Brian Cowen: Writing on the Wall?

_Kaiser_

From Breaking News:

19/09/2010 - 12:32:10
Junior Minister Conor Lenihan says Fianna Fail has been ''very damaged'' by the controversy surrounding the Taoiseach's radio interview last week.

"We are very damaged by this particular controversy," said Lenihan. "People are annoyed and angry at this.

"We know that there’s a serious challenge to our party and to the authority and respect with which people hold the office of Taoiseach.

"I expect both the Taoiseach and his colleagues to address that matter in the weeks ahead."

It comes as pressure mounts on the Taoiseach's leadership after a newspaper poll of his party's backbenchers revealed that Mr Cowen would not survive a heave if a senior Cabinet Minister opposed him.

Sounds to me like Brian Cowen is on the way out in the VERY near future? If junior ministers are coming out with statements like this, the end must surely be near?

Brian Lenihan to replace him?

Sir Oxman

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/lenihan-is-willing-to-accept-leadership-2343668.html?from=dailynews

Simmering, simmering...

_Kaiser_

gambiaman wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/lenihan-is-willing-to-accept-leadership-2343668.html?from=dailynews

Simmering, simmering...

Cheers for the link.. sounds like it's a done deal to be honest..


I'd love to know who they called for the impromptu poll though:

- A majority want the government to be given the chance to fix the mess (even though they've proven time and again over the last year they're incapable and unwilling to do so)

- Lehihan the favorite to succeed Cowen (even though the man looks like he's at death's door lately, and hasn't exactly covered himself in glory either .. despite the RTE "White Knight" puff piece over the last 2 weeks)

- Coveney was "wrong" to tweet (yea, because we should just keep our heads down and not comment on the antics of those who are leading the country off a cliff right? :rolleyes:)

Are the Irish REALLY that stupid and passive??

Poly

No doubt, the Gormless ones will tag along for the pensions too.
The greens would stand by FF now even if they made joseph Fritzel leader. ( or Coughlan!)

andrewdeerpark

Who will replace him:

Brian Lenihan
Has made a mess of the bank bailout (its time to give this man some critism regardless of his health) the blanket government guarantee has been a disaster we were the only country that went down this route and now cannot extract ourselves from the commitment.
Instead each bank should have been dealt with separately as in the UK, US; with anglo & AIB taken over money pumped in BOI and Irish Nationwide closed.
He has made an absolute mess of the banking crisis so he cannot be the next taoiseach.

Micheal Martin
The best option as he has never held the dept of finance office and is not tainted by the current economic downturn. The exact opposite to Brian Cowen and would get my vote.

Dermot Ahern
Not a very likable character however he is also not tainted by the economic mess.

If FF chooses a leader he has to be disconnected from the current economic mess of the previous years as much as possible.

Brian Cowen has nothing to loose now so might as well play the Gordon Brown card, fire me and I will call an election. He has this exclusive power alone and if he threatens his TD's with this option his job is safe as a snap election 2-3 weeks from now with him resigning would finish FF and they know it.

So my advice to you Brian is hold tough you are in the nothing to loose position.

mikemac

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

I'd love to know who they called for the impromptu poll though:

500 random people, says so in the article
I worked in such a place.

It's done randomly and we ask your age and background to get the correct sample.
Not surprisingly, a lot of people take offense. Then you work off the script, the questions in the article are very straightforward and are not "leading questions"

But there is a lot of science that goes into these, it's not the first 500 people who don't hang up on you.
More accurate then the polls we see on boards.ie

I do think it's a touch arrogant to take your viewpoint and then call other people stupid

Slideshowbob

John Gomley just asked on radio 1 that opposition pipe down over next few weeks so we can sell bonds

we are f**ked truely

_Kaiser_

feelingstressed wrote: »

I do think it's a touch arrogant to take your viewpoint and then call other people stupid

Well ok, maybe disheartening is a better term.

It seems that no matter how bad things get in this country, no matter how much money is squandered propping up banks, no matter how many people are laid off, no matter how many stories of corruption and incompetence come to light, the general public will still support a party and government that (I genuinely believe at this point) will be the ruin of the country for decades to come if something drastic isn't done to address these issues.

I wonder if the question "which party do/have you historically supported and voted for?" was asked in the poll?

EDIT: This talk of picking a successor that hasn't been "tainted" by the economic crisis rings hollow too. Sure every member of the current government (and especially the cabinet) is involved and responsible to some degree - we don't live in a dictatorship (at least, not officially!)

The only way to truely have a "new start" is to call a general election and let the people decide.. but then based on polls like this, WOULD anything change, or have we truely learned nothing from the last 2 years, and are we really so cowed as to not demand better from those in government?

Sand

Assuming any of the candidates have any regard for their political futures, why would they want to lead Fianna Fail into a hiding of historic proportions in the next election? Why would they endanger their seats by risking becoming a figurehead for a party, and a style of politics that is now despised? If anything, FF TDs will be saying as much as possible "Wasnt me!". A leader would have to defend his colleagues and his party, risking the wrath of the electorate.

Cowen will stagger on to the next next election. Fianna Fail will get beaten heavily, and then, once Cowen is no more use to anyone - then he will be ditched and one of the candidates will take over, able to draw a line under the past and try to rebuild.

gandalf

Sand wrote: »

Assuming any of the candidates have any regard for their political futures, why would they want to lead Fianna Fail into a hiding of historic proportions in the next election? Why would they endanger their seats by risking becoming a figurehead for a party, and a style of politics that is now despised? If anything, FF TDs will be saying as much as possible "Wasnt me!". A leader would have to defend his colleagues and his party, risking the wrath of the electorate.

Cowen will stagger on to the next next election. Fianna Fail will get beaten heavily, and then, once Cowen is no more use to anyone - then he will be ditched and one of the candidates will take over, able to draw a line under the past and try to rebuild.

That is the sound of the nail being hit on the head.

There is no way that any of the so-called front runners in FF will want to take the reins before a spanking of monumental proportions.

If Cowen does stand down it's going to a case of who didn't step back fast enough that becomes the new leader of Fianna Fail.

mike65

Mary Coughlan is it then, the run on the markets this would cause would mean a GE would have to happen pretty much immediately.

PeterIanStaker

gambiaman wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/lenihan-is-willing-to-accept-leadership-2343668.html?from=dailynews

Simmering, simmering...

Its by Jody Corcoran and its from the Sindo. Probably made up on the spot.

Essexboy

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

From Breaking News:

Sounds to me like Brian Cowen is on the way out in the VERY near future? If junior ministers are coming out with statements like this, the end must surely be near?

Brian Lenihan to replace him?

Old wine in a new bottle.

Biggins

Same crap contents in the pot - it will just be a different spoon stirring it - if it happens.

bmaxi

Slideshowbob wrote: »

John Gomley just asked on radio 1 that opposition pipe down over next few weeks so we can sell bonds

we are f**ked truely

Yep, I blame that Eamon Gilmore fella for turning up frazzled on Morning Ireland or maybe it was that Enda Kenny fella for nursemaiding Anglo Irish.
One thing we can be sure of, it had nothing to do with John Gormley.

thebman

PeterIanStaker wrote: »

Its by Jody Corcoran and its from the Sindo. Probably made up on the spot.

MINISTER for Finance Brian Lenihan is willing to immediately take over from Taoiseach Brian Cowen should he resign after his notorious "hungover" radio interview, the Sunday Independent has reason to believe.

Bang on the money TBH, like Brian Lenihan would admit that at this moment in time. Not a chance IMO so they just made it up.

Reason to believe as good as saying once upon a time

Brussels Sprout

I notice that the Sindo have an editorial on the front page (written by the editor Aengus Fanning) calling for Cowen to go which I thought was pretty interesting until I read on and saw that he wants him replaced by Lenihan and not have Labour and FG come into power.

Anyone else see a parallel with Cowen and NAMA? It's as if the FF apologists are trying to load up all of the toxic waste of the current government and hang it around Cowen's neck.

Callan57

Brussels Sprout wrote: »

I notice that the Sindo have an editorial on the front page (written by the editor Aengus Fanning) calling for Cowen to go which I thought was pretty interesting until I read on and saw that he wants him replaced by Lenihan and not have Labour and FG come into power.

Anyone else see a parallel with Cowen and NAMA? It's as if the FF apologists are trying to load up all of the toxic waste of the current government and hang it around Cowen's neck.

Exactly hang it all on Cowan and then try & sell the all new, whiter than white, reconditioned FF .... and of course the usual fools will line up to support

orourkeda

A leadership heave may result in half the FF parliamentary party losing their seat.

Is two unelected taoisigh during a five year term an acceptable proposition?

Jeboa Safari

Brussels Sprout wrote: »

I notice that the Sindo have an editorial on the front page (written by the editor Aengus Fanning) calling for Cowen to go which I thought was pretty interesting until I read on and saw that he wants him replaced by Lenihan and not have Labour and FG come into power.

The independent have being pushing this for a while now trying to get rid of Cowen in favour of Lenihan. Always seem to be trying to push an agenda, they were saying the formation of a new party made of disgruntled ff and fg supporters along with a few others was imminant a couple of months back. I find it hard to actually read it anymore, they've nearly gone worse than the tabloids with there 'senior figure says this' and 'reason to believe' rubbish they trot out.

Although it does look like Cowens days are numbered this time.

Darsad

Well thankfully it would appear Cowen will be leader no more its a start but not enough to reverse the damage he and Ahern have done !

johnnyskeleton

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

Are the Irish REALLY that stupid and passive??

Yes.

Shea O'Meara

Don't mean to put the frightners on anyone on the lead up to Halloween but....
I was chatting to a person I know yesterday, average joe/josephine.
Never supported FFail, but would nearly vote for Cowen because he seems more honest than Bertie, not as sly. Coveney should have kept the being drunk on the radio quiet as it makes the country look bad.
This went on with me explaining Cowen was Finance minister when Bertie was seeming 'sly' and Cowen was drunk on national radio and reported on by foreign media regardless of Coveney.
But to little or no avail. So Cowen being drunk was the side issue and better than Bertie is good enough.
Have we had it so screwed up and bad for so long a best of the worst is acceptable to voters? I do put a lot of blame on the likes of RTE. People take what the national broadcaster says as 100% fact, facts which can be muddied and skewed.

mike65

Cowen could be well the the Tee-shock that was neither elected to office nor voted out of same by de people. Yes yes I know we don't actually make him the Tee-shock but you know what I mean.

andrewdeerpark

Brussels Sprout wrote: »

I notice that the Sindo have an editorial on the front page (written by the editor Aengus Fanning) calling for Cowen to go which I thought was pretty interesting until I read on and saw that he wants him replaced by Lenihan and not have Labour and FG come into power.

Anyone else see a parallel with Cowen and NAMA? It's as if the FF apologists are trying to load up all of the toxic waste of the current government and hang it around Cowen's neck.

Well said. Really its the banks (fitzpatrick, drumm, goggin, sheehy ) and the developers (dunne, mcnamara, carroll, crosby, barry) who were left loose, ruined the country, treasonous us Irishmen the lot. Our politicians were just asleep at the wheel or niave...

All FF donors ..... we have a complex problem with the blame laying on those not mentioned in the everyday media they are to powerful or to well in with RTE for blame...

andrewdeerpark

PS Commented before Shea O'Meara post (honest) so not the only one to see through the RTE (Joe Duffy) agenda.

ednwireland

orourkeda wrote: »

A leadership heave may result in half the FF parliamentary party losing their seat.

Is two unelected taoisigh during a five year term an acceptable proposition?

we dont elect taosaigh

no one will take the leadership before the next election FF will lose a good few seats (probably), no- one would think the leadership and have to resign after the next election, better to bumble along with cowen then kick him out and claim a wonderful new beginning, as several other posters have stated

touts

Cowen is clearly not up to the job and needs to be replaced immediately. A quick look at his CV shows that this was a promotion way beyond his ability. He was an adequate low ranking minister at best in the Labour and then Transport, Energy and communications jobs. His first big promotion to Health nearly broke him as he clearly couldn't cope with a job he described as "Angloa". He was moved sideways to Foreign affairs where his main achievement was sitting on the UN security council that rubber stamped the invasion of Iraq to eliminate the stockpiles of WMD. Recent analysis of his time in Finance shows a man blinded in the headlights and clearly unable to understand the daily warnings he was getting about the economy. His time as Taoiseach has surpassed the worst expectations of disaster. He is out of his depth and it is time to put the country out of his misery.

Personally I think the country is in such a mess after his time in office that an election now would be destabilising. The way we are going even if an election was called this week it would be at least 4 weeks before polling day and I don't think we have 4 weeks of Cowen leadership left before the country implodes and IMF come in.

So I would prefer to see Martin take over as caretaker Taoiseach, immediately address the nation and the bond markets with a clear message of determination to get us out of this hole. Then allow Lenihan bring in "the budget from hell" and put final figures on the Anglo wind up. Then call an election in Feb/Mar 2011. That sends a message to the markets and the IMF that Ireland is finally getting serious about sorting out our problems and that we have reached the turning point. It means that a new government can devote their time to getting us off the bottom rather than worrying about how or when we are going to hit the bottom.

I think there is a growing realisiation within Fianna Fail that their time is up and right now all the senior ministers can hope for is to go with dignity.

flutered

what this country of our requires most is, a stableising of the bond markets, this means a noose around the necks of both clowen cowen and anglo, how this can be achived quickly is the conundrum that is on the minds of both the ecb and the imf, has many in this country been in argentina while the imf were in control, a program on this would be a public service broadcast.

bernardo mac

I believe Cowen is an honest and intelligent politician but the Party does carry alot of suspect baggage,from Bertie down to such as the Flynn "wan" and John "Fulsome " Moloney.It's a fairly sinking boggy wicket and Brian C. has put his foot in it.

flutered

bernardo mac wrote: »

I believe Cowen is an honest and intelligent politician,
if you loose the day job, you will do well as a comedian.

Mr.Applepie

I'd vote for Calamity Coughlan. We're fecked anyway so we may as well go down laughing (I'm talking as a country).

I heard on the radio last week (I have no backup for this so correct me if I'm wrong) that the interest on all the debt we have accumulated will be approx 8billion a year.

Liam Byrne

Sad day for Ireland, though, based on the fact that you can screw up an economy and vote confidence in con-men and get off scot-free, and then be pulled up over being hung over.

Cowen should have been gone long ago - when the banking enquiry released its findings.

Rubik.

Micheal lowry has just said he would not support another FF nominee as Taoiseach without a General Election.

FF are not about to risk an early election, so I reckon Cowen is safe for the time being.

The Swordsman

Mr.Applepie wrote: »

I'd vote for Calamity Coughlan. We're fecked anyway so we may as well go down laughing (I'm talking as a country).

I heard on the radio last week (I have no backup for this so correct me if I'm wrong) that the interest on all the debt we have accumulated will be approx 8billion a year.

If you want comedy, Mammy O'Rourke is your only man - just listen to her interview on today's Morning Ireland.

the groutch

Mr.Applepie wrote: »

I'd vote for Calamity Coughlan. We're fecked anyway so we may as well go down laughing (I'm talking as a country).
.

one day with her in charge and the entire country would implode

mike65

As an aside has anyone typed Brian Cowen into google images?

who_ru

mike65 wrote: »

As an aside has anyone typed Brian Cowen into google images?

I'd rather not!

PeterIanStaker

who_ru wrote: »

I'd rather not!

yeah imagine if someone walked in on you

"I swear I was looking at porn, why don't you believe me!"

Essexboy

How Biffo is seen in Sligo. A tableau from a local shop window.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/magnuml...7624871143949/

mike65

Page not found, FF were quick!

Poly

Essexboy wrote: »

How Biffo is seen in Sligo. A tableau from a local shop window.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/magnuml...7624871143949/

What was it?

Did Clowen go to the ploughing yet? Or will he avoid it this year