Is it always wrong for a man to hit a woman?

Dave!

Hey folks,

This is something I've been considering recently

The way I see it, there's nothing intrinsic about women that make it wrong or cruel to hit them in a certain context

We can all no doubt accept the idea that (a) people shouldn't hit each other in general, (b) smacking someone around for no reason, or just cos you're in a bad mood or whatever, is out of order, and (c) if someone is coming at you with a knife, anything's fair game

But if say you're a bloke, and some other guy the same size as you gives you a punch for no reason -- I think most people would accept that it's fine to retaliate in kind.

Now in the same situation, if some other bloke hit you, but he is really small and scrawny, and you know you could easily destroy him -- is it okay to to retaliate with a punch?

Same situation again -- only this time it's a woman who hits you. Is it okay to hit back?

To my mind there's nothing special about having a vagina that makes it 'less okay' to hit someone, over just a really weak guy. If we can accept the fact that the average man is in general a good bit stronger than the average woman, then isn't hitting a woman just the same as hitting a weak guy?

It's probably unnecessary, and there are other ways in which the situation could be resolved. i.e. rather than punching the weak dude/woman, you could grab them and sweep the legs from under them, hold them down, easily keep them at a distance, make them look silly, etc. Whereas if it's a bloke who could give you a run for your money, then most of these aren't an option, so you'd probably have to punch them to defend yourself.

So to be clear, and avoid coming across as a chauvinist: in the theoretical situation I described, I would not hit the woman or the weak guy, but would try to get them out of my face through other means.

It's certainly taboo to even suggest that it's okay to hit a woman in certain circumstances, but isn't that just a societial thing with no real logical basis?

Any thoughts?

metrovelvet

Are you asking if its o to hit someone weaker than you in certain contexts?

Rev Hellfire

metrovelvet wrote: »

Are you asking if its o to hit someone weaker than you in certain contexts?

I think they're asking is it appropriate to use use physical force to defend yourself when physically attacked. I'd say yes.

Mary Hairy

Dave! wrote: »

Hey folks,


But if say you're a bloke, and some other guy the same size as you gives you a punch for no reason -- I think most people would accept that it's fine to retaliate in kind.

Now in the same situation, if some other bloke hit you, but he is really small and scrawny, and you know you could easily destroy him -- is it okay to to retaliate with a punch?

?

Retaliation is not the same as self defence. If two individuals want to have a fight it is one thing. If someone is attacked the force used in self defence should be the minimum necessary to protect oneself.

metrovelvet

Rev Hellfire wrote: »

I think they're asking is it appropriate to use use physical force to defend yourself when physically attacked. I'd say yes.

Yes it is.

Retialiation is a different argument. And the whole question is highly contextual.

looksee

Apart from a token smack as a child (given and received) I don't think I have ever hit anyone or been hit. If someone physically attacked me I would defend myself any way I could, including hitting them with something, or run (but at my age I wouldn't get very far :rolleyes:) Otherwise the question is far too circumstantial, as metrovelvet said.

mike65

Daves getting a hard time the Sheilas!

If someone poses a direct threat to you be they a man or woman if hitting them is the only option I don't see the problem. Its a practical matter, rather than an ideological one.

Retalitation is a juvenile response either way.

Dave!

Dave! wrote:

Any thoughts?

When it comes to guys, I'm on the weaker end of the scale (6ft3' and built like a lamp-post], so any male that hits me is fair game to be hit back. Although TBH I don't do punching back. If I hit someone its with the aim of taking them down as quickly as possible, so I tend to go for soft spots.

Regarding women, it depends on the situation and the manner that she attacks me. If I can push her away, or get her friends to intervene then, fine. But if she won't just stop, I'll give her a slap across the face to shock her. If that doesn't still work, I'll step in and treat her the same as a guy.

IF anybody steps over the line and attacks me, then they're fair game to be treated equally. I'm not interested in this pc sexist nonsense. Perhaps for ye guys, you've got muscles, or fat to cushion punches, but I certainly don't.

People say they want equality. Well, its not a pick or choose scenario. You hit me, and I'll damage you if I can. So, its simple. Don't pick a fight with me.

metrovelvet wrote: »

Are you asking if its o to hit someone weaker than you in certain contexts?

I'm physically weaker than most of the Irish women I know...

Herbal Deity

You should never hit anyone.

The idea that you should never hit a woman comes from a more primitive time when a guy hitting another guy was seen as an acceptable way of resolving disputes. "You should never hit a woman" implies that it's acceptable to hit a guy in some contexts.

Herbal Deity

Herbal Deity wrote: »

You should never hit anyone.

The idea that you should never hit a woman comes from a more primitive time when a guy hitting another guy was seen as an acceptable way of resolving disputes. "You should never hit a woman" implies that it's acceptable to hit a guy in some contexts.

Self-Defense?

Herbal Deity

If running is not an option, then maybe.

No problem with hitting a girl in that exceptional context.

But my point was that I don't think the idea that you shouldn't hit a girl originated with the idea that a man might ever have to defend himself against a girl in mind.

Ickle Magoo

I think it's wrong for people to hit each other full stop. If a situation arises where someone needs to be physically restrained or pushed so one can extricate oneself from the situation then I would view that as acceptable force but retaliating to a punch by punching back, no.

Ickle Magoo

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

I think it's wrong for people to hit each other full stop.

A few years back, myself and a friend were beaten to a pulp by 7 guys (complete strangers) in Cork, so believe me, I agree with you.

whatsamsn

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

I think it's wrong for people to hit each other full stop. If a situation arises where someone needs to be physically restrained or pushed so one can extricate oneself from the situation then I would view that as acceptable force but retaliating to a punch by punching back, no.

You cant live in the real world if you think that.

There are some a**holes in the world. People who start fights over nothing, or even for no reason. If you dont hit them back they will continue to hit you. Many a man has gotten beaten up pretty bad, some have even died because they refused to fight back. Its a tough world we live in.

-gilly-09-

If someone hits you and tries to hurt you then fair enough you defend yourself with force when needed. If someone breaks into your house defend your family and your home. But hitting a woman is not right. I know that different situations can arise.

For example what happens if a bunch of women break into your house??

metrovelvet

I dunno. I think that some people are in sado masochistic relationships and lines can get crossed. I don't mean just people who practise BDSM in the bedroom, but other relationships which are sado masochistic that may not get unleashed in the bedroom. [The PC brigade will come and arrest me any minute now.]

If you are talking about self defense then it would depend. I think doing the minimum to defend your or your family's life is absolutely acceptable whether the perpetrator is man, woman or animal.

The way the thread is questioned is highly moralistic and I don't know if it's ALWAYS WRONG for a man to hit a woman in the same way it is ALWAYS wrong to molest a child for example. I know its possible to hit a woman or a man and while it might be wrong, it also does not necessarily mean the person on the receiving end is a victim.

Ickle Magoo

whatsamsn wrote: »

There are some a**holes in the world. People who start fights over nothing, or even for no reason. If you dont hit them back they will continue to hit you. Many a man has gotten beaten up pretty bad, some have even died because they refused to fight back. Its a tough world we live in.

I'm not sure how any of that makes it right to hit people?

metrovelvet

I see women slapping each other all the time on tv. Someone was over watching the Eastenders omnibus and it was the middle of the afternoon and there was a HUGE slap across the face.

My three year old was in the room and I was genuinely shocked and not expecting to see that at that time of the day. Have been meaning to write into complain.

I also saw an English television program for kids where they were play acting British history and had actors mimicking beheadings. Jesus Christ. What is wrong with that country? In fifty years time will they mimic the Islam beheadings on the internet for the children?

We have become so desensitised to violence. I noticed even the 911 coverage recently didnt have a parental warning, which imo it should have.

stovelid

If you're asking me if I would let myself by physically assaulted by somebody because they were female: no, but I can't really think of many real life situations where most men couldn't subdue or escape from a violent woman if needed. And the scenario is an extreme one in fairness and is, as said, not really the reason that it's not on to strike women or other people smaller or weaker than yourself.

I don't think hitting people is right, but unfortunately I can't agree with the view that - in general - reactive violence is always wrong even if I'm not really the fighting sort myself.

Ickle Magoo

metrovelvet wrote: »

I see women slapping each other all the time on tv. Someone was over watching the Eastenders omnibus and it was the middle of the afternoon and there was a HUGE slap across the face.

My three year old was in the room and I was genuinely shocked and not expecting to see that at that time of the day. Have been meaning to write into complain.

I also saw an English television program for kids where they were play acting British history and had actors mimicking beheadings. Jesus Christ. What is wrong with that country? In fifty years time will they mimic the Islam beheadings on the internet for the children?

We have become so desensitised to violence. I noticed even the 911 coverage recently didnt have a parental warning, which imo it should have.

Ah, come on now - eastenders was never a paragon of virtue to hold up for your toddler regardless of the time of day it was on - and I'm assuming the scheduling over here was due to the irish channel that buys it, no?

In school we studied the civil war and the great wars in all their goreyness, I guess there is only so much cotton wool you can use with kids without sanitising the true facts beyond all recognition.

mike65

-gilly-09- wrote: »

For example what happens if a bunch of women break into your house??

Please?

metrovelvet

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

Ah, come on now - eastenders was never a paragon of virtue to hold up for your toddler regardless of the time of day it was on - and I'm assuming the scheduling over here was due to the irish channel that buys it, no?

In school we studied the civil war and the great wars in all their goreyness, I guess there is only so much cotton wool you can use with kids without sanitising the true facts beyond all recognition.

I have no idea. I wasn't really watching it. I just caught a glimpse of that. I had thought that were regulations on daytime programming. Guess not. I never really did watch it so I had no idea what the hell it was.

I don't think they should be having puppet shows of beheadings for primary school kids. I don't think its appropriate material.

Either way, slapping seems to be acceptable in our culture.

Ickle Magoo

I would think the fact it's deemed worthy of a story line in a soap opera would point to the complete opposite, that it is seen as shocking.

stovelid wrote:

I don't think hitting people is right, but unfortunately I can't agree with the view that - in general - reactive violence is always wrong even if I'm not really the fighting sort myself.

I'd probably be closer to agreeing with you than not. A necessary evil in some extreme cases rather than the right thing to do in all.

Herbal Deity

metrovelvet wrote: »

I don't think they should be having puppet shows of beheadings for primary school kids. I don't think its appropriate material.

Why? If it's in an educational context I think it's fine.

I used to read these as a child. They were fantastically gruesome, educational and fun.



(lol off topic)

TitoPuente

whatsamsn wrote: »

There are some a**holes in the world. People who start fights over nothing, or even for no reason. If you dont hit them back they will continue to hit you. Many a man has gotten beaten up pretty bad, some have even died because they refused to fight back. Its a tough world we live in.

Agreed. The type of people who will assault you for no reason are opening themselves up to completely justified relatiation. If they end up horribly injured or dead, then it's the nature of their aggression that has caused it. Not the fault of some unassuming victim just defending himself.

Violence is never right but self-defense when attacked should be every person's implied right. Sadly the courts don't always see it that way.

metrovelvet

Also, now that women are in the military and are soldiers, you cant say its worse to kill a woman soldier than a man soldier. If we kill them in combat....

Now the OP was positing things in relations to size and weakness and that its not really fair if its one stronger than the other. But strong is a fuzzy term. Is it defined by how well you can take a hit? How quick your reflexes are? Can you throw a good left hook?

Anyone who knows how to fight will tell you size doesnt matter. Its knowing how to fight that counts. Im pretty petite and lousy at fighting but Id say Id have a better chance at a 5'11 man who sat at a desk all day than I would with a woman who had knowledge of martial arts.

That is just an educated guess to illustrate a point. I could be wrong but I really dont think so.

treborflynn

If a woman hit me i wouldnt do anything, if she came at me with a gun or a knife i might take er down to chinatown!!! :rolleyes:

If a man hit me i dont care if he is huge or tiny, any time i was hit in my life i just battered them to a pulp. it always took them down a peg or two.

Giselle

There are some women out there who will count on a man not ever hitting a woman, and subject them to sustained abuse comfortable in the knowledge that the man won't retaliate like for like.

If someone hits you and the only way (say, if you're cornered) to get out of the situation is to hit back, then hit back.

If someone hits you and you can subdue or avoid them, then thats the best course of action.

To my mind the rules would be the same whether they were male or female.

metrovelvet

Giselle wrote: »

There are some women out there who will count on a man not ever hitting a woman, and subject them to sustained abuse comfortable in the knowledge that the man won't retaliate like for like.

If someone hits you and the only way (say, if you're cornered) to get out of the situation is to hit back, then hit back.

If someone hits you and you can subdue or avoid them, then thats the best course of action.

To my mind the rules would be the same whether they were male or female.

Its not just women that this happens with. Its kids too. Its the elderly. There are people who use their second citizen weaker status to bully to their hearts content. Then get shocked when someone snaps.

Zillah

Bitch comes at me with a bottle she's going down.

Giselle

metrovelvet wrote: »

Its not just women that this happens with. Its kids too. Its the elderly. There are people who use their second citizen weaker status to bully to their hearts content. Then get shocked when someone snaps.

I've had experience of this with an elderly relative who used their terminal illness to excuse putting everyone who had to care for them through absolute hell. Over years. Physically and emotionally.

To the eyes of the world their circumstances rendered them blameless, though the reality was very different.

Dave147

Women are always on about being treated equally, therefore it would be extremely sexist not to give them a punch back.

There are some nasty women out there and I wouldn't think twice about knocking them out to protect myself or someone close to me.

caseyann

Depends on degree of hit i would say.
As a woman i kicked someone once messing caught him in the neither regions by accident.He went down and he retaliated with a kick to mine.I can honestly say even though i hit him there in first place.If i had of been a guy or stronger i would have kicked ten shades out of him.
Luckily enough my cousin didnt take to kindly to this and did it for me.

If a woman abuses a man and think she can hit in aggression on purpose and gets a box back her own fault imo.Act like a animal get treated like an animal.

Giselle

caseyann wrote: »

Depends on degree of hit i would say.
As a woman i kicked someone once messing caught him in the neither regions by accident.He went down and he retaliated with a kick to mine.I can honestly say even though i hit him there in first place.If i had of been a guy or stronger i would have kicked ten shades out of him.
Luckily enough my cousin didnt take to kindly to this and did it for me.

If a woman abuses a man and think she can hit in aggression on purpose and gets a box back her own fault imo.Act like a animal get treated like an animal.

oh, the ironing.:)

caseyann

Giselle wrote: »

oh, the ironing.:)

Ironing :rolleyes:

Liamario

It's all highly contextual. But on saying that, if a woman behaves like a man, I'll treat them like one. I am not a physically aggressive person, but if a woman or a man appoaches me with the aim of trying to punch me etc..., I'll do what I feel is necessary.
A woman or anyone else can not hit you and not expect some kind of retaliation. If they are brave enough to give a punch, they'd better be willing to receive the same.

Giselle

caseyann wrote: »

Ironing :rolleyes:

Yes. Twice.

Digitaljunkie

Me I would say never if she is your partner if not I still couldn't do I guess it the way I was brought up. Was in an dodgey relationship a few years ago where my then so called girlfriend would hit me sometimes. I would never return the favor its the way I am. It was funny when I broke up with her though, when I told her she said "You don't brake up with me thats for me (Her) to do. Really lucky escape from a nutcase

caseyann

Liamario wrote: »

It's all highly contextual. But on saying that, if a woman behaves like a man, I'll treat them like one. I am not a physically aggressive person, but if a woman or a man appoaches me with the aim of trying to punch me etc..., I'll do what I feel is necessary.
A woman or anyone else can not hit you and not expect some kind of retaliation. If they are brave enough to give a punch, they'd better be willing to receive the same.

Unless not intentional to hurt you and messing,then if you hit them back you are wrong.

caseyann

Digitaljunkie wrote: »

Me I would say never if she is your partner if not I still couldn't do I guess it the way I was brought up. Was in an dodgey relationship a few years ago where my then so called girlfriend would hit me sometimes. I would never return the favor its the way I am. It was funny when I broke up with her though, when I told her she said "You don't brake up with me thats for me (Her) to do. Really lucky escape from a nutcase

Was she violent and threatening?

metrovelvet

Giselle wrote: »

I've had experience of this with an elderly relative who used their terminal illness to excuse putting everyone who had to care for them through absolute hell. Over years. Physically and emotionally.

To the eyes of the world their circumstances rendered them blameless, though the reality was very different.

Uck. That's a Beckett play right there.

Kind of takes the fun out of a euthanasia debate. :pac:

Liamario

caseyann wrote: »

Unless not intentional to hurt you and messing,then if you hit them back you are wrong.

As I said, it would depend on the context of the situation.

Digitaljunkie

caseyann wrote: »

Was she violent and threatening?

Yea she was.

caseyann

Digitaljunkie wrote: »

Yea she was.

Sorry to hear that,and happy you got out of it.:) Women as do men like that make me sick

Denerick

If left with no alternative but to defend oneself, then the use of force is justified against any person, woman or not. In fact it is highly chauvinistic and sexist to suggest that a woman in the middle of assaulting a man should be immune from some kind of retaliation!

Horse_box

caseyann wrote: »

Depends on degree of hit i would say.
As a woman i kicked someone once messing caught him in the neither regions by accident.He went down and he retaliated with a kick to mine.I can honestly say even though i hit him there in first place.If i had of been a guy or stronger i would have kicked ten shades out of him.
Luckily enough my cousin didnt take to kindly to this and did it for me.

If a woman abuses a man and think she can hit in aggression on purpose and gets a box back her own fault imo.Act like a animal get treated like an animal.

hobochris

If a woman tries to hit me, I will overpower and restrain her(try not to hit her) until she calms down.

Like in 'in bruges', if a woman comes at me with a weapon she is fair game.

caseyann

Horse_box wrote: »

Are you trying to say he didnt need a good kicking for what he did to me when intially my kick was by accident?
Well sorry for you,if you engage in violence out of retaliation on anyone especially a woman five times smaller than you who did not intentionaly hurt that person in first place,then yes i was angry and upset and wanted to do it myself, and yes i am happy my cousin thought him a lesson :mad:

Denerick

caseyann wrote: »

Are you trying to say he didnt need a good kicking for what he did to me when intially my kick was by accident?
Well sorry for you,if you engage in violence out of retaliation on anyone especially a woman five times smaller than you,then yes i would have been angry and upset and wanted to do it myself, and yes i am happy my cousin thought him a lesson :mad:

Do something to someone else = possibility they will do something back to you.

caseyann

Denerick wrote: »

Do something to someone else = possibility they will do something back to you.

Ok you lay down and take your beatings,everyone knows some people only understand the kicking they get.And not by a person turning other cheek.He took advantage of situation kicked me right hard left me lying on the ground even though i was apologizing.You think he didnt deserve a beating.I do and wont agree with you.

Denerick

caseyann wrote: »

Ok you lay down and take your beatings,everyone knows some people only understand the kicking they get.And not by a person turning other cheek.He took advantage of situation kicked me right hard left me lying on the ground even though i was apologizing.You think he didnt deserve a beating.I do and wont agree with you.

?