Winter - the thread

uberwolf

See how this goes - tis the season for queries.

Not least mine.
Tights - needed. Willing to spend, but won't if I don't have to. Assos vs. Rapha; is that the only decision?
Slane Cycles have a number of tights discounted here from previous years. Assos 2011 have been launched. Worth going for this years? Rapha have also just launched their new winter line. Lovely looking stuff.
A quick google suggests this debate runs deep! Rapha jacket in particular looks lovely - and is a much lower price than Assos from a quick glance.

Tyres - continental ultra gator skins unless I'm told otherwise. 28mm ideally, but I'm probably restricted to running 25mm with my mudguards.




As questions are asked and answered I (and my fellow mods) may try and edit this original post to provide links to recommendations at particular price points for different categories




Clothing
Tights
Jackets
Gloves
Base layer
overshoes

Lights
Tyres

Chips Lovell

Good idea for a thread.

I've Assos tights, which are fabulously comfortable. However, if I was buying again, I'd only get one pair and focus on shorts + leg warmers. I guess it depends on how much you feel the cold, but leg warmers work for me on all but the coldest days. One good pair of tights though might be worth an investment.

I just got 25mm Gatorskins myself for the winter too. Decided that I wanted to get a decent amount of mileage in over the next few months and there was no need for fast tyres at this time of year.

irishmotorist

On tights, I got a pair of these last year and found them pretty good. Much cheaper than Assos but I can't compare quality cos I don't have any Assos, but I'd give these a good thumbs up on their own merits. Good enough weight for anything last winter threw at me (though I didn't cycle when snow was lying).
http://www.wiggle.co.uk/p/cycle/7/dhb_Merston_Padded_Bib_Tights/5360045075/

Most useful, imo, is the zip at the heel that makes getting out of them on a wet morning much easier.

DirkVoodoo

I was thinking of a decent pair of fleece lined bibs plus a few pairs of dhb padded undershorts so I can avoid the horrendous cost of buying enough winter bibs without having to do a wash after each ride (I tend to let clothing pile up for a few days and do a big wash).

Failing that, I like the look of the PBK tights, I was considering a pair of the cheaper ones and then the more expensive ones, total cost comes to the same as a pair of campag tights. I might just buy the cheaper ones first to make sure sizing is correct and there are no major quality issues.

I really want these though, I have a pair of 3/4s and they are super comfy, nice fit too:



The lack of foot straps on a lot of bib tights is a real deal breaker for me!

silverharp

noob question on thermal layer. I saw Aldi had these on offer this thur.

http://www.aldi.ie/ie/html/offers/special_buys3_14431.htm


are they necessary for cycling here? lets assume if the roads are iced up I wont be out

snollup

irishmotorist wrote: »

On tights, I got a pair of these last year and found them pretty good. Much cheaper than Assos but I can't compare quality cos I don't have any Assos, but I'd give these a good thumbs up on their own merits. Good enough weight for anything last winter threw at me (though I didn't cycle when snow was lying).
http://www.wiggle.co.uk/p/cycle/7/dhb_Merston_Padded_Bib_Tights/5360045075/

Most useful, imo, is the zip at the heel that makes getting out of them on a wet morning much easier.

Just got a pair of these in the post today from Wiggle. Reviews seemed good, cash was fairly tight so reckoned I'd give them a go.

As for tyres, as this will be my first winter on the road am not to sure what's the norm. What advantages are there to changing to wider tyres?

DirkVoodoo

snollup wrote: »

Just got a pair of these in the post today from Wiggle. Reviews seemed good, cash was fairly tight so reckoned I'd give them a go.

As for tyres, as this will be my first winter on the road am not to sure what's the norm. What advantages are there to changing to wider tyres?

More grip.

uberwolf

snollup wrote: »

As for tyres, as this will be my first winter on the road am not to sure what's the norm. What advantages are there to changing to wider tyres?

I changed tyres for three reasons in my racing days. Increased Puncture resistance, increased rolling resistance, & increased weight. The first alone is worthwhile.

snollup

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

More grip.

DOH!!! I didn't really think that question through.

Is that the only reason to change them?

DirkVoodoo

See above. I guess no one wants to be standing around in the freezing cold changing a puncture. I'm going to stick with 23s, I have 25 gatorskins on my commuter and in wet weather I have never noticed much of a difference, gatorskins are puncture resistant but they are still quite slippy in the wet.

If you only have a race tyre it might be worth getting a set.

ROK ON

Tights. Assos Airblock. But great value and good quality in the DHB (wiggle) range.
Rapha 3/4 length good.

Jacket. For cold weather. Assos 851 airjack. Accept no substitutes.

Overshoes. Pro H20. But on freezing cold do Rapha neoprene overshoe.

Merino baselayers.
Merino socks.

Wet days - sealskinz

Merino beanie.

Buff

Gloves. Prendas. Campagnola TGS Winter glove.

Tyres. Conti GP 4000s.
Rear light. Blackburn.
Front light. Cateye and Fenix.

Mudguards.

Chips Lovell

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

but they are still quite slippy in the wet.

This is worrying me at the moment. Had a gator on the front when I crashed the other week. I don't remember them being as slippy as this, but it is a few years since I rode on them last.

Again recommending this - get a balaclava! Aldi/Lidl usually do the motorbike stuff at times, and it's incredibly handy during the winter months.

uberwolf

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

gatorskins are puncture resistant but they are still quite slippy in the wet.

el tonto wrote: »

This is worrying me at the moment. Had a gator on the front when I crashed the other week. I don't remember them being as slippy as this, but it is a few years since I rode on them last.

my cornering has gone to sh 1 t. I will need to boost my confidence over the winter if I'm racing more next year, so grip is a big factor for me. What out there beats the Conti's for grip?

Beasty

I had Gatorskins on over last winter and only crashed the once!

For now I'm leaving the Conti GP 4000s on - I've not had a puncture using them all summer (although I do occasionally find small stones or pieces of glass embedded in them)

If I start getting punctures, I'll put Gatorskins back on

Quigs Snr

My last 2 winters have been ended prematurely by crashes (ice). Nontheless, prior to that, I did get a decent amount of quality mileage in and I did learn a couple of things however in the process... I had far,far fewer punctures and noticeably more grip with the GP4000 and GP4000S than I had with the Gatorskins. The GP4000 wore pretty well too, I had expected them to disintegrate but they held up well...

It galls me to say it, being a brand snob...Assos make the best kit, but winter is a crashy time and I found that the Wiggle DHB stuff was perfectly functional and I didn't spend so much on it that I felt I should give them a full christian burial when I inevitably wiped myself and my kit out. The DHB leggings are surprisingly very warm and their baselayers get the job done too, in addition the heavy rain jackets work as well as anything else out there (although I personally found the jackets sized a little large).

Chips Lovell

uberwolf wrote: »

my cornering has gone to sh 1 t. I will need to boost my confidence over the winter if I'm racing more next year, so grip is a big factor for me. What out there beats the Conti's for grip?

Well, Continental GP4000s are great and offer a decent level of puncture protection, but wouldn't wear as well as the Gatorskins.

The thing that mystifies me a little is that I never noticed it before. And the likes of Diarmuid was racing on Gatorskins all year.

I can empathise. Any time I crash my cornering goes to pot.

English Bob

Conti Gp 4000s seem great so far in wet. Mudguards are a must, cateye lights stay on bike at all times. Buff, flourescent waterproof jacket, dhb full length fleece lined bib tights, fleeced lined arm warmers, extra pair of socks & overshoes!
I can't wait to get some decent winter training in!!
Just sorted winter bike today so have planned to get serious this week.
Is it just me or does anyone else realise just how much they've missed their winter steed!!?!

ROK ON

Cycling on a cold dry bright winter day is one of the most pleasurable experiences you can get on a bike.
A good 2-3 hard hours followed by a steaming bowl of soup and bread when you get home.
Bliss.
Can't wait.

Murph100

I've just put on some Vittoria Open Pave CG, wicked grip, really smooth ride and dont feel slower either.

Not cheap though :

http://www.probikekit.com/display.php?code=Y0105

Chips Lovell

Murph100 wrote: »

I've just put on some Vittoria Open Pave CG, wicked grip, really smooth ride and dont feel slower either.

Not cheap though :

http://www.probikekit.com/display.php?code=Y0105

I've been using them all summer. Fantastic tyres. Nicest clinchers I've ever ridden.

manwithaplan

Have ordered these after a few recommendations. I don't feel the cold too badly and just commute bare-legged through the winter but I wanted something for longer training spins. After some of the arctic explorer stuff I have seen on threads here, I am beginning to worry that my few inches of exposed calf might be a problem. I will have a good merino base layer, a winter training jacket and decent socks and gloves - I should be alright, no?

Murph100

And you took them off for the winter ?

el tonto wrote: »

I've been using them all summer. Fantastic tyres. Nicest clinchers I've ever ridden.

Chips Lovell

Murph100 wrote: »

And you took them off for the winter ?

God yeah. Those things are expensive and they don't last half as long as even GP4000s.

Murph100

Ah crap ... well if you thought the Paves were fast wearing, try a pair of Veloflex Corsa 22s, beautiful tyre, the best I've ever tried, but you'll wear them out just by looking at them.

Actually the Veloflexes were doing ok until I brought the bike to Nice for a week, dont know if it was the heat ( 30 C ) or the type of road debris there. but they seemed to pick up everything like bloody flypaper, and they defintely wore at a much faster rate. Maybe there is some advantage to our crap climate

el tonto wrote: »

God yeah. Those things are expensive and they don't last half as long as even GP4000s.

irishmotorist

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

The lack of foot straps on a lot of bib tights is a real deal breaker for me!

I've never had footstraps on tights - the tightness or sticky elastic bit on the inside of the cuff does the trick just fine for me. Maybe you've got skinny ankles! :pac:

blorg

.

Murph100

What timing !!!

Storm blowing outside here all day long, putting the turbo trainer on the Ark !! :rolleyes:

sy

Quigs Snr wrote: »

......I had far,far fewer punctures and noticeably more grip with the GP4000 and GP4000S than I had with the Gatorskins. The GP4000 wore pretty well too, I had expected them to disintegrate but they held up well...

+1 on that. Gatorskins are fine in dry but I've crashed twice on wet corners due to poor grip. Never use them again. I can deal with the few extra punctures!


PS Quigs great commentary on the B race yesterday

blorg

25c tyres are a very good idea in winter. I rode Maxxis Columbiere all last winter and they still have plenty of life in them yet. Nice feeling tyre too, more like a GP4000 or Ultremo than a Gatorskin. Cheap from CRC.

hshortt

If Halfords have what you want get it while you can with their promotion error which is giving 2 for the price of 1.

cdaly_

manwithaplan wrote: »

Have ordered these after a few recommendations. I don't feel the cold too badly and just commute bare-legged through the winter but I wanted something for longer training spins. After some of the arctic explorer stuff I have seen on threads here, I am beginning to worry that my few inches of exposed calf might be a problem. I will have a good merino base layer, a winter training jacket and decent socks and gloves - I should be alright, no?

Sounds pretty much like what I use. You should be grand. One thing though, keep your knees covered for the whole winter. Cold knees are more prone to injury than warm. I'm told knees should be covered once the temperature goes below 15 Celsius...

LastGasp

DHB fleecy bibs are good value - used them every day last winter. Ankle zips eventually gave up though.
Got ROK ON's Campag TGS Gloves after he recommended them before - they're grand while dry, but I find if I take them off while wet, or even a bit damp with sweat the inner glove goes all over the place, and they're practically impossible to get back on again (and no, they're not too small !).
Got Sealskinz Mittens eventually, after trying about 4 other Winter gloves and they are the only things that keep my fingers warm (if you can get used to having "no fingers").
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=6046

Saw Probikekit are doing cheapish arm & leg warmers there.

Chips Lovell

sy wrote: »

+1 on that. Gatorskins are fine in dry but I've crashed twice on wet corners due to poor grip. Never use them again. I can deal with the few extra punctures!

Hmmm. I'm kind of getting my mind made up for me here.

Anyone got any opinions on Vittoria Rubino or Zaffiro as cheap, durable winter tyres that'll hold the road well in wet conditions? Weight and RR are not a consideration for me.

oflahero

I'm on Rubinos and, while I haven't racked up much wet weather mileage on them, they feel great for the money and nary a puncture in 6 months.

blorg

I found Maxxis Columbiere in 700x25c very good last winter as I mentioned. Ran them all winter and they have oodles of miles still left in them for next. They are durable, puncture resistant and have good grip. Also have nice low RR and they weigh 205g in the 700x25c variant. I might also mention that they are cheap! Schwalbe also make good tyres in 700x25c (Stelvio, replaced by the Durano or the Ultremo for a top-end tyre.)

I had a Zaffiro in 700x28c that lasted for an age. Not as nice a tyre though. The Rubino is meant to be a bit better in terms of ride quality, considered it but never used it though.

A lot of the key to good grip in winter is moving to 700x25c tyres. Grip is much better. I would never run 700x23c in winter again having done this.

Chips Lovell

Food for thought there. I'll add the Maxxis to the shortlist. Where do you buy yours blorg?

The Zaffiros are marketed as designed for wet weather, plus they're dirt cheap. The Rubinos are available in 700x25 though.

Chips Lovell

Ah, found the Maxxis on CRC.

ednwireland

i use the maxxis re-fuse on the commuter and they are pretty good

godihatedehills

GP4000s ftw. If it ain't broke don't fix it....

ROK ON

@LastGasp. I don't have that issue with the campy glove. There is no inner liner that comes out in mine. The are a one piece thin fitting fleecelined winter glove.
Best glove I have.

Chips Lovell

GP4000s are about €40 a pop in most places at the moment. I'd definitely go back to them or Vittoria Pave for summer tyres, but was thinking of something cheaper and longer lasting for winter.

godihatedehills

el tonto wrote: »

GP4000s are about €40 a pop in most places at the moment. I'd definitely go back to them or Vittoria Pave for summer tyres, but was thinking of something cheaper and longer lasting for winter.

€38. Which is €76 twice a year. If you went with rubinos you'd save €36. Is it really worth it if you end up in A&E?

Chips Lovell

Yeah, the A&E trip is one thing I'm trying to avoid, which is why I'm probably going to not bother with the Gators. This is what's leaning me towards the Vittorias. Every Vittoria tyre I've tried to date has held the road incredibly well.

ROK ON

They are the best selling road tyre around. I think there is a reason for that.

el tonto wrote: »

GP4000s are about €40 a pop in most places at the moment. I'd definitely go back to them or Vittoria Pave for summer tyres, but was thinking of something cheaper and longer lasting for winter.

godihatedehills

I have a new rubino if you want to try it. I have no need for winter tyres this winter.....

Chips Lovell

ROK ON wrote: »

They are the best selling road tyre around. I think there is a reason for that.

Another reason I'm looking around is that they're not available in 25mm

godihatedehills wrote: »

I have a new rubino if you want to try it. I have no need for winter tyres this winter.....

I may very well take you up on that.

Murph100

FWIW in the wet apparently Vitt Corsa EVO = EVIL ( and not in a good way )

el tonto wrote: »

Yeah, the A&E trip is one thing I'm trying to avoid, which is why I'm probably going to not bother with the Gators. This is what's leaning me towards the Vittorias. Every Vittoria tyre I've tried to date has held the road incredibly well.

Chips Lovell

Murph100 wrote: »

FWIW in the wet apparently Vitt Corsa EVO = EVIL ( and not in a good way )

Funnily enough, that hasn't been my experience. The tubular Corsas and clincher Paves have been the two Vittoria tyres I've run to date.

Murph100

Thats interesting, I purposely went for the Veloflex Cora 22 clincher over the Vitt Corsas, as I heard from a good few riders about them being sketchy in the wet. Gotta give 'em a spin so then

BTW the Paves aint a bad price on Wiggle at the mo :

http://www.wiggle.co.uk/p/cycle/7/Vittoria_Open_Pave_Evo_CG_Road_Tyre/5360035176

el tonto wrote: »

Funnily enough, that hasn't been my experience. The tubular Corsas and clincher Paves have been the two Vittoria tyres I've run to date.