Genres

jtsuited

Right let's have at it.....

I've seen this point pop up in many many threads over the last few months so I reckon we start a big ole debate here to avoid other threads being hijacked.

I really don't see the big hoo-ha about there being so many new genre names popping up all the time. I mean it's always been going on in music, and well, it's never going to stop. Adjectives are useful.

I mean if you understand the musical structure of it, most electronic music types can be defined by simple musical concepts and are characterised by fairly obvious features.....for instance

Deep House - bpm's anywhere between 110-125 (ish), min-7th-add-9th chords all over the place. Warm dusty samples. Same sort of aural aesthetic of cool jazz (i mean that in the literal sense of cool jazz, i'm not saying it's cool), disco percussion loops and lots of dissonance.
Even if you compare european deep house (the likes of Drumpoet Community's output, or Dessous or whoever) with the more purist stuff (KDJ, old Kerri Chandler, etc) or even the more old sounding european stuff like MCDE, you're gonna find a lot of these elements. Some of it might be sh1te, some of it might be brilliant, but it's all related musically. Simples.

Dubstep - bpm's of 130 (ish) and up, but with the accents on the half-time so it seems all slow. Wobble dubstep has wobbles. A lot of dubstep that doesn't have wobbles or much of an 'Urban' influence will be called post-dubstep. Scuba, 2562, Mount Kimbie might be a million miles away from Skream and Benga (I have no idea about all that wobbly dubstep so correct me if I'm wrong) but structurally they're in the same ballpark. Now aesthetically and sonically they are worlds apart so maybe that's why people like to differentiate them by adding the 'post' bit. Makes sense imo though if you're record shopping. Again, simple enough.

Uk Garage/UK Funky/2-Step
Tend to be 120 bpm and upwards with lots of swing and syncopation.

Again like dubstep these genres are defined by their structure, and of course (like dubstep), stuff being done with this structure but with an entirely different aesthetic approach gets labelled something different like Future Garage, Dark Garage, etc.
I don't think it helps anyone buying records to have Oxide and Neutrino/Artful Dodger/Craig David in the same section as Floating Points or Burial so all sorts of ridiculous add-on words get attached.
Again might seem a bit ridiculous, but it makes sense at the end of the day.

At the end of the day, the lines between genres get blurred and disintegrated as soon as they are named, so you have all sorts of hybrids, and eventually that hybrid becomes it's own genre (dubstep for instance), and then everyone gets on the internet giving out about how there are too many genres, and stupid fashion blogger dj's get hung up on what new fangled genres are 'scene' (lol), and everyone gets in a huff.

One thing that really pisses me off though is the electro/electrohouse thing. It's only an extra 5 letters at the end of electro and it's a totally different ballpark. If an extra 5 letters (or if you're speaking, one extra syllable) is too much effort to write (or speak), then your life is infinitely more busy than is healthy or else you're just plain lazy. However, more often than not, the people that say electro when they mean electrohouse, are fairly clueless about the whole thing anywho and as such should just be ignored.

Music is music.

My last record buying binge consisted of deep house, UK Garage, techno, dubstep (or post-dubstep if you wanna be pernickety), disco, soul, detroit house, acid techno, ambient, pop (stevie wonder is pop right?), funk, blah blah blah.

Or I could just say my last record buying binge was enjoyable. Either way, the music is the same.

ArmCandyBaby

Of couse genre names are necessary, we need a language to differentiate tunes but it does give some people a license to spout total guff. Pity it was only touched on in that d*ckhead video. Electropop meets Southern Hip-hop...

seannash

some very good points JT.

i have no problem with new genre names.for example i definitely feel dubstep was a new genre of dance music.it was different.it deserved its own name

but the other ones are just basically rebranding to either distance themselves from a once commerical sound(the whole garage thing)or just to be a new buzz worthy style.

i think you made a good point with your "what records i bought" bit.
genres are necessary but its getting to a point where people who are only looking in a certain category are gonna miss tracks because its been subdivided into another genre.

im sure a breakbeat djs tastes span from deep breakbeat to peaktime stuff.
lets just put it in the breakbeat category and not take those slower breakbeat tracks and stick them in a new section called post dubstep.

i like house music.for me this spans every type of house,deep,jackin,tech,vocal etc.
i can understand why there is a distinction but if this trend continues it wont be long before tech house is sub divided or something similar.

there is very little new in dance music yet people seem obsessed with putting everything that is slightly original into a category all on its own.
soon enough this original song is a basis for all these similar sounding tracks.

no amount of ranting will stop it but i feel its becoming something for the people in the dickheads video to talk about

brianc27

jtsuited wrote: »

One thing that really pisses me off though is the electro/electrohouse thing. It's only an extra 5 letters at the end of electro and it's a totally different ballpark. If an extra 5 letters (or if you're speaking, one extra syllable) is too much effort to write (or speak), then your life is infinitely more busy than is healthy or else you're just plain lazy. However, more often than not, the people that say electro when they mean electrohouse, are fairly clueless about the whole thing anywho and as such should just be ignored.

aye, pisses me off no end too and i'm not even that big a fan of proper electro, anyone that does this i pretty much disregard their opinion on anything music related (and probably everything else) coz to me it just proves they are completely clueless about electronic music.

jtsuited

yeah i'm not a fan of real electro either (like a bit of the dutch stuff like alden tyrell, I-F, etc.).
It's like calling dubstep just dub. It's just wrong. It means an entirely different thing. Worst thing is when people call you some sort of snob or genre-nazi for pointing it out.

dubsbhoy

One mans deep house is another another mans minimal one mans progressive is another's trance etc etc

I was on Juno today looking to buy some funky house..............One in 5 tracks were what i'd class as been funky house the rest were electro and just general crap.

There is the problem for me, there is a lot of crossover and its all down to what you perceive the style to be

jtsuited

dubsbhoy wrote: »

One mans deep house is another another mans minimal one mans progressive is another's trance etc etc

I was on Juno today looking to buy some funky house..............One in 5 tracks were what i'd class as been funky house the rest were electro and just general crap.

There is the problem for me, there is a lot of crossover and its all down to what you perceive the style to be

Actually you raise a good point there regarding the retail side of things. I think what you're describing there is what happens when you don't shop in a store that is bound by physical space.

If you take beatport or juno or any of those online stores, they can stock such massively high volumes of tunes that dividing by a handful of genre names is gonna result in an inaccurate irritating mess of unrelated sh1te in every category.

If you look at hardwax, it's manageable catalogue suffers from no such problems.

Zascar

It annoys me how bent out of shape people get about arguing over what genre something is. It doesn't matter (unless you are just miles off the mark and being a tosser lol). So much of the time its anyone's guess and a tunes can easily be put in several categories. Compared to many others I'd be kinda narrow minded when it comes to my tunes - is usually house, tech house, minimal & techno and now compared to years ago the lines are blurring. These days I really have lost interest - just not feeling the love much - so listening to random stuff - even a lot of 'band music' lol which I know nothing about whatsoever but its nice to listen to. Finding random soundcloud mixtapes which are fun.

I always find it incredible how some people can actually keep up to date with stuff across the entire spectrum of electronic music. Huge appreciate to those that can, I simply would not have the time, and if I did I'm not sure I'd have the inclination. One thing that actually annoys me is people who say they like "All Music" without any preferences - I don't really think that's entirely possible - you have to have some you love more than others.

Sometimes the best DJ's are the ones are completely versatile and diverse - takes more skill to play a set that crosses many genre's than it does to play a tech house set.

jtsuited

Zascar wrote: »

One thing that actually annoys me is people who say they like "All Music" without any preferences - I don't really think that's entirely possible -
.

really???? I find the opposite to be true. I can't understand how people ONLY listen to electronic music, or 'band music' (ffs Colly!!!!:p), or jazz or classical or soul or whatever.

I could never go a day without listening to at least one folk song, one jazz record, one pop song, etc.

I need them all otherwise my brain doesn't work or something.

seannash

Zascar wrote: »

These days I really have lost interest - just not feeling the love much

ive been like that for about 2 years now.i kinda stay up to date and its usually from sites like this.

i know this isnt a viable solution but a switch to vinyl would most definitely get your interest back.
not because of the music but the sheer act of leaving the house to go to a shop and discover music.

like i said not a viable option for most but as soon as i get myself set up im going back to technics,even just to play my old vinyl that i have.

Zascar

jtsuited wrote: »

really???? I find the opposite to be true. I can't understand how people ONLY listen to electronic music, or 'band music' (ffs Colly!!!!:p), or jazz or classical or soul or whatever.

I could never go a day without listening to at least one folk song, one jazz record, one pop song, etc.

I need them all otherwise my brain doesn't work or something.

Yes but I'm sure you have preferences. You know when you meet someone and ask what sort of music they are into, and they literally have no preference. Sounds like they are just not that into music at all to me.

I'd like to be able to 'live music' and have the time to take it all in but I don't. I know its a bad thing that I'm kinda narrow minded, but I really do love house/techno way way more than any of the other types I like.

When I heard JTK Bukem down at Life I absolutely adored his music despite never having much of an interest in DnB before, and said to myself I was going to start downlaoding and playing some of that type of stuff - but I haven't... as I said I'm loosing the love, but anyways, we're going off topic.

seannash

Zascar wrote: »

Yes but I'm sure you have preferences. You know when you meet someone and ask, what sort of music they are into and they literally have no preference. Sounds like they are just not that into music at all to me.

I'd like to be able to 'live music' and have the time to take it all in but I don't. I know its a bad thing that I'm kinda narrow minded, but I really do love house/techno way way more than any of the other types I like.

on your own admission(i think youve said this before) but your still somewhat new to it(well new enough)

i was the exact same for years,nothing but house music on my ipod but over the years some more stuff found its way in.but when you first start out it is all emcompassing

Zascar

Well, the main thing is that I would 'listen' to lots of different styles of music - like the cd's I have in my car are quite wide ranging, but the music I actually DJ with, is fairly genre specific. And because a lot of the time I enjoy music even more when I'm actually mixing it - its what I focus my efforts on when I'm hunting etc. What I have in my collection apart form that could have some from anywhere.

Jev/N

Zascar wrote: »

When I heard JTK Bukem down at Life I absolutely adored his music despite never having much of an interest in DnB before, and said to myself I was going to start downlaoding and playing some of that type of stuff - but I haven't... as I said I'm loosing the love, but anyways, we're going off topic.

LTJ Bukem

Decided to listen to some as you mentioned him!

Zascar

hahah sorry that was a pure typo

Actually, I think I will too! Any recommendations of albums or mixes?

CaSCaDe711

In my opinion, anyone who says "Ah I like listening to a bit of everything", they are the very people who'll happily sit in their workplace, tapping their foot while listening to 104 etc, and not get bored with it all, even after a few days / weeks.

Me..? Well, I'd mainly listen to, em, "electronica" (progressive house, trance, techno, ambient, IDM, minimal, D&B) , artists such as Underworld, FSOL, Bukem,, Peshay, Seba & Lotek, Leftfield, Union Jack, Jarre, and some artists off the Warp label, plus a few of the more mainstream, Kasabian, Coldplay, Verve, U2, David Gray etc.

@ Zascar, Bukem's Live @ Rebirth mix, Mixmag Vol 3 mix, and his Essential mixes are all quality. His Logical Progression mixes are really good too.

Android 666

Zascar wrote: »

hahah sorry that was a pure typo

Actually, I think I will too! Any recommendations of albums or mixes?

Get the first Logical Progression album - everything is brilliant on that. If you like the Good Looking and Looking Good records stuff then you are sure to love the Moving Shadow stuff like EZ Rollers and Flytronix. Also if you're checking out Metalheadz Platinum Breaks and any Photek stuff from around that era all great stuff.

Jev/N

Zascar wrote: »

Actually, I think I will too! Any recommendations of albums or mixes?

TBH I haven't a clue, I have a rake of my brother's old jungle and D'n'B here so I just rifle through that. Ah, the joy of vinyl, knowing just what is sounds like from the design on the cover!

electrogrimey

Wow this thread has derailed.

About genres, personally I'd prefer if genres were more specific. House isn't house. Defining all house music as just house is like definitely all art music as classical music. It doesn't describe the music properly.

Also, about the whole 'electro' thing, people who say 'electro', don't mean electro-house. Electro-house is that stuff you only find on Youtube, pretty much like progressive house. Technically they mean indie-dance, but that hasn't been accepted as the mainsteam name, electro has.

To be honest, I don't even know what the name of the type of house I like is.

seannash

electrogrimey wrote: »

Wow this thread has derailed.

About genres, personally I'd prefer if genres were more specific. House isn't house. Defining all house music as just house is like definitely all art music as classical music. It doesn't describe the music properly.

Also, about the whole 'electro' thing, people who say 'electro', don't mean electro-house. Electro-house is that stuff you only find on Youtube, pretty much like progressive house. Technically they mean indie-dance, but that hasn't been accepted as the mainsteam name, electro has.

To be honest, I don't even know what the name of the type of house I like is.

no i think jeff was saying that if you play house you basically play all types of house from warm up stuff to the banging stuff and everything in between.

like i said i feel a new genre name for dubstep was justified but apart from that there is nothing really new about music that is being called post dub or future garage.

these are not new styles of music,they have been around before and have fallen under a different name
its just people who are new to it trying to make it there own and give it some pizazz(probably spelt wrong)

i seem to recall beatport trying to introduce a new genre called swing house becuase of the popularity of we no speak americano.
they even showed us examples of this style of music from years before that track.thankfully it didnt catch on