Early Election?

pavb2

Don't normally post on politics but have a few questions

Assuming FF recognise they will not win the next election why do they not call an early election and let the new govt take the flak for impending cuts state of the economy etc.

This gives them time to regroup and looking at the UK I don't think Labour were too upset at losing. Winning the election seems to me to be a bit of a poisoned chalice.

There's no sign of an immediate economic recovery so it's unlikely that new govt will get credit for the recovery when it it comes or is it a case that FF must stay in power at all costs.

From the ordinary person's perspective do we think well FF have been dealing with the economic problems up to now and it would be a disaster to change mid stream or can the opposition seriously do more to improve things.

harpsman

I was worried about FF doing this for the last 18 months.
The reason they havent,i think,is that they
1)are very optimistically hoping for an economic turnaround which would save them.tbh i think even if the economy did recover they would still be well beaten in election
2)are so low in the polls that most of them are afraid they could lose their seat in an immediate election so its hang together or hang seperately
3)no interest for cowen and older members of cabinet in losing election-its the end of their careers

Laminations

FF will be decimated if an election were called.
Even in 2012 they may be decimated.
Some see this government as their last chance to be a minister or indeed Taoiseach.
I thinkk we'll have Cowen gone and a new leader/Taoiseach because if the senior heads dont push for this soon, they'll lose their chance at possibly every being Taoiseach.
Also a change of Taoiseach seems like the only way that they could gain ground between now and 2012 and I think the FFers believe they can gain ground.

So election now, everyone in FF loses.
Election in 2012, some people get to be ministers for 2 years, someone gets to be Taoiseach and then in 2012 everyone in FF loses (but maybe not as much).
I dont think an election will be called for the good of the country, it will only be considered if it is in their own interests

Biggins

As harpsman has said, its the end of some careers - including Harney (Hurray!).
So they are hanging in there for the extra great weekly wage, the perks, and being treated daily like royality by the ass kissers.

Then there is the 4 year state pension (for life) which all get. A pension that multiples in amount for every four years they are elected. And if your in office, even better, the financial bump is even greater!

Great racket it is! And YOU, the tax payer is paying for it in your wage slip weekly.

Denerick

I think point 3) nails it. Cowen has no future in politics and he is desperately trying to forge his legacy in this term. After that I have no doubt that he will retire from politics for good.

Other dullards like Michael Martin, Conor Lenihen etc. might think they have a future, but they really don't.

RATM

Biggins wrote: »

Whats going on!
I've posted into this thread twice now and my posts have vanished!!!

PJ Meara nicked them

FreudianSlippers

I'd love to see an early election, but I'd be afraid people would be voting with anger and resentment rather than rational thought. Sounds fantastic voting in the anarchists and the socialists when you're a bit pissed off at the current bunch, but realistically they'd mess things up more than anyone.... we'll be calling for another early election then too!

Benito

pavb2 wrote: »

Don't normally post on politics but have a few questions

Assuming FF recognise they will not win the next election why do they not call an early election and let the new govt take the flak for impending cuts state of the economy etc.

This gives them time to regroup and looking at the UK I don't think Labour were too upset at losing. Winning the election seems to me to be a bit of a poisoned chalice.

There's no sign of an immediate economic recovery so it's unlikely that new govt will get credit for the recovery when it it comes or is it a case that FF must stay in power at all costs.

From the ordinary person's perspective do we think well FF have been dealing with the economic problems up to now and it would be a disaster to change mid stream or can the opposition seriously do more to improve things.

I don't wish to seem to be talking down to you. Your query is very valid but, politics as it relates to the parliament is not about doing a good job.
It's about milking the system and taking care of number one. When the Dail takes a vote, do most of the fools even know the issue they are voting on? Look at the European votes. What were the issues debated? nothing but spin and sound-bites. The biggest thing that's being talked about ATM is Cowen's hangover ( or not) but, the Dail has been on holiday for nearly four months at a very serious time. Who is running the place in their absence? You are probably very sane not to post in the 'politics' section. You just may hold on to your sanity!

alang184

Benito wrote: »

...politics as it relates to the parliament is not about doing a good job...
...When the Dail takes a vote, do most of the fools even know the issue they are voting on?...
...The biggest thing that's being talked about ATM is Cowen's hangover ( or not) but, the Dail has been on holiday for nearly four months at a very serious time.

Absolutely right.

The big problem is people's disinterest in politics (and particularly economics at this time). FF are getting away with the absurd Anglo/NAMA plans because most people don't understand it, don't care about it, don't understand the consequences, and are influenced by RTE giving too much airtime to the spin: "There's no alternative".

One way to highlight the public disinterest in politics is looking at the turnout for previous referendums (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amendments_to_the_Constitution_of_Ireland):

34.8% - Nice I
42.9% - Abortion Restrictions
49.5% - Nice II
53.1% - Lison I
58% - Lisbon II (even after all of the publicity)

So when the general election comes along, a core percentage of people are suddenly tuning-in to politics with very little background or insight, which means that their vote depends hugely on sound-bites, catchphrases, appearance etc.

How do I know? Because in 2007 I voted for FF & PDs. I spent all my time in music, sport etc, and when the election came around, Bertie looked more impressive than Kenny, as did Michael O'Dowell in his execution of Gerry Adams on RTE. So they got my vote.

Two years ago, with rent prices collapsing, I got an interest in economics, and thus Irish politics. I don't consider myself a fool in 2007. Clearly, I was just disinterested in politics then, just as so many people are in Ireland today.

Benito

Alang,

You voted for FF/PD. I held me nose and voted Lab/FG, without much hope. My post in reply to the OP was meant to be sympathic. I wish I had posted your reply, it's better

Cheers!

Callan57

FF voluntarily give up the gravy train ... you must be joking.:D
They will brazen it out for as long as possible ... national interest carries no weight at all with FF people the term doesn't even feature on their clár, the only interest they serve is self interest yesterday, today and all our tomorrows if they can. :mad:
They would have to be genetically modified to do otherwise.

Benito

Callan57 wrote: »

FF voluntarily give up the gravy train ... you must be joking.:D
They will brazen it out for as long as possible ... national interest carries no weight at all with FF people the term doesn't even feature on their clár, the only interest they serve is self interest yesterday, today and all our tomorrows if they can. :mad:
They would have to be genetically modified to do otherwise.

We need to genetically modify all of the 166, sorry, 165 f******s, plus the other one and then cap the money they 'earn' and the expenses they claim.
The Government still have a majority and unless they implode, we are in for more votes by 166 people to decide the fate of 4000.000 people.

alang184

Benito wrote: »

Alang,

You voted for FF/PD. I held me nose and voted Lab/FG, without much hope.

Ah yes, what I meant was - Because of my disinterest in politics, and complete lack of knowledge of what was really going on (i.e. the complete shambolic economic policies of Cowen), I ended up voting for FF/PDs. Had I been more knowledgeable, I would've known that FF had made a mess of the country.

As David McWilliams said in 2003:

"The Irish housing market is a scam. It is an enormous financial swindle that could potentially confine an entire generation of young Irish workers to years of bad debt."

Had I paid attention to this kind of thing, I'd have known not to touch FF in 2007. Similarly, right now, I believe if the public was more interested in politics, and found out what was really going on, there would be mayhem over NAMA/Anglo.

pavb2

No some very good comments the idea of my post was to actually try & understand better in plain language the present situation without the spin hype etc.

The general feeling does seem to be that a very small selfish,corrupt, self serving minority have got us in to this mess and continue to look after their own interests rather than putting the nation first (as they were elected to do) and trying to address the issues.

But is it too much of a generalisation to say that they are all ethically and morally bankrupt surely some of them have some integrity and ideals.
To what degree has the global recession had a part to play?

So what is the solution? To me it seems like a complete political revolution is required including a change in peoples' atitude,maybe new political parties with leaders who actually put the country 1st.


Not really going to happen is it? But what are the alternatives?