Calling all amateur detailers!

robodonkey

Hi everyone, Just bought a car with LOADS of scratches.
Looking for anyone who'd like to show me how to wet sand and buff a panel?
I'm thinking of buying one of the p+c orbitals but don't really want to invest a huge amount of $ if the car is beyond saving. Its a shame because every panel is dead straight and no rust at all....

I'm in Dublin but will happily drive to wherever if someone had the time to show me a wet sand + orbital buff/seal job?

Anyone done this type of thing before?

Ta!

bmw535d

i wouldn't think it needs a wet sanding. just a good wash, clay bar treatment, cutting polish, and wax.

im sure your talking about swirl marks so you should research the above and give it a go.

robodonkey

Pretty sure these are the result of someone washing/polishing with a cloth that must have had a stone or something in it.
Not just the swirls from age or poor washing over time if you know what I mean.
I've had a chap do a polish on it, but that's not done the trick.
Maybe it needs a good abrasive "cut" alright, but defo will need machine.

Anyone got one I could borrow to test the polish/wet sand theory?

Ta...

L-M

How old/new is the car? Would it not be worth getting one of the professionals to do it? Cleancar.ie or detailer.ie...

You could easily end up going too far into the paint and removing paint, ending up in a panel needing to be resprayed. By the sounds of it, with that level of damage, I'd leave it to the pro's!

vectra

give Detailer.ie a shout
they will advise on whats needed to be done.
You can buy the items from them as well as they are close by you.

Black_Knight

6 posts in, and no sign of PaintDoctor! Slipping PD, slipping.

Seperate

If you want to pop over to buy a machine polishing kit, i'll gladly help you with a panel so you get the gist of it. I'll run around the car with the paint gauge on it too to make sure you've enough paint for a no holds barred polish!

Wet sanding a full car is a nightmare, and will take a long time. I wouldn't recommend it.

What kind of car is it?

barochoc

Car sounds like it has just been run trough the local car wash regularly. They destroy your car.

Give the car a good wash, get stuck in. Remove all dirt & dry the car with decent cotton (Even old T-Shirts) or leather Chamois. Get stuck in with the clay bar (Careful not to drop it as it will be shagged) then T-Cut to remove any oxidization & a small layer of lacquer. then a good wax, maybe two.

Major patience & time needed. Unless using cotton heads on a polisher I wouldn't bother. Just do it by hand with some old 100% cotton T-Shirts.

That's just my advice. Haven't done it for a long time. I hope you have a garage to store the car in!!

robodonkey

Cheers for replies folks, I actually had detailer.ie take a look - just can't afford the $$ at the moment. He did reckon he could get 70% of it gone.


@Seperate, do you sell the polishers? I'd be grateful if you could show me a panel and assist with your paintgauge too....ok if I PM you?

Owen

Black_Knight wrote: »

6 posts in, and no sign of PaintDoctor! Slipping PD, slipping.

I was asleep Besides, even though I'm good with that sort of thing, Separate is the expert on here when it comes to detailing. I'll gladly defer to his knowledge every time.

Seperate

robodonkey wrote: »

Cheers for replies folks, I actually had detailer.ie take a look - just can't afford the $$ at the moment. He did reckon he could get 70% of it gone.


@Seperate, do you sell the polishers? I'd be grateful if you could show me a panel and assist with your paintgauge too....ok if I PM you?

Yep! Here - http://detailer.ie/acatalog/product.php?id_product=102

You sure it was detailer.ie you contacted? I don't remember saing 70% to anyone... unless it was an enhancement detail as opposed to a full paint correction!

robodonkey

Maybe it wasn't you I looked up a few websites....I guess you aren't in wicklow/bray?

robodonkey

Ah, no sir - just checked your site, defo not you. The guy I was talking to was in Wicklow.
I did check your site though.....are you open tomorrow morning? I'd like to get started tomorrow, if you had some time to show me (on one of my panels) what's possible I'd be keen on that starter kit...

robodonkey

Well....I bought the orbital polisher and gave the rear a bit of a go (thanks Andy) but still no joy, weird, feint little scratches all over - must be embedded in paint because they sure as hell aren't in the laquer!
Think I'll just have to maintain a high polish and pretend there are no scratches

robodonkey

Well, I think I gave the orbital polishing a fair turn, no joy.
Can't feel the scratches but they are there alright.
What's the next step?

PD - any idea on what the next thing to try would be?
Is there polish that fills scratches (think I've seen video on this) that's available?

L-M

robodonkey wrote: »

Well, I think I gave the orbital polishing a fair turn, no joy.
Can't feel the scratches but they are there alright.
What's the next step?

PD - any idea on what the next thing to try would be?
Is there polish that fills scratches (think I've seen video on this) that's available?

The general consensus if that if you can feel them you paint em!

feelites

get all of the worst scratches sanded with wet 2000 paper
when all of them are sanded down get the cutting compound /suggest G3 FORECLA/
work on sanded areas and all other parts u want to get smoothed
after that u can use some polish /meguiars polish for example/
and then seal it with good wax

its a few good hours job



or leave it to the professional lad, they charge 80-120 for full car and u will not recognize it after

Owen

robodonkey wrote: »

PD - any idea on what the next thing to try would be?
Is there polish that fills scratches (think I've seen video on this) that's available?

Unfortunately no. There's some 'miracle' products out there which are a pile of rubbish. The first one is a 'fix it pen' being sold on TV channels. All the pen contains is lacquer, and only works on very slight scratches which you could polish out anyway.

The second is a system called SSR - Sprayless Scratch Removal. It's something I'm looking into for vandal scratches all the way down the side of a car. It's not cheap to buy the gear, but they claim that you rub the ridiculously expensive coloured resin into the scratch, dry it, and buff it flat. I'm skeptical whether or not it works - there is one company I know using it, but I'd rather try it out myself and see what it's like.

Either which way, the real test for a scratch is to drag your nail on it. If your nail goes into it, it won't buff out. If it doesn't, it probably will buff out, but you need to be careful in case you go through the lacquer and paint and down into the primer. I'd recommend just giving the car to Separate/Andy for a professional detail - I've seen his work on here and it's honestly remarkable.

MetzgerMeister

+1 for giving it to Seperate.

He is excellent at what he does. Go to www.detailer.ie and check out his work. It would save you a lot of hassle and time if you just saved up the money and gave it to him.

It's not on his site now for some reason but he did a dark blue RX8 at one stage. The owner was getting his house painted and the car got a few splatters. The painter then went along with what I think was steel wool and made absolute **** of the car's paint trying to get rid of the splatters.

Andy was able to get out this horrific damage without the need to respray the section.

robodonkey

Yep - I'll have to wait and see how the $$ line up. Maybe in a few months....wish I wasn't such a picky bugger and could just live with it!!!
Andy mentioned that RX8...seriously - going at a car with a pot scourer!

Owen

robodonkey wrote: »

going at a car with a pot scourer!

I do that every day, seriously

Seperate

I was telling the OP about the RX8 the other day. Here's some pics.





















3 days later....





This was over two years ago and I see this car a bit, I think he lives near me, it's still in decent nick!

Tigger

soon i shall bring you my beemer

Grimreaper666

Seperate wrote: »

I was telling the OP about the RX8 the other day. Here's some pics.





















3 days later....





This was over two years ago and I see this car a bit, I think he lives near me, it's still in decent nick!

3 days later??? Surely it would be as quick to just paint it and as cheap?

Seperate

Grimreaper666 wrote: »

3 days later??? Surely it would be as quick to just paint it and as cheap?

Paint the whole car? Nowhere near the cost of that.

The owner had been prepared to go for respray, but was recommended to us before he had to committed to the spray. There was no need to go blowing €2k on a respray.

The job was 2 years ago now, so I can't recall the exact amount charged, but it wouldn't have been any more than €475-500.

Grimreaper666

Seperate wrote: »

Paint the whole car? Nowhere near the cost of that.

The owner had been prepared to go for respray, but was recommended to us before he had to committed to the spray. There was no need to go blowing €2k on a respray.

The job was 2 years ago now, so I can't recall the exact amount charged, but it wouldn't have been any more than €475-500.

A straight repaint of a car doesn't cost 2k, not even retail. I can get a car repainted for 6-800 euros without bodywork, i.e. dents etc, by a professional in an oven. 475-500 sounds like a lot of money to machine polish a car, all due respects but if you're getting it the best of luck to you.

robodonkey

Grimreaper666 wrote: »

A straight repaint of a car doesn't cost 2k, not even retail. I can get a car repainted for 6-800 euros without bodywork, i.e. dents etc, by a professional in an oven. 475-500 sounds like a lot of money to machine polish a car, all due respects but if you're getting it the best of luck to you.

Where'd do the respray for that money?
I've been quoted 2k!!!!

I might be interested (not today or tomorrow but in a few months!) for that sort of price. And yep - bodywork is straight up nowt needing doing, just a few stonechips up front.

PM me with a number if you could. Thanks!

MetzgerMeister

PaintDoctor wrote: »

I do that every day, seriously

Yes, but that's called "keying", not "making **** of perfectly good paint

Grimreaper666 wrote: »

3 days later??? Surely it would be as quick to just paint it and as cheap?

Get a few quotes for respraying the bonnet and possibly driver's wheel arch and see the prices you get

Also, Andy did the paint correction on the whole car for that money, not just that section. Very laborious work.

Grimreaper666 wrote: »

A straight repaint of a car doesn't cost 2k, not even retail. I can get a car repainted for 6-800 euros without bodywork, i.e. dents etc, by a professional in an oven. 475-500 sounds like a lot of money to machine polish a car, all due respects but if you're getting it the best of luck to you.

Like above, he didn't only machine polish it. He got out every swirl mark and scratch on the car with a Paint Correction. After this is done, he then polishes the paint and then waxes it. Go to his site and watch the Audi R8 video and see how long it takes to do one section!

robodonkey

Horses for courses I reckon.

I can definitely see the value of good paint correction (keeps original paint etc) and I saw only good things (nice setup/clean workshop/helpful attitude) when I met Andy last week.

I think in my case, it's beyond "correction" though (to a level I'd be happy with) or at least the manpower required combined with potential damage to remaining paint to get the scratches out would probably equal the cost of a no-fuss respray.

Just saying that there's some jobs that need a paint, and there's some that don't. So not really saying much am I?

R.O.R

Grimreaper666 wrote: »

A straight repaint of a car doesn't cost 2k, not even retail. I can get a car repainted for 6-800 euros without bodywork, i.e. dents etc, by a professional in an oven. 475-500 sounds like a lot of money to machine polish a car, all due respects but if you're getting it the best of luck to you.

€600-€800 for a full respray :rolleyes:

I'd say that's a quality job :eek:

That wouldn't even cover the labour of preparing a car properly for a full respray.

Grimreaper666

R.O.R wrote: »

€600-€800 for a full respray :rolleyes:

I'd say that's a quality job :eek:

That wouldn't even cover the labour of preparing a car properly for a full respray.

Well it's being done and I know of three main dealers availing of his services, got two cars done there myself and no problems with them. I assume your talking Dublin prices at 2k.:rolleyes:

R.O.R

Grimreaper666 wrote: »

Well it's being done and I know of three main dealers availing of his services, got two cars done there myself and no problems with them. I assume your talking Dublin prices at 2k.:rolleyes:

I'm just talking prices for a decent job, nationwide.

Got offered a commercial respray for €1,200 in Monaghan a few years ago. That involves taping paper over the wheels and windows on a Transit or the like and blasting it in white (or whatever colour).

No prep apart from washing and de-tarring and god knows what type of finish.

Passed on that offer.

Seperate

R.O.R wrote: »

€600-€800 for a full respray :rolleyes:

I'd say that's a quality job :eek:

That wouldn't even cover the labour of preparing a car properly for a full respray.

Agreed. There's absolutely no chance you could make money spraying a car for that. Take into account the cost of the materials, the VAT & the preperation alone, you would be losing money hand over fist.

If, like above, they were spraying panels when still on the car, glass still in doors etc - maybe, but i wouldn't like to see the results.

feelites

full car laquer restoration /sanding down whole car, cutting, buffing, sealing/ shouldn't be more than 300 in my opinion as u can do it in one day and there's no big material costs /paper few quids, cutting compound few quids, polish & was few quids/ so all the job is the labour 250e for a day thats LOADS if anybody gonna charge more for this thats a legal rip off


i know profesional car detailer who is doing excellent laquer restoration /as above/ for no more than 200e! satisfy guaranteed on money back

Owen

feelites wrote: »

full car laquer restoration /sanding down whole car, cutting, buffing, sealing/ shouldn't be more than 300 in my opinion as u can do it in one day and there's no big material costs /paper few quids, cutting compound few quids, polish & was few quids/ so all the job is the labour 250e for a day thats LOADS if anybody gonna charge more for this thats a legal rip off

There's a very big difference between a guy who does a bit of wet sanding, and machine polishing for 300 for a day, and what Separate does. There's wet sanding and polishing (I do that, and it's no rocket science), and there's detailing. The two are very different disciplines.

As for painting a whole car for 800 Euro? Holy moly, how does the guy put food on the table when he takes costs out of the equation?

feelites

PaintDoctor wrote: »

There's a very big difference between a guy who does a bit of wet sanding, and machine polishing for 300 for a day, and what Separate does. There's wet sanding and polishing (I do that, and it's no rocket science), and there's detailing. The two are very different disciplines.

As for painting a whole car for 800 Euro? Holy moly, how does the guy put food on the table when he takes costs out of the equation?

can u tell me then, what is the diffirence between wet sanding and wet sanding? same with machine polishing and machine polishing?

maybe i dont get it but as i said guy IS a professional, he just dont robb people as so many people do

Owen

feelites wrote: »

can u tell me then, what is the diffirence between wet sanding and wet sanding? same with machine polishing and machine polishing?

maybe i dont get it but as i said guy IS a professional, he just dont robb people as so many people do

The difference between wet sanding & polishing, and detailing is huge. No one's robbing anyone. I'm a guy who does wet sanding and polishing for around the price you mentioned - why would I say detailing is a superior job if I was doing the same thing for less money?

feelites

of course if the bodywork needs detailing that might be more expensive, but as OP stated there's no issues with the bodywork except few stone chips so i cant see point of making simple sanding detailed to the bits... no offense im not saying u or anybody else who's doing honest job is a robber but i know it should not cost more than 300 fully restorated

thats IMHO ofcourse

robodonkey

Jaysus - I'm more confused now than when I started!!

@seperate, what do you reckon (having seen the car) it needs:

(1) Detailing

(2) Wet sand/polish/seal

(3) Respray

PS I'll understand if you can't answer, I know you only saw it for a few minutes.

PPS Keep in mind that I've gone to town on a panel and the scratches ain't shifting with the orbital and the "deep cut" compound.....

Diamonddec

How did this end up?

robodonkey

Nothing to report, I've cut/polished with orbital but still these scratches persist.
Did a section with some aggresive compound, and still no joy.

I'd love to be rid of them, but they are not that noticable, so I'll just have to keep it shiny and live with it!

Grimreaper666

Grimreaper666 wrote: »

Well it's being done and I know of three main dealers availing of his services

Name and shame the 3 dealers :pac: