No penalty points for speeders as cameras are tested

I.S.T.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/no-penalty-points-for-speeders-as-cameras-are-tested-2335250.html

"Gardai stress the aim is not to catch drivers speeding, but to get them to slow down."

So if the aim is not to catch drivers, just to get them to slow down, then why use covert methods?

No penalty points for speeders as cameras are tested

By Treacy Hogan
Monday September 13 2010

SOME motorists who thought they were caught speeding may have nothing to worry about -- and will not be hit with penalty points.

Gatso vans with cameras being operated by the new private speed-camera service are currently out at high-risk crash locations as equipment is tested in advance of 'going live' this November.

Drivers who recently witnessed "a flash" from these vans may have presumed their speed had been checked by an unmarked garda Gatso van. However, the privately-operated test checks will not result in fines or penalty points.

The testing is set to continue all next month.

Local authorities are to erect hundreds of speed-camera zone warning signs before the operation officially starts, the Irish Independent has also learnt.

The GoSafe service, which had been due to start next month, is now expected to 'go live' at the start of November, sources have confirmed.

In the meantime, any motorists 'caught' during the tests, need not worry -- unless, of course, they are nabbed by gardai in similar unmarked vans.

More than 50 high-roof vans, and up to five different models, have been bought.

It has also been learnt that these will be of mixed colours so that they can be deployed in covert operations to target so-called boy racers in the early hours of the morning. The new vans will have the capability of instant uploading, so speed offenders will get their fine notices much earlier, it was also learnt.

Senior sources said yesterday: "They are out testing at the moment at the collision-prone zones. Drivers may be seeing a flash, but this is purely testing the equipment. However, they must remember that gardai are also out there checking speed and it may be one of their vans."

The source said that local authorities would be putting up speed-camera zones at strategic locations along the network of 600 high-risk areas.

Reduction

Gardai stress the aim is not to catch drivers speeding, but to get them to slow down.

Privately-operated vans will be sent to each of the 26 garda divisions nationwide and the private consortium GoSafe will be paid by the hour, not per offender detected.

They will film 6,000 hours every month.

Speed checks will also also be conducted in darkness for the first time.

Road deaths fell by 40pc in France and 30pc in Sweden when similar schemes were introduced.

The target is for a reduction of 50 more road deaths here each year after the cameras are put in place.

Research published yesterday showed that speeding was directly responsible for 80 deaths on Irish roads last year.

- Treacy Hogan

mullingar

So they are hoping to reduce road deaths from 241 in 2009, minus 80 that died as a direct result from speeding to total of 161 in 2011?

Get real.

Better off putting that money to better use, eg Suicide Prevention

Its all revenue generation IMO

Cookie_Monster

So if these vans "catch" you going 200kph they still let you off will they

Tipp Man

Are the locations at which the private vans are going to be parked to be made public?

I assume they will have very little to do with motorways as there are very few incidents on motorways

Cookie_Monster

Tipp Man wrote: »

I assume they will have very little to do with motorways as there are very few incidents on motorways

:pac::pac::pac::pac::pac::pac::pac:
No money to be made on backroads

I.S.T.

Tipp Man wrote: »

Are the locations at which the private vans are going to be parked to be made public?

I assume they will have very little to do with motorways as there are very few incidents on motorways

You must be joking. From the article:

It has also been learnt that these will be of mixed colours so that they can be deployed in covert operations to target so-called boy racers in the early hours of the morning

Anan1

IrishSpeedTraps wrote: »

So if the aim is not to catch drivers, just to get them to slow down, then why use covert methods?

Why do people keep trotting out this old chestnut? Deterrence.:)

L1011

Different colours aren't likely to make them hard to distinguish, high roof LWB vans with vents and sidelights parked in gateways generally only have one purpose...

gofaster_s13

MYOB wrote: »

Different colours aren't likely to make them hard to distinguish, high roof LWB vans with vents and sidelights parked in gateways generally only have one purpose...

Some of the new privately owned Gatso vans are in Citroen Dispatchs, they also have the capability of tripod mounting the small camera unit and remotely operating it from the van;)

Nuttzz

Anan1 wrote: »

Why do people keep trotting out this old chestnut? Deterrence.:)

Its not deterrence, if I am stopped by the gardai I know I have been speeding and from that point drive more likely to continue my journey within the limit, if I am zapped by a gatso van I can continue on my journey at 180kph and plough into someone down the road.

Cookie_Monster

Plus these night time cameras will actually increase danger IMO. The flash going off will temporarily blind or at least startle many drivers. The other half had the flash go off on her at UCD a few months back, partially blinded for a couple of seconds.

Anan1

Nuttzz wrote: »

Its not deterrence, if I am stopped by the gardai I know I have been speeding and from that point drive more likely to continue my journey within the limit, if I am zapped by a gatso van I can continue on my journey at 180kph and plough into someone down the road.

That would make perfect sense - if your driving career encompassed only one day.

101sean

Don't know what cameras they are using here but in the UK forward facing cameras (ie taking picture of front of car) inc all moble units do not flash, only rear facing GATSOs flash AFAIK.

Loads of technical camera stuff over on www.pocketgps.co.uk, their European camera database covers here.

seensensee

No worries, lets keep it safe out there...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_mCMIK1_dkM

johnos1984

I know speed camera detectors are illegal but out of interest do they pick up the signal from their covert vans?

seensensee

johnos1984 wrote: »

I know speed camera detectors are illegal but out of interest do they pick up the signal from their covert vans?

I'm not sure but this site has loads of info on the subject... plus some:D...

Britain's most senior traffic policeman is to be prosecuted for speeding, his force said on Tuesday.
Meredydd Hughes, head of roads policing for the Association of Chief Police Officers (Acpo), was allegedly caught driving at 90mph in a 60mph zone in North Wales while on holiday last May.
A spokeswoman for South Yorkshire Police said: "Chief Constable Meredydd Hughes has received a notice of prosecution in respect of an alleged driving offence in North Wales in the early morning of a bank holiday Monday in May while on holiday.
http://www.ukspeedtraps.co.uk/news.htm

yardeyar

Hi
Are there any pictures of these private camera vans?
Will the vans have "Logo" on them like the UK?
YEAH!

101sean

The Traffic Taliban in Wales, especially North Wales, are notorious for their hardline approach although 90 in a 60 was a bit dumb. My own dumb thing a few years back was not to notice 2 camera vans 30 miles apart on the M4/A40, got done twice for 84 on a very quiet motorway on a Sunday (obviously a very dangerous place to drive over the limit :rolleyes:)

Mate of mine in the UK used to have a both a scanner and a jammer (claimed it was a garage door remote), not only illegal to use but you can also get done for perverting the course of justice :eek:

L1011

101sean wrote: »

Don't know what cameras they are using here but in the UK forward facing cameras (ie taking picture of front of car) inc all moble units do not flash, only rear facing GATSOs flash AFAIK.

Loads of technical camera stuff over on www.pocketgps.co.uk, their European camera database covers here.

The existing Garda vans (think I've seen an AGS member on here refer to them as 'ROBOT') are forward facing, and flash. You won't notice in full daylight but I've seen them go off in wet weather conditions.

Del2005

johnos1984 wrote: »

I know speed camera detectors are illegal but out of interest do they pick up the signal from their covert vans?

Depending on model they'll detect them all. But the overflow from the modern laser speed guns is tiny so generally by the time the detector warns you and you slow down you have already been done for speeding. The old radar guns had a huge overflow so you had plenty of warning with them.

101sean wrote: »

Mate of mine in the UK used to have a both a scanner and a jammer (claimed it was a garage door remote), not only illegal to use but you can also get done for perverting the course of justice :eek:

AFAIK scanners are legal in the UK, jammers must definitely aren't.

mondeo

Del2005 wrote: »

Depending on model they'll detect them all. But the overflow from the modern laser speed guns is tiny so generally by the time the detector warns you and you slow down you have already been done for speeding. The old radar guns had a huge overflow so you had plenty of warning with them.



AFAIK scanners are legal in the UK, jammers must definitely aren't.

No Scanners are banned in the UK now, only the Gps based ones are alowed.

NewApproach

Guys, I know these yokes are illegal, so obviously I wouldn't use one, but purely out of curiosity, would one of these pickup the relevant signals in time to slow down?

Valentine V1 radar detector, I have read that they are the nuts.

Del2005

NewApproach wrote: »

Guys, I know these yokes are illegal, so obviously I wouldn't use one, but purely out of curiosity, would one of these pickup the relevant signals in time to slow down?

Valentine V1 radar detector, I have read that they are the nuts.

That's a radar detector, no good for laser speed guns.

The radar detectors used to warn you to slow down as the beam from the radar is huge at 300m and goes around several cars. The beam from the laser at 300m isn't much bigger then the front of a car, so when they laser the vehicle in front of you there isn't any overspill to warn you. When you get the warning from a laser detector, and you react, they've already got your speed. Then there are hundreds of false warnings from automatic doors etc.

NewApproach

Del2005 wrote: »

That's a radar detector, no good for laser speed guns.

The radar detectors used to warn you to slow down as the beam from the radar is huge at 300m and goes around several cars. The beam from the laser at 300m isn't much bigger then the front of a car, so when they laser the vehicle in front of you there isn't any overspill to warn you. When you get the warning from a laser detector, and you react, they've already got your speed. Then there are hundreds of false warnings from automatic doors etc.

Are the new cameras not gatsos though? Which, iirc, use radar.

Del2005

NewApproach wrote: »

Are the new cameras not gatsos though? Which, iirc, use radar.

Gatso is a brand. They may use radar but I doubt it as laser is quicker and much more accurate for mobile use.

yardeyar

Hi
Are there any pictures of these private camera vans?
Will the vans have "Logos" on them like the UK?
YEAH!

yardeyar

Anyone know what make of vans will be used, Ford, Fiat etc......

daRobot

Del2005 wrote: »

Gatso is a brand. They may use radar but I doubt it as laser is quicker and much more accurate for mobile use.

Gatsos both Fixed and Mobile use Radar. 100% sure.

Laser is for Handheld guns, and Tripods.

dunsandin

Happy to read this as I passsed a 10 reg transit, camerad up, on a dead straight road with a 60kph limit, doing 70kph on the way to a job last night, and was raging that i'd probably got zapped. Dumbest speed limit ever- road is good, dead straight, and its 60. All the litttle boreens going off it are signposted as 80kph. WTF is that all about?? 60 on the good bit, 80 on the windy little bog roads. The gattersod van was well in, nicely hidden by bushes, hard to spot til you were on top of it. They are gonna take a lot of money with this wheeze, cos I was going the slowest of anyone on that stretch, and I was well over the limit.

gofaster_s13

Del2005 wrote: »

That's a radar detector, no good for laser speed guns.

The radar detectors used to warn you to slow down as the beam from the radar is huge at 300m and goes around several cars. The beam from the laser at 300m isn't much bigger then the front of a car, so when they laser the vehicle in front of you there isn't any overspill to warn you. When you get the warning from a laser detector, and you react, they've already got your speed. Then there are hundreds of false warnings from automatic doors etc.

My Bell radar/laser detector never fails to warn me so long as they laser the car in front first:D and it always gives loads of warning for the Gatso's(generally before you even see it) I've never used it in this country though:D

yardeyar

Hey Dunsandin, it terrible the places that they park those vans, its just money they want, there not worried over road safety, just wondering had that 10 reg Transit any logos on it? Was it White?

dunsandin

No Yard, just a plain white transit, looked like a mwb med roof model, no logos, just the usual tint job back window with the camra set up in a clear square in the center. Sneaky feckers.

Hotwheels

dunsandin wrote: »

No Yard, just a plain white transit, looked like a mwb med roof model, no logos, just the usual tint job back window with the camra set up in a clear square in the center. Sneaky feckers.

One parked in the church carpark in Lackagh in Galway (N63) today, don't think this was testing. the reg was 09-D----

Lad in a Berlingo Van was going mental behind me as we entered village at 50K..soon changed his tune when he was Subtly made aware of the van.

dunsandin

Yeah, you gotta love the boys who go nuts behind you when you crawl along cos a mates phoned to warn of speedtrap, then they fly past all full of 9i55 aand vinegar, giving it loads out the window at you--- and then you see the big flare of brake lights as they cop whats on. Always makes me laugh.

limklad

I do not know why they have to use a flash during the day, It shows that the camera is of poor quality. Especially if they use a powerful flash to highlight the car during the day.

Flashes causes more than deterrent, it can cause accidents especially back roads where there is less space and distance to pull up or avoid any road obsoletes or bends.

1. At night it can cause temporary blindness, i.e causes a spot within the field of vision for moments after the flash occurs.
2. Temporary Distraction from driving i.e. the driver relies they been caught which takes attention from what in front of them.

Signs of Camera checks all over the road and penalty points with fines with photos do far more thinking in the minds of the driver in a safe location which is At Home and in the Court room.

Hotwheels

dunsandin wrote: »

Yeah, you gotta love the boys who go nuts behind you when you crawl along cos a mates phoned to warn of speedtrap, then they fly past all full of 9i55 aand vinegar, giving it loads out the window at you--- and then you see the big flare of brake lights as they cop whats on. Always makes me laugh.

Anybody who uses the N63 regularly know they are there from time to time, Turloughmore, Abby Moylough, etc..More than 50K thru there, and you are asking to get points...

hit_killer

IrishSpeedTraps wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/no-penalty-points-for-speeders-as-cameras-are-tested-2335250.html

"Gardai stress the aim is not to catch drivers speeding, but to get them to slow down."

So if the aim is not to catch drivers, just to get them to slow down, then why use covert methods?

I was driving in dublin city late last night down the quays towards heuston station and one of those vans flashed me, i was doing 40 km in a (ridiculous) 30 km zone..am i gonna get fined and given points for that??? if so then thats totally crazy!!!

meercat

afraid so.
but sure, hasnt everyone got points now

Absurdum

meercat wrote: »

afraid so.
but sure, hasnt everyone got points now

nope


somehow

Fozzie Bear

yardeyar wrote: »

Hi Are there any pictures of these private camera vans? Will the vans have "Logos" on them like the UK? YEAH!

yardeyar wrote: »

Anyone know what make of vans will be used, Ford, Fiat etc......

The vans are not marked or logo'd. They are using a variety of makes, shapes, colours, sizes, LWB & SWB, years and reg's. It will be very hard to spot them unless you start to suspect every van you see pulled up at the side of the road.

We have dealings with Go Safe through work and one of our reps called into them last week and got the grand tour. They have split Ireland into Western and Eastern sectors. From Kerry to Donegal and Mayo to approx Athlone will be covered by 40 vans. The other Eastern half will be covered by another 40+ vans.

Trials will be on going for the next four weeks or so and they plan to be up and fully running by the start of December.

Just in time for the budget;) God knows they need the extra revenue....

Roanmore

I got a notice last week through the post about a speeding fine. I'm not disputing it and I'm going to pay it, 117 km/h in a 100 km/h zone on the Middleton dual carrigeway just after it went from 120 to 100 km/h (I know this because of the time I clocked out from work to when I was clocked on the speed notice). On the notice I got all it showed was my reg number, just wondering shoul it show me driving the car, yes / no and should it also show me doing the speed I was clocked at instead of the notice giving my plate and saying what speed I was caught at?

Del2005

You can request the picture. They don't send the full pic in case there is someone in the car who shouldn't be

yosser hughes

hit_killer wrote: »

I was driving in dublin city late last night down the quays towards heuston station and one of those vans flashed me, i was doing 40 km in a (ridiculous) 30 km zone..am i gonna get fined and given points for that??? if so then thats totally crazy!!!

Where exactly were you caught? If it was Victoria Quay at Guinness (that's where the vans usually are) then the speed limit there is actually 50kph. The speed limits on the quays vary. As far as I know DCC are considering abandoning the 30kph zone which starts at Church St/Bridge St. heading in.

hit_killer

yosser hughes wrote: »

Where exactly were you caught? If it was Victoria Quay at Guinness (that's where the vans usually are) then the speed limit there is actually 50kph. The speed limits on the quays vary. As far as I know DCC are considering abandoning the 30kph zone which starts at Church St/Bridge St. heading in.

It was actually just before that...literally metres perhaps before the zone changed to 50kph, what bugs me is that I have never actually seen any signs for 30kph, very sneaky indeed, how is that area on the quays considered a danger zone??? Money making racket.

AlekSmart

The vans are not marked or logo'd. They are using a variety of makes, shapes, colours, sizes, LWB & SWB, years and reg's. It will be very hard to spot them unless you start to suspect every van you see pulled up at the side of the road.

I had an interesting experience last week when overtaken at some speed by a white Transit at Leeson Street Bridge.....thought nothing of it except perhaps "another White vanman moment" until I found the lad out slapping GARDA magnetic vinyl logo`s on the side & rear of the yoke,stuckup,as it was,on the footpath on Morehampton Road......why bother ?

yardeyar

Hi, I was following a "Speed Camera Van" along Thomas Street Dublin which is a 50km/h speed limit and the van was doing well over 50km/h, one rule for them and one rule for the rest of us.
If you see any of these new speed camera vans maybe take a picture of it and post them on this sticky and we can have a database of the vans there using so we know what were watching out for!