying them profit from the interest on the debt.. the higher the interest, the bigger the risk and vice versa.. and if it keeps rising the whole idea of Irish bonds will be worthless, which is why the IMF may need to step in and stop things spiraling out of control

Sticky_Fingers

skyhighflyer wrote: »

Ireland isn't the centre of the world like many of us think it is and isn't likely to bring down the Eurozone on its own. However, it's enough to galvanise the EU into giving us a dig out with cheap German money if we need it

We'll be bailed out sharpish because they definitely don't want to see a repeat of the what happened with Greece but Ze Germans are not going to just hand over the readies, there will be strings attached though then again if we don't like the deal we could tell them to stuff it. We'd be fooked but it would probably bring down the Euro so we have a few outs if we need to deal with them.

Really-Stressed wrote: »

What a load of bllox!

.....

Bloody scaremongering already posted in politics.

We come to afterhours to get away from this **** , scaremongering by armchair experts.

This thread wasn't posted to scare people but to let them know something was up. It was posted in AH to inform boardsie's who don't usually go into the politics forum about the situation. No one here can do anything about the situation, its in the hands of the markets. The price of borrowing has been driven up due to speculation and fear mongering, not by me or any other poster on this site but by the moneymen. My inane rambling on this forum won't change that one iota but the situation exists and the exorbitant rates are a reality even if the basis for them is not. I'm not proposing to be an expert of any kind but even I know this is not exactly great news for the country.

If you don't like the thread don't post or look at it, I'm sure there one with lolcats somewhere round here.

MrMatisse

Sticky_Fingers wrote: »

We'll be bailed out sharpish because they definitely don't want to see a repeat of the what happened with Greece but Ze Germans are not going to just hand over the readies, there will be strings attached though then again if we don't like the deal we could tell them to stuff it. We'd be fooked but it would probably bring down the Euro so we have a few outs if we need to deal with them.




This thread wasn't posted to scare people but to let them know something was up. It was posted in AH to inform boardsie's who don't usually go into the politics forum about the situation. No one here can do anything about the situation, its in the hands of the markets. The price of borrowing has been driven up due to speculation and fear mongering, not by me or any other poster on this site but by the moneymen. My inane rambling on this forum won't change that one iota but the situation exists and the exorbitant rates are a reality even if the basis for them is not. I'm not proposing to be an expert of any kind but even I know this is not exactly great news for the country.

If you don't like the thread don't post or look at it, I'm sure there one with lolcats somewhere round here.

No, your idea was, oh good citizen, I feel I must educate the rabble in after hours of the fate which awaits them tomorrow, sort of an economic Mother Theresa.

Posting this hyped up chatter from politics Phd's and the like who havnt a clue and are trying to worry people. If people wanted to read about the Irish economy theyd go there, not here, where the usual fair is worlds greatest fart etc and people escape from the worrys of the world.

I will comment when this sort of misinformation and ****e is posted to a wider audience then politics.

MrMatisse

Can we please get this depressing shi-te out of after hours!!!

skyhighflyer

Really-Stressed wrote: »

Can we please get this depressing shi-te out of after hours!!!

Apt username / post combo

LevelSpirit

Really-Stressed wrote: »

We come to afterhours to get away from this **** , scaremongering by armchair experts.

Quote of the year.
The amount of sh1te I have to listen to from "armchair experts" about bonds, CDFs, Short selling and so on is frightening.
Pulling out the buzzwords and trying to impress everyone.

Most people I talk to dont have a clue about bonds, CDFs, Short selling etc when quizzed on it.

They should go and spread bet for a while. Put their money where the arse they are talking out of is. Then maybe they'll learn something.

And I wont even go into the people on the low tax rate or even zero tax rate complaining that "OUR taxes are being wasted". And "the rich should pay more". Fukcing idiots saying this arent even paying enough tax to keep their own street lights on.

Sticky_Fingers

Really-Stressed wrote: »

No, your idea was, oh good citizen, I feel I must educate the rabble in after hours of the fate which awaits them tomorrow, sort of an economic Mother Theresa.

So you would rather the great unwashed of AH not to know whats going on? How benevolent of you oh wise one. Why I hope they didn't catch the news this evening since it was the second story after Biffo's and Lenny's comedy double act. Why there must be nothing to worry about so, I surprised they didn't fill the slot with some fluff piece about kitty cats dressed like people instead of some boring economist who was talking about needing to reassure the markets and the possible need for more cuts in spending. Silly goose couldn't possibly know what he's talking about now could he because Really-Stressed thinks its all hot air and we shouldn't mention it because we might scare the children.

Posting this hyped up chatter from politics Phd's and the like who havnt a clue and are trying to worry people. If people wanted to read about the Irish economy theyd go there, not here, where the usual fair is worlds greatest fart etc and people escape from the worrys of the world.

I'm sorry I didn't see the mod notice under your name. I am sorry for transgressing into your domain with a topic that I felt might interest people who actually gave a sh!t what was happening in this country and what could possibly end up affecting them in some way.

I will comment when this sort of misinformation and ****e is posted to a wider audience then politics.

What misinformation is that, have I gone and got my numbers wrong again, is 6.5% actually good? Gee I was under the impression that it was kind of bad, thats for clearing that up for me, gee what am I like :rolleyes:


* After Hours enough for you

Merch

topper75 wrote: »

Whilst I am being frank and drawing enemies - Paying people almost 200E not to work every week whilst we struggle to borrow money to keep the show afloat makes zero sense. Simple arithmetic. Look over and see what you get in the UK. I think it is the first thing any IMF person would look at. The IMF don't have to be elected or re-elected remember.

I can say I disagree with you completely, but at least a lot of the recent recipients have contributed to the economy in some way (ie they were recently unemployed) and they are probably using it to stay afloat tthemselves, On the other hand the money we are handing over to certain private institutions that we owe nothing but are bailing out??

I agree, reduce SW but after they drop Anglo first
and in line with SW cuts would have to come serious re org of the public sector, pay and positions
but not while still supporting the banks, I dont think the public would stomach that much, we take a lot of sh*t without doing anything about it (just mutter to ourselves) but that would be too much
Maybe a serious re org of SW, Public pay (starting at the top and work all the way to the bottom) and jobs and ditching support for some banks would help with what the OP is saying?
or maybe Im naive?

skyhighflyer

For anyone who would like to know more about bonds, there's a very informative write-up here:

http://www.investopedia.com/university/bonds/bonds1.asp

btard

The only thing that surprises me is that there are still mugs out there willing to lend us money. I wouldln't risk a penny in this basket case, no matter what interest rate I got.

skyhighflyer

btard wrote: »

The only thing that surprises me is that there are still mugs out there willing to lend us money. I wouldln't risk a penny in this basket case, no matter what interest rate I got.

So do you keep all your money under your mattress?

Investment bankers and their clients are far from mugs, my friend. If they're pumping money in here (and they are), there's a reason. Like, we're paying them 6% on the euro on a low risk investment.

btard

skyhighflyer wrote: »

So do you keep all your money under your mattress?

Investment bankers and their clients are far from mugs, my friend. If they're pumping money in here (and they are), there's a reason. Like, we're paying them 6% on the euro on a low risk investment.

Don't make me laugh.

Wertz

Wertz wrote: »

Balance sheets of about €700,000,000,000.
What comprises a balance sheet: future mortgage/loan repayments and current assets (cash on deposit/property/bonds/gold) or just current assets?
If Irish institutions hold this much in assets then why the need for recapitalisation?
If it includes property(s), then how can a balance sheet be accurate when no-one seems ot know how much a lot of that property is worth?

Budget's going to be some fun this year...

Anyone? Or is this all one way traffic?