The Fear

RedXIV

ok so up until 10 mins ago, i was daydreaming before falling asleep as i do. Then, for some reason, death popped into my head. And i realised how much i didn't want to die as i believe that once you die, thats it. And it was a very sobering thought, one which also woke me up completely. And its at times like this i can see why my father who is a religious man is not worried about this. any tips for facing the fear? Or am i alone in having it

Turtwig

Nope not you're alone, simply reading your post sent that chilling feeling through my heart, er limbic system. Supernatural or superstitious people in general tend to fear death less than those who don't believe in the supernatural.

Zillah

Death knows no mercy nor does it know hate. It is a faceless and terrible thing that will consume us all.

Sleep well.

The Mad Hatter

Malty_T wrote: »

Nope not you're alone, simply reading your post sent that chilling feeling through my heart, er limbic system. Supernatural or superstitious people in general tend to fear death less than those who don't believe in the supernatural.

Funny, I think I remember a study saying the opposite was true, surprisingly. Google doesn't seem to be helping me find it, though.

mikhail

I can't say I've a fear of being dead. (Dying, on other other hand, seems frequently to be boring and/or painful.)

I hope you can find some confort in something RedXIV, whether it's in knowing that what you do with this life counts as it's all there is, that in some sense you live on in your kids (if you have any), or in something religious.

Zillah

Doom doom doom

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqcn_TPu4qQ

The Mad Hatter

Zillah wrote: »

Doom doom doom

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqcn_TPu4qQ

I miss your Dib avatar, but that's still how I hear your voice.

Zillah

When did I have a Dib avatar? I don't remember this. It does sound like something I would do....

I am very glad you imagine me sounding like Dib though, that's great.

EDIT: Yeah ok, we can try this out. I suspect you might have been thinking of someone else though...

Mrmoe

RedXIV wrote: »

ok so up until 10 mins ago, i was daydreaming before falling asleep as i do. Then, for some reason, death popped into my head. And i realised how much i didn't want to die as i believe that once you die, thats it. And it was a very sobering thought, one which also woke me up completely. And its at times like this i can see why my father who is a religious man is not worried about this. any tips for facing the fear? Or am i alone in having it

Think of it as a blessing. You realise that we are finite and there will be nothing after we pop our clogs. It may sound corny but live everyday like it is your last. Don't be put off doing things. I pity religous people who waste so much of their time praying to nothing when they could be out enjoying themselves and doing good in the world.

amacachi

I'm not afraid of being dead, not so longer ago I looked forward to it as it happens. :pac: I spent far, far longer not living than living, so I don't fear being dead. Also, unless I somehow have a mishap and quite suddenly get into a vegetative state I don't see me having a long, drawn-out death.
Nothing to fear as far as I'm concerned, I don't see why the Christian logic doesn't work consistently, surely if life is just for getting into heaven it must be really, really hard to live life and enjoy the simple things when "life" is going to last for all eternity.

Cú Giobach

If death is the END, and there is nothing after this existence, then the fear of that, is the fear of nothing.
Buddists "crave" this non existence ie, escaping from the "wheel of life".
I'd be scared shítless at the thought some of the "heavens" as envisioned by many of the religious.
Ahh...The sweet embrace of nothingness.

Shenshen

RedXIV wrote: »

ok so up until 10 mins ago, i was daydreaming before falling asleep as i do. Then, for some reason, death popped into my head. And i realised how much i didn't want to die as i believe that once you die, thats it. And it was a very sobering thought, one which also woke me up completely. And its at times like this i can see why my father who is a religious man is not worried about this. any tips for facing the fear? Or am i alone in having it

I have to admit that this fear affected me a lot more while I still believed in heaven and hell and all that... look at it this way :

If there is an afterlife, you will one day wake up to it. There is absolutely no knowing if it's going to be nice, or ... well, hell.
And while you may have been a good Christian, what will happen if it turns out the Muslims had it right after all? Or what if you've done something that really offended whatever deity you actually come face to face with, without knowing at the time that it would offend?

Whereas if you accept that there is no such thing as an afterlife, what's there to worry about? You will just cease to exist, so you will not be able to sense or experience anything, no pain, no torment, just blissful non-existence.

Ush1

That's why the here and now is important because once you're dead it is the end. Enjoy what you can of life and leave a good impression on people, that's as close to living on as you'll get.

There is something beautiful about the ugly, cold, stark truth.

The Mad Hatter

Zillah wrote: »

When did I have a Dib avatar? I don't remember this. It does sound like something I would do....

I am very glad you imagine me sounding like Dib though, that's great.

EDIT: Yeah ok, we can try this out. I suspect you might have been thinking of someone else though...

It was years ago. I have no idea how or why I remember, but I'm quite certain.

TwoShedsJackson

Mark Twain wrote:

"I do not fear death, in view of the fact that I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it."

1

Dades

TwoShedsJackson wrote: »

Mark Twain wrote:

"I do not fear death, in view of the fact that I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it."

I was wondering when that (excellent) quote would appear!

I don't believe death is the end

Would be kinda nice if it was though, much more relaxing that way :pac:

Handsome Bob

Ever since relinquishing my faith it has been harder dealing with the grim reality of death. I find it a lot harder keeping it together at funerals now than I did when I was religious because now, you're not allowing yourself to think that you'll see the deceased again. It is a bitter pill to swallow.

Malari

My new favourite quote about death is Laurent Fignon's, who died recently:

"I do not want to die at 50 years old, but if it is incurable what can I do about it? I love life, I adore laughing, travelling, reading and eat well, like a good Frenchman. I do not fear death, I just don't want it!"

RedXIV

Guess I just like the way my mind can wander and I wouldn't like to sacrifice that. I'm one of those people that would probably freeze their heads if I thought i could live forever

Marcus.Aurelius

Richard Dawkins wrote:

We are going to die, and that makes us the lucky ones. Most people are never going to die because they are never going to be born. The potential people who could have been here in my place but who will in fact never see the light of day outnumber the sand grains of Arabia. Certainly those unborn ghosts include greater poets than Keats, scientists greater than Newton. We know this because the set of possible people allowed by our DNA so massively exceeds the set of actual people. In the teeth of these stupefying odds it is you and I, in our ordinariness, that are here.

After sleeping through a hundred million centuries we have finally opened our eyes on a sumptuous planet, sparkling with colour, bountiful with life. Within decades we must close our eyes again. Isn't it a noble, an enlightened way of spending our brief time in the sun, to work at understanding the universe and how we have come to wake up in it? This is how I answer when I am asked -- as I am surprisingly often -- why I bother to get up in the mornings. To put it the other way round, isn't it sad to go to your grave without ever wondering why you were born? Who, with such a thought, would not spring from bed, eager to resume discovering the world and rejoicing to be a part of it?

-- Richard Dawkins, excerpts from Chapter I, "The Anaesthetic of Familiarity," of Unweaving the Rainbow: Science, Delusion and the Appetite for Wonder (1998)

Boxoffrogs

For me, like many I suspect, it's not my own death that gives me much pause for thought, but the death of someone I care for, after all, I'll never experience any grief at my own departure.

I've long ago reconciled myself to the thought that when we are gone, well we're just gone but I can see why death is the tipping point for many people when it comes to faith and understand the amount of people who are converted when confronted by the death of a loved one or news that they themselves are about to die. For me, it comes down to one question, 'have you accepted your own mortality?'. I have, so no problem for me there but for the many who have not, their mortality is often the only thing that sends them scrambling for a belief in something more.

Dave!

diddledum wrote: »

For me, like many I suspect, it's not my own death that gives me much pause for thought, but the death of someone I care for, after all, I'll never experience any grief at my own departure.

I've long ago reconciled myself to the thought that when we are gone, well we're just gone but I can see why death is the tipping point for many people when it comes to faith and understand the amount of people who are converted when confronted by the death of a loved one or news that they themselves are about to die. For me, it comes down to one question, 'have you accepted your own mortality?'. I have, so no problem for me there but for the many who have not, their mortality is often the only thing that sends them scrambling for a belief in something more.

Good point! I can't say I'm preoccupied with the inevitability of my own death (perhaps I will become more acutely aware of this as I get older!), but I have yet to lose any close family members, and that's something that makes me worry from time to time. The last family member of mine that died was my grandmother, and that was when I was about 8. I can imagine I'll be in a bad way (naturally) when one of my parents dies.

mikhail

I saw this this afternoon, and it tickled me and reminded me of this thread:

Pygmalion

I'm one for the "don't really care" part.
I believe that when I die I'll just cease to exist, I imagine that's a hell of a lot more comforting than spending your life wondering whether you've pleased a jealous, angry God who can sentence you to eternal torture.

Dougla2

im planning on being buried somewhere near plants and trees the my body will give them nutrients and my corpse wont be completely worthless

Marcus.Aurelius

Every human before us has gone through death, why should we be afraid? If death is the end, it will only serve to put the final cap on what should have been our happiness, if we set out to accomplish something fulfilling.

I think that so long as I bequeath to the world more happiness than would have been the case had I not been here, then I have contributed rather than taken as so many faith-heads would. How can religion be as life-affirming as the reality of the end of human consciousness to serve as a reminder of how precious life really is?

Dougla2 wrote: »

im planning on being buried somewhere near plants and trees the my body will give them nutrients and my corpse wont be completely worthless

I'll give you €10 for it provided you promise not to ask me what I'm going to do with it.

Beeker

I don't fear death, I beleive it is the end and after you die you will no longer be aware that you ever existed in the first place. There is nothing to fear. I dont welcome the thought of it and hope it is still many years away, so in the mean time I try to enjoy my life to the fullest:)

MagicMarker

As other's have said, I'm not too concerned with my own death (yet).

But from time to time, and a lot more lately than usual, I find myself thinking about when the time comes that my mother/father etc pass on. Knowing that I'll never see them again. This genuinely is quite a horrible thought, and it does make me understand why so many would class themselves as religious.

But regarding one's own death, Epicurus said it best...

Why should I fear death? If I am, death is not. If death is, I am not. Why should I fear that which cannot exist when I do?

Gregor Samsa

I don't fear death as such, I'll cease to exist, so it's not for me to worry about. I do fear my loved ones dying - my mother died a few years ago, which was my first experience of such loss, and I'm certainly not looking foreward to it happening again.

My main fear regarding my death is leaving my daughter without a dad, so for that reason, I hope my death doesn't come at least until she's old enough to handle it.

All of this really just goes to show that death is only a tragedy for those still living.

roosh

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AXmzcroUmdU

Coriolanus

RedXIV wrote: »

ok so up until 10 mins ago, i was daydreaming before falling asleep as i do. Then, for some reason, death popped into my head. And i realised how much i didn't want to die as i believe that once you die, thats it. And it was a very sobering thought, one which also woke me up completely. And its at times like this i can see why my father who is a religious man is not worried about this. any tips for facing the fear? Or am i alone in having it

Actually, death is something I don't worry nearly so much about now.

As a child and young teenager I was literally tortured with thoughts of what would happen when I died. Would I be allowed into heaven etc (the whole last confession thing really freaked me, the way I saw it, if I was killed in an accident etc without benefit of a priest, I was spending a looong time in purgatory)).

Now, my mind is much more relaxed knowing I don't have to face St Peter at the pearly gates, or have my soul weighed and risk getting eaten by a crocodile or whatever the current flavour of the month is.

Goduznt Xzst

Whoever says they don't fear death (in reality, we are all talking about the act of dying, and not the act of being dead) is lying or has enough to distract them in their lives currently that they don't spend a lot of time thinking about it.

I'd imagine few here, including myself, have witnessed another human dying and seen the life drain from their eyes. I have good friends who where with others as they died from wasting illnesses and it changed them irrevocably. One who was in the margins religiously is now full on devout. Another, who I wouldn't consider an Atheist, speaks with a hate now towards God for causing that suffering and final death of their friend.

You should be scared of dying, because every day you get closer to it. People need a healthy fear of their impending journey into oblivion. I'd be damn sure you wouldn't have people choosing to waste their existence in cubicles fixing variables in excel spreadsheets if they imagined they could be maggot food the next day.

I wake up every day and love my life. I'm living somewhere now where every day is a holiday. People choose to spend their lives in dead end jobs, bored out of their skulls, drinking their weekends away only to go on Holiday to somewhere they'd actually like to be. I can never understand why they don't just move there.

Am I scared of death, hell yeah I am. But fuck me, has that fear ever motivated me to get the most out of my life now.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbNc7GzRSqM

Cú Giobach

Goduznt Xzst wrote: »

I wake up every day and love my life. I'm living somewhere now where every day is a holiday. People choose to spend their lives in dead end jobs, bored out of their skulls, drinking their weekends away only to go on Holiday to somewhere they'd actually like to be. I can never understand why they don't just move there.

+1

That's exactly what it's about.
The meaning of life is "The appreciation of life itself ".

Handsome Bob

Goduznt Xzst wrote: »

I wake up every day and love my life. I'm living somewhere now where every day is a holiday. People choose to spend their lives in dead end jobs, bored out of their skulls, drinking their weekends away only to go on Holiday to somewhere they'd actually like to be. I can never understand why they don't just move there.

Financial reasons? Family commitments?

Tigger

i don't fear death coming for me i fear him coming for my people
(i can anthramorphisise because this foerum is under "religion" for some reason)

Herbal Deity

I fear loved ones dying.

I don't fear my own death. I don't understand this. It's not like you're going to be around after your death to feel any pain or emotional turmoil or anything.

FionnMatthew

Slightly tangential to the discussion, but you all appear to be deathists.

http://www.nickbostrom.com/fable/dragon.html

Cú Giobach

With a serious facepalm, I have to admit I believe in death.

FionnMatthew

Cú Giobach wrote: »

With a serious facepalm, I have to admit I believe in death.

You believe in it as in, you believe it happens?

or

You believe in it as in, you believe it's necessary, worthwhile, good?

If the first case, you are facepalming yourself for nothing, because nobody suggested otherwise.

If the second case, why? It seems like Amish people facepalming themselves as they refuse medical treatment for terminal illnesses.

RedXIV

Maybe he means he believes in Death himself

Cú Giobach

I believe in it the same way I believe in gravity. :rolleyes:

FionnMatthew

Cú Giobach wrote: »

I believe in it the same way I believe in gravity. :rolleyes:

So why all the rolling of eyes and the facepalming?

Cú Giobach

FionnMatthew wrote: »

You believe in it as in, you believe it happens?

, you are facepalming yourself for nothing, because nobody suggested otherwise.

As there is no question of whether death happens or not and it is an inevitability, the only question being "life after death".
My comment "I believe in death", was not a serious one, consequently the "rolling eyes" and now another "facepalm".

FionnMatthew

ultimately, yes, it is as unavoidable as whatever end of the universe it is that the laws of physics dictate.

but the point of the article i linked to is that it is something over which we may, in our lifetimes, have more or less a choice, debarring fatal accidents, etc.

Goduznt Xzst

LZ5by5 wrote: »

Financial reasons? Family commitments?

...and then you die.

Bullshit! Unless you are trapped in a vicious poverty cycle you can achieve (or at least be on the path to) whatever you want in your lifetime while you have your health.

People build their own walls than sit inside them, twiddling their thumbs, telling themselves: "woe is me, there is NOTHING I can do to change
my sorry existence"... People have achieved their goals coming from much worse circumstances than "financial reasons" or "family commitments", which are just excuses.

Everyone has the ability to self-actualize, it's just the majority become comfortable in filling the role their parents, teachers, bosses, society, culture has decided for them. They receive constant encouragement that they are doing the right thing while always feeling that gnawing rot inside them telling them they aren't living the life they want, but the life others want for them.

The last 10 years of my life has had people constantly asking me "why did you choose this, coming from that" as if I'm supposed to be on some conveyor belt from birth, moving in a linear fashion, like they are. They chose this education, so they have to work this job, and live in this place, and marry this person, and have these kids, and then die. It doesn't compute that you can choose to step off, and change course with little to no effort.

I've heard all the excuses, and I'm sure many are fine to live a life telling themselves what they can't do. I couldn't. I need to be living a life now, and continually, so that when I'm lying on my death bed I can think "yeah, I'm happy with all of that"

Goduznt Xzst

Goduznt Xzst wrote: »

I've heard all the excuses,

...and none of them work? :eek:

Dades

Goduznt Xzst wrote: »

I've heard all the excuses, and I'm sure many are fine to live a life telling themselves what they can't do. I couldn't. I need to be living a life now, and continually, so that when I'm lying on my death bed I can think "yeah, I'm happy with all of that"

Bravo!

I take it you don't have four kids with their own lives, a dog, a house worth less than what you paid for, and a wife who is very close to her family and who doesn't want to rent pedalos in Santorini for the rest of her life? *

Of course people can help themselves but not recklessly or selfishly when they have responsibilities.


* Example only - not my situation!

Ickle Magoo

Herbal Deity wrote: »

I fear loved ones dying.

I don't fear my own death. I don't understand this. It's not like you're going to be around after your death to feel any pain or emotional turmoil or anything.

Yeah, I'd be far more fearful of a protracted and painful death than dying itself...

Zillah

Goduznt Xzst wrote: »

...and then you die.

Bullshit! Unless you are trapped in a vicious poverty cycle you can achieve (or at least be on the path to) whatever you want in your lifetime while you have your health.

People build their own walls than sit inside them, twiddling their thumbs, telling themselves: "woe is me, there is NOTHING I can do to change
my sorry existence"... People have achieved their goals coming from much worse circumstances than "financial reasons" or "family commitments", which are just excuses.

Everyone has the ability to self-actualize, it's just the majority become comfortable in filling the role their parents, teachers, bosses, society, culture has decided for them. They receive constant encouragement that they are doing the right thing while always feeling that gnawing rot inside them telling them they aren't living the life they want, but the life others want for them.

The last 10 years of my life has had people constantly asking me "why did you choose this, coming from that" as if I'm supposed to be on some conveyor belt from birth, moving in a linear fashion, like they are. They chose this education, so they have to work this job, and live in this place, and marry this person, and have these kids, and then die. It doesn't compute that you can choose to step off, and change course with little to no effort.

I've heard all the excuses, and I'm sure many are fine to live a life telling themselves what they can't do. I couldn't. I need to be living a life now, and continually, so that when I'm lying on my death bed I can think "yeah, I'm happy with all of that"

As I ponder my response I realise this is not the first time we have had an exchange of this sort. My tone in that post is much like how I would respond to you now; you speak about things in the idealised simplicity of someone who is not under the sort of pressures that you so casually dismiss. Many people literally cannot seek out the life they desire without abandoning people who love them, and ruining ventures that depend on them.

You and I might think that perhaps those sacrifices should be made, but to casually dismiss them as though they are trivial or non-existant is rather short sighted.

(and no, I don't know how I remembered a specific post from mid-09)

Goduznt Xzst

Dades wrote: »

I take it you don't have four kids with their own lives, a dog, a house worth less than what you paid for, and a wife who is very close to her family and who doesn't want to rent pedalos in Santorini for the rest of her life? *

Of course people can help themselves but not recklessly or selfishly when they have responsibilities.

You're right. I don't. But then I'd view a person who managed to build walls this high around them, whilst being unhappy with all of it, to of failed miserably in guiding their own existence.

I'm not going to argue the point much further. As I know plenty of people have convinced themselves they are "stuck" in their current situation in life, and don't like to be told it is their own fault. As an Irish person I've also noticed the propensity for communal mysery. Everyone likes to give someone a pat on the back when they have a good reason for failing at life.

Zillah wrote: »

you speak about things in the idealised simplicity of someone who is not under the sort of pressures that you so casually dismiss. Many people literally cannot seek out the life they desire without abandoning people who love them, and ruining ventures that depend on them.

People continually call it idealistic, but I am living it. My life has not been privilaged, I've just made choices that have enabled me to be continually moving towards what I feel would interest me most.

The section of your post that I've highlighted. At what point should a persons own personal mysery with their existence outweigh the feelings of others for them or the "ventures" they might ruin? Should they simply stomach it and then die because they will hurt too many peoples feelings or ruin their material investments?

This is precisely the kind of roles people write themselves into with social contracts. They can't comprehend that they've chosen to lock themselves into these roles, willingly. They can choose to break them, just as easily.

Abondoning people that do nothing to add to your own personal happiness is always an option. If you are miserable with being with a woman you chose or raising children you bore then I'm sorry, but you are no good to them anyway. Again, it's people following constructs imposed upon them by their society.