Pink adoptions in the media

Pink Adoptions

This thread can be used to comment on media coverage that impacts pink adoptions.

Adoption is in the news again:
http://irishpinkadoptions.com/2010/09/13/2010-09-13-more-foreign-adoptions-likely-with-new-country-agreements/
http://irishpinkadoptions.com/2010/09/13/2010-09-13-irish-couples-may-adopt-from-three-new-countries-bulgaria-south-africa-and-thailand/

And it looks like it will be mentionned again tomorrow at 9am on RTE1 radio (John Murray Show).

LegacyUser

I've seen this reference here a few times

"pink adoptions " is the most ridiculous term I've seen in a long time - and this from some one considering adoption.

how is it not just one person, or 2 people wishing to adopt

what has pink to do with it ?

whatever colour I'd pick to emphasise my personhood or sexuality - pink would not be it

it seems trite, trivial, and depressingly stereotypical. If I heard a piece on radio on "pink adoptions" I'd turn it off

if you mean gay adoptions, or same sex , then why not say that

having euphemisms for sexuality is not very useful

Aard

+1

The word "pink" is unlikely to do gay people considering adoption any favours. (Or indeed gay people at large.)

Nevyn

This come up before and they just ignore the comments
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055881967#

Pink Adoptions

Thaedydal wrote: »

This come up before and they just ignore the comments
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055881967#

It was not ignored.
It is just that no new arguments ever came up, that had not already been considered.

LGBT groups tend to spend a lot of time discussing and rediscssing and re-re-defining their names and symbol.

We only plan to do that once a year, or if new arguments surface.

"Same-gender adoption" would not cover single LGBT people.
"Gay adoption" would create confusion: the adoption is not gay... the household is. And that woudl exclude soem sections of the LGBT community (2,5 out of 4)

A pink adoption, on the otherhand, is an adoption by a pink household, or the adoption of an LGBT child (in case of adopting teenagers for instance).

But that is not the topic, so as Thaedydal pointed out, maybe we could move that discussion back to the thread that was created a while ago to deal with that very issue.
And all the comments will be taken into account next time member discuss the issue.
Of course, comments accompagnied by a suggestion are nmost welcome.

An example of a good suggestion that did not work: Irish Rainbow Adoptions => IRA!
Another one = LGB Adoptions =>LG Bad Options

LegacyUser

Your response even seems more trivialising that the original term

How about Gay Adopters ?

How for example does pink adoption not equally cause confusion , is the adoption pink, the adoptee pink, or as you reference it the household pink ?

my household is mostly off white/oatmeal with burgundy accents

How Irish Rainbow Adoptions sounded like a "good suggestion" to any serious person is beyond me

I don't understand what you mean by members either - members of "Pink Adoptions" ? - I can assure you unfortunately your very name excludes some of the people who might have some constructive input .

If I chose to pursue he possibility of adoption and some one referred within the process - be it family, friend or professional - as a pink adoption I would be close to offended.

If you limit the empathy from other gay people best of look with making any progress

Pink Adoptions

russianmafia wrote: »

Your response even seems more trivialising that the original term

How about Gay Adopters ?

[...]

That was mooted, but we also support adoptees, the children who were adopted in pink households.
And Bi- and Lesbian adopters, as well as transgendered/transexual, may feel more or less explicitely excluded. (Even if "gay" can be considered covering lesbians too)

Also, it is noteworthy that a leading UK adoption handbook for the LGBT community is called "The Pink Guide to adoption": http://www.baaf.org.uk/res/pubs/books/book_pinkguide.shtml

Would you decide to not read the book because of its title?

Someone suggested "Queer Adoptions" or "Queer Adopters" in reference to Queer ID. What do you think about it (and do you think QueerID is offending their members by being called QueerID?)

Nevyn

What is a pink house hold?

Pink Adoptions

Thaedydal wrote: »

What is a pink house hold?

(Actually, as a moderator, would you mind editing the title to remove double-"n", please?)

Our boiler plate:

We chose the term “pink family” as a relatively neutral umbrella term for the single gay men, single lesbians, or same-gender couples who intend to adopt, are in the process of adopting, or have adopted.

That includes the children raised these households...

We also welcome the input of other people touched by adoption, especially people who were adopted as children and are now adults.
This site is more concerned with adoption per se, but it is also open to discuss and support fostering and kinship caring. Input from single parents, and other “alternative families” are welcome too.

In the Irish constitution, the Irish term for "family" is refering to the concept of "household", as opposed to "blood relation".

Links234

Pink Adoptions wrote: »

We chose the term “pink family” as a relatively neutral umbrella term for the single gay men, single lesbians, or same-gender couples who intend to adopt, are in the process of adopting, or have adopted.

what about transgender people or couples where one, or both of the people are transgender?

Pink Adoptions

Links234 wrote: »

what about transgender people or couples where one, or both of the people are transgender?

They are welcome too, even if we do not have such members or contacts so far.
In any case, they woudl have a sexuality too, so they can recognize themselves as gay or lesbian... in the meantime. But as usual with such LGBT groups, you need T-members to fully grasp the needs of their specific needs.
Also note that we are only covering adoption as such. So T-parents would fall under the "Alternative Families" umbrella.

But you re right, the needs of the T-community are not obviously covered... but te term "pink" allows us to extend our coverage without having to extend our name!

Nevyn

Pink Adoptions wrote: »

(Actually, as a moderator, would you mind editing the title to remove double-"n", please?)

I am not a mod on this forum, the forums I do mod are listed under my avatar, ixoy, Johnnymcg, rainbow kirby are the mods of this forum.


So Besxuals don't count?
and I don't see how that makes a household, or a family 'pink'.

Links234

Pink Adoptions wrote: »

In any case, they woudl have a sexuality too, so they can recognize themselves as gay or lesbian... in the meantime.

what about those trans people that are straight?

Pink Adoptions

Links234 wrote: »

what about those trans people that are straight?

If they have specifci needs that we can address, they are welcome.

Pink Adoptions

Thaedydal wrote: »

I am not a mod on this forum, the forums I

So Bisxuals don't count?
and I don't see how that makes a household, or a family 'pink'.

If a bi-man is in a couple with a woman, they are a mix-gender couple.
If a bi-man is in a couple with a man, they are a same-gender couple.

In both cases, they may identify themselves as being a "pink" houshold.

For singles who are bi-, they will have to demonstrate, like any single, that they have a stable support network.

littlemis

Why can't adopting a child,simply be called adoption ?, regardless of who is doing the adopting.Why do we have to label everything.....

I had to legally sign my rights away as a mother,so that my husband and I could adopt my daughter as a married couple.....In my opinion it is red tape gone mad....

Pink Adoptions

littlemis wrote: »

Why can't adopting a child,simply be called adoption ?, regardless of who is doing the adopting.Why do we have to label everything.....

I had to legally sign my rights away as a mother,so that my husband and I could adopt my daughter as a married couple.....In my opinion it is red tape gone mad....

Same-gender couples are not equal in law with mix-gender couples.
We cannot get married.
That is how society labels us: second class citizens.

Also LGBT people have a more limited choice of countries the can adopt from.

The rights of unmarried couples are another battle.

I am not sure what situation you describe by the way, so i cannot coment further before you clarify. What do you mean by "I had to legally sign my rights away as a mother, so that my husband and I could adopt my daughter as a married couple".

Nevyn

This shouldn't be about the sexuality of the parents wanting to adopt, but by the first word being Pink you but that first and foremost. I think "Adoption Reform" makes more sense and would not stick in so many people's craws.

Pink Adoptions

Thaedydal wrote: »

This shouldn't be about the sexuality of the parents wanting to adopt, but by the first word being Pink you but that first and foremost. I think "Adoption Reform" makes more sense and would not stick in so many people's craws.

That's a different agenda.
Our core task is to support realty (existing or prospective pink adoptive families)
A side task is to lobby for change.

Also, it "should not", but in reality... it is!

It would be easier to focus only on reform, because when you go for an ideal there is no need to deliver actual support to anyone.

Our focus is to support real people in the present real world.

There are people in the IAA who haveworking groups in lobbying fro reform, between other things. They do that well.

We need to focus on what we do.
And if people feel we can do better or different, they can influence us by joining forces... but they should not expect to back-seat drive us anywhere.

littlemis

I was a single parent....I got married.My husband wanted to adopt my daughter and part of the process involved me signing a form,wavering my sole parental rights to my daughter so that we could adopt her as a married couple and for her to be given a new ADOPTION BIRTH CERTIFICATE with her new surname on it....

Pink Adoptions

littlemis wrote: »

I was a single parent....I got married.My husband wanted to adopt my daughter and part of the process involved me signing a form,wavering my sole parental rights to my daughter so that we could adopt her as a married couple and for her to be given a new ADOPTION BIRTH CERTIFICATE with her new surname on it....

I see, this is a bit silly indeed, there should be a more streamlined "step-parent" adoption process to add a parent.

Pink adoptions have similar challenges: a lot of our challenges are the same as single adoptive parents, but worst.

For instance, in Bulgaria, it seems a single mother can adopt, but she may be rejected if she is a sole adopter who is not actually single, but in a same-gender relationship!
I say "may" because there is a total lack of clarity on the subject.

It does not diminsh your own ordeal. But it is different.
We cannot just say that all issues are identical because they have a same bottom line.

Otherwise, Thaedydal badge should read "Human rights are human rights".

Nevyn

I to appericate the effort being made, how are you proposing to support lbgt people looking to adopt and will the support continue after the adoption process and if a child is adopted, will the support continue then for both the child and parents?

Ye can call yourselves what you wish, I do think it will be stumbling block, but good luck with that.

Pink Adoptions

Thaedydal wrote: »

I to appericate the effort being made, how are you proposing to support lbgt people looking to adopt and will the support continue after the adoption process and if a child is adopted, will the support continue then for both the child and parents?

Ye can call yourselves what you wish, I do think it will be stumbling block, but good luck with that.

Good point.
The idea is to create a support community.
People do meet, do exchange tips before adoption, do research the countries together.

In the case South-Africa proves to be the best option, and that most of us adopt from there, we would keep in touch afterwards to support one another, and for our children to socialize with families sharing their history and values. It can only be good for the building of the chidlren's self-image if they can be in touch with other children adopted, and adopted from the same countries, and with parents who are facing similar challenges.

littlemis

Sorry now to butt in on you ,I am fairly new to boards and computers in general,I was talking to you earlier but cant seem to find where,,igot lost between forums....ANYWAY was gay marriages not made legal ?earlier this year?

Annasopra

Pink Adoptions wrote: »

In both cases, they may identify themselves as being a "pink" houshold.

I don't know anyone who identifies themselves as being a pink household

Pink Adoptions

littlemis wrote: »

Sorry now to butt in on you ,I am fairly new to boards and computers in general,I was talking to you earlier but cant seem to find where,,igot lost between forums....ANYWAY was gay marriages not made legal ?earlier this year?

Hi,
you were on http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056030985 :-)

Civil Partnership was open to same-gender couples, amd it was designed to explicitly exclude family rights in order to prevent our children to avail of their conxtitutional rights.

You might be interested to see this: 67% support gay marriage, 91% support civil partnership, only 38% oppose same-gender couples adoptions (46% support)
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2010/0915/1224278900109.html

People do not seem to realize that Civil Marriage (CM) opens automatic rights to adoption... which the TD knew when they did the Civil Partnership (CP).

We believe that CP should be open to all couples, and not offer family rights.
But that likewise marriage should be open to all, with family rights. (It is harder to break up, for the sake of children). And of course it should result in automatic rights of both married people to custody and guardianship over the children of the other in simple cases like yours...

Herbal Deity

You might want to also consider not using the abbreviation "CP"

Aard

"LGBT Adoptions". Done, sorted, non-loaded, exactly what it says on the tin.

Nevyn

Aard wrote: »

"LGBT Adoptions". Done, sorted, non-loaded, exactly what it says on the tin.

I think having suport on the title might be a good that that way you know what it is and that it's not a lobby group.

LGBT Adoption Support.

Annasopra

Thaedydal wrote: »

I think having suport on the title might be a good that that way you know what it is and that it's not a lobby group.

LGBT Adoption Support.

Totally agree

Pink Adoptions

Herbal Deity wrote: »

You might want to also consider not using the abbreviation "CP"

Good point... I did not know what it meant before today!

Pink Adoptions

Aard wrote: »

"LGBT Adoptions". Done, sorted, non-loaded, exactly what it says on the tin.

Acronyms were excluded because they never reflect a reality, and they are limited to the eternal question: which letters are in, which are out?

What about LGBTQ?
LGQ?
Q?
What about asexuals?
And curious/questioning?
LGBTQACQ?
What exactly is covered by "T"?

At this stage we still do not know if any of the people impacted by adoption are in the B and T category, so we cannot pretend to have the capacity to actually support them before they manifest themselves.

Choosing acronyms opens the can of worms of constant arguments. Some groups spend the first half of each meetings deciding if their letters reflect who they are and what they do.
As I said, this is based on a long collective experience in associative life...

As to adding “Support”, it just makes the length of the name unsustainable.

Acronyms are just a bit boring and do not express a real-life experience. They are to label-ish ad less precise that they aim at being.

So we chose something which does not pretend to be a well-framed labelable category.
Something which is not pre-formated.


But surely, if someone think the groupis not doing a good job, they can get the name they like and do what they feel is relevant. We wil not spend much time telling them how they should cross their t's and dot their i's :-)

Nevyn

Well what are you doing other then posting here looking for people's stories and promoting your self?

How many in your group?
Do you have a manifesto?
How would a person go about joining the group?
Is it ran by volunteers?
Do you get any grants/funding, if so by whom?
Where are you based?
Do you have trained facilitators for the support groups?
Is there an email/phone for those who are looking for support/information?

Does the HSE and adoption boards know the organisation exists?

Do you work/support LGBT single people who are looking to adopt or foster or who have adopted/ are fostering? Cos a family can be one child and one parent.

Do you work/support with minors who are lgbt and need fostering/adoption or who are fostered or adopted?

Pink Adoptions

Thaedydal wrote: »

Well what are you doing other then posting here looking for people's stories and promoting your self?

How many in your group?
Do you have a manifesto?
How would a person go about joining the group?
Is it ran by volunteers?
Do you get any grants/funding, if so by whom?
Where are you based?
Do you have trained facilitators for the support groups?
Is there an email/phone for those who are looking for support/information?

Does the HSE and adoption boards know the organisation exists?

Do you work/support LGBT single people who are looking to adopt or foster or who have adopted/ are fostering? Cos a family can be one child and one parent.

Do you work/support with minors who are lgbt and need fostering/adoption or who are fostered or adopted?

That is a completely different discussion

Manifesto, etc are on the site.
Members confidentiality is paramount, so we do not discuss them.
To join the group, simply join the site.
To contribute simply contribute. Some people just email a testimonial and that is a lot already.
In all cases anonymity is protected.
It is 100% volunteer. No monies involved, if any was it would be to cover the cost of running the site. (Hosting)
We are based in Ireland.
We are not a professional "support group", we are just a group of people supporting one another.
All information can be accessed an requested via the site, which is on a best-effort-nt-legally-biding bases.
The Adoption Boards lists us as a support and information group, but they do not endorse any one group.
As previously mentioned, single people are included.
As for Fostering it is out of scope but we are open to them... as indicated in the "What is Irish Pink Adoptions?" post on our front page (click "more" link for the full page).

But again, this is a very different topic.

Aard

Pink Adoptions wrote: »

Acronyms were excluded because they never reflect a reality, and they are limited to the eternal question: which letters are in, which are out?

"LGBT" has pretty much lost its status as a specific acronym, and is colloquially used as a more general adjective. It is certainly less controversial than "pink", which to me implies airy-fairy rainbow campness, a negative quality.

Annasopra

Aard wrote: »

"LGBT" has pretty much lost its status as a specific acronym, and is colloquially used as a more general adjective. It is certainly less controversial than "pink", which to me implies airy-fairy rainbow campness, a negative quality.

I agree - I've heard things like - "I'm an LGBT student" - "LGBT People" - I've NEVER heard people say - "I live in a pink household" or "I'm a pink parent"

Choosing acronyms opens the can of worms of constant arguments. Some groups spend the first half of each meetings deciding if their letters reflect who they are and what they do.

Do you not see that by choosing PINK you have not avoided these arguments but in fact recreated them?

Aard

Listen, Irish Pink Adoptions, let's be blunt about it. You have good information on your website. You're providing a service where there is a vacuum. You undoubtedly want legislation to change. BUT!!! You're tying your legs together before you've even started the race with that silly name! Tbh, when I see the phrase "pink-friendly" on your website, do you know what immediately jumps to mind? Vaginas. Yeah, there, I said it. Call me perverted, but that's the truth. I also imagine shopaholic diva men dressing their baby boys in pink baby-grows. And I'm an open-minded gay man! What do you think 96% of Irish people will think when they see "Pink Adoptions"? They will subconsciously associate the word and colour "pink" with negative qualities. Pink is a weak version of red. Pink is for prissy little girls. Pink is for screaming queens. Pink is an undercooked steak (well, to some people). The only thing positive about "pink" is the phrase "tickled pink", and even that makes me cringe a little in the context of adoption.

I would very much encourage you to consider changing the name to something more informative (what is "pink" anyway?), and something less stereotypical. AFAIK, you have first-mover's advantage, but please accept the accompanying responsibility by cutting a professional path.

Pink Adoptions

Aard wrote: »

Listen, Irish Pink Adoptions, let's be blunt about it. You have good information on your website. You're providing a service where there is a vacuum. You undoubtedly want legislation to change. BUT!!! You're tying your legs together before you've even started the race with that silly name! Tbh, when I see the phrase "pink-friendly" on your website, do you know what immediately jumps to mind? Vaginas. Yeah, there, I said it. Call me perverted, but that's the truth. I also imagine shopaholic diva men dressing their baby boys in pink baby-grows. And I'm an open-minded gay man! What do you think 96% of Irish people will think when they see "Pink Adoptions"? They will subconsciously associate the word and colour "pink" with negative qualities. Pink is a weak version of red. Pink is for prissy little girls. Pink is for screaming queens. Pink is an undercooked steak (well, to some people). The only thing positive about "pink" is the phrase "tickled pink", and even that makes me cringe a little in the context of adoption.

I would very much encourage you to consider changing the name to something more informative (what is "pink" anyway?), and something less stereotypical. AFAIK, you have first-mover's advantage, but please accept the accompanying responsibility by cutting a professional path.

Should we advise the authors of The Pink Guide to adoption, edited by the BAAF, to change their title?
http://www.baaf.org.uk/res/pubs/books/book_pinkguide.shtml

We got more positive feedback than negative ones, but it true that the negative feedback is much more vocal than the positive one.
So we will take all that debate home and re-open the can next year when we decide on the direction for the following year.

if you have any new arguments, we'll be happy to hear of them at any stage.

Aard

That book is a red herring.


I'm only trying to help. Believe me, I have no vested interests in derailing your endeavours.


The quip about "new" arguments is unnecessarily passive-aggressive. Both for the sake of your organisation, not to mention that of your clients, I would suggest you foster a more professional attitude.

Pink Adoptions

Sorry if it sounded quippy, but it was sincere.
As I said very early in the thread, all these arguments have been discussed at length a long time ago, and they can be expected to be discussed again.

All the arguments developed in this thread have been carefully logged and all of them will be carefully reviewed next year.
And if there are more arguments, different from the ones in this thread, we encourage people to let us know. Especially if that comes along positive suggestions.

Some suggestions are either very conservative, or pre-formatted, or they lack diversity.
Some suggestions are very good but just don't work.
Some suggestions lack candor.

We are not into the business of re-inventing the wheel every day. Once a year is enough