Buying a TV with DTT and Freesat built-in

shamwari

As the title of the posts says, I'm thinking of buying a new TV with a suitable DTT tuner and freesat receiver already built-in. Sizewise, I am looking at something around 28"-32". Can someone give me some guidance on what to buy or avoid? I did see a special advertised for an LG in Richer Sounds Belfast, but obviously our DTT standard is supposed to be different to that up North and in the UK.

My TV aerial is pointing @ Three Rock and I live just outside Rush in Co Dublin. The analogue reception is a little grainy, but good enough for perfect teletext and Nicam. I'm not using an amplifier of any sort either. Would I need to upgrade or alter the aerial in any way for DTT?

STB

LG LF7700 range. Difficult to get but they can be got (reason being they have stopped making them for UK market as they now use something else for HD Freeview - that doesnt effect us though - perfect for Ireland if you can get one). Does both and plays Divx via USB afaik. Full HD. Analogue tuners as well. When you see RTE on DTT you will forget about analogue grainy reception!

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=67557711&postcount=21

AVOID PANASONIC FREESAT COMBO TVs! (I cant emphasise that enough). The DVB-T tuners will be useless in the coming months if people that have already bought them dont back up their channel lists to an SD card.

Stinicker

STB wrote: »

AVOID PANASONIC FREESAT COMBO TVs! (I cant emphasise that enough). The DVB-T tuners will be useless in the coming months if people that have already bought them dont back up their channel lists to an SD card.

Why so?

homer911

I have the 32LF7700 - am pretty happy with it apart from the fact that the price has come down since I bought it, even recently

These machines dont support iPlayer and LG are giving out a free STB instead - even it seems for people in ROI

Check out joinfreesat.co.uk for details of TVs and the free extra box

reaper180

dont know much about these tvs but have a look,, some others mite have an idea
http://www.pixmania.ie/ie/uk/5015253/art/toshiba/32av733f-lcd-television-b.html

STB

Stinicker wrote: »

Why so?

This
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055588027&page=3

This
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055673638

This
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055899273

I could go on!

Bottom line - full service IDs not defined in firmware - that means if (as is strongly rumoured) RTE switch back from 0x1 Digital TV service to Advanced Codec 0x16 descriptor and you retune or press yes to found new TV services on either the LZD81/PZ81 G10/15s your TV will have found nothing as it thinks its an MPEG2 TV because 0x16 is not defined in software! (Although it has the necessary hardware chip the software has deliberately been deined to UK broadcasting spec in sotware)

And when that happens you are reliant on having a backup from an SD card (a messy procedure).

I had posted this but it probably went over peoples heads http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056021721

This is not the case with the LGs who are fully compliant with ETSI and not built according to UK DBook!

homer911 wrote: »

I have the 32LF7700 - am pretty happy with it apart from the fact that the price has come down since I bought it, even recently

These machines dont support iPlayer and LG are giving out a free STB instead - even it seems for people in ROI

Check out joinfreesat.co.uk for details of TVs and the free extra box

You do know that Iplayer is geoblocked! No reason not to get a free box to record or for another room etc though! Best of luck with that.

The Cush

shamwari wrote: »

As the title of the posts says, I'm thinking of buying a new TV with a suitable DTT tuner and freesat receiver already built-in. Sizewise, I am looking at something around 28"-32".

The Sony W5810 range is also an option, sizes start from 32". Do a search here on the boards for "W5810" or "5810" to check out the reviews. Discussed here recently.

Models are sometimes stocked locally by Peats, Power City, independent retailers or check out the Sony Centres etc.

Also available online e.g. http://www.amazon.co.uk/Sony-KDL32W5810U-Widescreen-Installation-Recommend/dp/B002Q4UF9Y/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1284147260&sr=8-5 .

shamwari

Thanks everyone for your advice! I'll see if I can source someone selling the LG set so! Bye bye grainy analogue!!!

Stinicker

OK STB, I thought there was some new thing after cropping up; I was aware of those issues already and both my Panasonics are receiving DTT fine at the moment and I have made SD card backups just incase. Eventually the Manufacturers may release a software patch to cover these issues but at the moment I am happy enough.

We all bought TV's in the last few years and I looked for something that I figured would work with DTT, at the end of the day no-one has an official "Saorview Ready iDTV" and I wonder if they will even come to the market.

If and when RTÉ ever does launch this thing I and alot more people will probably have some sort of Saorview+ PVR so we can record the thing, so it won't be a big deal. I'd still rather have my Panasonics any day over an LG, Samsung or Sony due to picture quality plus the Freesat is a far superior service to RTE in Crappovision SD at the moment.

STB

Stinicker,

Panasonic LZD81/PZ81 G10/15 ranges

It is an old problem that is very likely to raise its ugly head again for Panasonic owners of these models when RTE employs the full rigid services types that are in its published specs around soft launch. It hasnt been an issue up til now as RTENL switched back to 0x1 service type some time back, hence no problems in that intervening period. And its not RTENLs fault that short cuts where taken by pani!

However the reality is that the pubished standard is likely to be broadcast with flag changes(for reasons simple as so people with MPEG2 legacy IDTVs wont be ringing RTE continuosly to say I have sound but no picture - What will happen is that the TV realises its limitations and says Okay I'm mpeg2 I wont even display the stations in a scan result).

Unfortunately Panasonic Freesat Combo TV owners will become casualties because of the incomptability of UK DBook standard specially gunthered firmware design to criple dvb-t outside of its MPEG2 use for SD in the UK although the MPEG4 L4 processor is actually present for HD Freesat.

Simple firmware fixes not being offered

Panasonic have been contacted several times here by Irish owners looking for a simple fimware fix. The answers has been consistently unhelpful - UK product not suitable for Ireland - tough luck! No matter how blue in the face you get saying but the MPEG4 processor is there please enable it with a few lines of code for DVB-T.

Infact HOW Panasonic came to get away with ignoring ETSI standards on not one range of freesat products but 2 sets within the space of one year is beyond me.

By the way - It will also mean that whilst you have a saved channel list now - you will never have the full DTT bouquet as it changes as you would have to have tuned it in previously.

For those reasons I cannot recommend them to anyone thinking of buying a Freesat Combo TV.

Other MPEG4 TVs

Most MPEG4 IDTVs sold over the last 3 years will be fine (sans MHEG5 - not the end of the world) as they are compliant with ETSI and have country profiles to ensure compliance with ETSI. They were NOT specifically crippled to only show MPEG2 broadcasts.

Whatever about the snobbery that goes on with AV product branding for me the key is service backup. LG for sure have got their act together and are very customer focussed releasing patches galore and enabling stuff on older tvs (usb ETC). Strangely they didnt take the narrow view in using Dbook for their Freesat Combo products that Panasonic did.

Anyone that has a combo box can record RTE for the last 2 years its on. Again combo boxes will not be disabled by these changes as they follow ETSI - EN 300 744 .

Anyhow thats my understanding of it. I'm probably nearing the word count limit, thank God, some might say.

magher

homer911 wrote: »

I have the 32LF7700 - am pretty happy with it apart from the fact that the price has come down since I bought it, even recently

These machines dont support iPlayer and LG are giving out a free STB instead - even it seems for people in ROI

Check out joinfreesat.co.uk for details of TVs and the free extra box

Didn't hear about that, a free freesat STB, anyone received theirs yet.

I would of thought they wouldn't send them to ROI considering we can't receive iplayer anyway.

Stinicker

STB wrote: »

Stinicker,

Panasonic LZD81/PZ81 G10/15 ranges
Anyhow thats my understanding of it. I'm probably nearing the word count limit, thank God, some might say...

I know, thanks for the informative post, I think RTE should really have a policy of if its not Saorview branded then its not their problem really. I took a new firmware upgrade into my Panny tonight and it made no changes.

I then done a factory reset and retuned and saved to SD! I also have a G10L Irish model I wonder how if at all this would be effected?

STB

Stinicker wrote: »

I also have a G10L Irish model I wonder how if at all this would be effected?

It will be fine. Its only the freesat pani range that deliberately has MPEG2 service IDs defined for the dvb-t part even though it can do MPEG4.

Any other dvb-t MPEG4 TV would be ETSI rather than Dbook which is UK specific. Thats why you see country region at the start - it turns on/off stuff within the TV.

watty

Stinicker wrote: »

I think RTE should really have a policy of if its not Saorview branded then its not their problem really.

That is 100% their policy.

Just as in every other country, except maybe Slovakia. Pesky people buying gear for Czech, Hungarian, Austrian and maybe Polish TV who knows.

championc

STB wrote: »

It will be fine. Its only the freesat pani range that deliberately has MPEG2 service IDs defined for the dvb-t part even though it can do MPEG4.

Any other dvb-t MPEG4 TV would be ETSI rather than Dbook which is UK specific. Thats why you see country region at the start - it turns on/off stuff within the TV.

Hi STB,

I can't fully keep up with you techies completely. With what you're saying, how does the UK Panasonic G20B model fit into things. It's a DVB-T2 set and I know it's 100% backward compatible for DVB-T but how does this mean it should be completely 100% OK ?

I'm very interested in this set to get both Freeview HD and Freesat HD on the same set without additional boxes (I know, I wouldn't be able to record stuff just like this). If it's too soon to be 100% sure, how long do you think it would be before being 100% sure ?


C

STB

championc wrote: »

Hi STB,

I can't fully keep up with you techies completely. With what you're saying, how does the UK Panasonic G20B model fit into things. It's a DVB-T2 set and I know it's 100% backward compatible for DVB-T but how does this mean it should be completely 100% OK ?

I'm very interested in this set to get both Freeview HD and Freesat HD on the same set without additional boxes (I know, I wouldn't be able to record stuff just like this). If it's too soon to be 100% sure, how long do you think it would be before being 100% sure ?


C

With the G20B I dont know (nobody does yet and wont do until RTE turn on the specific service types - at the moment they broadcast with the basic 0x01 flag which is digital tv service tag). This is normally used for MPEG2 broadcasts. RTE are using this it at the moment despite broadcasting in MPEG4 SD and should not technically be flaging it this way.

When specific service type are changed by RTE to what they are actually broadcasting ie 0x16 for SD and 0x19 for HD some TVs go bananas (MPEG2 TVs just ignore it if it is flagged this way and you get no search results because it realises its limitations - cant display video).

It all depends IF panasonic have a full list defined for DVB-T in their DVB-T2 TVs for ALL service types - they havent up until now and have been quite selective.

Previous models
Whilst the other Panasonic freesat combo tvs have the wherewithall to decode mpeg4 broadcasts the software that was written for the former models did not have a full list of service types defined in the software (at the bottom I have listed the full service type list that can be used in a broadcast by a broadcaster - the ones that RTE are likely to use are in bold).

We are likely to use 0x16 and 0x19. The UK are likely to use 0x1 for SD and 0x19 for HD. So if Panasonic continue to define only certain service types in the firmware according to Dbook specs rather than ETSI DVB standard then you could have a situation that the 0x16 isnt defined because the UK dont use it. Panasonic have been that narrow in their view with the DVB-T Freesat combos to date.

This only applies to the freesat combo ranges as other mpeg4 DVB-T Tvs have country profiles to turn on turn off limitations per country. The likelyhood is that what I am saying here will also KILL the Picnic boxes and other UK Dbook boxes as their firmware limits them in what they receive.

Bottom line: WAIT until late October/November before buying and check here to see if anyone has bought one and there are problems!

Table 81: Service type coding
service_type Description
0x00 reserved for future use
0x01 digital television service (see note 1)
0x02 digital radio sound service (see note 2)
0x03 Teletext service
0x04 NVOD reference service (see note 1)
0x05 NVOD time-shifted service (see note 1)
0x06 mosaic service
0x07 FM radio service
0x08 DVB SRM service [49]
0x09 reserved for future use
0x0A advanced codec digital radio sound service
0x0B advanced codec mosaic service
0x0C data broadcast service
0x0D reserved for Common Interface Usage (EN 50221 [37])
0x0E RCS Map (see EN 301 790 [7])
0x0F RCS FLS (see EN 301 790 [7])
0x10 DVB MHP service
0x11 MPEG-2 HD digital television service
0x12 to 0x15 reserved for future use
0x16 advanced codec SD digital television service
0x17 advanced codec SD NVOD time-shifted service
0x18 advanced codec SD NVOD reference service
0x19 advanced codec HD digital television service
0x1A advanced codec HD NVOD time-shifted service
0x1B advanced codec HD NVOD reference service
0x1C to 0x7F reserved for future use
0x80 to 0xFE user defined
0xFF reserved for future use
NOTE 1: MPEG-2 SD material should use this type.
NOTE 2: MPEG-1 Layer 2 audio material should use this type.

championc

Many thanks for that STB

I would have been a tiny bit upset if my circa €800+ purchase had backfired - not to mention the explaining i'd have had to do to the Financial Controller !!!


C

watty

STB wrote: »

When specific service type are changed by RTE to what they are actually broadcasting ie 0x16 for SD and 0x19 for HD some TVs go bananas (MPEG2 TVs just ignore it if it is flagged this way and you get no search results because it realises its limitations - cant display video).

Surely RTE NL should be doing this when service starts as they are using the Dynamic Codec part of Nordig so that initially RTE2 can swap between SD and HD on a program by program basis while there is only one mux. They need to at leasat lower bitrate of RTE news Now (maybe slide show) and switch off RTE 1+1 evening feed to show HD sport in evening on RTE2, or Children's channel in Daytime.

STB

watty wrote: »

Surely RTE NL should be doing this when service starts as they are using the Dynamic Codec part of Nordig so that initially RTE2 can swap between SD and HD on a program by program basis while there is only one mux. They need to at leasat lower bitrate of RTE news Now (maybe slide show) and switch off RTE 1+1 evening feed to show HD sport in evening on RTE2, or Children's channel in Daytime.

Yes they should and probably will. Even for the SD it shouldnt be 0x01 which its set to now which is reserved for MPEG2. RTENL may have taken a view on this when the initial threads started appearing about no stations in scans on Panasonic Freesat HD LCDs. It certainly allowed people tune them back in when they reverted from 0x16 to 0x01. But this cant last. Thats why I have been warning people that have bought one of the previous panasonic freesat ranges to back up their channel lists now to an SD card. Broadcsting these decsriptors is very likely even for the MPEG4 SD stations (also not defined on Pani fressats) regardless of when the HD stations come on.


Soft launch is not too far away and things would likely start changing over the next few weeks. People with MPEG4 dvb-t only TVs will not even notice it. Its only a descriptor. For the HD/SD hybrid station they are liklely to use broadcasting 0x019. The test channel appears as HD on my Clarketech, I havent checked the transport stream to see if it is 0x019, but I am guessing it probably is.

Sponge Bob

STB wrote: »

Thats why I have been warning people that have bought one of the previous panasonic freesat ranges to back up their channel lists now to an SD card.

Soft launch is not too far away and things would likely start changing over the next few weeks. People with MPEG4 TVs will not even notice it. Its only a descriptor. For the HD/SD hybrid station they are likely to use broadcasting 0x019. The text channel appears as HD on my Clarketech, I havent checked the transport stream to see if it is 0x019, but I am guessing it probably is.

Can these descriptors not be rewritten on an SD card ( using notepad on a PC for example) to the ID one would wish and exported back to the tellyvator afterwards ??

STB

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Can these descriptors not be rewritten on an SD card ( using notepad on a PC for example) to the ID one would wish and exported back to the tellyvator afterwards ??

No they must be defined in the firmware of the TV. Its sotware recognition of the scan results. Every compliant TV normally has the full list. The Pani's dont and behave like they cant decode it although they can. Panasonic could just offer a firmware upgrade. But they havent offered it and dont want to know (Freesat products not meant to be used outside UK - and firmware is written for limited purposes).

The SD card CAN be used to back up your channel lists which can be reloaded at any juncture and fools the TV into displaying the channels anyhow. However, this will not display new channels though should they come on stream, outside the ones saved now.
HOW TO DO THIS. http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=61720425&postcount=35

Its only a limited number of TVs, its just a pity though as they can do it all.

Sam Russell

STB wrote: »

This only applies to the freesat combo ranges as other mpeg4 DVB-T Tvs have country profiles to turn on turn off limitations per country. The likelyhood is that what I am saying here will also KILL the Picnic boxes and other UK Dbook boxes as their firmware limits them in what they receive.

I have a Picnic box which is good for what it does, but I would like Sagem to do a firmware update if only to fix a few bugs, and make the interface a bit easier. It would be great if they allowed a country choice. It at least will get the DA/b stations, I hope.

Will the box continue to work as a DAB-like radio receiver, or will this be gone as well?

STB

Sam Russell wrote: »

I have a Picnic box which is good for what it does, but I would like Sagem to do a firmware update if only to fix a few bugs, and make the interface a bit easier. It would be great if they allowed a country choice. It at least will get the DA/b stations, I hope.

Will the box continue to work as a DAB-like radio receiver, or will this be gone as well?

It only does SD (MP@L3). It wont receive RTE2 when that goes HD.

As for the rest I dont know what software is in them so I dont know how it will respond to country and service type descriptors.

Do you have a spec sheet for it. As regards audio. Presuming the stations still tune if changes are made, then it may keep showing all SD stations and radio. If changes are made on the radio end it would be to the audio codec. The type of audio codecs that RTE can use is in the published spec. The picnic box would have to have some of that capability outside of MPEG. Its a wait and see scenario. I'd back up the channel list if you can do that.

I wouldnt think Sagem will be offering any firmware upgrades, the box was built for Sky on the back of their now aborted plans for dvb-t and is built on the sat chassis of the Sat equivelant in France. The box technically was never put into operation and dont really exist!

Sam Russell

STB wrote: »

It only does SD (MP@L3). It wont receive RTE2 when that goes HD.

As for the rest I dont know what software is in them so I dont know how it will respond to country and service type descriptors.

Do you have a spec sheet for it. As regards audio. Presuming the stations still tune if changes are made, then it may keep showing all SD stations and radio. If changes are made on the radio end it would be to the audio codec. The type of audio codecs that RTE can use is in the published spec. The picnic box would have to have some of that capability outside of MPEG. Its a wait and see scenario. I'd back up the channel list if you can do that.

I wouldnt think Sagem will be offering any firmware upgrades, the box was built for Sky on the back of their now aborted plans for dvb-t and is built on the sat chassis of the Sat equivelant in France. The box technically was never put into operation and dont really exist!

It receives all the RTE test broadcasts, but it does not show video on the HD one. I do not know if it does AAC or other stuff. It does MHEG5 because it shows Aertel in digital. The 'Green button' EPG is not active yet, but I expect that will work. It also does dual audio. Not sure about audio description, but I think it does because it mentions it, but I do not think RTENL have put anything out with it. It has only UK country code, no others.

Sagem offer an HD version of this box in Sweden, iirc, so maybe that software might work on this box. The main gripes I have is with the clunky way the remote works, and the UK country code.

I doubt that anything will ever happen with this box, but I can live in hope.

watty

I think the picnic is doomed. Sorry.

Sam Russell

watty wrote: »

I think the picnic is doomed. Sorry.

So do I, but I am forever hopeful. It's not even a nice box.

ppw

help for a novice!
1. i recently purchased panasonic 42d25L (irish version). I have now read of the concerns over panasonic sat/dtt combination tvs. I am not very knowledgeable on these matters. Is there anything i should do with regards saving channels to sd card etc.

I have one satellite lead in room direct to tv. This receives fta.
The irish digital channels received too.
Analogue channels received too.

2. I have no recorder and am interested in getting something that will record programmes from the 42d25L.
i would like to record tv and watch another channel, is it possible with one lead or is it easy to adapt. I would also like to play dvd discs occasionally.

STB

ppw wrote: »

help for a novice!
1. i recently purchased panasonic 42d25L (irish version). I have now read of the concerns over panasonic sat/dtt combination tvs. I am not very knowledgeable on these matters. Is there anything i should do with regards saving channels to sd card etc.

......
2. I have no recorder and am interested in getting something that will record programmes from the 42d25L.
i would like to record tv and watch another channel, is it possible with one lead or is it easy to adapt. I would also like to play dvd discs occasionally.

Your Pananonic is one of the new european models not the B or British model that has being causing problems.

You do no not receive the Freesat menu on that model - its just a now/next data on the sat dvbs2 tuner ?. You dont have to backup anything as it has to be compliant for European countries.

You could buy a Edision Argus to record DTT and satellite they are €160 rom Saor TV (you connect an external hard drive to it).

Your satellite dish will have to have a dual/quad lnb in order to take another feed for that box. The DTT part is fine, you just connect your aerial to that and loop off the DTT out to your Tv with a small coax cable.

The Cush

Sony freesat TV in the Power City advert in today's Sunday newspapers.

winston_1

The Cush wrote: »

Sony freesat TV in the Power City advert in today's Sunday newspapers.

Don't agree with that 1 year parts and labour guarantee. EU legislation gives you 2 years.

The Cush

winston_1 wrote: »

Don't agree with that 1 year parts and labour guarantee. EU legislation gives you 2 years.

Manufacturers Warranty = at manufactuers discretion
Statutory Rights = 2 years (statute of limitations is 6 years)

Directive 1999/44/EC of the European Parliament and of the Council of 25 May 1999 on certain aspects of the sale of consumer goods and associated guarantees
S. I. No. 11 of 2003 European Communities (Certain Aspects of the Sale of Consumer Goods and Associated Guarantees) Regulations 2003

Warranties and Guarantees
Tuesday, 30 March 2010

Tina Leonard, Consumer Expert

When you buy something you have statutory rights that protect you when something goes wrong. But when you buy some items, usually electrical items, cars, furniture or luggage, you often get a manufacturer's warranty as well.

Even if you never had a warranty you still have your statutory rights. There is much confusion about this and this is apparent in the many queries we have received where a faulty item was out of warranty and the shop has told the customer that they cannot help them. So you need to know what the warranty is useful for and when you should make sure your consumer rights are being met.

Typical Practice:-

In practice when consumers contact the store about a faulty electrical item they have bought there, the majority of stores direct them to the manufacturer and their warranty. This is fine if your warranty has not expired, and if the cover it provides is good enough to solve your problem. If your warranty has expired then they will usually charge for a repair or say they cannot provide a remedy.

However, the crucial thing to realise is that your warranty is IN ADDITION to your statutory rights and not instead of them. Because many stores don't offer you your rights doesn't mean you don't have any. Plus your statutory rights are free!

Warranties:-

A warranty is a guarantee from the manufacturer of the product you buy (most commonly electrical and cars), that they will provide some remedies for defects or breakdown that occurs within a particular time frame after purchase. This is offered because the manufacturer wants to stand over the quality of their product, and knowing that defects can occur (mostly in the year after purchase), want to ensure their customer gets a good after sales service from them, in order to promote loyalty and trust in their products.

Things to check for:-

. How long it lasts
. Does it cover call out charges as well as repairs?
. Does it place a limit on the number or repairs or start charging after a number of repairs?
. Does it cover replacement?
. Does it cover accidental damage?
. If you buy in another jurisdiction is cover limited to that country?
. If you have to register to activate the guarantee

Sometimes you will never need to use it as you have your statutory rights. However, having a written statement from the manufacturer saying they will repair or replace an item within a set time after purchase is always handy to have. This is especially true if:

. The shop where you bought the item has closed down.
. You were given the item as a gift and so don't have the receipt or contract with the shop where it was bought.
. The warranty may cover accidental damage which your statutory rights do not.


Statutory Rights:-

Firstly, when you buy a product it has to be:

. Of merchantable quality
. Fit for its purpose
. As described

If something goes wrong with the product, the shop is deemed to be in breach of its contract with you and they have to provide a remedy. This could be a repair, replacement or refund or even partial refund depending on the time frame, and should not cost you anything. These rights should be met by the shop where you purchased the item, which means that you shouldn't have to go back to the manufacturer.

If for example, the DVD player stops working, the firdge's thermostat doesn't work properly or camera doesn't do all your told it would, then the shop is legally responsible to rectify the problem for you.

Across the European Union the minimum timeframe of protection afforded by your statutory rights is 2 years. In Ireland as the statute of limitations is 6 years it means you have the right to take a complaint against the retailer to the small claims court for example, within 6 years of purchase. Your consumer rights do diminish with time so that must be taken into account. In addition you have to take into account the expected life span of the product in question. Also, you do not have these rights if you damage or break something yourself.

If something goes wrong with your purchase your first port of call is always the shop where you bought it. They are legally responsible to ensure a remedy. This is especially important if the manufacturer's guarantee only lasts for 6 months and it is now month 8 and the manufacturer would ask for payment to carry out a repair. The shop should do this for you at no cost.

Typical scenario:-

The majority of standard manufacturer's guarantees last 6 months to one year. Your washing machine has broken after 13 months and so is no longer under guarantee. You return to the shop who tells you that you must contact the manufacturer. The manufacturer either says they can do nothing as it is outside the guarantee period or they can repair but you must pay. This is always happening and you should remember that in such a case the shop is still liable to repair the defect at no cost to you. If they say no, put your complaint to them in writing and as a last resort you can take a small claims action against the shop.

Extended Warranties:-

When you are buying the item, the shop may also offer you an extended warranty. Manufacturers can offer extended warranties as well. This is a bit like an insurance policy in that you are paying for extra cover for when the free manufactuer's guarantee runs out.


But do you really need it anyway? Remember most defects occur within the first year of purchase so ask yourself how long you expect to have the item and if you think you need additional cover. Remember you also have your statutory rights which usually last longer than the standard manufacturer's guarantee.

What to look out for:

Pressure selling: The sales assistant may pressure you into buying this as they may be on commission. Remember it is optional. Thankfully commission based selling of extended warranties isn't generally practiced here anymore.

Home insurance: Check your home insurance policy as it they usually cover accidental damage to items already. They tend to specifically mention items such as computers, printeres, scanners, TV and audio equipment. When buying home insurance you can also add specific items to the policy if you want extra cover for damage. Note that this won't cover defects however.

High Price: Consumer organisations in Ireland and Britain have warned that while extended warranties can offer peace of mind, they can come at a high price, as premiums can sometimes cost as much as 50% of the pucrhase price.

Examples - Apple sell extended support which can go up to €349 for an extra two years for service and technical support or about €43 for extended cover on an iPod Classic. Charges for Argos replacement cover increase relative to the price of the item. (I.e. €2.49 for general electrical items of €5 -€9.99 and €31.99 for electrical items costing €140 - €154.99). Currys have prices like €75 for three years extended for a DVD player, which also includes accidental damage. Power City's extended cover generally does not cover accidental damage and you might pay €20 on a DVD recorder for example for an additional two years.

http://www.rte.ie/tv/theafternoonshow/2010/0330/warrantiesandguarantees894.html

copacetic

The Cush wrote: »

Sony freesat TV in the Power City advert in today's Sunday newspapers.

not sure on that one, power city claiming irish digital ready but sony uk site says Mpeg2 only. Power City are generally pretty good with their claims though, so possibly it's just lacking the correct model code.

The Cush

copacetic wrote: »

not sure on that one, power city claiming irish digital ready but sony uk site says Mpeg2 only. Power City are generally pretty good with their claims though, so possibly it's just lacking the correct model code.

I have the 32W5810 model (100 Hz) and it's MPEG-4 & MHEG-5. Forget the Sony website it never mentions DVB-T/MPEG-4 only DVB-T2/MPEG-4, I guess they don't want to confuse potential freeview-HD customers. Check the specs in the manual.

I posted some information on the tv when I purchased it some months ago.

STB

Sony ALWAYS had the specs wrong on their website.

Another example of Sony products being dumped here because the new Freeview/Freesat HD combos are out for the UK market. This time it is to our benefit!

Brilliant. Is there country settings on these ?

championc

Do Sony have a FreeviewHD / Freesat HD combo box now ? I thought the Panasonic G20B was the only one which had both of the HD tuners onboard.


C

slegs

championc wrote: »

Do Sony have a FreeviewHD / Freesat HD combo box now ? I thought the Panasonic G20B was the only one which had both of the HD tuners onboard.


C

They have Combo TVs....

The Cush

championc wrote: »

Do Sony have a FreeviewHD / Freesat HD combo box now ?

No.

Freeview SD/Freesat HD combo TVs only.

JDxtra

So, as it stands - do the Sony Freesat TVs work perfect for Irish DTT/UK Freesat with full EPGs for both? Or is there some compromise?

STB

We will not know until the soft launch or until they start implementing what is in the spec Jon.

The very worst thing that can happen is that you would have to change Country to Ireland switching off the 7 day Freesat EPG in favour of now next. Given they are being sold in Ireland you have some comeback.

A Sony Freesat HD Freeview HD combo must be on the horizon if they are being sold off by Powercity. Most consumer in UK are aware of the Freeview HD tuner now and their are plenty of Combos available through Panasonic and LG.

The Cush

JDxtra wrote: »

So, as it stands - do the Sony Freesat TVs work perfect for Irish DTT/UK Freesat with full EPGs for both? Or is there some compromise?

As it stands, to get full epgs for both the TV must be installed with UK set as the country, this places the Irish DTT channels in the 800's but can be manually moved to the correct position.

Irish DTT works ok with epg & MHEG-5 for digital text in both country settings.

If you still use analogue VHF for the RTÉ channels the UK setting disables the VHF tuner, the Ireland restores the VHF analogue tuner but disables the freesat option and its features but you get the multi-satellite (DiSEqC) receiver option with now & next info and no epg or red button.

fat-tony

JDxtra wrote: »

So, as it stands - do the Sony Freesat TVs work perfect for Irish DTT/UK Freesat with full EPGs for both? Or is there some compromise?

To add my 2 cents to what The Cush has already said. I bought a Sony KDL32V5810 from my local Power City a couple of weeks ago. This is the 50Hz model (not the 100 Hz "W" model). Excellent picture quality, built-in Freesat EPG and works fine with the current Saorsat DTT config - 7 day EPG and MHEG working fine. You have to set it up with a GB (or NI) postcode to take advantage of the Freesat EPG, which puts the RTENL DTT in the 800's, but you can easily change them back to 101, 102 etc. I occasionally get sporadic reception from UK Freeview so I've turned off the automatic terrestrial tuning so as not to disturb the RTENL settings.
The TV is DLNA compatible so I've connected it to my home network in the past two days and can stream video, music and photos from Media Player 12 (Windows 7). Surprisingly easy setup with Win 7, but I struggled a bit with Microsoft's insistence on transcoding video to 720x480 (ie NTSC) resolution. Finally got it to PAL 720x576, but realistically it shouldn't need to transcode to this TV at all as it is capable of handling HD natively over the network. Also got the initial menus working in BBC iPlayer (on the red button service on BBC), so I can browse and search TV listings, but it won't actually stream any actual video from the BBC (due to geoblocking I assume). There are Sony-supplied internet "widgets" which allow you to display a nice graphical world clock, download photos and otherwise use up your broadband allowance:D.
Overall, I am very impressed with the level of capability of the TV.

Kenny Powers

STB wrote: »

LG LF7700 range. Difficult to get but they can be got (reason being they have stopped making them for UK market as they now use something else for HD Freeview - that doesnt effect us though - perfect for Ireland if you can get one). Does both and plays Divx via USB afaik. Full HD. Analogue tuners as well. When you see RTE on DTT you will forget about analogue grainy reception!

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=67557711&postcount=21

AVOID PANASONIC FREESAT COMBO TVs! (I cant emphasise that enough). The DVB-T tuners will be useless in the coming months if people that have already bought them dont back up their channel lists to an SD card.

How do you do a backup?

JDxtra

I wonder if anybody locally has ever tried one of the Samsung LED TVs with combo tuners (sat + cable / DTT)? Komplett and Pixmania both stock the Samsung UE32C8790. It's very pricey at €800+ but I suppose it is an LED.

The satellite tuner is interesting - I know it won't support the Freesat EPG, but it could be another option if you want a combo unit.

http://www.samsung.de/de/Privatkunden/TVHeimkino/Fernseher/LEDTV/ue32c6700/UE32C6700USXZG/detail.aspx

watty

LCD with LED backlight.

There ARE real true LED (unbeliveably expensive and huge) and AMOLED (which are only horribly expensive and not very big, and OLED are not true LEDs, more polarised EL panels) TVs.

These are not and should never be called "LED" TVs. There are even 3 kinds of LED backlight and two kinds are poorer than CFL, just thinner. R. G. B. LED backlights are best.

Machinehead

ppw wrote: »

help for a novice!
1. i recently purchased panasonic 42d25L (irish version). I have now read of the concerns over panasonic sat/dtt combination tvs. I am not very knowledgeable on these matters. Is there anything i should do with regards saving channels to sd card etc.

I have one satellite lead in room direct to tv. This receives fta.
The irish digital channels received too.
Analogue channels received too.

2. I have no recorder and am interested in getting something that will record programmes from the 42d25L.
i would like to record tv and watch another channel, is it possible with one lead or is it easy to adapt. I would also like to play dvd discs occasionally.

Welcome to the D25 club!
Relieved to hear that the D25 is not affected by the software problems affecting other Panasonic models. On the isue of the USB HDD setup, Panasonic certify only one HDD as being compatible with the D25 range.
http://panasonic.jp/support/global/cs/tv/compatibility/usb/option1.html
I have a 500Gb Targa USB HDD which I hope to try on the D25 sometime soon (have to back up the thing first, as I understand when the HDD setup is initiated the drive is formatted for use with TV. It would be nice to know if anyone has tried a HDD other than the one recommended by Panasonic & got it to function correctly).
DVD playback is super, especially thru Blu-Ray via HDMI.
One other issue - cleaning the screen - the manual says a mix of water & detergent. My screen needs a clean after set up - not sure if I want to go down the water route though!
Great TV - Crazy Price!

Anyone know where I can pick up a 19 inch TV that can pick up Irish DTT?

I need one for the kids bedroom, not worried about on screen text etc just need it to be able to pick up the channels.

Thanks.

watty

Wait 2 months?

watty

watty wrote: »

Wait 2 months?

I could but im trying to sort out the Christmas presents for the kids.

Wanted to purchase something that can pick up DTT and get it out of the way.

Like i said im not really bothered about Digital Text, I just want them to be able to pick up the DTT channels and connect their X boxes.

Sponge Bob

French "TNT HD" Rated boxes will do everything bar teletext.

Pixmania have lots that will support Xbox/HDMI/MPEG4/Digital TV

EG

http://www.pixmania.ie/ie/uk/5096293/art/panasonic/viera-tx-p42u20e-plasma-s.html
http://www.pixmania.ie/ie/uk/6166542/art/akai/dlc-e1951sw-led-televisio.html?itag=3891
http://www.pixmania.ie/ie/uk/6166542/art/akai/dlc-e1951sw-led-televisio.html?itag=3891
http://www.pixmania.ie/ie/uk/5310397/art/sony/kdl-19bx200-lcd-televisio.html

watty

Deleted User wrote: »

I could but im trying to sort out the Christmas presents for the kids.

Christmas is 3 months. 4 to 6 weeks spare it you wait a bit. Soft launch and start of Info campaign is 31st October 2010, about 5 weeks away...

watty

watty wrote: »

Christmas is 3 months. 4 to 6 weeks spare it you wait a bit. Soft launch and start of Info campaign is 31st October 2010, about 5 weeks away...

Are we expecting to see a host of TV`s on the market though?

If so I will wait as you advice.

Thanks again.