Have your politics changed?

timespast

A couple of years ago we were being told the Celtic Tiger was to last X amount of years.

Our unemployment rate was minimal and we were told we were second in Europe reg. a successful economy.

I can't believe Politicians couldn't see this coming........ and indeed Bankers..... the size of the loan books within the Banks should surely have seen it coming?

Now as we look at the mess we are in have your politics changed?

I guess if I was from a highly succesful family I wouldn't be that worried (ok the Merc or the 4x4 used for shopping might have to go)......I want to know from Joe Soap if their Politics have significantly shifted?

The position I now find myself in I have definitely shifted back to left wing..... I get so frusrtrated with the same old Parties ....my Father voted so and so etc.

I'm getting on now but Im amazed how many young people follow family tradition in how they vote....thats if they vote at all.

So, a dramatic change or the same old same old and fingers crossed?

Lenny Lovett

I grew up in a staunch Fianna Fail house. My parents, grandparents etc all FF. I voted FF up to the departure of Bertie. I wouldn't vote FF while Cowan is still in charge but would consider it if Brian Lenihan took over. I dallied for a while with voting FG or Labour but they've proved they have no balls as they should have been taking FF apart over the past year or two but they've done f*** all!

arybvtcw0eolkf

Have politics changed?.

Well without getting into the whole science behind it, yes.

I've always pretty much voted along family lines - FF.. And honestly, it'll be a cold day in hell before I vote for them again.

ATM I know where my preference is, and I'd rather not go into it here as I struggle with the parties policies which I don't agree on at all.

So yes, my politics have changed.. I won't be voting FF for the foreseeable future.

Bottle_of_Smoke

Now have a lot of contempt for capitalism yet know socialism is never going to happen

So apathy it is

zootroid

My politics haven't really changed, the country has been p!ssing away money for years, so I've always been a little cynical. But given what has gone on, the corruption, behaviour of the banks, government still in power, pay offs for civil servants, I'm more convinced more than ever that we are being led by people who are either stupid, corrupt, or both. The interests of the state are second to their own self interests. And given how much the average citizen is going to have to pay for their actions, it gives me a huge incentive to emigrate, which isn't something I had seen myself doing. Because the alternative is to remain here, with less prospects, and be reminded constantly of how we've been f*cked over.

timespast

zootroid wrote: »

My politics haven't really changed, the country has been p!ssing away money for years, so I've always been a little cynical. But given what has gone on, the corruption, behaviour of the banks, government still in power, pay offs for civil servants, I'm more convinced more than ever that we are being led by people who are either stupid, corrupt, or both. The interests of the state are second to their own self interests. And given how much the average citizen is going to have to pay for their actions, it gives me a huge incentive to emigrate, which isn't something I had seen myself doing. Because the alternative is to remain here, with less prospects, and be reminded constantly of how we've been f*cked over.

When my eldest two finish college I hope they too emigrate (Obv. Id like to have them here) to create a life for themselves. I'd be off too if I could manage it....impossible.
In the meantime I'm going to get into politics myself ....... Id love to think that the unemployed, people in work, young and old start thinking...shag this for a laugh.

View

I am more inclined to support the Greens.

scr123

A few points for those who previously voted FF and now have serious problems with the party.

The three major problems are:

Banks

Bust property bubble

Recession

Without the expansion of credit and low interest rates we would not have the Celtic Tiger. The Celtic Tiger was huge increase in workforce, 7%+ average annual growth, extraordinary increase in services, extraordinary increase in infrastructure, extraordinary reductions in personal taxes and countless other improvments we never dreamt of. The arrogant bullies in the ABFF refuse point blank to acknowledge that anything good happens under FF. Of course its that mentality that caused the ABFF to lose the last 6 elections in a row and not win since 1982 and its that mentality that is the biggest danger to them losing the next election.
Yes, we borrowed massive amount of money on the never never and payback time has arrived. Yes, the property bubble was crazy but it wasnt all bad as the majority of people who bought house will testify, many would not have had a hope in hell of getting on the property market..
Yes there is a big debt hanging over the country right now but the benefits we have were beyond our wildest dreams and could have not been obtained without massive debt. The benefits are still with us and the main benefit is that there is a minimum of 600,000 now working in this country who would not have a job if the country had not rapidly expanded.
Finally, even without the credit expansion and the property bubble this country would have been caught up in recession. The clowns in the ABFF do not have the brains nor the character to acknowledge this.
In fact its clear these people are under the crazy belief that money grows on trees and that they will ban recessions when they come to power.
The ABFF are natural born losers and its safe to say they have never been involved the growth of the Irish economy and their contribution to the weath creation necessary to provide services has been the absolute minimum
They also go on and on about the allegations of corruption in FF but never acknowledge that the small number of FF people involved have been discredited inside and outside the FF party.
I am staunch FF not because of family background and I doubt if my other 7 siblings still alive vote FF. Simple speaking its the grey matter that makes me vote FF and so far there is nothing in the ABFF that would go near even allowing me consider changing. I say to those FF voters considering changing to not allow themselves to be brainwashed by the brainwashed

Liam Byrne

As someone who's always looked to find a proper balance between socialism and capitalism (if one even exists) my own personal politics and opinions haven't changed.

People say "look, socialism failed" or "look, communism failed". What they refuse to acknowledge is that blatant capitalism has failed 3 or 4 times at this stage, but those with money (and the resulting power) always try to bring it back, or shaft the little people to retain their massive over-inflated power trips and income.

Money is a transitional commodity. You only need a certain amount to buy what you need and what you want. Even the phrasing of capitalism is wrong, with the magazines saying that someone "is worth" €200 million; they're not - they just happen to have it.

The old phrase of someone "being worth their weight in gold" means they are far, far better; they may be poor, but who cares ? As long as they have enough to survive (or hopefully to actually "live") then we're on the right track.

FF are a cancer. We know that. Anyone who doesn't see that is pretty deluded, and I'm delighted to read that at least a few former FF voters have copped themselves on, even if it is too little too late at this stage.

When FF & the PDs got together, they weren't actually half bad, corruption tolerance aside.

But having gotten things improved, they forgot to stop digging.

Not one safeguard was put in place to ensure that privatised - read "more efficiently run" - companies kept their service levels up and their prices down. Eircom sold but with the state keeping the "last mile", would be an example. Hell, even a caveat on the Anglo guarantee of "if you're telling us the truth about your books" would have saved us from the bulk of the current mess.

But no; governments seem to only have safeguards and caveats for their own murky expenses and benefactors, and not for their employees : us.

Lie about where you live : no problem - it's called "principal place of residence, so you can get away with it"

Lie about your losses : no problem - sure we didn't put in any restrictions

The problem is that if FG & Labour were actually effective then this decrepid excuse for a government would be out on its ear long ago.

This is why I think the whole thing needs to be rebuilt from the ground up; no "left" and "right" bull**** - just competent and accountable governance.

There's a reason that a referee isn't with either side....it's so that it doesn't cloud their judgement.

The first step might be to ban all spin-doctors and consultants so that those we elect have to explain their own actions without the assistance of a bunch of lies.

Honesty, transparency and competence can't be too much to ask for, can they ?

Mind you, I'm not convinced we'll get the above in this country, because people still keep voting for the con-men, even when they are evicted from parties (e.g. Lowry & FF).

People say you get the government you deserve.

Unfortunately you don't. You get the government some people deserve.

So my views haven't changed, but I'm increasingly convinced that we'll never have good governance in this country, because the will isn't there.

I would, however, gladly install Shane Ross as a dictator in the morning.

PeterIanStaker

I dont know if I've changed, but my cynicism has deepened so much in the last year and a half that I nearly think theres no point in voting or even caring about having a say. If it wasn't for personal circumstances I'd be abroad by now, but I'm going to press on. Fuckem.

Cookie_Monster

PeterIanStaker wrote: »

I dont know if I've changed, but my cynicism has deepened so much in the last year and a half that I nearly think theres no point in voting or even caring about having a say. If it wasn't for personal circumstances I'd be abroad by now, but I'm going to press on. Fuckem.

+1 on that. I feel very similar, no matter who runs they'll end up the same, taking advantage of the gravy train and doing little for the country. I've also realised that although being a "green" person, the greens themselves have very questionable green policies IMO and I'll never vote for them again.

Corsendonk

Well I come from a Labour-FF family and gave my number one to the Greens at the last election but still undecided who to vote for.

Apart from their policies I voted Green because I can't stand that Irish trait to vote for relatives of the last serving TDs. I feel that nepotisism politics has played its part in ruining Ireland, Ray Burke, Cooper Flynn for examples.

FG I would consider if they actually picked someone with personality to lead the party but doubt that will happen before the next election and I won't be voting FF for that reason and many others. Labour is my other option but guess what, the candidate they have picked is a brother of the last Labour TD in the area.

piby

Well come from a FG family but voted FF and Greens in the last election. I would have considered FG if they'd made Bruton their leader but alas the backbenchers were too busy looking after their own backsides to do so! I like Gilmore but I'm unsure about Labour as a whole in the same way I like Joe Higgins but I'm also sure about the Socialists.

simplistic2

PeterIanStaker wrote: »

I dont know if I've changed, but my cynicism has deepened so much in the last year and a half that I nearly think theres no point in voting or even caring about having a say. If it wasn't for personal circumstances I'd be abroad by now, but I'm going to press on. Fuckem.

Spot on and not only is it worthless but continuing to vote is an embarrassing act to anybody who sees the state for what it is.

To stop voting is an act of self respect.

conor678

Has my politics changed, definitely yes. I am a young voter who has been failed by the economic policies of FF and for that reason I will not be voting for them in a very very long time. I'd rather vote for anyone but FF then not vote at all though

Nolanger

timespast wrote: »

I can't believe Politicians couldn't see this coming........

Why? Most of them are ex-school teachers, not exactly the most visionary of occupations?

round tower huntsman

yes. was defo very right wing as a kid but as i matured and got some life experience i've shifted to the left. its painfully clear to me right wing agendas and capitilism greeds have ruined our country.
if my kids have any hope of a decent life in ireland then a major shift to the left is required.

thebman

I've always been a the right policy for the right circumstance.

Sometimes the market can be best and sometimes we need state run systems IMO to have the best of both worlds.

As with most things, there is no one size fits all block.

Which is why I like that Ireland usually has coalition parties and I like that I can vote for a mix up.

Of course I believe in consequences to actions so FF must go at next election until they learn their lesson that just pursuing populist agenda's and pandering to lobby groups and people making donations to their party is unacceptable.

timespast

Nolanger wrote: »

Why? Most of them are ex-school teachers, not exactly the most visionary of occupations?

That may be true but politicians (particularly Ministers) have an array of advisers and civil servants advising them behind the scenes.

I'm certainly not implying that politicians are all knowing.

So many T.D.'s become councillors by 35 and prepare themselves to take over Daddy's Dail seat.

rainbow kirby

I've always been on the left side of things, have probably moved from being at the tree-hugging hippy side of things towards a more social democratic position.

I generally vote Labour/Green/Socialist Party, probably won't ever vote Green again because I'm extremely annoyed at their performance in government.

Nolanger

timespast wrote: »

That may be true but politicians (particularly Ministers) have an array of advisers and civil servants advising them behind the scenes.

Here's something no economist will tell you. No senior servant would say something like 'recession on the way we're fuc*ed!'. These people get selected for senior roles in the Civil Service based on their communication skills. The ones who go against the grain get filtered out.

Liam Byrne

Nolanger wrote: »

Here's something no economist will tell you. No senior servant would say something like 'recession on the way we're fuc*ed!'. These people get selected for senior roles in the Civil Service based on their communication skills. The ones who go against the grain get filtered out.

Communication is about telling the truth; maybe phrasing it softer at times.

"Communication Skills" do not include lying.

Nolanger

What's the point in having good communication skills when you can't back it up with a brain? If more people in Dept Finance had relevant academic qualifications in economics then maybe we wouldn't be in this recession?

johnnyskeleton

timespast wrote: »

A couple of years ago we were being told the Celtic Tiger was to last X amount of years.

Our unemployment rate was minimal and we were told we were second in Europe reg. a successful economy.

I can't believe Politicians couldn't see this coming........ and indeed Bankers..... the size of the loan books within the Banks should surely have seen it coming?

Now as we look at the mess we are in have your politics changed?

I guess if I was from a highly succesful family I wouldn't be that worried (ok the Merc or the 4x4 used for shopping might have to go)......I want to know from Joe Soap if their Politics have significantly shifted?

The position I now find myself in I have definitely shifted back to left wing..... I get so frusrtrated with the same old Parties ....my Father voted so and so etc.

I'm getting on now but Im amazed how many young people follow family tradition in how they vote....thats if they vote at all.

So, a dramatic change or the same old same old and fingers crossed?

My general political views haven't changed, but what has changed are how people view my views on specific issues. For example, talk about how it was becoming harder and harder to own a house with increasing house prices was seen as left wing stupidity a few years ago when house prices were rising by double digits. Now, when I say that house prices still need to fall further I'm considered a right wing nutjob intent on destroying the economy for the lofty notion of the free market.

I think that the idea that failed private businesses should be wound up and the investors take the hit is either a left wing or a centerist view but apparently not, apparently that puts me in the same league as libertarians.

To talk about the waste of money that is social welfare 4 years ago was considered a fairly harmless, sunday afternoon in the pub type of discussion. Now, to mention cuts to social welfare is treated as incitement to hatred.

The big area in which my views have really changed is that I stopped caring around the time that the president signed the NAMA bill into law. Up to that point I was under the delusion that opposition parties, or the president, or the EU would call a halt to NAMA and expose it publically for what it really was. But nothing happened, and the president signed it with no greater difficulty than signing for a registered letter. After that, I've more or less being awaiting the day that the country is declared bankrupt so that we can all finally stop pretending and go live in mudhuts in Nepal until the universe explains itself to us.

Dirk Gently

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

and the president signed it with no greater difficulty than signing for a registered letter.

Could she have refused to sign it though, is she not obliged to sign everything put in front of her? The Irish presidency isn't a great example of separation of powers.