Cardinal John Henry Newman [Christian spirited Responses please]

lmaopml

Just to mark the occasion of the beatification of - by all accounts a tremendous figure, Cardinal John Henry, I wanted to post one of his poems which although written in the 'olde' English, when he was near death - is really quite beautiful and resonant...

For those interested in reading...

http://www.ccel.org/n/newman/gerontius/gerontius.htm

The Dream of Gerontius, by Cardinal John Henry Newman

Thanks for your contribution dear Cardinal, and RIP.

hivizman

"The Dream of Gerontius" is perhaps best known in Edward Elgar's wonderful choral setting. It contains one of my favourite hymns, "Praise to the Holiest in the Height".

Some years ago, I read Newman's book Essay on the Development of Christian Doctrine, which he wrote soon after going over to Rome, and I have also read, and would strongly recommend, his autobiographical Apologia pro Vita Sua.

Coming from the more Anglo-Catholic end of Anglicanism, I am very happy that Newman is being beatified.

who the fug

Funny how Ambrose St. John is not getting a mention.


Cardinal Newman did write one of the best bits of prose on education and its value, so this beatification does serve a purpose

lmaopml

hivizman wrote: »

"The Dream of Gerontius" is perhaps best known in Edward Elgar's wonderful choral setting. It contains one of my favourite hymns, "Praise to the Holiest in the Height".

Some years ago, I read Newman's book Essay on the Development of Christian Doctrine, which he wrote soon after going over to Rome, and I have also read, and would strongly recommend, his autobiographical Apologia pro Vita Sua.

Coming from the more Anglo-Catholic end of Anglicanism, I am very happy that Newman is being beatified.

I never heard the hymn although I knew of it's existence from the Cardinals biography, just listened to it on youtube, and yes it's lovely!

I'm really happy and comfortable about his beatification too, not because he ended up Roman Catholic, I'm sure there are plenty of saints that have never been beatified, but simply because of his extraordinary journey and the literature he left behind...

I really liked the guy, he sounded more 'modern' than old fashioned and so full of wisdom that crossed barriers and perceived divides that he stood out amongst his peers of the time..

I am actually half way through the 'Apologia' at the moment and he sounds so honest and sincere, it's a good read..

I'm more intrigued as I learn more about the man..

Cheers hivizman!:)

lmaopml

who the fug wrote: »

Funny how Ambrose St. John is not getting a mention.


Cardinal Newman did write one of the best bits of prose on education and its value, so this beatification does serve a purpose

Hi, I'm sorry I never mentioned Ambrose in the op, it wasn't my intention to leave him out. He was a huge inspiration, confidant and lifelong friend by all accounts..a spiritual soulmate.

I agree, UCD's origins are tied up with John Henry too.....

I guess there are people who just rise above their choices in hard times and stand out for good and what they believe, no matter what is at stake...He was one of those guys! A risk taker, a writer a poet and most of all a Christian who crossed boundaries...

hinault

Very interesting man, Cardinal Newman.

And it is interesting that the Pope has decided to beatify Newman, as Newman would be considered both CoE and Roman Catholic.
An ecumenical figure, if you like.

lmaopml

I think the decision was already written Hinault the day the man took his last breath, his destiny was known. We're only catching up now...as we do...

..and I think it's all good! No matter what denomination...if anybody takes the time to know the guy it's all good..He was a very likeable sort, even when he disagreed he was likeable, philosophical, factual, earnest and interesting....

A great figure, on whom much has been accomplished.

hinault

lmaopml wrote: »

I think the decision was already written Hinault the day the man took his last breath, his destiny was known. We're only catching up now...as we do...

..and I think it's all good! No matter what denomination...if anybody takes the time to know the guy it's all good..He was a very likeable sort, even when he disagreed he was likeable, philosophical, factual, earnest and interesting....

A great figure, on whom much has been accomplished.

For sure.
One of the great thinkers and intellectuals of Roman Catholicism, Newmans common touch and interest in helping the poor of Birmingham is most impressive.

alex73

hinault wrote: »

Very interesting man, Cardinal Newman.

And it is interesting that the Pope has decided to beatify Newman, as Newman would be considered both CoE and Roman Catholic.
An ecumenical figure, if you like.

Newman died a Catholic, He was infact a Cardinal when he died. He is not the 1st convert the Church as canonised. Newmans story its extraordinary in many ways.

santing

Written by an Irishman, and a good friend of Newman's brother...
http://www.stempublishing.com/authors/darby/DOCTRINE/18004E_A.html

alex73

santing wrote: »

Written by an Irishman, and a good friend of Newman's brother...
http://www.stempublishing.com/authors/darby/DOCTRINE/18004E_A.html

There as a lot of Criticism from Anglicans and Protestants. Some Anglicans said he was always a Catholic.

wolfsbane

hinault said:

Very interesting man, Cardinal Newman.

And it is interesting that the Pope has decided to beatify Newman, as Newman would be considered both CoE and Roman Catholic.
An ecumenical figure, if you like.

As alex73 points out, Newman is not both CoE and Roman Catholic - he ceased being an Anglican when he converted to Rome.

But you are right about him being an ecumenical figure. He is an example of the only end the ecumenical movement can reach - reconciliation with, and incorporation into, the Roman Catholic Church.

All the consultations and committees may talk to their heart's content, but the only product possible is an accommodation of words, not doctrine. All doctrine must be Roman, though the way it is explained can be adjusted to give sufficient obscurity to any who would be embarrassed to be openly Roman.

Those among them who do not wish to remain on the outside have only one option - full submission to the Pope and the Dogmas of the Roman Church. The idea floated by non-Catholic ecumenists, of an amalgamation of all churches or a confederation of equals, is naive at best.
_________________________________________________________________
Hebrews 13:0 We have an altar from which those who serve the tabernacle have no right to eat. 11 For the bodies of those animals, whose blood is brought into the sanctuary by the high priest for sin, are burned outside the camp. 12 Therefore Jesus also, that He might sanctify the people with His own blood, suffered outside the gate. 13 Therefore let us go forth to Him, outside the camp, bearing His reproach. 14 For here we have no continuing city, but we seek the one to come.

santing

wolfsbane wrote: »

hinault said:

As alex73 points out, Newman is not both CoE and Roman Catholic - he ceased being an Anglican when he converted to Rome.

But you are right about him being an ecumenical figure. He is an example of the only end the ecumenical movement can reach - reconciliation with, and incorporation into, the Roman Catholic Church.

All the consultations and committees may talk to their heart's content, but the only product possible is an accommodation of words, not doctrine. All doctrine must be Roman, though the way it is explained can be adjusted to give sufficient obscurity to any who would be embarrassed to be openly Roman.

Those among them who do not wish to remain on the outside have only one option - full submission to the Pope and the Dogmas of the Roman Church. The idea floated by non-Catholic ecumenists, of an amalgamation of all churches or a confederation of equals, is naive at best.

In Newman's own words:

I came to the conclusion that there was no medium between atheism and catholicity, and that a perfectly consistent mind, under those circumstances in which it finds itself here below, must embrace either one or the other" (Apologia Pro Vita Sua page 231)

So according to Newman, you are either an Atheist or you are a Roman Catholic.