Do I just need a break?

theredletter · 16-09-2010 10:59am #1

Hey guys,

I started out with my PhD this time last year and I'm beginning to think that it's not for me for a variety of reasons. I am a scholarship holder and have been tutoring up to 10 hours a week which has taken its toll on my research. 10 hours turned into other admin work and then I ended up working half days in an office along with the tutoring. I am very interested in the area I'm studying and everyone seems exciting about what I am doing - it's very modern and new and could change a few things in my field. But... maybe I'm not the person for the job.

I worked my butt off during my BA and got a high 1.1 and the scholarship and then once I got accepted to the PhD I lost interest in a few ways. I felt like I had accomplished everything I needed to - I got the scholarship, got accepted to the PhD, became a tutor, administrator etc. This year I even got some modules to lecture. But I can't help to feel that this gig is a bit too lonely for me. I'm a people person and find sitting in an office/ library from 9-5 is a bit much. I find I can do my research but after three months in the library during the summer I'm questioning whether it's for me. But I think that this in itself is too scary for me as I question then what the hell will I do and how the hell will I pay the scholarship back (as I won't be graduating).

I think I want to go back to college and do the MA in my field and then return to the PhD if and when I'm ready to. I also have an interest in a completely different subject (Psychology) and have ALWAYS wanted to do Medicine (probably for the wrong reasons). I also think I'd be good at PR and HR because of my good people skills. I feel like I'm wasting my personality in research. I love to lecture because I get that surge of interacting with people and performing, but I don't get that when I'm slogging in the library.

I'm considering just finishing the PhD as soon as I can. I've done a year of very, very mediocre work so maybe I should pull my socks up, grit my teeth and continue until I've earned it and then abandon academia.

The issue of academia is getting to me as well. I find that a lot of money is just poured into terrible places and that standards are pretty awful. I also HATE having to be fake to 'famous' academics even though I know they are awful people whose work I would never read or like. The niche circle of academia is also driving me nuts with constant competition and snobiness.

Sorry for my rant... just in a bad mood I suppose

Ross

El Siglo · 16-09-2010 12:36pm

theredletter wrote: »

Hey guys,

I started out with my PhD this time last year and I'm beginning to think that it's not for me for a variety of reasons. I am a scholarship holder and have been tutoring up to 10 hours a week which has taken its toll on my research. 10 hours turned into other admin work and then I ended up working half days in an office along with the tutoring. I am very interested in the area I'm studying and everyone seems exciting about what I am doing - it's very modern and new and could change a few things in my field. But... maybe I'm not the person for the job.

I worked my butt off during my BA and got a high 1.1 and the scholarship and then once I got accepted to the PhD I lost interest in a few ways. I felt like I had accomplished everything I needed to - I got the scholarship, got accepted to the PhD, became a tutor, administrator etc. This year I even got some modules to lecture. But I can't help to feel that this gig is a bit too lonely for me. I'm a people person and find sitting in an office/ library from 9-5 is a bit much. I find I can do my research but after three months in the library during the summer I'm questioning whether it's for me. But I think that this in itself is too scary for me as I question then what the hell will I do and how the hell will I pay the scholarship back (as I won't be graduating).

I think I want to go back to college and do the MA in my field and then return to the PhD if and when I'm ready to. I also have an interest in a completely different subject (Psychology) and have ALWAYS wanted to do Medicine (probably for the wrong reasons). I also think I'd be good at PR and HR because of my good people skills. I feel like I'm wasting my personality in research. I love to lecture because I get that surge of interacting with people and performing, but I don't get that when I'm slogging in the library.

I'm considering just finishing the PhD as soon as I can. I've done a year of very, very mediocre work so maybe I should pull my socks up, grit my teeth and continue until I've earned it and then abandon academia.

The issue of academia is getting to me as well. I find that a lot of money is just poured into terrible places and that standards are pretty awful. I also HATE having to be fake to 'famous' academics even though I know they are awful people whose work I would never read or like. The niche circle of academia is also driving me nuts with constant competition and snobiness.

Sorry for my rant... just in a bad mood I suppose

Ross

A few words of advice, take it or leave it; suck it up.

You're motivation has gone to pants at the moment but it's no reason to quit just yet. If your super was a dick, if the topic was shit etc... then maybe, but not when it's motivation. It's normal to lose motivation, and there would be something wrong if you didn't. The trick to it is concentrate and literally get stuck into something (e.g. field work, lab work, analysing data etc...) this is the stuff that's time consuming but keeps you focussed and motivated and it also gives you goals (e.g. I got these data for such and such tested for TOC, looks interesting might do some ANOVA on it and see what happens). Believe it or not from what you've posted regarding your first year, you've got some good experience. It would be a waste to give up now just before shit really gets real.:pac:

theredletter · 16-09-2010 1:00pm

Ah yeah, I know. I have a pretty cool CV in the sense that in the space of one year I've done a LOT of new things and even did a certificate course. I had a death in the family and that really stressed me out for a good long while too. It's just the loneliness that gets to me more so than anything else. The other PhDs are ten or so years older than me and I find it difficult to relate to them outside of research and also feel like they're a bit embittered after everything that was given to me.. Which isn't nice seeing as I worked hard for them and think they're lovely guys who I'd get on with apart from that.

You're right though, I'm going to continue at it. I just haven't done a lot of research. I doubt I've enough read even for an undergrad dissertation at this stage. I'll just have to get myself in the zone and do three good days at least a week (as I work the other two)

catho_monster · 16-09-2010 1:31pm

The disillusionment happens everyone, I'll say that. Tiny little manageable tasks, thats the only thing that will get you through...one after another. The next thing you know you'll be finished.

One thing jumps out at me in your last post - I'm not quite sure why you'd only do your phd over a five day week? I work two days a week, and do my phd the other five days, I'd never make any progress otherwise. I'm working for a phd despite my job, and I'll be damned if I let if affect my progress. It's been hard but worth it.

theredletter · 16-09-2010 1:36pm

2 days are completely dedicated to teaching and weekends have been known to be taken up with correcting and organising classes. I have organised all my tutorials but with the whole new 'assessments of needs' i have to constantly tweek them for lower standard students and that. It makes for very effective tutorials but takes a lot of time out of my research. Last year I had tutorials spread out over five days + travel and I was wrecked I could barely keep up with the tutorials themselves. This years should be more organised but three days is all I'll be able to do, I presume. Possible four.

brianthebard · 16-09-2010 1:54pm

Firstly, have you talked to your supervisor about how to balance tutoring and research? They should know a thing or two about this and might have some tips.

Quitting and switching topics or jobs just smacks of a 'grass is always greener' attitude. You're in a really good place money and research wise right now, if you change to a different MA you'll lose your fellowship, possibly having to pay back what you used already (not sure about that) and you'll have to pay fees for your new courses. A Phd is a 4 year or more commitment and is a test of your abilities in more than just research.

This stuff about the bad side of academia and being fake is imo a personal issue, its not the creation of university and your course. If you don't like someone don't suck up to them, its simple. If you are already compromising yourself now and feel bad about it, how do you even know you won't do the same in another job or course? That's something you probably need to address separately to your phd.

Finally as for being lonely and a people person trapped in academia, its up to you how much you see people. Presumably you have a research centre or lab that other phd students work out of. Why aren't you hanging out with them? I was/am in a similar position but I know exactly why I didn't see people much for the last year, and its not the courses fault, its cause I wasn't making enough effort to see people. Clubs and Societies are still open to you, even if you have work on.

theredletter · 16-09-2010 2:08pm

brianthebard wrote: »

Firstly, have you talked to your supervisor about how to balance tutoring and research? They should know a thing or two about this and might have some tips.

Quitting and switching topics or jobs just smacks of a 'grass is always greener' attitude. You're in a really good place money and research wise right now, if you change to a different MA you'll lose your fellowship, possibly having to pay back what you used already (not sure about that) and you'll have to pay fees for your new courses. A Phd is a 4 year or more commitment and is a test of your abilities in more than just research.

This stuff about the bad side of academia and being fake is imo a personal issue, its not the creation of university and your course. If you don't like someone don't suck up to them, its simple. If you are already compromising yourself now and feel bad about it, how do you even know you won't do the same in another job or course? That's something you probably need to address separately to your phd.

Finally as for being lonely and a people person trapped in academia, its up to you how much you see people. Presumably you have a research centre or lab that other phd students work out of. Why aren't you hanging out with them? I was/am in a similar position but I know exactly why I didn't see people much for the last year, and its not the courses fault, its cause I wasn't making enough effort to see people. Clubs and Societies are still open to you, even if you have work on.

I haven't spoken to my supervisor about this but she has a very relaxed attitude and doesn't really help me to the best of her ability imo. I don't except much of a supervisor, but she barely contacts me and our meetings are short and unhelpful to say the least. I get on great with her, however! So I will just have to put up with her and get her to put the pressure on.

True about the grass being greener... I just feel as though I've nothing to accomplish or that I'm not that bothered in proving something in my research. Like, what's the point? A thesis that no one will read thrown in a library filing cabinet. I'm like the fishermen from the Donegal catch ads.. ha!

The bad attitudes of others is annoying me and it isn't of my creation. I was scolded once after giving out about a book I disliked because the author was in the room and he is a PhD so we have to respect him...? OK... calm down. Just because someone has a PhD does not make them multi-talented and this particular man CANNOT write creatively imo. Simple as that. I haven't been sucking up, I just feel like I should be like other people on my level are...

Clubs and Socs isn't an option. I tried that last year and it got messy being in Drama soc with some of my students. They'd ask me for better grades/ advice etc. I even had to move out of where the college is based because of this... I know live an hour away by bus. Also there is no post-grad room in the college

Liking the advice, guys. It's making me feel a lot better, I gotta say!

catho_monster · 16-09-2010 2:22pm

1) It's not your supervisors job to put pressure on you.
2) When you start giving your supervisor work that she needs to supervise, then she'll be able to. Not until you have clarified what you need from her, will she be able to guide you. You take the lead in this one.
3) You do a PhD to complete something, to prove and show the world that you are able to do this. And by this I mean that you are able to plan your time, structure research without anyone's help, motivate yourself - all of this on top of the fact that your actual research is legendary and will help people after you view things differently.
4) Just because you don't like someone's work does not mean that you have to say it in their presence. There's a difference between not sucking up and common decency.
5) Moving an hour away just because of some students does not sound like a good idea to me. You could easily tell them that they were acting inappropriately, put them back in their place - and now you've just gone and added commuting time in where you could have been studying.

theredletter · 16-09-2010 2:33pm

catho_monster wrote: »

1) It's not your supervisors job to put pressure on you.
2) When you start giving your supervisor work that she needs to supervise, then she'll be able to. Not until you have clarified what you need from her, will she be able to guide you. You take the lead in this one.
3) You do a PhD to complete something, to prove and show the world that you are able to do this. And by this I mean that you are able to plan your time, structure research without anyone's help, motivate yourself - all of this on top of the fact that your actual research is legendary and will help people after you view things differently.
4) Just because you don't like someone's work does not mean that you have to say it in their presence. There's a difference between not sucking up and common decency.
5) Moving an hour away just because of some students does not sound like a good idea to me. You could easily tell them that they were acting inappropriately, put them back in their place - and now you've just gone and added commuting time in where you could have been studying.

I don't need to be lectured on 'common decency'. This was a conference in Dublin where over 500 people were. I somehow doubt the writer in question would have heard me, and I will continue to share my opinions thank you very much. I had reasoning behind my arguments and wasn't looking to be rude. The response I got, however, was rude and misdirected. Maybe I should have clarified.

I don't need to be on-campus to study. As I said we don't have a post-grad room so I'd be stuck in the library which has an inadequate collection. Actually, I'm closer to the NLI now so I used that all summer.

Thanks for your other points, though. I'll keep them in mind.

brianthebard · 16-09-2010 3:27pm

catho_monster wrote: »

1) It's not your supervisors job to put pressure on you.
2) When you start giving your supervisor work that she needs to supervise, then she'll be able to. Not until you have clarified what you need from her, will she be able to guide you. You take the lead in this one.
3) You do a PhD to complete something, to prove and show the world that you are able to do this. And by this I mean that you are able to plan your time, structure research without anyone's help, motivate yourself - all of this on top of the fact that your actual research is legendary and will help people after you view things differently.
4) Just because you don't like someone's work does not mean that you have to say it in their presence. There's a difference between not sucking up and common decency.
5) Moving an hour away just because of some students does not sound like a good idea to me. You could easily tell them that they were acting inappropriately, put them back in their place - and now you've just gone and added commuting time in where you could have been studying.

+1 to all of this, exactly what I would have said.
To add a few points though for the op, if you feel your supervisor isn't doing enough for you then you need to do something about it. Lots of people complain constantly about their supervisor but are never proactive about meeting them, discussing things with them, etc. Get a second supervisor if necessary to fulfil whatever role the first one isn't providing. Talk to others in your position and see how they cope. Talk to other lecturers about how they did it.

If the 'lecture on common decency' is the only example of sucking up or having to act a certain way to participate in academia then you are overreacting tbh. I agree you should be able to say you dislike a book but you probably shouldn't be saying it in the same room, or if you are you should be directing it towards that person rather than talking in a corner. You didn't know they were there fair enough but the person who told you they were there was just looking out for you from the sounds of things.

What uni are you in? If you living an hour away from campus then its no wonder you feel isolated. In NUIG there is a postgrad society, I'm sure there are others around the place. Also if a student is being cheeky then like catho said above you don't just give up because of it. If they are asking for advice then you should be trying to help, that's what a teacher does.

theredletter · 16-09-2010 3:37pm

brianthebard wrote: »

+1 to all of this, exactly what I would have said.
To add a few points though for the op, if you feel your supervisor isn't doing enough for you then you need to do something about it. Lots of people complain constantly about their supervisor but are never proactive about meeting them, discussing things with them, etc. Get a second supervisor if necessary to fulfil whatever role the first one isn't providing. Talk to others in your position and see how they cope. Talk to other lecturers about how they did it.

If the 'lecture on common decency' is the only example of sucking up or having to act a certain way to participate in academia then you are overreacting tbh. I agree you should be able to say you dislike a book but you probably shouldn't be saying it in the same room, or if you are you should be directing it towards that person rather than talking in a corner. You didn't know they were there fair enough but the person who told you they were there was just looking out for you from the sounds of things.

What uni are you in? If you living an hour away from campus then its no wonder you feel isolated. In NUIG there is a postgrad society, I'm sure there are others around the place. Also if a student is being cheeky then like catho said above you don't just give up because of it. If they are asking for advice then you should be trying to help, that's what a teacher does.

No, no. I love teaching, but I want a break too.. I want to be able to hang out with people without having to guide them through my area, ya know? I love it, but I don't want to feel like I'm constantly the one in charge. I'm a young guy, I wanna act young and do 'young' things too..

And the writer, to clarify, was giving a paper. I said "yeah, I read it, to be honest I didn't like the book for various reasons, but he's a great academic" and got a foul reaction. I also get this vibe from certain people in my field. I don't think it's the same in other areas, to be frank.

I've already signed a lease for the year so I'm stuck where I am, I'm afraid... It will motivate me to get up earlier and be in college/ the NLI for an earlier start. I hope.

catho_monster · 16-09-2010 3:37pm

theredletter wrote: »

I don't need to be on-campus to study. As I said we don't have a post-grad room so I'd be stuck in the library which has an inadequate collection. Actually, I'm closer to the NLI now so I used that all summer.

I wasn't referring to where you study, but the fact that you have just added on 10 hours commuting time (5 days a week, an hour each way) from where you live to where you work - simply because of an issue with students which should have been able to be resolved easily, without affecting your work. That 10 hours could be put towards the phd. Simple as.

It may sound like I'm picking - but to be honest, it's these little things, these decisions that you make that all have a rebound effect on how productive you are.

brianthebard · 16-09-2010 3:48pm

theredletter wrote: »

And the writer, to clarify, was giving a paper. I said "yeah, I read it, to be honest I didn't like the book for various reasons, but he's a great academic" and got a foul reaction. I also get this vibe from certain people in my field. I don't think it's the same in other areas, to be frank.

I think for your own sake you should consider this as a once off and not worry about it again unless there are several, much worse examples happening frequently. It will only aggravate you and it sounds like it might have been a minor issue in the grand scheme of things.

I've already signed a lease for the year so I'm stuck where I am, I'm afraid... It will motivate me to get up earlier and be in college/ the NLI for an earlier start. I hope.

Good stuff, proper scheduling will help a lot, including planning what work you should have done for when, etc. Again think about discussing this with your supervisor, mine has me hand in writing at fairly regular intervals. If your supervisor isn't doing this ask them why. Its good that you are close to the NLI, that's definitely a good spot to be in so there are certainly positives for you atm as well.

theredletter · 16-09-2010 3:50pm

catho_monster wrote: »

I wasn't referring to where you study, but the fact that you have just added on 10 hours commuting time (5 days a week, an hour each way) from where you live to where you work - simply because of an issue with students which should have been able to be resolved easily, without affecting your work. That 10 hours could be put towards the phd. Simple as.

It may sound like I'm picking - but to be honest, it's these little things, these decisions that you make that all have a rebound effect on how productive you are.

Yeah you are picking, slightly. That was last year. I've already re-organised my tutorials for this year making me only having to commute twice a week which will be 4 hours rather than 10. I get where you're coming from, though. I have to commute to the NLI as well. Which is a 10 minute bus journey. Which is 20 minutes a day... or an hour a week! If we took that approach in life we simply wouldn't have one. Time management is essential, I suppose, but I think you're being a bit over the top. Most people who work commute as well. My Dad commutes the same distance, and has done for over 20 years. He survived. You're right, though, but I have sorted it.

PM'd you Brian to explain something further.

Ostrom · 16-09-2010 4:32pm

theredletter wrote: »

Hey guys,

I started out with my PhD this time last year and I'm beginning to think that it's not for me for a variety of reasons. I am a scholarship holder and have been tutoring up to 10 hours a week which has taken its toll on my research. 10 hours turned into other admin work and then I ended up working half days in an office along with the tutoring. I am very interested in the area I'm studying and everyone seems exciting about what I am doing - it's very modern and new and could change a few things in my field. But... maybe I'm not the person for the job.

I worked my butt off during my BA and got a high 1.1 and the scholarship and then once I got accepted to the PhD I lost interest in a few ways. I felt like I had accomplished everything I needed to - I got the scholarship, got accepted to the PhD, became a tutor, administrator etc. This year I even got some modules to lecture. But I can't help to feel that this gig is a bit too lonely for me. I'm a people person and find sitting in an office/ library from 9-5 is a bit much. I find I can do my research but after three months in the library during the summer I'm questioning whether it's for me. But I think that this in itself is too scary for me as I question then what the hell will I do and how the hell will I pay the scholarship back (as I won't be graduating).

I think I want to go back to college and do the MA in my field and then return to the PhD if and when I'm ready to. I also have an interest in a completely different subject (Psychology) and have ALWAYS wanted to do Medicine (probably for the wrong reasons). I also think I'd be good at PR and HR because of my good people skills. I feel like I'm wasting my personality in research. I love to lecture because I get that surge of interacting with people and performing, but I don't get that when I'm slogging in the library.

I'm considering just finishing the PhD as soon as I can. I've done a year of very, very mediocre work so maybe I should pull my socks up, grit my teeth and continue until I've earned it and then abandon academia.

The issue of academia is getting to me as well. I find that a lot of money is just poured into terrible places and that standards are pretty awful. I also HATE having to be fake to 'famous' academics even though I know they are awful people whose work I would never read or like. The niche circle of academia is also driving me nuts with constant competition and snobiness.

Sorry for my rant... just in a bad mood I suppose

Ross

I could have put my name on this....word for word my exact experience of my first two years.

I'm entering my fourth year now, so for what its worth;

I took on a lot of teaching over my first two years, in my second year I ended up doing hours in another college which ate completely from my research time. I took the teaching certificate in first year also, and had some module committments - I found myself resenting my topic more from my own frustration of bad time management.

I'm moving slowly on with the research now, and there are plenty who will tell you the same story - but dont discount it as time wasted. I'm at the stage where I'm starting to put out applications for work and a thesis alone just doesn't cut it any more. Teaching experience counts for a lot, especially now when your immediate work prospects will involve a heavy relief teaching load from retiring/seconded/absent faculty.

Starting fourth year, and I'm far from finished - I need more data, I need to write up my introductory chapters, but I've spent so much time obsessing over what I should have been doing, that I have the structure and logic straight in my head - you will be amazed what can come of disorder

'The fear' will hopefully hit you sonner than I got it, but you'll be more than capable of knocking it out when the time comes - and the result will pay off for the rest of your life.

pow wow · 17-09-2010 6:47am

Just want to add that the snootiness, flagrant waste of money, awkward colleagues and relationships etc. happens at most jobs (and probably all the ones I've had in my career!)

I think people have been a little hard on you so far - you're allowed to hate what you do sometimes. Some of us hate it most of the time. What are your plans after your PhD? Is academia always going to be the circle you move in? Given your fortunate funding circumstances and the fact that all is not yet lost (i.e. you haven't jacked it in so far) I'd be inclined to write, as others have suggested, the negative experiences you've had so far down to experience and stay where you are until either a) things improve, or b) you come up with a more concrete plan on what else you'd rather do. I think most people have several paths they 'wish' they'd taken - to leave the one you're on now for one that might not be a whole lot better would be a decision you can't really come back from.

Perception is half the battle. But then, I deferred my PhD because I'm not ready for academia just yet. For what it's worth I know my course tutor on my MA battled with the same kind of things you do with colleagues, but it didn't make her life miserable.

theredletter · 17-09-2010 10:52am

Aw, that's a nice one. Well to be honest there were some other details that I wasn't comfortable mentioning that made my case a little more understandable, but I didn't want to share them after a bad boards.ie experience.

You're right. I don't think academia is for me in certain ways. After attending around 6 conferences this year I just don't see me standing at one of the podiums trying to prove something to the audience. Maybe that's because I'm just at an early stage. I think it's natural, as you suggested, that we all hate our jobs sometimes. I don't hate my project, I just hate some of the things that go along with it. I suppose it is about perception as you said... I've decided to go see my Academic Advisor. I can always graduate with an M.Litt and not do the PhD, but to be honest I'd prefer to fight through this slump and come out with a better degree in the end.

Thanks again for all of the helpful comments and suggestions.

Do I just need a break?

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