stay in ireland or migrate

showmetheway

I am a 32 year old single man working in full-time employment earning 40k a year, I don't have a mortage or any dependents so I was wondering with the state the country is in and it looks as if its going to get worse whether I should leave my job and migrate to Australia or Canada, I know some people will say its mad to leave a permanent job but my job while safe for now there are never any guarantees,I am also looking for a better long term prospects?

ardmacha

You can be sure that you will receive lots of gloom and doom here. But because the short term prospects are not great, your long term prospects in Ireland may well be fine. A person who didn't emigrate in 1987 (say) would be in pretty good shape 10 or 12 years later.

JayEnnis

If you have a stable job then stay.

40k is plenty for someone with no dependents.

Arnold Layne

Leave when you don't have have a job and use your redundancy to help you out. Thats only if your employer pays more than statutory as you may have to wait a while before it gets sorted.

If you can get organised with a job, within your own field, and your take home pay is better then by all means get out now and explore pastures new.

Best Of Luck, but don't be fooled by grass being greener on t'other side!

Brussels Sprout

Do you have friends and family here? Do you have friends and family in your likely destination?

Moving abroad on you own is tough. While the thrill and novelty of being in a new place is brilliant after a while it wears off and if you're on your own things can be difficult. It can be pretty hard to make new friends and you'll be surprised how much you may miss your friends when you're gone. If you're very outgoing and make new friends easily then this won't be such an issue but it's something you should be aware of.

showmetheway

i have a brother whos been in aus the past 4 or 5 years

nadir

I'm in a very similar situation as the OP.

31 years old, no dependents, on around 40k, permanent job etc.
I'm renting here and never bought a place.

Anyway to make a long story short, got a new job abroad, will be leaving next month for the foreseeable future.
I got a much better salary and as far as I can see my prospective country has a lower tax rate, higher standard of living and MUCH better weather.
I think cost of living will also work out better.
I find here still way too expensive, I can't wait to get out, and finally looks like I can do it so I'm pretty happy.
There are really good opportunities out there if you havn't got anything holding you back, I think this country is going to go to the wall and I don't want to be here to pay off other peoples debt.

Mister men

40k. You should sit tight. That's a terrific wage.

Nolanger

Move to Oz - you can knock up a shelia and then do a runer back here. If you get an Irish lass in touble there goes the 40K on maintenance and legal costs.

BluePlanet

If you can get out, then you probably should.
What is there to look forward to, regarding living in Ireland for the next 10 years?

- more taxes for less services
- more grumpy faces providing those services
- strikes
- more social problems as a result of a depressed economy/people
- cheaper property
- lower wages

I'm sure there are positives in there, if you look long and hard.
But the point is, you shouldn't have to.

You may find you'll have to pay more taxes in another jursdiction, even on lower wage, but you'll most likely get first class services along with it.

The_Honeybadger

Many people would kill to be in the OP's situation, earning 40k with no dependants and no major financial obligations. If you feel you can do better abroad and would be happy there then go. However if you like living in Ireland, you are in a very good place financially compared to alot of people. I can't leave due to family reasons, but if I was in the 20-25 age bracket I'd probably be gone already tbh. It really is up to yourself and I don't think you will find the answer here. Personally I believe the standard of living in this country is gonna go way down in the coming years as we all pay more tax, and the country struggles with massive unemployment and debt problems, the feel good factor of the last decade is very much a thing of the past, other economies are in a much better place.

Fentdog84

Well it depends what type of industry you are in & if you're job is under threat you should keep one eye in the future, is it public/private sector? 40 k is a great wage especially if you are single theres lots of unemployed people with families & mortgages trying to survive on 4 times less than that so you should count yourself lucky. but all the same you are right to be concerned with the way things are going in this country at the moment.i mean the government are basically paying people to **** off now which is wrong because we are losing a lot of skilled & qualified people. what a mess! :rolleyes:

Zynks

Your biggest asset at the moment is your freedom to choose. There are many people who would love to be in your situation.

What would I do? I would probably go for a bit of adventure. You might not have many opportunities later on - family, mortgage, loans, etc. I did it when I was a bit younger than you and when I meet my old friends sometimes I get the feeling so much happened to me while their lives seems to be stuck in time...

mikemac

You're young, no mortgage and no dependents.

Head off and see somewhere new.
If you don't do it now, in five years you may be tied down with a family and mortgage and you will never do it.

Just keep a nest-egg maybe 10k stashed away so if you ever get stuck with unemployment or need money for apartment deposits on your return you won't be stuck.

It's not all doom and gloom, some areas in Ireland are doing well and paying bonuses.

So consider what area you work in, if it doesn't work out abroad you may get another 40k job on your return

mathie

BluePlanet wrote: »

If you can get out, then you probably should.
What is there to look forward to, regarding living in Ireland for the next 10 years?

- more taxes for less services
- more grumpy faces providing those services
- strikes
- more social problems as a result of a depressed economy/people
- cheaper property
- lower wages

I'm sure there are positives in there, if you look long and hard.
But the point is, you shouldn't have to.

You may find you'll have to pay more taxes in another jursdiction, even on lower wage, but you'll most likely get first class services along with it.

These two are a bad thing?!

1. Property is still way overpriced and needs to come down for people to be able to afford it.
2. We need to lower wages to become more competetive. Our minimum wages is 50% higher than the EU average.

jmayo

showmetheway wrote: »

i have a brother whos been in aus the past 4 or 5 years

Go join him.
It's a very nice country where you do actaully realise there is a sun.

Get out of this God forsaken banana republic.

All you are going to get here is more taxes, less services and more sh**.

Forget the s*** about how the quality of life is better here, it is not really.
Believe it or not they have pubs, clubs and beer in Oz as well.

Even though in Oz there are snakes, spiders, fish, etc that can kill you in hours, IMHO you die a slower death in this country.

And yes I would be long gone out of here, but for my other half who wants to stay close to family.

You have no ties so go now.
Travel and see the world.

BTW what part of Oz is your brother in ?

Brussels Sprout

jmayo wrote: »

Even though in Oz there are snakes, spiders, fish, etc that can kill you in hours, IMHO you die a slower death in this country.

And if that frightens the life out of you then go to NZ which doesn't have any of the above and whilst being a cooler climate than Australia is still far better than in Ireland (hot summers, cold winters and less rain). The wages are ****e though (in comparison to Oz).

Noffles

ardmacha wrote: »

You can be sure that you will receive lots of gloom and doom here. But because the short term prospects are not great, your long term prospects in Ireland may well be fine. A person who didn't emigrate in 1987 (say) would be in pretty good shape 10 or 12 years later.

So you're saying the OP shoud stick around for another 10 or 12 years as it "may well be fine" by then... this has to be a joke?? 10 - 12 years is a very long time to put up with the misery of a depression... especially in a country this size...
He should leave while he can enjoy the next 10 - 12 years elsewhere then maybe come back... and that's a HUGE maybe!

Zynks

I'll tell you what, do the intuition test:

Find a quiet room, close the door and chill for a short while, then say the following with conviction:

- I am going to <insert country name>

Take a few seconds to relax again, then say the following as if you had decided as such

- I am going to stay in Ireland

Now, how did you feel immediately after you said each statement? (let me know, I am curious)

This has worked for me many times, and I frequently regretted it when I didn't follow what my intuition said.

BluePlanet

mathie wrote: »

These two are a bad thing?!

1. Property is still way overpriced and needs to come down for people to be able to afford it.
2. We need to lower wages to become more competetive. Our minimum wages is 50% higher than the EU average.

I didn't express if i thought either of those were good or bad.

BTW your point number 1 is negated by your point number 2.
If property values fall along with wages then it still remains unaffordable.

Unless we can get property values to fall a lot more than peoples wages get lowered. But that kinda seems like wanting your cake and eating it too.

johnnyskeleton

BluePlanet wrote: »

- more taxes for less services
- more grumpy faces providing those services
- strikes
- more social problems as a result of a depressed economy/people
- cheaper property
- lower wages

I'm sure there are positives in there, if you look long and hard.
But the point is, you shouldn't have to.

Surely cheaper property is a positive?

BluePlanet

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

Surely cheaper property is a positive?

Yeah,
But why are you presuming i think otherwise?
Did you not read my very next sentence?

fontanalis

Face it, if you stay you're going to pay for the mistakes of chancers who wouldn't succeed as business men anywhere else.

nadir

I think it makes much more sense to leave if you possibly can.

As far as I can see, many other developed countries have

1) Lower Tax.
2) Better (Cheaper/Free) Healthcare.
3) Better Job prospects.
4) Better Public Transport.
5) Better Economy& better future prospects.
6) Cheaper cost of living.

Come to think of it, what actually keeps people here (bar family)?

maninasia

Ireland has one of the lowest tax regimes and is on the high end of pay scales for developed countries. The problem in Ireland is that is hard to get a job (among other issues pointed out above).

doolox

Go.

You will make friends abroad so unless you are in the GAA or Irish Music or Irish language related hobby you will not lose by going.

Go.
As stated before all taxpayers here will be screwed for the mistakes of others for the next 10 years, get out while you can.

Go.
Climates elsewhere are better.

Go.
There is a higher regard for foreign obtained work experience among Irish Employers than for native obtained work experience, especially if you can throw in langauge related skills or work in the far east, China etc which are growing fast. If you are stuck in a rut in your present job then getting a job abroad with a better chance of a series of promotional steps looks better on your CV and will get you a better job if you decide to return to Ireland. Practically everybody I know on big money spent time abroad widening their skills and become more rounded so they could demand and get more money.

Unless you have family ties here ,I'd go.

ILA

Stay
You can get the dole if you become unemployed and still put yourself to good use by getting involved in community projects, clubs, politics, and maybe actually be part of the rebuilding. You could even re-enter education and reach the next level in time for when things start picking up.

Stay
I imagine your family and friends are here, you'll get homesick after a short while and most of the time that doesn't go away no matter how hard you try to forget about home.

doolox

If the OP is thinking about emigrating then chances are he is not happy in his current job and is probably in a rut.
Chances are very high that in Ireland for the next few years there will be very high underemployment and lots of idle time between assignments even for those in work.

Being a small, restricted and shrinking market in most things people working only in Ireland will have less experience than those working abroad.

All other things being equal because of the high unemployment people at a given level will be doing lower skilled and lower status work in Ireland whereas abroad they may have a better chance of getting a job appropriate to their education, skills and experience and will be able to get a higher level of training, education and development than waiting for something to happen at home.

For any opportunity here in Ireland there will be many more able skilled and educated people fighting for each and every opportunity for less money, less security and every likelihood of being pushed aside by hungrier and more desperate rivals.

They will have no choice if they have strong family ties here (children and family etc....not to mention unsellable property) but the OP has none of those ties.

kuntboy

maninasia wrote: »

Ireland has one of the lowest tax regimes

But high stealth taxes.

Brussels Sprout

doolox wrote: »

If the OP is thinking about emigrating then chances are he is not happy in his current job and is probably in a rut.
Chances are very high that in Ireland for the next few years there will be very high underemployment and lots of idle time between assignments even for those in work.

Being a small, restricted and.......





..........by hungrier and more desperate rivals.

They will have no choice if they have strong family ties here (children and family etc....not to mention unsellable property) but the OP has none of those ties.

Your ideas intrigue me and i wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

BluePlanet

Don't forget that it's not only money that matters.
40k is fairly meaningless if you're not happy.

Not everybody aspires to making as much money as possible.
Nor should they.

jmayo

ILA wrote: »

Stay
You can get the dole if you become unemployed and still put yourself to good use by getting involved in community projects, clubs, politics, and maybe actually be part of the rebuilding. You could even re-enter education and reach the next level in time for when things start picking up.

Yeah that's a great future to look forward to, life on the dole and working on a community project.
:rolleyes:

Delusion ?
You do know that the dole is going to be savagedly cut as we are broke and the ECB/IMF are now going to be here probably within the month.

ILA wrote: »

Stay
I imagine your family and friends are here, you'll get homesick after a short while and most of the time that doesn't go away no matter how hard you try to forget about home.

OP don't worry on that count, there is a very good probability some more of your family and friends will be joining you.

mikemac

BluePlanet wrote: »

Don't forget that it's not only money that matters.
40k is fairly meaningless if you're not happy.

Not everybody aspires to making as much money as possible.
Nor should they.

+1
You have a great salary and are good at what you do
But it means nothing if you're not happy and ending up in tears or losing sleep over work. (I'm not saying you are)

Get out and travel
Just keep some emergency funds for yourself

mox54

forget the 40k and all that, I left for London in 86 and spent 12 years there, met many great people and had a great job too, continued my education there to get an MA and moved back to rear my family here so basically I say just go anyway and have a ball!, new experiences my friend can only make you a better person so GO and enjoy:)

keithclancy

If you have no ties and are single then give it a go I recon.

I've left Ireland almost 3 years ago now, don't see myself going back anytime soon. Was meant to only be a short term thing to try out living in another country.

You'll only get homesick if you run your life trying to facilitate others that are back home and you need to make yourself a priority.

NOGMaxpower

Go To OZ

better life, better quality of life, more opportunities, more stable government, better pensions, longer life span, cheaper mortgages, sunshine, hotter ladies/dudes, cheap taxes, you wont be burndend with paying for other peoples mistakes, no more doom gloom, no more RAIN, no more 2 week summers, no more Anglo Irish ramblings, no more traffic jams, more places to go on holidays, sun tan, cheaper cars, cheaper rents, cheaper food, cheaper drink and i think i can sum it up with A BETTER LIFE full stop.

Cons:
Insects, animals that can kill you and skin cancer.
Famil; you'll miss everyone but all the above makes that easier to cope with.

Im moving purely based on the above as well as being duped into this Celtic Tiger thats now crippled me for the rest of my days.

Oh btw, if you job is on the required skills list your salary will be on average 30% higher than what it is here after appllying the exchange rates of course.

ei.sdraob

NOGMaxpower wrote: »

Go To OZ

better life, better quality of life, more opportunities, more stable government, better pensions, longer life span, cheaper mortgages, sunshine, hotter ladies/dudes, cheap taxes, you wont be burndend with paying for other peoples mistakes, no more doom gloom, no more RAIN, no more 2 week summers, no more Anglo Irish ramblings, no more traffic jams, more places to go on holidays, sun tan, cheaper cars, cheaper rents, cheaper food, cheaper drink and i think i can sum it up with A BETTER LIFE full stop.

Cons:
Insects, animals that can kill you and skin cancer.
Famil; you'll miss everyone but all the above makes that easier to cope with.

Im moving purely based on the above as well as being duped into this Celtic Tiger thats now crippled me for the rest of my days.

Oh btw, if you job is on the required skills list your salary will be on average 30% higher than what it is here after appllying the exchange rates of course.

take those pink shades off

Austrialia is sort of in a middle of a property boom and economy is heavily dependant on mineral exports to China

so beware,,,

ravendude

ei.sdraob wrote: »

take those pink shades off

Austrialia is sort of in a middle of a property boom and economy is heavily dependant on mineral exports to China

so beware,,,

I agree, many commentators are predicting a very hard landing for Australia. They've been booming (really booming) for a long time now.
Lots of similar nonsense talk like you got here a few years back ("This time its different", "A new paradigm", etc.). House prices and Rent are as bad if not worse than what they were here.

Its not quite the utopia people think it is either, - large parts of the cities are souless IMO, - huge souless suburbs with little to commend them (not that you don't get that here either).

jmayo

ei.sdraob wrote: »

take those pink shades off

Austrialia is sort of in a middle of a property boom and economy is heavily dependant on mineral exports to China

so beware,,,

The state that would be affected the most by this would be Western Australia which has had a huge property boom, bubble perhaps, around Perth.
Western Australia's huge grain growing areas have been decimated over recent years by drought and the fall in agriculture was masked by the huge growth in mineral exports to China and Asia.

Then again they do have huge natural resources, didn't have their banks go apesh** leaving the taxpayers with billions of a mess to clear up and the weather is much better (providing you cover up in sun) so it is till far better place than here.

Just don't assume it is nirvana.

fat__tony

Look at moving to Canada.

I'm here in Toronto for ten days, meeting my prospective employer and seeing the sights of the city.

It's a fantastic place;

- Superb and inexpensive public transport
- Clean city
- Extremely friendly locals
- Loads of sights and activities
- Decent Irish community

The only negatives is that it's an expensive city but it's still cheaper than Dublin.

nadir

Yeah, but your salary should be higher than here so its probably ok.
I find daily commodities are a killer in Ireland, any of the Major cities I've been to have much cheaper food/groceries and don't forget healthcare which is a real killer here, it's probably excellent in Canada.

ardmacha

The only negatives is that it's an expensive city but it's still cheaper than Dublin.

Toronto is a nice place but it freezes your goolies off in the Winter and roasts you in the summer.

showmetheway

jmayo wrote: »

Go join him.
It's a very nice country where you do actaully realise there is a sun.

Get out of this God forsaken banana republic.

All you are going to get here is more taxes, less services and more sh**.

Forget the s*** about how the quality of life is better here, it is not really.
Believe it or not they have pubs, clubs and beer in Oz as well.

Even though in Oz there are snakes, spiders, fish, etc that can kill you in hours, IMHO you die a slower death in this country.

And yes I would be long gone out of here, but for my other half who wants to stay close to family.

You have no ties so go now.
Travel and see the world.

BTW what part of Oz is your brother in ?

To everyone thanks for the replies, to the poster above my Brother was in Brisbane for the past 4 years, he moved to melbourne recently

KELTICKNIGHTT

i say go,i was abroad for 11 years,right here,right now,i wonder why i came back,selling my house and should be gone next year not too come back,you have a brother there ,thats a big help. i didnt ,went on my own,was hard but was harder here ,so having done it once,wouldnt have a prob doing it again,see abit of the world and make a life,,be gloom and all here fro a long time ,and i for one,had enough too

Mister men

40k :eek: My wife and i earn less than that between us and we support two kids. Why would you want to leave a job with that sort of earnings?