cost of keeping a suckler cow

tismesoitis

any one got any idea roughly what it costs to keep a cow + calf for the year? done our figures and reckon its about the 600 - 650 mark:eek: cost cutting needed me thinks!

BeeDI

tismesoitis wrote: »

any one got any idea roughly what it costs to keep a cow + calf for the year? done our figures and reckon its about the 600 - 650 mark:eek: cost cutting needed me thinks!

What's in that €600?

Are you including depreciation charge on machinery and buildings?
Or are you including just direct costs like feed, fert, vet, fuel, fencing, etc.

tismesoitis

all outgoings related to the farm inc insurance cost of maintaining machinery buildings etc did'nt inc depreciation mind

ellewood

yea, done my figures fewweeks ago and was shocked 600-650 is about right

fert E94/cow
silage 5 mth winter 9 bales /cow E166/c6w
spread slurry/agitate spread dung E90/cow
straw for winter E35/cow
vet/ a.i E90/cow
pedegree reg's E40/cow
misselanous E90/cow - hoof paring, scanning, fencing ect.

dosent include bank repayments, interest, deprecation, insurance, professional fees or any capital investment

thats to get cow from in calf - calf - wean the calf.

it dosent include a figure for mortality either which at 3% would be another E20

so 600-650 is not far out!

how are lads that only get E5-600 for weanlings make any money!!

blue5000

Those costs are frightening! I guess there is a bit of economy to be got with scale, on larger herds costs would be lower per cow.

I usually work it out by dividing total variable costs by the number of cows. Fixed costs eg insurance, diesel, interest etc. cannot easily be allocated to one enterprise on the farm.

Fertiliser costs posted above seem high, are you doing slurry yourself or getting a contractor in?

ellewood

yea scale would help, yea contravtor to do all slurry dung ect, fert seems high but ive 22 cows 19 calves 9 replacement hfrs and 3 or 4 yearling bulls on roughly 25 acres and i cut over 200 bales of silage off this 25 acres as well.
1/2 is new grass other half old grass but will have all new grass next few years - then start back and do the fields i done in 2005 again id love to hear how anybody's keeping cows for less, but theres not a whole lot i can cut back on. cows go in mid november in very good condition off grass and are restricted on silagesome straw till they calve and let out asap the calves bulls avg 450kg at 10 mths offcow and grass alone the hfrs avg 380kg theres no big costs for new sheds or machinery moneys put into good stock and grass but thats roughly the costs per cow!!
it wouldn't pay me to buy big tractor tank agitator dung spreader ect. to do 3-4 days work a year.

leg wax

jesus lads why did yea start this thread if the misses see this she will be out with the calculator, i dont know my costs this year but they have gone through the roof.

JohnBoy

@ellewood, that's some nice stocking for 25 acres, would you actually increase your margin though if you reduced your stocking level a bit, reduce some of your input maybe? turnover might be down, but if you can reduce costs by more than the turnover reduction you're still better off.


Also, how would feeding the cows hay stack up against silage+straw both in cost and performance terms?


Idle musings really, I'm just a couch farmer at the moment.

BeeDI

You have calculated the cost of a bale of silage at €18.44.
Expensive. Does it include the cost of fertilizer? You have accounted seperately for that! My calculation for bale silage cost is €16 including fertilizer, plastic, contractor to mow, bale and wrap, plus my own diesel to stack.
Straw @ €35 per cow down on top of that level of fertilizer and silage cost. :mad:
Slurry cost. Holy Mozes, your slurry contractor is doing nicely:pac:

24_7

what about the cost of keeping the yearlings and replacements. Are these included in the cost per cow or have they been kept separate.
I know we're not talking exact numbers here but they would add to the fertiliser, slurry and silage bill.
I'm in similar boat, cows, replacements, big fertiliser bill, and get contractor to slurry and cut silage.
Just wondering if its worthwhile rearing replacements, or just buy in bullying heifers or heifers in calf.

adne

Your a bulling with ur slurry costs.....I pay 125 a Bay for Agitation and Spreading and there is a good distance between shed and some of the land........

BeeDI

adne wrote: »

Your a bulling with ur slurry costs.....I pay 125 a Bay for Agitation and Spreading and there is a good distance between shed and some of the land........

And €90 a cow for paring hoofs and a bit of fencing:mad: At that cost, I'd knock the fence, and bid the lot of them God speed.

Username John

ellewood wrote: »

y

spread slurry/agitate spread dung E90/cow
straw for winter E35/cow

I think Ellewood's figures include dung as well - is this more expensive than slurry to put out?

Username John

BeeDI wrote: »

And €90 a cow for paring hoofs and a bit of fencing:mad: At that cost, I'd knock the fence, and bid the lot of them God speed.

To be fair - the 90/cow wasnt just hoof paring and fencing, it was 'miscellaneous' so could have included a lot more...

I think poor Ellewood is getting a lot of stick for being open with their figures. While tis easy to pick holes in other peoples figures, I dont see anyone else putting their breakdown of costs up to compare against
(And before anyone says why dont I - I dont have cattle, and for the few sheep I have, I dont have such a breakdown to be honest)

bbam

We looked at the price per weanlin produced to 9 months old since that's currently our sole enterprise.

€600 a head, which is being pushed up by the small herd number here..
One question on this...would you factor in the cost of replacment cows, I included 1/10th the cost of a replacment cow in each "per head weanlin costing", I was told this was wrong but surely it has to be factored in somewhere..

haybob

am I reading this wrong 9 bales per cow at a cost of €166 so thats so thats €18.50 per bale

The one thing I'd suggest is the purchase of a bull

ellewood wrote: »

yea, done my figures fewweeks ago and was shocked 600-650 is about right

fert E94/cow
silage 5 mth winter 9 bales /cow E166/c6w
spread slurry/agitate spread dung E90/cow
straw for winter E35/cow
vet/ a.i E90/cow
pedegree reg's E40/cow
misselanous E90/cow - hoof paring, scanning, fencing ect.

dosent include bank repayments, interest, deprecation, insurance, professional fees or any capital investment

thats to get cow from in calf - calf - wean the calf.

it dosent include a figure for mortality either which at 3% would be another E20

so 600-650 is not far out!

how are lads that only get E5-600 for weanlings make any money!!

leg wax

haybob wrote: »

am I reading this wrong 9 bales per cow at a cost of €166 so thats so thats €18.50 per bale

The one thing I'd suggest is the purchase of a bull

when i add in rental charges for land my bale came in at £19.90,

blue5000

bbam wrote: »

We looked at the price per weanlin produced to 9 months old since that's currently our sole enterprise.

€600 a head, which is being pushed up by the small herd number here..
One question on this...would you factor in the cost of replacment cows, I included 1/10th the cost of a replacment cow in each "per head weanlin costing", I was told this was wrong but surely it has to be factored in somewhere..

You'd have to allow for sales of cull cows as well

ellewood

the 600 odd quid pretty much includes everyting for the year spread out over the amount of cows so exactly per cow would be a small bit lower the fert includes grazing bulls and hfrs as well, the slurry/dung is not split between cows and hfrs. the fert dosent include fert for silage tho
cost of silage
3 bags 27-2.5 @300/ton=45/acre 10 bales acre
cut 17/acre
rake 11/acre
bale-chopped and wrap 6.50/bale
plastic 3/bale
draw in stack 1.50/bale
total 1st cut 18.30/bale total
2nd cut would be a small bit higher as not as many per acre
slurry
tank is un covered so is emptied twice a year once just before closed period and once end of jan
tank takes 1 day 8 hrs with 1700 gal tank to empty and spread @35/hour x twice is 560 + agitate twice 6 hrs = 210
the figure for dung is an estimate as i havent sprear any yet and theres 2 yers to spread now so i put in 10 hrs for 1 spreader + 10 hrs for loader both at 35/hr comes to 700

the miss of 90.00 is made up of all other expensises for the year to include
scanning 100, hoof's 60, fencing 300, replace gates, water pipes trough's 300, repairs to the small bit of machinery/sheds i have 300, diesel for jeep + tractor 500, fees- accountant 250 teagasc/reps 200, insurance 500, hedge cutting 200. some of these will be more or less every year so E90 average.
i know it includes everyting not just the direct cost to each cow but thats the way i work it out all expensises for year-there all been paid to keep the cows-less all the income from stock - all hfr and bull sales, cull cows ect = profit for the year.

ellewood

haybob wrote: »

am I reading this wrong 9 bales per cow at a cost of €166 so thats so thats €18.50 per bale

The one thing I'd suggest is the purchase of a bull

yea, i actually bought a very good bull this spring had'nt intended to but a good bull came up at the right money and since i had over 20 cows it was justified.

well thats only my estimate of me costs for the year id love to hear how much any1else is doing it for and more importantly how..

blue5000

I think the big cost on suckler farms is wintering the cow, silage is the big one in this.

I think we need to look at rape/kale or turnips to shorten the winter. It looks like N prices are going up 30% next year as well.

Clover and a slightly reduced stocking rate might be worth looking at too.

Is anyone wintering cows on Hay? I think there would be less bales per acre because its dryer, you'd really only save on plastic. But it is a pain in the arse when it goes in slats. And weather dependent too.

Any thoughts?

BeeDI

blue5000 wrote: »

I think the big cost on suckler farms is wintering the cow, silage is the big one in this.

I think we need to look at rape/kale or turnips to shorten the winter. It looks like N prices are going up 30% next year as well.

Clover and a slightly reduced stocking rate might be worth looking at too.

Is anyone wintering cows on Hay? I think there would be less bales per acre because its dryer, you'd really only save on plastic. But it is a pain in the arse when it goes in slats. And weather dependent too.

Any thoughts?

I know a guy, with 40 cows wintered on slats. Belgian blue stock bull. Feeds only hay, but he chops the bales in a straw chopper at feeding time. He reckons, he has no bother with it getting into the slats.
He has an aeration system in the slurry tanks. Says he never has to agitate. Just spread the slurry. Leves a foot of water in the bottom of the tanks before the cows go in.

leg wax

blue5000 wrote: »

I think the big cost on suckler farms is wintering the cow, silage is the big one in this.

I think we need to look at rape/kale or turnips to shorten the winter. It looks like N prices are going up 30% next year as well.

Clover and a slightly reduced stocking rate might be worth looking at too.

Is anyone wintering cows on Hay? I think there would be less bales per acre because its dryer, you'd really only save on plastic. But it is a pain in the arse when it goes in slats. And weather dependent too.

Any thoughts?

if you already have slats and accommodation would it still pay you to set crops outside for cows, since the land is out of production for a whole year,i find it hard to believe that farmers got carried away down my part of the country building sheds and now they cannot fill them, and here we are trying to figure out is it more cost effective to winter the cow out because we cant afford to bring the grub into her.i have grown kale this year for the first time but its for the weanlings that were not suitable for export and all the spring born calfs.

blue5000

yeah I put 3ac of kale in too, and it will be for heifer weanlings. I'm also doing maize, which is looking good so far. But 18 or 19 yoyo for bbs is getting too expensive for dry suckler cows. PPL who built palaces for cows just because there was a grant to be got will have trouble filling them soon I think.

pakalasa

€700 the cost of keeping a suckler cow, according to John Shirley in todays Farming Independent. Also Lim X Fr cows are more profitable than Char X Lim. It's the extra milk.

moy83

pakalasa wrote: »

€700 the cost of keeping a suckler cow, according to John Shirley in todays Farming Independent. Also Lim X Fr cows are more profitable than Char X Lim. It's the extra milk.

I must do a doodle on what its costing us , we have mixture of different stuff so its tricky .
I hope its nowhere near 700 though
Is there a list of all the costs anywhere

bbam

blue5000 wrote: »

You'd have to allow for sales of cull cows as well

We did allow for cull prices.
Included the cost of the bull.
Transport to mart.

I'd easily say its €700 -800 to get a weanling to the mart which is the real price lads should know 100% as this is their product. .
Last Saturday I saw the majority of heifer weanlings go through the ring for this.
I heard the bill prices were little better.
Other than handsome SFP this is an unsustainable business. Yet 90% of suckler farmers seem keen to continue.

pakalasa

Some breakdown here of costs.
http://www.irishexaminer.com/archives/2013/0620/features/single-farm-payment-uncertainty-intensifies-suckler-cow-costs-debate-234544.html

moy83

We should have a thread for how to reduce costs for the suckler cow . Its one of the big things we can control . Hopefully there are some things that can be cut back on from that 700

ellewood

moy83 wrote: »

We should have a thread for how to reduce costs for the suckler cow . Its one of the big things we can control . Hopefully there are some things that can be cut back on from that 700

Id second that and the lads that can keep a cow for the year for 3-400 costs show us how they do it, because its getting too expensive to keep them all year

crackcrack30

Suggestion 1, Should they be contained today & yesterday on a paddock to lessen the damage to ground ?......we still have a nice bit of grass here as i'm understocked, but hoping to keep them out till near November..

reilig

ellewood wrote: »

fert E94/cow
silage 5 mth winter 9 bales /cow E166/c6w
spread slurry/agitate spread dung E90/cow
straw for winter E35/cow
vet/ a.i E90/cow
pedegree reg's E40/cow
misselanous E90/cow - hoof paring, scanning, fencing ect.

Sorry for quoting you Ellewood, but you were the only person to quote costs.

Some ways that costs can be reduced:

- Spread slurry in spring instead of after silage cutting or autumn to reduce the amount of fertilizer that you buy.
- Ensure that ph levels are correct by spreading lime to get the most use out of fertilizer spread. 80% of suckler farm's need lime in Ireland according to Teagasc.
- Import pig slurry to reduce the amount of fertilizer needed.
- Ensure that tanks are thinned out with water or pig slurry before agitating to reduce cost. €90 per cow quoted is excessive. Ours works out at €35 per cow (60 cow herd) and includes spreading 40,000 gallons of pig slurry.
- Slats and bedded creep areas for calves instead of bedded sheds. Our straw bill this year is €200 for 60 cows and we will have some left over. Also instead of cleaning out creeps and calving pens every week, let a good soakage base build up and disinfect it weekly with lime - saves a lot of straw.
- Improve herd health to reduce vet bills. Get your vet to do out a whole herd health plan and stick to it. Disinfect everything twice!
- misc - cull cows with bad feet, do your own fencing, weigh up the cost of owning machinery against a contractor, price around for contractors, insurance, animal medicine/dose etc
- Wean calves timely so that cows have time to put on condition while on grass before housing - this ensures that you don't have to feed meal to cows.
- Forward graze weinlings through a creep gate or electric fence to save on creep feeding meal.
- Set up a paddock system instead of feeding sucklers all in one block so that they can be moved to fresh grass regularly.
- Reseed to have new grass to graze cattle on and to have new and fast growing silage grass.
- Use 5 star AI to produce better calves and ultimately have better prices.
- Cull cows that have bad calves, have fertility problems, are dangerous, etc.
- Do an audit on all expenses. Can electricity costs bee reduced by fitting led lights or bulbs? Can water charges or pump electrical costs be reduced by rainwater harvesting? Do you get 2 insurance quotes? Are machines and buildings over valued? Can you buy bulk meal instead of bags? Are you a member of a buyers group?

I'm sure that there are a raft of other measures that people can suggest?

bbam

reilig wrote: »

Sorry for quoting you Ellewood, but you were the only person to quote costs.

Some ways that costs can be reduced:

- Spread slurry in spring instead of after silage cutting or autumn to reduce the amount of fertilizer that you buy.
- Ensure that ph levels are correct by spreading lime to get the most use out of fertilizer spread. 80% of suckler farm's need lime in Ireland according to Teagasc.
- Import pig slurry to reduce the amount of fertilizer needed.
- Ensure that tanks are thinned out with water or pig slurry before agitating to reduce cost. €90 per cow quoted is excessive. Ours works out at €35 per cow (60 cow herd) and includes spreading 40,000 gallons of pig slurry.
- Slats and bedded creep areas for calves instead of bedded sheds. Our straw bill this year is €200 for 60 cows and we will have some left over. Also instead of cleaning out creeps and calving pens every week, let a good soakage base build up and disinfect it weekly with lime - saves a lot of straw.
- Improve herd health to reduce vet bills. Get your vet to do out a whole herd health plan and stick to it. Disinfect everything twice!
- misc - cull cows with bad feet, do your own fencing, weigh up the cost of owning machinery against a contractor, price around for contractors, insurance, animal medicine/dose etc
- Wean calves timely so that cows have time to put on condition while on grass before housing - this ensures that you don't have to feed meal to cows.
- Forward graze weinlings through a creep gate or electric fence to save on creep feeding meal.
- Set up a paddock system instead of feeding sucklers all in one block so that they can be moved to fresh grass regularly.
- Reseed to have new grass to graze cattle on and to have new and fast growing silage grass.
- Use 5 star AI to produce better calves and ultimately have better prices.
- Cull cows that have bad calves, have fertility problems, are dangerous, etc.
- Do an audit on all expenses. Can electricity costs bee reduced by fitting led lights or bulbs? Can water charges or pump electrical costs be reduced by rainwater harvesting? Do you get 2 insurance quotes? Are machines and buildings over valued? Can you buy bulk meal instead of bags? Are you a member of a buyers group?

I'm sure that there are a raft of other measures that people can suggest?

How about the cost of a bull Vs AI ? Is there merrit in that argument.
Do lads do their own AI? How does that effect costs and repeat numbers?

moy83

Reilig has a fine list thrown up there to be starting with .
Getting all calves born when suits you and be aiming to have them ready altogether for a particular market . We have all year around calving which is a waste of time in every way .
Would a bull in for seven weeks do the trick for compact calving ? Is it too harsh to cull the cows that dont come in calf in this period or hold them over for bulling in the next round , say if you have spring and autumn calving ?

hugo29

moy83 wrote: »

We should have a thread for how to reduce costs for the suckler cow . Its one of the big things we can control . Hopefully there are some things that can be cut back on from that 700

best idea i have heard in a while

moy83

Would it be possible to breed smaller lighter cows that will work well with a bull to still throw a calf that will still grade well ? I'd guess from ours that its 50/50 good calves from plain cows and visa versa of not so good calves off cows that have big frames .
I read somewhere that a suckler farmer in the UK reckoned if his cows were 50 kg smaller he would save £75 a year keeping her .

Sam Kade

moy83 wrote: »

Would it be possible to breed smaller lighter cows that will work well with a bull to still throw a calf that will still grade well ? I'd guess from ours that its 50/50 good calves from plain cows and visa versa of not so good calves off cows that have big frames .
I read somewhere that a suckler farmer in the UK reckoned if his cows were 50 kg smaller he would save £75 a year keeping her .

I saw on a website only last night where some UK farmer is planning on using jersey cows crossed with British blues for suckling. He did plenty research. I wouldn't like to chance it.

moy83

Sam Kade wrote: »

I saw on a website only last night where some UK farmer is planning on using jersey cows crossed with British blues for suckling. He did plenty research. I wouldn't like to chance it.

A charlaois off one of their heifer calves could be a nice one .
The british blue and blonde are smashing cattle especially their blondes .
I dont think the jerseys carcass size would be much help in getting a consistant calf size I would prefer british fr in the mix

manjou

reilig wrote: »

Sorry for quoting you Ellewood, but you were the only person to quote costs.

Some ways that costs can be reduced:

- Spread slurry in spring instead of after silage cutting or autumn to reduce the amount of fertilizer that you buy.
- Ensure that ph levels are correct by spreading lime to get the most use out of fertilizer spread. 80% of suckler farm's need lime in Ireland according to Teagasc.
- Import pig slurry to reduce the amount of fertilizer needed.
- Ensure that tanks are thinned out with water or pig slurry before agitating to reduce cost. €90 per cow quoted is excessive. Ours works out at €35 per cow (60 cow herd) and includes spreading 40,000 gallons of pig slurry.
- Slats and bedded creep areas for calves instead of bedded sheds. Our straw bill this year is €200 for 60 cows and we will have some left over. Also instead of cleaning out creeps and calving pens every week, let a good soakage base build up and disinfect it weekly with lime - saves a lot of straw.
- Improve herd health to reduce vet bills. Get your vet to do out a whole herd health plan and stick to it. Disinfect everything twice!
- misc - cull cows with bad feet, do your own fencing, weigh up the cost of owning machinery against a contractor, price around for contractors, insurance, animal medicine/dose etc
- Wean calves timely so that cows have time to put on condition while on grass before housing - this ensures that you don't have to feed meal to cows.
- Forward graze weinlings through a creep gate or electric fence to save on creep feeding meal.
- Set up a paddock system instead of feeding sucklers all in one block so that they can be moved to fresh grass regularly.
- Reseed to have new grass to graze cattle on and to have new and fast growing silage grass.
- Use 5 star AI to produce better calves and ultimately have better prices.
- Cull cows that have bad calves, have fertility problems, are dangerous, etc.
- Do an audit on all expenses. Can electricity costs bee reduced by fitting led lights or bulbs? Can water charges or pump electrical costs be reduced by rainwater harvesting? Do you get 2 insurance quotes? Are machines and buildings over valued? Can you buy bulk meal instead of bags? Are you a member of a buyers group?

I'm sure that there are a raft of other measures that people can suggest?

All good ideas doing them at moment.Also get cows out as early as possible onto grass that has built up over winter. Dont close up silage ground till grass starts to grow as u will run tight on grass.Walk grassland every week to measure grass as you may be growing more grass than you think so can reduce fertliser bill.No need for creep if you have enough grass as calves wont eat grass if meal is available.

Markcheese

A few years ago Charolais / jersey cross won best beef in a blind tasting competion in the uk... (doesn't make it most profitable though)

With the price of a weanling less than the overall price of producing it, it's a Pity lads can't just collect the SFP and get rid of the stock ...

Muckit

reilig wrote: »

I'm sure that there are a raft of other measures that people can suggest?

In my opinion you have missed out on the most crucial ones:

Having a compact calving herd. All cows should be calved down in 12weeks. By doing this you are basically synchronising everything else (stock wise) that will happen on the farm. It will make every other operation much easier to manage as you are focusing on one job at a time. Doing so will ensure it is done correctly and to a high level and efficiently. Just think of all the other things that have to happen on a suckler farm

• calving
• tagging
• debudding
• breeding
• dosing
• creep grazing (and mealing:rolleyes: All calves same size so better able to fight their corner at the trough)
• weaning
• Selling

If calves are not the same size, then it is down to breeding. The best breeding cows are easily identifiable, but more crucially so are the poorer performers that need to get the gate. These are dragging down your bottom line.

A calf per cow per year (or more precisely a calf per cow every 365 days)

When it comes to breeding time, those that fail to go in calve after two cycles need to go. They are passengers and surplus to requirements. Every cycle they are not in calf or repeat is costing money, not alone what they are eating, but also the later calving date means kg of calf lost compared to if they went in calf first or second time. You can put a figure on this of approx €2.20/day. (that's at a conservative average liveweight gain of 1kg/day X 55KO%@ beef price €4)


Making good quality silage
Having quality silage should be top priority with high DMD. Lower DMD and lower DM silage means a cow will need more of it to be kept in the same condition. You will need less silage if you make good quality silage. Less silage means less money given to the contractor. It means less land closed for silage, which leaves more ground left to be grazed. Silage ground is closed for 6-8weeks, so the less that is left out of grazing for this length of time+ allowing for aftergrass of 2-3weeks) That's potentially 10weeks!! Do the figures on this lost productivity:eek:

Keeping pastures weed free
You talk weeds to suckler farmers and the first one will be the rush, then the dock, thistle and nettle. Many thing that if they gert rid of these, they are one the pig's back, but examine the swarth and you'd find loads of others like buttercup, dandelion etc etc, they are unproductive and stopping ryegrass from growing.

A sprayer should be top priority for every livestock farmer. You can effectively double production for the swarth by eliminating weeds at a fraction of what it cost to spread bag fertiliser. Now spread your fertiliser and look at all the extra grass you will grow and then convert this into the extra kg of gain you will put on your calves from additional quality milk.

I'd safely say their are more livestock farmers with slurry tankers and agitators than those that have sprayers. That's the guts of €5-10000 tied up in machinery that will deliver only a fraction of the value for money that a sprayer will bring.

Reseeding
Only after all these factors are taken into account and rectified should reseeding be done.

Now we're making money!!

Sami23

ellewood wrote: »

yea scale would help, yea contravtor to do all slurry dung ect, fert seems high but ive 22 cows 19 calves 9 replacement hfrs and 3 or 4 yearling bulls on roughly 25 acres and i cut over 200 bales of silage off this 25 acres as well.
1/2 is new grass other half old grass but will have all new grass next few years - then start back and do the fields i done in 2005 again id love to hear how anybody's keeping cows for less, but theres not a whole lot i can cut back on. cows go in mid november in very good condition off grass and are restricted on silagesome straw till they calve and let out asap the calves bulls avg 450kg at 10 mths offcow and grass alone the hfrs avg 380kg theres no big costs for new sheds or machinery moneys put into good stock and grass but thats roughly the costs per cow!!
it wouldn't pay me to buy big tractor tank agitator dung spreader ect. to do 3-4 days work a year.

That's some amount of stock to be keeping on 25 acres AND get 200 bales off it each year. Fair play. How do you detect cows in heat so efficiently for AI to keep tight calving interval ?

How many do you keep for the winter ?

adne

ellewood wrote: »

yea scale would help, yea contravtor to do all slurry dung ect, fert seems high but ive 22 cows 19 calves 9 replacement hfrs and 3 or 4 yearling bulls on roughly 25 acres and i cut over 200 bales of silage off this 25 acres as well.
1/2 is new grass other half old grass but will have all new grass next few years - then start back and do the fields i done in 2005 again id love to hear how anybody's keeping cows for less, but theres not a whole lot i can cut back on. cows go in mid november in very good condition off grass and are restricted on silagesome straw till they calve and let out asap the calves bulls avg 450kg at 10 mths offcow and grass alone the hfrs avg 380kg theres no big costs for new sheds or machinery moneys put into good stock and grass but thats roughly the costs per cow!!
it wouldn't pay me to buy big tractor tank agitator dung spreader ect. to do 3-4 days work a year.

Please tell-me how you to keep 22 cows, 19 calves and 13 other stock on 25 acres and still get 200 bales a year from it.

Dampintheattic

adne wrote: »

Please tell-me how you to keep 22 cows, 19 calves and 13 other stock on 25 acres and still get 200 bales a year from it.

And into the bargain, get bull calves to average 450kgs at 10 months plus heifers 380kgs. No meals involved.

pakalasa

Nobody has mentioned cull cow value either. Ideally you should have a replacement plan in place that keeps the age profile of the cows young and healthy. Cull then before cows get too old. Older cows are more likely to get sick and die. It is easier to put on condition on younger cows too.

ellewood

reilig wrote: »

Sorry for quoting you Ellewood, but you were the only person to quote costs.

Some ways that costs can be reduced:

- Spread slurry in spring instead of after silage cutting or autumn to reduce the amount of fertilizer that you buy.
- Ensure that ph levels are correct by spreading lime to get the most use out of fertilizer spread. 80% of suckler farm's need lime in Ireland according to Teagasc.
- Import pig slurry to reduce the amount of fertilizer needed.
- Ensure that tanks are thinned out with water or pig slurry before agitating to reduce cost. €90 per cow quoted is excessive. Ours works out at €35 per cow (60 cow herd) and includes spreading 40,000 gallons of pig slurry.
- Slats and bedded creep areas for calves instead of bedded sheds. Our straw bill this year is €200 for 60 cows and we will have some left over. Also instead of cleaning out creeps and calving pens every week, let a good soakage base build up and disinfect it weekly with lime - saves a lot of straw.
- Improve herd health to reduce vet bills. Get your vet to do out a whole herd health plan and stick to it. Disinfect everything twice!
- misc - cull cows with bad feet, do your own fencing, weigh up the cost of owning machinery against a contractor, price around for contractors, insurance, animal medicine/dose etc
- Wean calves timely so that cows have time to put on condition while on grass before housing - this ensures that you don't have to feed meal to cows.
- Forward graze weinlings through a creep gate or electric fence to save on creep feeding meal.
- Set up a paddock system instead of feeding sucklers all in one block so that they can be moved to fresh grass regularly.
- Reseed to have new grass to graze cattle on and to have new and fast growing silage grass.
- Use 5 star AI to produce better calves and ultimately have better prices.
- Cull cows that have bad calves, have fertility problems, are dangerous, etc.
- Do an audit on all expenses. Can electricity costs bee reduced by fitting led lights or bulbs? Can water charges or pump electrical costs be reduced by rainwater harvesting? Do you get 2 insurance quotes? Are machines and buildings over valued? Can you buy bulk meal instead of bags? Are you a member of a buyers group?

I'm sure that there are a raft of other measures that people can suggest?

No bother Reilig the reason I put them up was hoping others would put up theres so I could compare and see where costs were too high as 1 example in the slurry quote of E90.00 that included spread and agitate but it also included loading and spreading of dung every year as well slurry, on its own is for a 40ft tank empied 3 times a year costs E200 each empty/spread so E600/year or E30/cow wintered
I included every cost that it was costing me down to the new handel for the scrub/shovel

ellewood

Sami23 wrote: »

That's some amount of stock to be keeping on 25 acres AND get 200 bales off it each year. Fair play. How do you detect cows in heat so efficiently for AI to keep tight calving interval ?

How many do you keep for the winter ?

When I was doing Ai all I used was tail paint - paint gone in the morning when checked even if not seeing bulling - up for ai

Last winter I kept 19 cows 4 in calf replacement heifers a stock bull and 13 weanlings

ellewood

adne wrote: »

Please tell-me how you to keep 22 cows, 19 calves and 13 other stock on 25 acres and still get 200 bales a year from it.

I have 22 cows 21 calves, stock bull, 2 yearling bulls and 5 replacement heifers on it this year and 140 bales cut off it in a bad grass growing year this year and id consider that under stocked I have 32 cows and calves on another rented farm with 24 acres grazable and 2 acres of rough grazing

ellewood

Dampintheattic wrote: »

And into the bargain, get bull calves to average 450kgs at 10 months plus heifers 380kgs. No meals involved.

There all well bred charolais ICBF weighings last year showed 1.7kg gain from birth for the best of them but all around 1.5/day
All from grass and milk
Id be of the opinion that if you havent a FebuaryMarch calf into around 400kgs+ by November without a creep feeder you havent a hope of covering the cost of keeping the cow from sale price of the calf.

hugo29

ellewood wrote: »

There all well bred charolais ICBF weighings last year showed 1.7kg gain from birth for the best of them but all around 1.5/day
All from grass and milk
Id be of the opinion that if you havent a FebuaryMarch calf into around 400kgs+ by November without a creep feeder you havent a hope of covering the cost of keeping the cow from sale price of the calf.

Jayus Elle, you should be on the journal as an example to us all, not that farm in grange,

hugo29

ellewood wrote: »

There all well bred charolais ICBF weighings last year showed 1.7kg gain from birth for the best of them but all around 1.5/day
All from grass and milk
Id be of the opinion that if you havent a FebuaryMarch calf into around 400kgs+ by November without a creep feeder you havent a hope of covering the cost of keeping the cow from sale price of the calf.

Can I ask what CH bull you use and what cow type you use