Enda Kenny and the economy.

BeeDI

So the bold Enda Kenny, has stated over the week end, that in power he would need 10 years to fix the economy.
He will not increase taxes, other than introducing water charges once meters have been installed.
He will not reduce capital expenditure!

He will find savings, broadly in line with current government estimates needs to be saved.

Therfore the savings must come 100% from current spending.

HOWEVER, he will not say from which parts of current spending the cuts will come.

Would you vote for this idiot, as an alternative to the current idiot?
Or is the idiot you know better than the idiot you don't know?

syklops

BeeDI wrote: »

So the bold Enda Kenny, has stated over the week end, that in power he would need 10 years to fix the economy.
He will not increase taxes, other than introducing water charges once meters have been installed.
He will not reduce capital expenditure!

He will find savings, broadly in line with current government estimates needs to be saved.

Therfore the savings must come 100% from current spending.

HOWEVER, he will not say from which parts of current spending the cuts will come.

Would you vote for this idiot, as an alternative to the current idiot?
Or is the idiot you know better than the idiot you don't know?

Yep, I'll be voting for him when the time comes.

Do me a favour, go onto finegael.ie and read Fine Gaels policies. Then come back on and tell us which ones you disagree with.

MrDarcy

BeeDI wrote: »

So the bold Enda Kenny, has stated over the week end, that in power he would need 10 years to fix the economy.
He will not increase taxes, other than introducing water charges once meters have been installed.
He will not reduce capital expenditure!

He will find savings, broadly in line with current government estimates needs to be saved.

Therfore the savings must come 100% from current spending.

HOWEVER, he will not say from which parts of current spending the cuts will come.

Would you vote for this idiot, as an alternative to the current idiot?
Or is the idiot you know better than the idiot you don't know?

It's a very sad reflection on the rest of us that he feels secure and safe enough in these times to be coming out with such absolute and utter horsesh*t.

We need a complete political renewal, the Kenny's and the Cowens and the Gilmore's of this country who have been talking out of both sides of their arseh*les for years, need to be eradicated.

I genuinely feel that civil unrest is just around the corner in this country, I hope when it happens and I will be protesting when it does, that people stand up and say that they've had enough of this sh*t.

whatawaster

I will vote for FG in the next election, barring the emergence of another party in the coming months.

They clearly have their heads in the sand regarding the cuts that need to be made, but I’ll be voting for them on the following grounds:

- I will not vote for Fianna Fail
- I will not vote for Labour
- I like Fine Gael’s FairCare Health policy
- I like that they have some forward-thinking plans to develop infrastructure in telecommunications, energy and water.

I’ll probably give second preference to the Green Party. Despite their sins.

wowa

'I genuinely feel that civil unrest is just around the corner in this country, I hope when it happens and I will be protesting when it does, that people stand up and say that they've had enough of this sh*t.'


.......or, we'll just roll over and take it like we have for generations!

If no protests yet, after what has proven to be a thoroughly vile banking/political system, and billions stolen from our children's generation what is it gonna take to tip the balance??

whatawaster

He is right though. It probably will take a decade or more to sort the economy out.

MrDarcy

whatawaster wrote: »

I’ll probably give second preference to the Green Party. Despite their sins.

You shouldn't be allowed to vote.

syklops

whatawaster wrote: »

They clearly have their heads in the sand regarding the cuts that need to be made, but I’ll be voting for them on the following grounds:

No, they are being smart, and no talking about what cuts they would make. No matter which area of the social bill they cut, it will hurt someone, so why talk about it now before the election?

fontanalis

10 years? Wow, ireland will have turned hundreds of corners by then.
At least he's trying to tell people there's no quick fix.

amacachi

syklops wrote: »

Do me a favour, go onto finegael.ie and read Fine Gaels policies. Then come back on and tell us which ones you disagree with.

Will they be in power on their own? No, so their policies will veer more towards Labour's policies should FG get in.

99nsr125

I don't see why he's being criticised, he's just being honest, the one
thing everybody constantly barks on about politictians not being.

It took nearly a decade for unemployment to come down from ~ 13% to 5% from '92 - '00

http://sdw.ecb.europa.eu/quickview.do?SERIES_KEY=132.STS.M.IE.S.UNEH.RTT000.4.000

and that was in the period now recognised as the
bona fida celtic tiger of export growth, stable interest rates and low inflation.
There is absolutely no way we'll be able recreate those conditions of that time again any time soon

It WILL take 10 years to bring unemployment back down to circa 5.0%
again. If every single school leaver emigrated for the next 5 years that'd take 350k people otta the system but it'd still take 5 years.

MrDarcy

99nsr125 wrote: »

I don't see why he's being criticised, he's just being honest, the one
thing everybody constantly barks on about politictians not being.

It took nearly a decade for unemployment to come down from ~ 13% to 5% from '92 - '00

http://sdw.ecb.europa.eu/quickview.do?SERIES_KEY=132.STS.M.IE.S.UNEH.RTT000.4.000

and that was in the period now recognised as the
bona fida celtic tiger of export growth, stable interest rates and low inflation.
There is absolutely no way we'll be able recreate those conditions of that time again any time soon

It WILL take 10 years to bring unemployment back down to circa 5.0%
again. If every single school leaver emigrated for the next 5 years that'd take 350k people otta the system but it'd still take 5 years.

He needs to stop talking out of his arsehole about ten years down the road and start coming up with a credible strategy NOW to get people spending again and to get entrepreneurs starting up new businesses again. I'm not interested in how long he reckons it'll take to straighten this place out. I'm more interested in how he is going to get people spending money again in the economy and how he intends to capitalise small business start-ups which will create jobs.

There is a very negative psychological cloud hanging over this country now and it is having a very real and very negative effect on the economy, which is now completely on it's t*ts. People are absolutely terrified, people are angry in a way that I've never seen before in this country.

The vast majority of us gained nothing from the Celtic Tiger apart from a few nights out with work when employers were wining and dining staff a lot more and a bit more disposible income in our pockets. Other than that, all I can remember about the Celtic Tiger is that I, nor none of my friends couldn't afford to buy a house in the county that we was born in, that and endless traffic jams everywhere you looked.

Now we learn that we are going to have to pay for the madness of that era, and the people giving us this message are the same shower of slimy corrupt sc*m that caused this whole mess.

I'll accept nothing less than a competent person from now on to run this country, and a man who reckons that the way forward for the country is to compensate anyone who might have a vote, I won't be having a f*cking bar of this nonsense and nobody else should either.

We ought to know a gombeen now when we see one in this country and a man who reckons that he was born to lead a country, I suggest shouldn't be let next nor near a political party...

Liam Byrne

I agree wholeheartedly with a lot of what you say above.

MrDarcy wrote: »

I'll accept nothing less than a competent person from now on to run this country

Let's assume for a second that we all decide not to vote for "the best of a bad lot", so.

Who do you suggest as this competent person ?

MrDarcy

Liam Byrne wrote: »

I agree wholeheartedly with a lot of what you say above.



Let's assume for a second that we all decide not to vote for "the best of a bad lot", so.

Who do you suggest as this competent person ?

There isn't one unfortunately, the only one I can see there is Richard Bruton, I was absolutely furious when I saw what happened there because just for a second I saw a glimmer of hope for us, then it was sniffed out by the same very type of vested interest selfish maneuverings that have led us into this wholesale mess that we are now in. Yet again the common good was set completely aside, to the furtherance of a few FG politicians who reckoned that their career would go further under Kenny. How is the national good best served by that approach to selecting people for extremely important roles, and now that party want my vote?!?!?!?!?

The point I'm trying to make is that we need to send FG a message too. We can't just see FF as the problem here. We need to send a loud clear message that we no longer tolerate the furtherance of narrow vested interests over the measurable delivery of the common good to us. We no longer tolerate mediocracy when it comes to the governance of this country, if this message given to FG in great enough numbers, Kenny would have to go and we might have some hope... As for the Labour, Jack O' Connor & David Begg flavour of political patronage, I wouldn't be having a bar of that sh*t either...

99nsr125

I wasn't taking sides, I am surprised that someone has actually started to tell the truth about what an uphill slog we face

MrDarcy wrote: »

He needs to stop talking out of his arsehole about ten years down the road and start coming up with a credible strategy NOW to get people spending again and to get entrepreneurs starting up new businesses again.

They have some credible policies, I've read through some of them, I've also read through the Conservative's Manifesto, Liberals and Nationals
and so on. However they're not in government and by the way we vote FF could be back in after 2012.

MrDarcy wrote: »

I'm not interested in how long he reckons it'll take to straighten this place out.

Knowing what lies ahead allows people to make better decisions.

Businesses have 3,5 and 10 year plans, parents have college funds for children, most of us have studied for exams or submitted projects.

MrDarcy wrote: »

I'm more interested in how he is going to get people spending money again in the economy and how he intends to capitalise small business start-ups which will create jobs.

Yeah I know I wonder about this too, consumer spending is akin to musical chairs, money flows but nobody, well very few end up better off. The indiginous companies are where the action is, the Germans, French, Danes, Dutch, Norwegians etc all know it.

MrDarcy wrote: »

The vast majority of us gained nothing from the Celtic Tiger apart from a few nights out with work when employers were wining and dining staff a lot more and a bit more disposible income in our pockets. Other than that, all I can remember about the Celtic Tiger is that I, nor none of my friends couldn't afford to buy a house in the county that we was born in, that and endless traffic jams everywhere you looked.

We did make some (albeit at a sometimes shockingly inflated price) benefits our road network is vastly better, our water network is vastly better, our health system is vastly better. There has been lots of gains however not nearly enough and how long these remain free at point of use is questionable.

MrDarcy wrote: »

Now we learn that we are going to have to pay for the madness of that era, and the people giving us this message are the same shower of slimy corrupt sc*m that caused this whole mess.

I'll accept nothing less than a competent person from now on to run this country, and a man who reckons that the way forward for the country is to compensate anyone who might have a vote, I won't be having a f*cking bar of this nonsense and nobody else should either.

Just remeber that sentiment and remember to vote!

syklops

There isn't one unfortunately, the only one I can see there is Richard Bruton, I was absolutely furious when I saw what happened there because just for a second I saw a glimmer of hope for us, then it was sniffed out by the same very type of vested interest selfish maneuverings that have led us into this wholesale mess that we are now in. Yet again the common good was set completely aside, to the furtherance of a few FG politicians who reckoned that their career would go further under Kenny. How is the national good best served by that approach to selecting people for extremely important roles, and now that party want my vote?!?!?!?!?

I personally believe that Richard Bruton has the best financial mind in any irish government, but we need him in Finance, not distracted by being leader of the party.

Like him or not Enda Kenny is a smart guy, and he knows his weaknesses. If Richard Bruton suggests something, I believe Enda Kenny will follow his advice.

Richard Bruton leading the party is not in the best interest of the country in my opinion, because he needs to be focused on finance. Not bogged down in Education issues, and Health issues, and all the other things a Taoiseach deals with day to day.

coletti

syklops wrote: »

Richard Bruton leading the party is not in the best interest of the country in my opinion, because he needs to be focused on finance. Not bogged down in Education issues, and Health issues, and all the other things a Taoiseach deals with day to day.

I suppose it was Mrs. Thatcher who created the myth that Prime Ministers spend all day and most of the night working "hard" on behalf of their country, rarely resting and hardly having time to break for a 10 minute supper before rushing back to toiling away all night at a desk with an anglepoise lamp and a fountain pen with a scratchy nib.

The reality, alas, is somewhat different. Prime Ministers generally, and ours especially, are pampered and cosseted in a way that would make any of the French Kings positively green with envy. They are puffed up with self importance as they are waited upon by teams of advisers, ministers, drivers, security officials, secretarial staff, personal assistants, researchers, mandarins, make up artists and servants, publicity officials and countless others to tend to their every need. Any work necessary is done by others and the Prime minister only required to make decisions from time to time.

George Orwell 1982

I had a look at Fine Gael policies on the fiscal deficit here and nowhere do they say where they would actually make cuts to reduce the deficit. They talk about tax breaks for business to create jobs and a stimulus package. This would most likely make the deficit larger and not create many jobs in the current climate. They are not being realistic or honest.

syklops

George Orwell 1982 wrote: »

I had a look at Fine Gael policies on the fiscal deficit here and nowhere do they say where they would actually make cuts to reduce the deficit. They talk about tax breaks for business to create jobs and a stimulus package. This would most likely make the deficit larger and not create many jobs in the current climate. They are not being realistic or honest.

We are heading into an election, it could be as early as March(according to some). Fine Gael would be crazy to propose actual specific cuts, because no matter where they cut, they are alienating themselves from that sector. Alienating themselves from potential voters.

If they say they are going to cut Defence spending, then few members of the Defence forces will vote for them. That could be a loss of 30,000 votes right there.

If they say they are going to cut Education spending, then few teachers, and let's face it few Parents will vote for them.

There is a budget in December where FF will make 3Bn in cuts. I can see their popularity rating falling into fractions. FG dont want any of that pain, so they dont mention any cuts they are going to make.

R P McMurphy

MrDarcy wrote: »

There isn't one unfortunately, the only one I can see there is Richard Bruton, I was absolutely furious when I saw what happened there because just for a second I saw a glimmer of hope for us, then it was sniffed out by the same very type of vested interest selfish maneuverings that have led us into this wholesale mess that we are now in. Yet again the common good was set completely aside, to the furtherance of a few FG politicians who reckoned that their career would go further under Kenny. How is the national good best served by that approach to selecting people for extremely important roles, and now that party want my vote?!?!?!?!?

The point I'm trying to make is that we need to send FG a message too. We can't just see FF as the problem here. We need to send a loud clear message that we no longer tolerate the furtherance of narrow vested interests over the measurable delivery of the common good to us. We no longer tolerate mediocracy when it comes to the governance of this country, if this message given to FG in great enough numbers, Kenny would have to go and we might have some hope... As for the Labour, Jack O' Connor & David Begg flavour of political patronage, I wouldn't be having a bar of that sh*t either...

Excellent post and sums up exactly what is wrong and the dilema that people face in teh next election. People want change but not the sort of change on offer eThat Fine Gael are unwilliing to get rid of a leader that no one else wants does not bode well for the future should they lead the country next

The_Honeybadger

George Orwell 1982 wrote: »

I had a look at Fine Gael policies on the fiscal deficit here and nowhere do they say where they would actually make cuts to reduce the deficit. They talk about tax breaks for business to create jobs and a stimulus package. This would most likely make the deficit larger and not create many jobs in the current climate. They are not being realistic or honest.

Yes and as soon as they are in power we will get a statement saying that things are much worse than FF led us to believe and XYZ will need to be done to get our budget back in balance. They are saying what they have to say, I would vote for a party that was being honest and laid out exactly what they would do to try and fix our problems. Labour absolutely infuriate me with their nonsense, cribbing and moaning about everything the government ever propose, but never proposing any credible policies themselves. I think FG will get in next time purely because they are not FF, and not on the basis of their policies. I also like their Faircare policy, but we all know how change is welcomed in the HSE.

jmayo

syklops wrote: »

I personally believe that Richard Bruton has the best financial mind in any irish government, but we need him in Finance, not distracted by being leader of the party.

Like him or not Enda Kenny is a smart guy, and he knows his weaknesses. If Richard Bruton suggests something, I believe Enda Kenny will follow his advice.

Richard Bruton leading the party is not in the best interest of the country in my opinion, because he needs to be focused on finance. Not bogged down in Education issues, and Health issues, and all the other things a Taoiseach deals with day to day.

Bruton's failing were shown when he moved against Kenny.
Burton might be good at Finance and I do think if all things were equal he should eventually get that job, but I don't think he is leadership material.
He may appeal to the political followers on here, to the media, but can he do it ?
I don't think so.

Like him or loath him, which is really surprising how many actually hate him for no more reason than they have been led to it by the media, Kenny has balls.
The last time someone faced down a revolt of that size was one cj haughey, who like him or loath him was a very shrewd politican.

Kenny looked as if he was totally screwed with his front bench, but he found a way of totally subverting them.
Now he showed more politcal accumen in that move than the entire so called golden front bench that revolted did.

The sad thing about that revolt was how poor the front bench of FG are, and that is what scares me the most.

syklops

^^ Great post!

coletti

R P McMurphy wrote: »

Excellent post and sums up exactly what is wrong and the dilema that people face in teh next election. People want change but not the sort of change on offer eThat Fine Gael are unwilliing to get rid of a leader that no one else wants does not bode well for the future should they lead the country next

I'm afraid none of the politicians in Ireland fill me with much confidence, and the "choice" between Fianna Fail and Fine Gael really is no real choice at all.

The political culture here is so corrupted that it really matters little who we get as leader or finance minister. What we have to do is obvious, and that is to cut government spending to a point where we don't have to borrow money every year to pay the bills the governments always seem so keen to incur on our behalf.

That would not be politically acceptable to all the vested interests, so we keep borrowing more and more money to pay the bills, and muddle through until we hope something will happen to stop the whole country eventually being bankrupted.

No politican dare outline the truth because he would be hounded frmo office by the same sort of people who vote in Beverley Cooper Flynn and Michael Lowry with increasing majorities every election.

The sad truth is that the Irish people seem incapable of governing themselves, voting in rotten and corrupt politicians, and have got to the stage where most of our politicians are so cosseted and removed from everyday life that they have more in common with King Louis XVI and Marie Antoinette than they have with reality in Ireland.

We, too, need a revolution to change our rotten political system, which is incapable of reforming itself.

jmayo

coletti wrote: »

I'm afraid none of the politicians in Ireland fill me with much confidence, and the "choice" between Fianna Fail and Fine Gael really is no real choice at all.

I do not agree with this and you are falling into the mindset that ff resort to when all else fails them.
They have similar policies, but if you look at it Labour's policies are not a hundred miles away either.
The biggest difference is at least FG and Labour have some morals and ethics, unlike ff who have proven they have absolutely none.
To me that is major difference and one to rewarded not punished.

ff are trying to spin it that they all would have done the same.
There is no proof of that and resorting to that just shows how desperate they are to find excuses for their own behaviour.
Sadly lots of the irish voting public appear to buy into it. :mad:

coletti wrote: »

The political culture here is so corrupted that it really matters little who we get as leader or finance minister. What we have to do is obvious, and that is to cut government spending to a point where we don't have to borrow money every year to pay the bills the governments always seem so keen to incur on our behalf.

That would not be politically acceptable to all the vested interests, so we keep borrowing more and more money to pay the bills, and muddle through until we hope something will happen to stop the whole country eventually being bankrupted.

No politican dare outline the truth because he would be hounded frmo office by the same sort of people who vote in Beverley Cooper Flynn and Michael Lowry with increasing majorities every election.

The sad truth is that the Irish people seem incapable of governing themselves, voting in rotten and corrupt politicians, and have got to the stage where most of our politicians are so cosseted and removed from everyday life that they have more in common with King Louis XVI and Marie Antoinette than they have with reality in Ireland.

We, too, need a revolution to change our rotten political system, which is incapable of reforming itself.

Very true sadly.

SkepticOne

jmayo wrote: »

The last time someone faced down a revolt of that size was one cj haughey, who like him or loath him was a very shrewd politican.

Proof that political shrewdness needs to be treated with suspicion by the electorate especially in connection with the economy.

jmayo

SkepticOne wrote: »

Proof that political shrewdness needs to be treated with suspicion by the electorate especially in connection with the economy.

And I am no fan of haughey as I believe he was the guy that really set the seeds of what ff became.
But he was also the guy who actually did start the ball rolling towards the great celtic tiger economy of the 90s that lasted upto 2001.

And he could not have done it without the help of the quisling alan dukes who has sadly flittered away his legacy by leading the Anglo shambles. :mad:

Tora Bora

jmayo wrote: »

And I am no fan of haughey as I believe he was the guy that really set the seeds of what ff became.
But he was also the guy who actually did start the ball rolling towards the great celtic tiger economy of the 90s that lasted upto 2001.

And he could not have done it without the help of the quisling alan dukes who has sadly flittered away his legacy by leading the Anglo shambles. :mad:

This is the guy, whose statue should one day grace the front gates of the Dail

jmayo

Tora Bora wrote: »

This is the guy, whose statue should one day grace the front gates of the Dail

I wouldn't go so far as to put a statue of him up but I do think he is sadly slightly forgotten.
Compared to his ff sucessors he quietly went about his business and made the necessary changes.

Again haughey's hand was forced by the IMF and quisling dukes helped by not playing politics.
Even if I detest haughey for his corruption and lack of morals and ethics you have to say when he set out to do something he actually made a fair stab at doing it.

ahern and cowen were/are pitiful and whereas ahern was blessed with fine sailing weather, cowen has had nothing but squals.
Of course he was the guy that navigated us into these waters. :rolleyes:

unit 1

syklops wrote: »

I personally believe that Richard Bruton has the best financial mind in any irish government, but we need him in Finance, not distracted by being leader of the party.

Like him or not Enda Kenny is a smart guy, and he knows his weaknesses. If Richard Bruton suggests something, I believe Enda Kenny will follow his advice.

Richard Bruton leading the party is not in the best interest of the country in my opinion, because he needs to be focused on finance. Not bogged down in Education issues, and Health issues, and all the other things a Taoiseach deals with day to day.

Absolutely 100% correct. Now why in the hell can't all the Bruton supporters and Kenny detractors see this as it is so blindingly obvious.

flutered

for the same reason that ff followers keep praising clown cowen, they cant see the wood from the trees.