Vatican guards....

Onesimus

I was wondering if anyone here could tell me what the process is? I was pondering this for a while, how do you become a guard of the pope? the ones that carry spears and have stripey clothes.

Ghost Buster

Onesimus wrote: »

I was wondering if anyone here could tell me what the process is? I was pondering this for a while, how do you become a guard of the pope? the ones that carry spears and have stripey clothes.

You mean nother than a fondness for cuckoo clocks, fine chocolate and good banking?:)
Seriously though i believe that aside of their almost ceremonial facade they are genuine highly trained and efficient soldiers.

PDN

Onesimus wrote: »

I was wondering if anyone here could tell me what the process is? I was pondering this for a while, how do you become a guard of the pope? the ones that carry spears and have stripey clothes.

I think it helps if you're from Switzerland. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_Guard

Onesimus

Ghost Buster wrote: »

You mean nother than a fondness for cuckoo clocks, fine chocolate and good banking?:)
Seriously though i believe that aside of their almost ceremonial facade they are genuine highly trained and efficient soldiers.

*yawn* are you not supposed to be out celebrating your junior results?

Benny_Cake

If you mean the Swiss Guards, they are required to be male citizens of Switzerland,who are Catholic,and who have completed all training in the Swiss army. Aside from the medieval weaponry on display, they are also equipped with the latest small arms in use by the Swiss army. The Vatican also has a police force, or gendarmerie, in which membership is restricted to Italian citizens. Hope you weren't planning on signing up!

Fattes

Not only do you have to be Swiss and a good Catholic, yoiu have to be from a specific Canton in Switzerland.

So unless you can document the above forget about it.

Its called the Swiss Guard for a reason

greyheron

I'd love to be a Swiss Guard. I think I would do it for nothing! Get your food and lodgings paid for, and you guard the Pope. I would want a nice pension though when I retire!

I think the Pope should introduce a foreign legion for non-Swiss nationals. He might need it if things heat up.

Ghost Buster

Onesimus wrote: »

*yawn* are you not supposed to be out celebrating your junior results?

Explain please.
The first sentence suggests in a light hearted manner they must be Swiss.
The second is what it is. Dont let the ceremonial dress fool you. They are well trained soldiers.
I resent your rude sarcastic insinuation that Im immature or juvenile and would appreciate an apology.

PDN

Ghost Buster wrote: »

Explain please.
The first sentence suggests in a light hearted manner they must be Swiss.
The second is what it is. Dont let the ceremonial dress fool you. They are well trained soldiers.
I resent your rude sarcastic insinuation that Im immature or juvenile and would appreciate an apology.

Agreed.

I thought Ghost Buster's response was witty and appropriate.

Onesimus, please remember not to attack the poster.

Onesimus

Ghost Buster wrote: »

Explain please.
The first sentence suggests in a light hearted manner they must be Swiss.
The second is what it is. Dont let the ceremonial dress fool you. They are well trained soldiers.
I resent your rude sarcastic insinuation that Im immature or juvenile and would appreciate an apology.

Sorry Ghost buster, I apologise, nothing justifies my mean reply.

JonJoeDali

The Swiss Guards all speak seven languages too.

Baggio1

i did see a documentary about them a while back, was fasinating for sure, yeahh these guys dont mess about dont be fooled by michael angelo's desighned gear that they wear, they are veyry solid soldiers, and yes have to be from that part of switzserland and be catholic etc.

sadly as alluded to there, yes things will heat up, am convinced Benedict is the pope spoken of in fatima by our lady, who will have to leave Rome when revolution comes, he'lll be martyred in a foreighn country, its sad for sure, but all the liberals and rebels will be happy,, but then they'll get a world with no pope and all the evils that will come with that,,, including an anti pope/ false prophet of revelations who'll bring all religeons together in one false movement, so as they say...watch this space!

ciao'....Baggio..

prinz

Just listening to the BBC coverage of the visit to the UK there and they mentioned that a number of the secret service men-in-black types running along with the popemobile are actually swiss guards. As mentioned before, you have to be from an area of Switzerland, Catholic and be highly trained as a soldier. Most of the time we see the lads out in ceremonial gear, but IIRC most of the time they are doing high-tech personal protection in regular suits etc. They mean business.

Fattes

Ok did a little Digging on this and the Vatican Swiss guard is below,

The swiss guards earned a huge reputation during hte French Revolutin defending the King and Queen at the Tuileries Palace over 600 where killed and this is imortalised in the Lion of Lucerne statue.


Swiss Guard for the Vaticans Entry Requirments.

Recruits to the guards must be Catholic, single males with Swiss Citinzenship who have completed basic training with the Swiss Military (National Service is compulsary in Switzerland adn will be done between the ages of 18-20 for first call up) and can obtain certificates of good conduct. Recruits must have a professional degree or high school diploma and must be between 19 and 30 years of age and at least 174 cm (5 ft 9 in) tall

Subtle Troll

In any real country their recruitment stipulations would be illegal.

Its racist and discriminates on religion, but that is the least of the evils coming out of catholicism.

alex73

Subtle Troll wrote: »

In any real country their recruitment stipulations would be illegal.

Its racist and discriminates on religion, but that is the least of the evils coming out of catholicism.

????????????? Where do you get off? The tradition goes back way beyond when the vatican became a state. Its not racist in anyway. But as usual we get the ignorant posts from people who know little about the church.

Ghost Buster

alex73 wrote: »

????????????? Where do you get off? The tradition goes back way beyond when the vatican became a state. Its not racist in anyway. But as usual we get the ignorant posts from people who know little about the church.

Irelands High Kings would traditionally be bathed in a vat with a few freshly severed horses heads. I'd love to see Mary Mc Aleese or Brian Cowen giving that a go. Ah I do shudder a little when poor behaviour is excused as traditional or cultural. And less of the generalising about how much different people know about religions. Most of the former catholics turned atheist or agnostics that I know seem to know quite a bit about their former religion which has lead to where they are today. I know substantially more than most of my culturally catholic friends and relations.

alex73

Ghost Buster wrote: »

Irelands High Kings would traditionally be bathed in a vat with a few freshly severed horses heads. I'd love to see Mary Mc Aleese or Brian Cowen giving that a go. Ah I do shudder a little when poor behaviour is excused as traditional or cultural. And less of the generalising about how much different people know about religions. Most of the former catholics turned atheist or agnostics that I know seem to know quite a bit about their former religion which has lead to where they are today. I know substantially more than most of my culturally catholic friends and relations.

Lets get something clear... Swiss guards has nothing to do with the Faith of the Catholic church.... they are Guards who come from a region in Switzerland. They come to Rome speaking several languages and this is part helps them in the Vatican.

Most of the Guards the police the Vatican are Italian Police, you seem the parked outside.

Subtle Troll

alex73 wrote: »

????????????? Where do you get off? The tradition goes back way beyond when the vatican became a state. Its not racist in anyway. But as usual we get the ignorant posts from people who know little about the church.

Except for the fact that they discriminate based on race.

PDN

Subtle Troll wrote: »

Except for the fact that they discriminate based on race.

Actually they don't. They discriminate based on place of birth, so you can be of any race (black, gypsy, chinese etc) so long as you are born in a particular region of Switzerland.

You might as well accuse the Irish soccer team of being racist.

hinault

I think it would be very foolish to assume that just because they wear medieval regalia that these Guards do not mean business.
They're extremely professional and thorough.

I've visited the Vatican twice :

My wife and I got married in Rome and because we got married in Rome, newly weds are invited to attend the Pope's Wednesday audience at the Vatican.

Before the audience we presented our documentation to the Swiss Guards and Roman security.
We were subjected to a full body search and had to answer several questions before being allowed to sit within 10 metres of the Pope.
I thought that this was a bit over the top until I realised that we were going to actually meet the Pope in person.
It was only then did I realise the reasons for the searches and questions.

At the audience, I asked one of them if I could get a photograph with him in his full regalia : he basically told me where to go, explaining "I'm too busy, can't you see I'm on duty".
Which was fair enough I suppose!

Subtle Troll

PDN wrote: »

Actually they don't. They discriminate based on place of birth, so you can be of any race (black, gypsy, chinese etc) so long as you are born in a particular region of Switzerland.

You might as well accuse the Irish soccer team of being racist.

Not race then, nationality.

And thats a crap analogy by the way, we are talking about a job not a sports team.

Its a job that you cant do unless you are swiss and catholic, if I advertised an IT job with no non-catholics allowed or no non-swiss need apply would I be allowed to do so?

Its just one more thing that its ok for a church to do that normal people arent.

prinz

Subtle Troll wrote: »

Except for the fact that they discriminate based on race.

What race would that be now? Not so subtle.

Subtle Troll

prinz wrote: »

What race would that be now?

In the post right above yours I corrected myself as meaning nationality.

Not so subtle.

What are you on about? Username? Do you take them all literally? Mine is ironic. I also don't look like a cartoon superman.

To take yours literally I would have to conclude you are a member of a royal family who can't spell.

Maybe you will correct me on that arbitrary point also and ignore the actual point made?

prinz

Subtle Troll wrote: »

In the post right above yours I corrected myself as meaning nationality.

You mean the post submitted at the same time yeah? Both citizenship and religion are requirements for plenty of jobs around the world.

Subtle Troll wrote: »

To take yours literally I would have to conclude you are a member of a royal family who can't spell.

..and you would be mistaken in that conclusion.

Subtle Troll

prinz wrote: »

You mean the post submitted at the same time yeah? Both citizenship and religion are requirements for plenty of jobs around the world.

Am I mad or is mine not first, the browser does go to the page once you posted, surely having seen my reply you would consider you point obsolete? I don't care really, I corrected myself anyway and you look silly :P Only messin.

..and you would be mistaken in that conclusion.

Thats my point, I picked a username, it has no meaning, its weird, I thought it was clever at the time...

My point is still you couldn't discriminate on nationality in a proper country or religion for a job. And if you could, you shouldn't. Hope that clears it up.

prinz

Subtle Troll wrote: »

My point is still you couldn't discriminate on nationality in a proper country or religion for a job.

Actually most of the armies of the world have citizenship and nationality restrictions in this the Swiss Guard is no different. On the other as the Vatican is an ecclestiastical state it is within their remit to have a religious requirement. No different to religious requirements to fulfill various roles in many states, monarchies around Europe etc.

A username has no meaning when you're not trying to live up to it.

alex73

prinz wrote: »

Actually most of the armies of the world have citizenship and nationality restrictions in this the Swiss Guard is no different. On the other as the Vatican is an ecclestiastical state it is within their remit to have a religious requirement. No different to religious requirements to fulfill various roles in many states, monarchies around Europe etc.

A username has no meaning when you're not trying to live up to it.

Its the exact same in the Orthodox state (Republic of Athos) or the Police a Mecca.

philstar

Subtle Troll wrote: »

Its a job that you cant do unless you are swiss and catholic, if I advertised an IT job with no non-catholics allowed or no non-swiss need apply would I be allowed to do so?

Its just one more thing that its ok for a church to do that normal people arent.

exactly this surely goes against equal opportunities rights does it not??

Subtle Troll

prinz wrote: »

Actually most of the armies of the world have citizenship and nationality restrictions in this the Swiss Guard is no different.

Yeah but they aren't in switzerland are they, at the very least, it is different.

On the other as the Vatican is an ecclestiastical state it is within their remit to have a religious requirement. No different to religious requirements to fulfill various roles in many states, monarchies around Europe etc.

I don't like those institutions either, the point is should it be considered ok in this case, they can do so, they have precedent, but theres precedent for all sorts of bad things in the world, we have to take it on a case by case basis.

You have to be X nationality and Y religion to do a job, its not right in my opinion

A username has no meaning when you're not trying to live up to it.

You need to get over the user name my liege.

prinz

Subtle Troll wrote: »

Yeah but they aren't in switzerland are they, at the very least, it is different.

...and? In that sense their make up would be extremely similar to the Gurkhas IIRC.

Subtle Troll wrote: »

You have to be X nationality and Y religion to do a job, its not right in my opinion.

Great we established that. Congrats. A Catholic should be Rabbi, a Jew Grand Mufti, a Hindu the Pope and a Buddhist head of the Church of England. :rolleyes:

Subtle Troll

prinz wrote: »

...and? In that sense their make up would be extremely similar to the Gurkhas IIRC.

Haven't a clue what they are so this is a dead end.

Great we established that. Congrats.

Good man yerself, I knew you'd get it eventually.

A Catholic should be Rabbi, a Jew Grand Mufti, a Hindu the Pope and a Buddhist head of the Church of England. :rolleyes:

Are you replying to me or are you eating those randoms sweets?

Does a swiss guard guard things or not? If he does, what has nationality or religion got to do with it. Why is it ok to discriminate in this case, today, based on religion and nationality?

alex73

Prinz don't egg on the Troll. He probably had a bad day at work yesterday and came home to register on boards.ie.

alex73

Subtle Troll wrote: »

Does a swiss guard guard things or not? If he does, what has nationality or religion got to do with it. Why is it ok to discriminate in this case, today, based on religion and nationality?

Go and try and become a Guard in Mecca without being a Muslim.. See how far you get.

prinz

Subtle Troll wrote: »

Haven't a clue what they are so this is a dead end.

There we go. Perhaps you should go check them out. Section of the British Army.

Subtle Troll wrote: »

Does a swiss guard guard things or not? If he does, what has nationality or religion got to do with it. Why is it ok to discriminate in this case, today, based on religion and nationality?

Ecclesiastical appointment. Plenty of examples around the world of military units being made up of certain ethnicities, citizens etc. As the Swiss Guards are also appointed to an ecclestiastical position then the religious requirement is also valid, no different to requiring a priest be Catholic.

Subtle Troll

alex73 wrote: »

Go and try and become a Guard in Mecca without being a Muslim.. See how far you get.

THEY DO IT WRONG SO WE DO IT WRONG TOO.

You are ignoring the topic, why does it have to be an argument instead of a discussion, I have the prince doing this :rolleyes: at me and you calling me a troll, saying to ignore me, and then replying to me

Is there a licence to have an opinion I have to apply for?

The swiss guard perform a duty, does that duty require them to be swiss and catholic? If so why? Is that ok? The name alone isn't good enough reason, and tradition is exactly that, the past, not today. This thread is going all over the shop now and that < is all I'm asking and ye have the above going on instead.

Subtle Troll

prinz wrote: »

There we go. Perhaps you should go check them out. Section of the British Army.

I will so I understand your point

Ecclesiastical appointment. Plenty of examples around the world of military units being made up of certain ethnicities, citizens etc. As the Swiss Guards are also appointed to an ecclestiastical position then the religious requirement is also valid, no different to requiring a priest be Catholic.

I don't like when you say that, I feel obliged to say it is at least a different case, the costume for a start.

Is it right though? Does their job require their belief in god, the priest has to talk about god, the guards guard things!

I'm going to google eclesiastical appointment now and see what it means as I dont know it, it sounds like an ecumenical matter.

alex73

Subtle Troll wrote: »

THEY DO IT WRONG SO WE DO IT WRONG TOO.

No, Muslim have Muslim Guards at their most holy sites. Catholics have Catholic swiss guards in the Vatican. Its a Sovereign state with its own traditions. Do see where you are going, are you hoping the we will rush to defend you?

Subtle Troll

alex73 wrote: »

No, Muslim have Muslim Guards at their most holy sites. Catholics have Catholic swiss guards in the Vatican. Its a Sovereign state with its own traditions.

Ok, but preventing someone in the swiss army say from joining the swiss guard because they aren't catholic seems unfair. You have accountability when you employ people and tradition or precedent doesn't make certain things ok.

Do see where you are going, are you hoping the we will rush to defend you?

I don't understand this part.

philstar

Subtle Troll wrote: »

Does a swiss guard guard things or not? If he does, what has nationality or religion got to do with it. Why is it ok to discriminate in this case, today, based on religion and nationality?

Good point, this is another example of religious discrimination by the RC church, i for one will be writing a stongly worded letter to the vatican about this matter.

Subtle Troll

philstar wrote: »

Good point, this is another example of religious discrimination by the RC church, i for one will be writing a stongly worded letter to the vatican about this matter.

What will you say in the letter?

philstar

Subtle Troll wrote: »

What will you say in the letter?

Dear Pope

Please let Protestants become Swiss Gaurds.

and stop your nonsense.

PT.

Subtle Troll

philstar wrote: »

Dear Pope

Please let Protestants become Swiss Gaurds.

and stop your nonsense.

PT.

What about people of other religions or no religion who are otherwise qualified?

prinz

philstar wrote: »

Good point, this is another example of religious discrimination by the RC church, i for one will be writing a stongly worded letter to the vatican about this matter.

I presume you'll be writing siilar letters to other religious, political and military leaders. :rolleyes:

prinz

Subtle Troll wrote: »

I don't like when you say that, I feel obliged to say it is at least a different case, the costume for a start..

You realise you are being ridiculous right? If you want a real 'debate of the issues' go research the topic first. The Swiss guards outfit is ceremonial. Most of their work is done outside of the traditional uniform, as plainclothes officers/personal protection/surveillance etc.

The 'costume' is no different to the French Foreign Legion units who march with beards, butcher type aprons and a lumberjacks axe. Highly trained mercenary soldiers... that's some costume... :rolleyes:

http://static.howstuffworks.com/gif/french-foreign-legion2.jpg


Or the Greek military soldiers who form the ceremonial presidential guard in their traditional garb.

http://media.photobucket.com/image/greek%20presidential%20guard%20uniform/runfuret/mil_uniforms/GREEK_EVZONES.jpg

mikemac

People are looking for things to be offended over.

The Vatican does not have a population to supply their own recruits so they look outside. Well they used to have the Papal states and their own army but that's long gone.
In the past the Swiss were excellent soldiers and mercenaries so the Pope hired them in and so started the tradition

I'm leaving aside the religion part, that's been addressed on Page 3
The job requirement is that you need military experience, in this case with the Swiss army.
Look past the costumes/uniforms, the Swiss Guards are highly trained and have military experience.

There are established rules in place about recruiting members to the defense forces of other countries.
You will never see a British/Spanish/French etc army advertisement in Ireland. You can contact the British army for recruitment material which you'll get in an unmarked envelope but they won't contact you first

The Swiss guards have a reliable and established source of recruits from Switzerland.
If an Irish citizen wants to join they'll need military experience too but the Swiss army isn't going to recruit you.
Maybe you have Irish military experience. So do you want to Vatican to check your training and see if you are good enough?
Send a delegation over to the Curragh to see what training is in place just for one potential recruit?

JonJoeDali

Subtle Troll wrote: »

In any real country their recruitment stipulations would be illegal.

Its racist and discriminates on religion, but that is the least of the evils coming out of catholicism.

Ooh look what we have here. An aggressive secularist/militant atheist. Exactly the kind of person Benedict XVI has warned us about.

Baggio1

joejoedali well said these angry little people are 2 a penny i think the swiss guards would have no truck with such half eegits