Lunatic Pastor gets mosque moved.

demonspawn

Pastor Terry Jones appeared in front of the media again and said that he has received all his information from Imam Muhammad Musri and was told a deal had been struck, even though Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf has realeased a statement saying he was as surprised as everyone else.

Terry Jones Says in a Speech That Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf Has Agreed to Move the Location of the New York City Mosque Near Ground Zero and He Will Cancel 'Burn a Quran' Day

http://www.nowpublic.com/world/terry-jones-burn-quran-canceled-ground-zero-mosque-move-2662450.html

Well, it seems all you have to do to impose your opinion on another person is to threaten to destroy their most important piece of literature. Good job democracy, good to see you hard at work once again. Will this trigger a backlash from Muslims against the Imams? I don't think so but it's a possibility.

jank

Is there a better source for this? I doubt this is true!

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/americas/2010/09/20109921337885578.html

Reverend Terry Jones said on Thursday that he made the decision to cancel the event because the leader of a planned Islamic centre near the so-called Ground Zero site in New York had agreed to move its location.

However sources close to the imam of the planned Islamic centre told the Reuters news agency that he had not agreed to any such deal, and that the centre would not be moved.

"There has been no agreement. There have been no discussions with this pastor," one of the sources, who spoke on condition of anonymity, said.

aidan_walsh

CNN:

Jones insisted he had been told of a deal to move the New York mosque.
"We assumed what the imam [Musri] said was true. Now, we're in a state of limbo and we have to rethink our position," Jones said Thursday evening. "We are rethinking our position. We are reconsidering, but we'd like to think what the Imam said was true. We're a little back to square one. We hope this thing works out."

Rauf issued a statement earlier Thursday.

"I am glad that Pastor Jones has decided not to burn any Qurans. However, I have not spoken to Pastor Jones or Imam Musri. I am surprised by their announcement. We are not going to toy with our religion or any other. Nor are we going to barter. We are here to extend our hands to build peace and harmony."

jank

LOL, so the crazy rev "pretends" he was shafted by those pesky muslims....
What an ass!

demonspawn

He could be lying through his teeth or the Imam could have said something that he misunderstood.

If the mosque is moved because of this book burning then Muslims will feel bitter. If the mosque stays and the book burning goes ahead, Muslims will be furious but I don't think anything serious will come of it. Perhaps we'll see attacks on the community center, perhaps not.

All I know is this will only end in tears. Sad state of affair altogether and that pastor and anyone supporting him should be ashamed of themselves. It's bloody Nazi Germany all over again.

Einhard

While I completely condemn the burning as needlessly provocative, offensive, small minded, and dangerous, I also think that Muslims around the world should learn to take offence with a bit more equanimity. The hysterical reaction and over the top outrage is exactly what the church have been looking for. Muslims should stop taking such grave offence to every slight, perceived and otherwise.

demonspawn

Einhard wrote: »

While I completely condemn the burning as needlessly provocative, offensive, small minded, and dangerous, I also think that Muslims around the world should learn to take offence with a bit more equanimity. The hysterical reaction and over the top outrage is exactly what the church have been looking for. Muslims should stop taking such grave offence to every slight, perceived and otherwise.

Go burn a statue of Jesus on the cross in front of a Catholic church and let me know how you get on.

mowhawk

Einhard, your post encapsulates the entire problem, the 'ability' of muslims to be offended and their totally over the top reaction to even the slightest criticism of their faith seems to have become the norm for Islam. The famous Danish cartoons are a typical example for instance. However this assh**e preacher from Florida is only playing into the extremists hands. He certainly does more harm than good.

mowhawk

demonspawn wrote: »

Go burn a statue of Jesus on the cross in front of a Catholic church and let me know how you get on.

Hey, don't worry, for certain you will not be beheaded or stoned to death demonspawn

PeakOutput

first of all i think putting a mosque that close to ground zero is a retarded idea and just should not be done

BUT

its not as retarded as the amount of attention this guy is getting

who the **** cares

let him burn the quarans, let him burn whatever the **** he wants he is a cult leader with about 50 members of his church in a community were anyone who is not in his church dosnt support him

if this guy gets his way we will see him in the news every couple of months just like that other cult leader who pickets the soldiers funerals that people like to give air time to

not every little bigot is worth air time cut him off from the attention let him do what he wants to do and lets never mention his name or church again

Einhard

demonspawn wrote: »

Go burn a statue of Jesus on the cross in front of a Catholic church and let me know how you get on.

I'm pretty certain I wouldn't have Australian, Brazilian, Swedish and Mexican Christians target Irish embassies and citizens for attack...

I'm pretty certain that the Irish foreign minister wouldn't have to issue a statement that my actions would lead to the death of my fellow countrymen...

Let's face it, Muslims have a problem when it comes to dealing with slights.

demonspawn

Einhard wrote: »

I'm pretty certain I wouldn't have Australian, Brazilian, Swedish and Mexican Christians target Irish embassies and citizens for attack...

I'm pretty certain that the Irish foreign minister wouldn't have to issue a statement that my actions would lead to the death of my fellow countrymen...

Let's face it, Muslims have a problem when it comes to dealing with slights.

Some people in this country will stab you if you look at them funny. There are lunatics everywhere and Muslim countries are no different. You cannot lump all Muslims together because a few go a bit mental when westerners insult their faith. Considering the history of western interference in the Middle East, it's understandable that some Muslims are just at the end of their tether. The majority of Muslims (there's a good few million of them) do not go ape**** every time someone draws a picture of Mohammad or burns a Qur'an.

demonspawn

By the way, it's the ones that go around with South Park pictures of Mohammad in their signatures and similar people who are making things so difficult. When you know that something offends a large number of people and you go out of your way to do that, then you deserve whatever you may get.

I'd expect to be beaten to death if I paraded around Tel Aviv in an SS uniform. That's why I wouldn't be stupid enough to do something so obviously offensive to millions of people.

Peanut

Why did Petraeus, Clinton and Obama give this guy so much publicity, when they knew a- Additional publicity would just contribute to any subsequent backlash in the middle east in the event that it did/does go ahead, and b- There was nothing they could do to stop him anyway.

Ok so the press would have picked it up regardless, and after the story grew in the past few days there was something of a requirement for Obama to voice disapproval, however the initial stirring up seems somewhat suspicious - are US officials now going to be required to apologise for every lunatic element in the country or just those ones where drawing attention to the case will encourage it to spiral out of proportion to some, potentially nefarious, end?

RandomName2

Peanut wrote: »

Why did Petraeus, Clinton and Obama give this guy so much publicity, when they knew a- Additional publicity would just contribute to any subsequent backlash in the middle east in the event that it did/does go ahead, and b- There was nothing they could do to stop him anyway.

Ok so the press would have picked it up regardless, and after the story grew in the past few days there was something of a requirement for Obama to voice disapproval, however the initial stirring up seems somewhat suspicious - are US officials now going to be required to apologise for every lunatic element in the country or just those ones where drawing attention to the case will encourage it to spiral out of proportion to some, potentially nefarious, end?

Petraeus heard about this and said - Christ this is not going to make life easier

Obama and Clinton heard this and wanted to make sure their credentials as open minded liberals was understood by the world.

Media hype bred media hype (did you know that a cat was dumped in a bin the other day!?!?)

Of course this had the effect of making a non-issue a real issue, bringing it to the attention of countries that would not ordinarily know about this. Countries? Had the media not got involved the amount of people that would know about this story would be 60 (well the pastor would hardly have been bothered buying all those Korans if it was going to be limited to that).

On one hand one can say - Jesus you would have to be pretty loony to go 'death to America' for some random individual burning korans. Well, that's true - but it is necessary to drive a middle course in countries that can currently go either way at the moment: either rational semi-secular capitalist democracy or crazy fascistique aggressive dictatorship.

It is not so much the pastor who was at fault here, but the media. Just like with the 'mohammad cartoon' affair. They should be ashamed of themselves.

Are you outraged. How outraged are you? Are you outraged yet?

metrovelvet

demonspawn wrote: »

Go burn a statue of Jesus on the cross in front of a Catholic church and let me know how you get on.

People do this all the time. Cities have not been blown up over it and lives were not put in danger over it. The Gay activist group ACT UP walked into St Patrick's Cathedral and spat the eucharists out all over the floor.
Burning copies of the Koran is not the same thing as burning the Book of Kells or the Sistene Chapel which are irreplaceable, or indeed the twin towers, with you know a lot of people in.

SeanW

demonspawn wrote: »

then you deserve whatever you may get.

I suppose Theo Van Gogh deserved what he got?

You cannot lump all Muslims together because a few go a bit mental when westerners insult their faith.

Yes but it does seem to be almost unique to that religion, e.g. you wouldn't expect an orgy of murder and hatred if you burned a pile of Bibles, mocked the Christian/Jewish god etc you wouldn't rationally have the same fear for your life as if you had done so to Islam.

In fact a very pointed example of this happened in 2001 when the Afghan Taliban destroyed some 5000 year old Buddha statues in the mountains. Very old, priceless and irreplacable artifacts of a very fine, cultured religion. Destroyed because they were illegal according to the values of a pack of bigot cavemen.

Now, maybe I missed some newscasts in the days after that atrocity, but where were the Buddhist faithful? Where was the madness, murder and hatred, from people who - for once - would actually have been entitled to feel strongly aggrieved?

It seems to me that there is a double standard. You can attack any religion you like in perfect safety - as long as it isn't Islam.

Nodin

SeanW wrote: »

I suppose Theo Van Gogh deserved what he got?

Yes but it does seem to be almost unique to that religion, e.g. you wouldn't expect an orgy of murder and hatred if you burned a pile of Bibles, mocked the Christian/Jewish god etc you wouldn't rationally have the same fear for your life as if you had done so to Islam.
.

...in the West. Try it in Nigeria or other parts of Africa, or even the middle east.

af_thefragile

I wouldn't mind if they moved the mosque cultural center for the sake of the many Americans opposing it.

But I really wouldn't like them moving to please that nut job! Why is everyone taking him so seriously!

Einhard

af_thefragile wrote: »

But I really wouldn't like them moving to please that nut job! Why is everyone taking him so seriously!

Nobody would take him seriously if it weren't for the fact that Muslim extremists have threatened to kill and attack Western targets in retaliation for his actions. This does not happen when the icons of other religions are desecrated, as they routinely are.

demonspawn

SeanW wrote: »

I suppose Theo Van Gogh deserved what he got?

When he was criticized by the Jewish historian Evelien Gans, he wrote in Folia Civitatis, the weekly newspaper of the University of Amsterdam: "I suspect that Ms. Gans gets wet dreams about being f*cked by Dr Mengele."

You're right, he deserved a hell of a lot worse. If you had any clue about who Mengele was you'd know how utterly devastating would be to anyone. van Gogh was a sick twisted person who deserved what he got.

metrovelvet

Einhard wrote: »

Nobody would take him seriously if it weren't for the fact that Muslim extremists have threatened to kill and attack Western targets in retaliation for his actions. This does not happen when the icons of other religions are desecrated, as they routinely are.

I didnt see Dublin being blown up after Sinead ripped up the picture of the Pope on Saturday night live. If she did that to Mohammad forget about it.

Mjollnir

demonspawn wrote: »

You're right, he deserved a hell of a lot worse. If you had any clue about who Mengele was you'd know how utterly devastating would be to anyone. van Gogh was a sick twisted person who deserved what he got.

Your laughably over-the-top hyperbole brings to mind the old adage about sticks and stones.

How 'utterly devastating'? Effing please.

LostinKildare

Somewhere in Pakistan Osama is laughing his ass off.

Wompa1

All week I've been thinking that Pastor is a numpty and what a nightmare he is for Obama...he couldn't be seen trying to stop him or he would be crapping all over his freedom of speech.

Letting him do it would possibly provoke peaceful members of the Islam community against America for putting freedom of speech above their religion...

I've been watching 9/11 documentaries for the last 4 hours now and I still think the guys is a numpty but screw it. People in the Videos celebrating the towers coming down are probably the same ones protesting against the possible burning of the Koran. F'k em

demonspawn

Mjollnir wrote: »

Your laughably over-the-top hyperbole brings to mind the old adage about sticks and stones.

How 'utterly devastating'? Effing please.

You obviously have no fuking clue who Joseph Mengele was. Let me enlighten you.

Mengele's experiments also included attempts to take one twin's eyeballs and attach them to the back of the other twin's head, changing eye colour by injecting chemicals into children's eyes, various amputations of limbs, and other brutal surgeries. Rena Gelissen's account of her time in Auschwitz details certain experiments performed on female prisoners around October 1943. Mengele would experiment on the chosen girls, performing sterilization and shock treatments. Most of the victims died, because of either the experiments or later infections.

At Auschwitz, Mengele did a number of twin studies. After the experiment was over, these twins were usually murdered and their bodies dissected. He supervised an operation by which two Romani children were sewn together to create conjoined twins; the hands of the children became badly infected where the veins had been resected, this also caused gangrene.

Auschwitz prisoner Alex Dekel has said: "I have never accepted the fact that Mengele himself believed he was doing serious work — not from the slipshod way he went about it. He was only exercising his power. Mengele ran a butcher shop — major surgeries were performed without anaesthesia. Once, I witnessed a stomach operation — Mengele was removing pieces from the stomach, but without any anaesthetic. Another time, it was a heart that was removed, again without anaesthesia. It was horrifying. Mengele was a doctor who became mad because of the power he was given. Nobody ever questioned him — why did this one die? Why did that one perish? The patients did not count. He professed to do what he did in the name of science, but it was a madness on his part."

Educate yourself before you make such ignorant and insulting comments.

Denerick

The man shouldn't burn the Koran as it will piss off loads of Muslims and lead to death.

However this exposes a major problem - that you cannot piss off a load of Muslims without it ending in death.

South Park dealt with this issue very well.

Eliot Rosewater

The Irish Examiner's front page today carried a picture of Pakistani lawyers protesting against the burning of the Koran by ... burning an American flag.

What an astounding level of hypocrisy. At least the American pastor is being consistent in his idiocy.

Mjollnir

demonspawn wrote: »

You obviously have no fuking clue who Joseph Mengele was. Let me enlighten you.

I know exactly who he was, Timmay. I've forgotten more history then you'll ever bumble through.

Educate yourself before you make such ignorant and insulting comments.

I'm quite happy with my education, thanks, but I'm quite concerned about your either missing or dodging my point, i.e., your breathlessly hyperbolic and manufactured outrage is childish, transparent and indicative of someone looking to give more importance to a trivial matter. And pretending to be insulted is most unbecoming.

IOW, grow up, hmmm?

Overheal

Wompa1 wrote: »

All week I've been thinking that Pastor is a numpty and what a nightmare he is for Obama...he couldn't be seen trying to stop him or he would be crapping all over his freedom of speech.

Letting him do it would possibly provoke peaceful members of the Islam community against America for putting freedom of speech above their religion...

I've been watching 9/11 documentaries for the last 4 hours now and I still think the guys is a numpty but screw it. People in the Videos celebrating the towers coming down are probably the same ones protesting against the possible burning of the Koran. F'k em

The problem occurs when those people are the ones launching terrorist attacks.

old_aussie

demonspawn wrote: »

Go burn a statue of Jesus on the cross in front of a Catholic church and let me know how you get on.

What is the point of that?

The pastor in burning a koran in front of a christian church in the USA!

Don't you mean....go burn a bible in front of a mosque in Iran????

You would most likely achieve national hero status.

Bring on the koran burning I say

Memnoch

old_aussie wrote: »

Bring on the koran burning I say

Do you not realise that your extreme discriminatory hatred of all Muslims makes you seem EXACTLY like the people you so despise?

bmaxi

Speaking chronologically, Islam is about 600 years behind Christianity in it's evolution. I doubt you'd have done much Bible burning in Europe in the 15th century.

mowhawk

bmaxi wrote: »

Speaking chronologically, Islam is about 600 years behind Christianity in it's evolution. I doubt you'd have done much Bible burning in Europe in the 15th century.

That is exactly the point that I have been making for years! For example the Inquisition was even worse than the Taliban ever will be.

Stingerbar

The girl who started the 'make a cartoon of Mohammed' day has effectively had to go into hiding a la witness protection.

Hasn't there been a mosque near ground zero for ages?

Gunmonkey

Stingerbar wrote: »

Hasn't there been a mosque near ground zero for ages?

4 blocks away apparantly, but its not a "Victory Mosque", so it doesnt matter :rolleyes:

Overheal

The fcuk does Dick Morris know anyway :pac:

Nodin

Stingerbar wrote: »

The girl who started the 'make a cartoon of Mohammed' day has effectively had to go into hiding a la witness protection.

Hasn't there been a mosque near ground zero for ages?

Yes, probably, but nothing to do with it coincided with an election and peoples need for media attention.