The alternative government ??????

dean21

The alternative government will be made up of FG.
The question I have to ask is do we really want FG when one of there TD’s hears Brian Cowen on a radio, sounding a bit under the weather, goes straight on to twitter and says he sounded drunk or hung-over . This put Ireland at more risk to the markets.
If he had put on twitter “Cowne sounds tired and worn out” would that have made world news?
FG need to learn that you do not “ S**T on your own door step in these times and Ireland dose not need world attention like this “
I am no fan of FF and I want them out, but after this FG will not be getting my vote either.
FG bought unwanted attention on Ireland for Political attention and this was after Enda Kenny said he needs 10 year to fix Ireland
The Future looks very bleak with the alternative government

jmayo

dean21 wrote: »

The alternative government will be made up of FG.
The question I have to ask is do we really want FG when one of there TD’s hears Brian Cowen on a radio, sounding a bit under the weather, goes straight on to twitter and says he sounded drunk or hung-over . This put Ireland at more risk to the markets.
If he had put on twitter “Cowne sounds tired and worn out” would that have made world news?
FG need to learn that you do not “ S**T on your own door step in these times and Ireland dose not need world attention like this “
I am no fan of FF and I want them out, but after this FG will not be getting my vote either.
FG bought unwanted attention on Ireland for Political attention and this was after Enda Kenny said he needs 10 year to fix Ireland
The Future looks very bleak with the alternative government

FFS where are you people coming out of ?
Funny how always somewhere in these posts is the line
"I'm no fan of FF... but"

If that were true of all these posts then there is no way ff would be getting anywhere near 20% support, but yet they are. :rolleyes:

This story had broke through reuters who were there at the hotel and not through Coveney's twitting.

Stop trying to once again blame ff's shortcomings on other people.

Bottle_of_Smoke

Was intending to vote FG to to help keep FF out but unless they cop themselves on in the next 18 -24 months just gonna vote independent/labour/sinn fein if it isn't mary lou in dublin central

Laminations

jmayo wrote: »

This story had broke through reuters who were there at the hotel and not through Coveney's twitting.

Stop trying to once again blame ff's shortcomings on other people.

People seem unable to grasp this. The OP is factually incorrect

/ thread

Bottle_of_Smoke

jmayo wrote: »

FFS where are you people coming out of ?
Funny how always somewhere in these posts is the line
"I'm no fan of FF... but"

If that were true of all these posts then there is no way ff would be getting anywhere near 20% support, but yet they are. :rolleyes:

This story had broke through reuters who were there at the hotel and not through Coveney's twitting.

Stop trying to once again blame ff's shortcomings on other people.

Very harsh post whether the OP is a FF supporter or not his point was valid

Laminations

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

Very harsh post whether the OP is a FF supporter or not his point was valid

No it wasn't, it is invalid, he is wrong about FG starting this - this is the type of FF rubbish of hear no evil speak no evil - you cant possibly dare to talk the country down, even if you are telling the truth.

Coveney just said what he thought, and it was what a lot of people were thinking.

Revolution9

It's the Opposition's job to do everything they can do discredit the government.
Fair play to the FG tweeter. Newspapers all over the world are carrying the story, with a quote from him in it.
If I was in his position, and seen this chance to discredit the government and get myself more widely known, I would've taken it too.

This is Irish politics folks, if you don't play games like this then you'll never rise up the party ranks.

dean21

jmayo wrote: »

FFS where are you people coming out of ?
Funny how always somewhere in these posts is the line
"I'm no fan of FF... but"

If that were true of all these posts then there is no way ff would be getting anywhere near 20% support, but yet they are. :rolleyes:

This story had broke through reuters who were there at the hotel and not through Coveney's twitting.

Stop trying to once again blame ff's shortcomings on other people.

The story broke on the ray darcy show on today Fm from people texting in about how cowen sounded on morning ireland
Then i would think coveney jumped on to twitter

dean21

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

Very harsh post whether the OP is a FF supporter or not his point was valid

On my life I am not a FF supporter
But the fact remains cowne is still in power and nothing has being gained for the world attention it got but to show Ireland as a complete joke

Bottle_of_Smoke

Laminations wrote: »

No it wasn't, it is invalid, he is wrong about FG starting this - this is the type of FF rubbish of hear no evil speak no evil - you cant possibly dare to talk the country down, even if you are telling the truth.

Coveney just said what he thought, and it was what a lot of people were thinking.

Ok I realise the twitter thing was wrong but the general point about FG needlessly generally cocking things up I would agree.

Whether it was on twitter or saying what he was thinking he should have known it would go public. Most people see this as him being a twat rather than Cowen a drunk so another blow to FG/ gain to FF. That's why I think his point was valid

dean21

Revolution9 wrote: »

It's the Opposition's job to do everything they can do discredit the government.
Fair play to the FG tweeter. Newspapers all over the world are carrying the story, with a quote from him in it.
If I was in his position, and seen this chance to discredit the government and get myself more widely known, I would've taken it too.

This is Irish politics folks, if you don't play games like this then you'll never rise up the party ranks.

And they gained?????????????????

Laminations

dean21 wrote: »

The story broke on the ray darcy show on today Fm from people texting in about how cowen sounded on morning ireland
Then i would think coveney jumped on to twitter

So people thought it, but Coveney is at fault for saying it?

I think you'll find Cowen is at fault for doing it, end of

Revolution9

dean21 wrote: »

On my life I am not a FF supporter
But the fact remains cowne is still in power and nothing has being gained for the world attention it got but to show Ireland as a complete joke

Exactly. This FG guy helped show just how much of a joke we are. Why are we such a joke? FF, and Cowen as Minister of Finance and Taoiseach has a lot to do with it. FG guy clearly made the right call, as now the whole world are talking about how foolish we are! Pressure rising on Cowen and the FF boyos. FG party will be very pleased with their little tweeter I imagine. Job well done. Opposition should always question EVERY single little thing any member of the government may or may not do.

dean21

jmayo wrote: »

FFS where are you people coming out of ?
Funny how always somewhere in these posts is the line
"I'm no fan of FF... but"

If that were true of all these posts then there is no way ff would be getting anywhere near 20% support, but yet they are. :rolleyes:

This story had broke through reuters who were there at the hotel and not through Coveney's twitting.

Stop trying to once again blame ff's shortcomings on other people.

Coveney's twitted it at 10:16 AM Sep 14th

Reuters went online Tue Sep 14, 2010 1:56pm BST

have you another time when reuters ran with story?

dean21

Revolution9 wrote: »

Exactly. This FG guy helped show just how much of a joke we are. Why are we such a joke? FF, and Cowen as Minister of Finance and Taoiseach has a lot to do with it. FG guy clearly made the right call, as now the whole world are talking about how foolish we are! Pressure rising on Cowen and the FF boyos. FG party will be very pleased with their little tweeter I imagine. Job well done. Opposition should always question EVERY single little thing any member of the government may or may not do.

But we are paying for it on the markets, cowen is there
I would / will say well done if cowen is gone by the end of the week
Other wise it is just another failed FG attack which will cost ireland millions

Laminations

dean21 wrote: »

Coveney's twitted it at 10:16 AM Sep 14th

Reuters went online Tue Sep 14, 2010 1:56pm BST

have you another time when reuters ran with story?

Whats BST, and how far ahead of GMT is it? Only BSTs I can find are 6+ hours ahead which wouldn't make sense

EDIT: Ah GMT+1 = summer time

We have the guy from the SBP as witness to the story going out so it must've been earlier

ILA

A real alternative would be a Labour/Sinn Fein/Indepedent or smaller party government. It would be fantastic for the country except that Gilmore is too much of a stick to go for it

Revolution9

dean21 wrote: »

But we are paying for it on the markets, cowen is there
I would / will say well done if cowen is gone by the end of the week
Other wise it is just another failed FG attack which will cost ireland millions

He won't be gone by the end of the week. Probably won't be gone by the end of the year.
But it's worth taking the risk to attempt to pressure him and FF. Can't expect every political attack to pay off, although this can't be seen as a failure as papers in New York, Paris etc. are all running the story. This won't be forgotten and could turn more voters to FG/Labour/Other in the long term

Cost millions in the short term, but FF have cost BILLIONS in the last few years through their own corrupt circles. This is collateral damage.

Brussels Sprout

dean21 wrote: »

On my life I am not a FF supporter

I seem to remember you being very pro-public sector in some other thread. So yes I'd imagine you're definitely a Labour supporter given their pledge to reverse the cuts.

NOGMaxpower

ILA wrote: »

A real alternative would be a Labour/Sinn Fein/Indepedent or smaller party government. It would be fantastic for the country except that Gilmore is too much of a stick to go for it

Here here ILA, we need change and a true alternative that will result in either FG and FF being removed from power. Both are as bad as the other witht he quangos and back handers. Replace FF with FG and the issues will continue with no reform of our governance.

I've for that a FF Labour coalition would be jsut what Irelands. Sure people will say the ol ramblings of SF not being experienced enough to run the economy but they are doing it already in the North and more successfully than in the south.

The key problem is Irish society has been sucked into a 2 tier political system with FF leading the way and FG tail gating. However niether have any true policies to lead us out of recession in fact anything they do will only increase the **** we're in.

So give what the smaller parties want, a chance to govern. Let them feck up, sure it can't get any worse. if it doesn't work bam call for an election and take back in the best of the worst FF.

Having said that Ireland and its people have no idea what this republic means any more and are content with being ripped off and taken for a ride by FF.

Liam Byrne

dean21 wrote: »

On my life I am not a FF supporter
But the fact remains cowne is still in power and nothing has being gained for the world attention it got but to show Ireland as a complete joke

And who was it that showed it this way ?

This "shoot the messenger" crap is pathetic.

Did you consider the fact that RTE can be listened to online and that recordings of the show are available via podcasts ?

So people abroad would have heard this idiot regardless.

But we are paying for it on the markets, cowen is there
I would / will say well done if cowen is gone by the end of the week
Other wise it is just another failed FG attackIt is yet another Cowen/FF screw-up which will cost ireland millions

The bottom line is that this is Cowen's fault, and absolutely no-one else's.

Bottle_of_Smoke

NOGMaxpower wrote: »

I've for that a FF Labour coalition would be jsut what Irelands. Sure people will say the ol ramblings of SF not being experienced enough to run the economy but they are doing it already in the North and more successfully than in the south.
any more and are content with being ripped off and taken for a ride by FF.

People say they're too left wing not too inexperienced!

Anyway they haven't been running it in the north devolution hasn't been in place very long and DUP's Sammy Wilson is finance minister. They also have advantages like a weekish sterling(up until recently anyway) and far lower minimum wage which helps massively with employment

Personally I don't know what would happen. If in power I think they'd become far more centrist tbh

dean21

Revolution9 wrote: »

He won't be gone by the end of the week. Probably won't be gone by the end of the year.
But it's worth taking the risk to attempt to pressure him and FF. Can't expect every political attack to pay off, although this can't be seen as a failure as papers in New York, Paris etc. are all running the story. This won't be forgotten and could turn more voters to FG/Labour/Other in the long term

Cost millions in the short term, but FF have cost BILLIONS in the last few years through their own corrupt circles. This is collateral damage.

I think labour are loving this

HQvhs

dean21 wrote: »

The alternative government will be made up of FG.
The question I have to ask is do we really want FG when one of there TD’s hears Brian Cowen on a radio, sounding a bit under the weather, goes straight on to twitter and says he sounded drunk or hung-over . This put Ireland at more risk to the markets.
If he had put on twitter “Cowne sounds tired and worn out” would that have made world news?
FG need to learn that you do not “ S**T on your own door step in these times and Ireland dose not need world attention like this “
I am no fan of FF and I want them out, but after this FG will not be getting my vote either.
FG bought unwanted attention on Ireland for Political attention and this was after Enda Kenny said he needs 10 year to fix Ireland
The Future looks very bleak with the alternative government

Brian Cowen brought unwanted attention on himself.
The Reuters story was up before Coveny sent out the tweet.
He's being used as a scapegoat by FF to deflect attention.

dean21

Liam Byrne wrote: »

And who was it that showed it this way ?

This "shoot the messenger" crap is pathetic.

Did you consider the fact that RTE can be listened to online and that recordings of the show are available via podcasts ?

So people abroad would have heard this idiot regardless.



The bottom line is that this is Cowen's fault, and absolutely no-one else's.

They could have heard it but it was the fact that drink, hung-over and drunk was bought in to it by FG that the world was interested
The world dose not care what a person sound like
Today the world has lost interested in the story but had the bond market??

dean21

HQvhs wrote: »

Brian Cowen brought unwanted attention on himself.
The Reuters story was up before Coveny sent out the tweet.
He's being used as a scapegoat by FF to deflect attention.

did they run with him being drunk or hung over first?

irishh_bob

Revolution9 wrote: »

It's the Opposition's job to do everything they can do discredit the government.
Fair play to the FG tweeter. Newspapers all over the world are carrying the story, with a quote from him in it.
If I was in his position, and seen this chance to discredit the government and get myself more widely known, I would've taken it too.

This is Irish politics folks, if you don't play games like this then you'll never rise up the party ranks.

politics is a bloodsport internationally yet politics irish style is still quite tame by comparison , what coveny did would be seen in american politcs every day of the week , over there , every single poltical swipe is below the belt , beit sarah palin claiming that obama wants to turn off grandmas life support machine or whatever , i remember back in 2004 when john kerry was running against george bush , fox news ( which is part of the republican party ) ran a question on several of thier shows one day during the run up to the election , DOES KERRY LOOK FRENCH , while it was a meaningless baseless accusation , the seed was planted and it painted kerry in a negative light , the accusation against cowen however is not at all baseless , the whole nation heard him slur through an interview , the opposition had a golden opportunity handed to them , fine gael have been criticised for being too nice up to now , perhaps they believe its time they started to fight dirty , heaven knows , thats how fianna fail have always fought , ive always thought coveny was a bit of a gob****e , nice but dim but on this occasion he was dead right to go for the jugular

Revolution9

irishh_bob wrote: »

politics is a bloodsport internationally yet politics irish style is still quite tame by comparison , what coveny did would be seen in american politcs every day of the week , over there , every single poltical swipe is below the belt , beit sarah palin claiming that obama wants to turn off grandmas life support machine or whatever , i remember back in 2004 when john kerry was running against george bush , fox news ( which is part of the republican party ) ran a question on several of thier shows one day during the run up to the election , DOES KERRY LOOK FRENCH , while it was a meaningless baseless accusation , the seed was planted and it painted kerry in a negative light , the accusation against cowen however is not at all baseless , the whole nation heard him slur through an interview , the opposition had a golden opportunity handed to them , fine gael have been criticised for being too nice up to now , perhaps they believe its time they started to fight dirty , heaven knows , thats how fianna fail have always fought , ive always thought coveny was a bit of a gob****e , nice but dim but on this occasion he was dead right to go for the jugular

+1.
Everyone moans about FG not being ruthless, being too nice. Now one of their lads actually attacks our dear leader, and half the country dislike him for it.

I dislike FG (not as much as FF obviously) but Coveny certainly made the right decision.

Pat D. Almighty

A Labour/Sinn Fein/Independent coalition would be very interesting. Labour are certainly not as left as they used to be, and some of Sinn Feins decisions in the Stormont assembly have not been helped by sharing power with the centre-right DUP.
However, maybe Gilmore and co, along with the elected Sinn Fein TD could move towards a more left leaning government. Pearse O'Doherty, who will more than likely get the Donegal South-West seat, is a champion of keeping Sinn Fein left, along with O Snodaigh. McDonald, if she gets in, I'm not too sure about in terms of her leanings. Arthur Morgan is certainly left-leaning, but he has already announced that he wont be contesting his seat in Louth at the next election.
On the independent side of things, I wonder will Finian mcGrath be a kingmaker?

deanh

dean21 wrote: »

Coveney's twitted it at 10:16 AM Sep 14th

Reuters went online Tue Sep 14, 2010 1:56pm BST

have you another time when reuters ran with story?

thread 'Cowen on the radio this morning' on boards.ie opened at 09:46 irish time. when op montec used the phrase 'Tired and emotional', a well known euphamism for pissed and not quite woken up yet.

astrofool

Look, the only realistic way to definitely get rid of FF, is to vote FG en masse.

Lab/SF/Ind would destroy the country as a government.

FG/Lab is about the only palatable alternative, but the message needs to be clear. If people want to get rid of FF, they need to vote for FG. Give your second preference to whoever else, but get FF out of power first, then start worrying about getting in your other preferred government.

Flocking to the small guys now will only help FF.

Pat D. Almighty

astrofool wrote: »

Lab/SF/Ind would destroy the country as a government.

How so?

I honestly don't think a Fine Gael government will be any better. They have no policies that differ from Fianna Fail. They've offered no alternative to what Fianna Fail have been spouting for the past few years.

jmayo

Pat D. Almighty wrote: »

How so?

I honestly don't think a Fine Gael government will be any better. They have no policies that differ from Fianna Fail. They've offered no alternative to what Fianna Fail have been spouting for the past few years.

FFS yet another who can't be ar**d looking up either their website or doing a bit of research.

One of their big policies is to overhaul the health bsystem and bring in a Dutch health system.
That would be the equivalent to doing what Obama did in the States.

They are not miles apart, but neither are Labour on some things.


SF/Labour/SWP would tax the sh** out of everyone and then wonder why anyone with half a brain was fleeing the country.

Also I am sure the Gardaí would find it charming to have to drive around a government minister that collected Garda murderers from prison.

scr123

dean21 wrote: »

The alternative government will be made up of FG.
The question I have to ask is do we really want FG when one of there TD’s hears Brian Cowen on a radio, sounding a bit under the weather, goes straight on to twitter and says he sounded drunk or hung-over . This put Ireland at more risk to the markets.
If he had put on twitter “Cowne sounds tired and worn out” would that have made world news?
FG need to learn that you do not “ S**T on your own door step in these times and Ireland dose not need world attention like this “
I am no fan of FF and I want them out, but after this FG will not be getting my vote either.
FG bought unwanted attention on Ireland for Political attention and this was after Enda Kenny said he needs 10 year to fix Ireland
The Future looks very bleak with the alternative government

The Clown Gilmore in his first ever major interview in my experience this morning echoed the other clown Kenny in saying its going to take 10 years to sort out the alleged FF mess. Will they now write personally to the unemployed and tell them their sentence is now equal to the mandatory sentence for drug possession, 10 years !
Kenny has form attacking Ireland. Cowen in China faced problems when Kenny started badmouthing him and Kenny was it last year went to EU and badmouthed Ireland itself. Shame on the ABFF !

Liam Byrne

scr123 wrote: »

The Clown Gilmore in his first ever major interview in my experience this morning echoed the other clown Kenny in saying its going to take 10 years to sort out the alleged FF mess. Will they now write personally to the unemployed and tell them their sentence is now equal to the mandatory sentence for drug possession, 10 years !
Kenny has form attacking Ireland. Cowen in China faced problems when Kenny started badmouthing him and Kenny was it last year went to EU and badmouthed Ireland itself. Shame on the ABFF !

And what will it take those 10 years to recover from, exactly ?

FF mismanagement and corruption.

Who imposed that sentence ?

FF.

Which part has claimed "we've turned a corner" so many times now, only for another Anglo or NAMA headline to prove that they are lying ?

FF.

At least Kenny is being semi-realistic (although personally I think he's being optimistic given the size of the mess FF have created).

It's laughable the way you prefix all surnames with the word "clown" except those of FF members.

My personal opinion is that most politicians are pathetic - I'm on record as saying that Shane Ross and Pat Rabbitte are the only 2 I'd respect - but your posts are a complete joke at this stage if you insist on only labelling one side as pathetic clowns and claiming that FF are better, completely ignoring their track record of mismanagement and corruption.

irishh_bob

Pat D. Almighty wrote: »

A Labour/Sinn Fein/Independent coalition would be very interesting. Labour are certainly not as left as they used to be, and some of Sinn Feins decisions in the Stormont assembly have not been helped by sharing power with the centre-right DUP.
However, maybe Gilmore and co, along with the elected Sinn Fein TD could move towards a more left leaning government. Pearse O'Doherty, who will more than likely get the Donegal South-West seat, is a champion of keeping Sinn Fein left, along with O Snodaigh. McDonald, if she gets in, I'm not too sure about in terms of her leanings. Arthur Morgan is certainly left-leaning, but he has already announced that he wont be contesting his seat in Louth at the next election.
On the independent side of things, I wonder will Finian mcGrath be a kingmaker?

i cant remember a labour leader who was more to the left than eamon gilmore and i remember four of them , the party has moved sharply to the left since he took over , no cuts to public sector pay , no cuts in wellfare , huge tax increases on those earning over 100 k

sinn fein are hard left and the DUP are not centre anything , they are what could be called christian right

hobochris

scr123 wrote: »

The Clown Gilmore in his first ever major interview in my experience this morning echoed the other clown Kenny in saying its going to take 10 years to sort out the alleged FF mess. Will they now write personally to the unemployed and tell them their sentence is now equal to the mandatory sentence for drug possession, 10 years !
Kenny has form attacking Ireland. Cowen in China faced problems when Kenny started badmouthing him and Kenny was it last year went to EU and badmouthed Ireland itself. Shame on the ABFF !

What about that clown Cowen? Without him making a balls of things going on the radio pissed/hungover this situation wouldn't have happened.

To me this sounds like the drunk who gets an upset stomach and blames it on the kebab he had rather then the 12 pints.


It is 100% a FF mess, we would not be in this mess is FF made sure the financial system was correctly regulated. They Didn't. They failed us.

Kenny may be right about 10 years to fix things, but I personally feel we need new blood in the form of a new party to do it.

Craven99

jmayo wrote: »

FFS yet another who can't be ar**d looking up either their website or doing a bit of research.

One of their big policies is to overhaul the health bsystem and bring in a Dutch health system.
That would be the equivalent to doing what Obama did in the States.

They are not miles apart, but neither are Labour on some things.


SF/Labour/SWP would tax the sh** out of everyone and then wonder why anyone with half a brain was fleeing the country.

Also I am sure the Gardaí would find it charming to have to drive around a government minister that collected Garda murderers from prison.

What about a Labour Government independent of anyone else? We are so used to the 2-3 party governing idea that we almost can't contemplate just one party in power.
My problem is I see little difference on most policies between FF and FG.

Liam Byrne

Craven99 wrote: »

My problem is I see little difference on most policies between FF and FG.

You don't necessarily need a difference in policies.

Say let's rewind to before we got ourselves into this mess, and two parties were suggesting a candidate for Financial Regulator.

One (FF) installs the muppet that we had, because he's Ahern's "friend".
Another party installs someone like Elderfield.

Would we have a different Ireland today ?

And yet the policies would have been roughly the same.

Curious, that.

Craven99

Liam Byrne wrote: »

You don't necessarily need a difference in policies.

Say let's rewind to before we got ourselves into this mess, and two parties were suggesting a candidate for Financial Regulator.

One (FF) installs the muppet that we had, because he's Ahern's "friend".
Another party installs someone like Elderfield.

Would we have a different Ireland today ?

And yet the policies would have been roughly the same.

Curious, that.

A very valid point - I understand what you are saying is that policies can be similar but the approach and mentality behind then can be very different?

If so I am not sure even the approach to politics is much different between FF and FG.

I guess I am very much a floating voter and historically have probably voted for nearly all the main parties and independents in the past. In fact I almost always vote local as my first preference.

But for the next election (whenever that may be) I believe I should vote 'stategically' and think beyond local issues and think who would be best to lead the country - and I have no clue

jmayo

Craven99 wrote: »

What about a Labour Government independent of anyone else? We are so used to the 2-3 party governing idea that we almost can't contemplate just one party in power.
My problem is I see little difference on most policies between FF and FG.

Sorry but it appears you do not follow politics in this country ?

Firstly Labour do not have the consitutuency infrastructure to actually deliver an overall majority.
Secondly they do not have the candidates.
Thirdly there would have to be a massive swing from ff and FG for this to happen.
Now ff will lose votes, but they still have die hard grass roots who are akin to a cult, they still have the infrastructure and local appeal candidates to keep a certain number of seats.

Even though we have lots of people (most of whom I reckon would never have voted for the party anyway) claiming they will not vote for a Kenny led FG, FG will probably still bring in more seats than before because they are still seen as the best of a bad lot by non left, non union, non public sector voters.

So please stop believeing the left leaning media pundits and the Labour spin machine that they will get an overall majority.

It ain't going to happen.

Craven99

jmayo wrote: »

Sorry but it appears you do not follow politics in this country ?

Firstly Labour do not have the consitutuency infrastructure to actually deliver an overall majority.
Secondly they do not have the candidates.
Thirdly there would have to be a massive swing from ff and FG for this to happen.
Now ff will lose votes, but they still have die hard grass roots who are akin to a cult, they still have the infrastructure and local appeal candidates to keep a certain number of seats.

Even though we have lots of people (most of whom I reckon would never have voted for the party anyway) claiming they will not vote for a Kenny led FG, FG will probably still bring in more seats than before because they are still seen as the best of a bad lot by non left, non union, non public sector voters.

So please stop believeing the left leaning media pundits and the Labour spin machine that they will get an overall majority.

It ain't going to happen.

Oh I do follow politics - but perhaps should have justified my comments (or started another thread!) by wondering if a one party governement would be best - and if so what party would be the best to do so.

jmayo

Craven99 wrote: »

A very valid point - I understand what you are saying is that policies can be similar but the approach and mentality behind then can be very different?

If so I am not sure even the approach to politics is much different between FF and FG.

Ok look at ff and their approach to government over the last 13 years.

They created massive number of quangoes which often just divert the responsibility away from the relevant department and relevant government minister and then they place some of their friends on the boards.
They place personal friends on state boards and let other state boards/qaungoes run riot, running into hundreds of millions of debt, as a result of letting certain friendly supporter bankers and developers be involved.

They refuse to sanction or rather fire wasteful government ministers who preside over departments that are allowing bodies (e.g Fás, HSE) under their remit to burn money.
That would include ministers harney, dempsey, coughlan.

They refuse to sanction or fire government ministers who presided over ego vanity projects that were doomed from the start (e.g e-voting).
That would include cullen and dempsey I believe.

They refuse to fire government ministers that behave in a highly unethical manner - o'dea.

They refuse to fire or sanction party ministers that are hugely wasteful of taxpayers funds through the misuse of expenses and that would include dempsey, cullen, o'donghue, callely, harney and probably the rest of them.

They accept back into their ranks highly unethical individuals such as bev flynn.

Now you will hear the old chestnut trotted out by ffers that FG would do the same, but there is absolutely no proof of that.
That argument is like larry murphy claiming in court that some other guy would have done the same given the chance.
It is a bullsh** argument.

There is 100% proof and evidence of the above with ff.

Simarly there is no hint of the same type of behaviour from the Labour party.

The one time one prominent FGer was caught doing something dodgy he was kicked out and lo and behold he now supports the government and has some hidden secret deal done for that support.

Craven99 wrote: »

I guess I am very much a floating voter and historically have probably voted for nearly all the main parties and independents in the past. In fact I almost always vote local as my first preference.

But for the next election (whenever that may be) I believe I should vote 'stategically' and think beyond local issues and think who would be best to lead the country - and I have no clue

Exactly.

Craven99

Right so - Sinn Fein it is!

Essexboy

dean21 wrote: »

The alternative government will be made up of FG.
The question I have to ask is do we really want FG when one of there TD’s hears Brian Cowen on a radio, sounding a bit under the weather, goes straight on to twitter and says he sounded drunk or hung-over . This put Ireland at more risk to the markets.
If he had put on twitter “Cowne sounds tired and worn out” would that have made world news?
FG need to learn that you do not “ S**T on your own door step in these times and Ireland dose not need world attention like this “
I am no fan of FF and I want them out, but after this FG will not be getting my vote either.
FG bought unwanted attention on Ireland for Political attention and this was after Enda Kenny said he needs 10 year to fix Ireland
The Future looks very bleak with the alternative government

The story would not have taken off if Cowen did not already have a reputation as a heavy drinker.
He has made no effort to counter this belief: on the contrary, he was seen recently leaving a (named) Tullamore pub after hours.

dean21

Revolution9 wrote: »

+1.
Everyone moans about FG not being ruthless, being too nice. Now one of their lads actually attacks our dear leader, and half the country dislike him for it.

I dislike FG (not as much as FF obviously) but Coveny certainly made the right decision.

They attack but they never win
FG have had loads of chance to take FF down and they either made a failed attack or ran away
Why did FG not lead a protest on the streets and get us all to join them?

dean21

scr123 wrote: »

The Clown Gilmore in his first ever major interview in my experience this morning echoed the other clown Kenny in saying its going to take 10 years to sort out the alleged FF mess. Will they now write personally to the unemployed and tell them their sentence is now equal to the mandatory sentence for drug possession, 10 years !
Kenny has form attacking Ireland. Cowen in China faced problems when Kenny started badmouthing him and Kenny was it last year went to EU and badmouthed Ireland itself. Shame on the ABFF !

Agree but i have to say i think Gilmore sounded more like a leader

HQvhs

dean21 wrote: »

They attack but they never win
FG have had loads of chance to take FF down and they either made a failed attack or ran away
Why did FG not lead a protest on the streets and get us all to join them?

What opportunities have they had?
You say you want them to contribute constructively to the dialogue in the country, yet also ask them to lead disruptive protests? The two don't seem to mesh.

Pat D. Almighty

jmayo wrote: »

SF/Labour/SWP would tax the sh** out of everyone and then wonder why anyone with half a brain was fleeing the country.

Good. We don't pay enough income tax. We whinge and moan about this and that, but we have it handy when it comes to income tax.

jmayo wrote: »

Also I am sure the Gardaí would find it charming to have to drive around a government minister that collected Garda murderers from prison.

Care to expand on that one? Which potential Sinn Fein minister are you referring to?

Liam Byrne

Pat D. Almighty wrote: »

Good. We don't pay enough income tax. We whinge and moan about this and that, but we have it handy when it comes to income tax.

We do, however all of the stealth taxes and government-sponsored uncompetitiveness more than make up for it.

REPSOC1916

Liam Byrne wrote: »

We do, however all of the stealth taxes and government-sponsored uncompetitiveness more than make up for it.

You're referring to indirect taxes which are regressive. SF and Labour would both slash those taxes like VAT which would help increase spending.

The problem isnt really how much direct tax we pay. It's the percentage division between PRSI and Income tax. In Sweden for example it's roughly 50:50. Here PRSI comprises roughly 20% of all direct tax. It's worse now i'd say given the number of levies.