New VRT NCT Requirement

dahamsta

I was talking to PaintDoctor last week and he said that you now have to take imported cars to an NCT centre when you bring them in. I confirmed this somewhere the other day (can't remember where tbh), you have to book it in within 1 month of importing it, and as far as I remember the VRT is now calculated and collected at the NCT centre.

All that's reasonable enough, and course I'm open to correction if I got anything wrong. However PD also mentioned that options and extras will be enumerated as part of the process, which could throw calculations from the already woeful VRT calculator way out of whack. Does anyone have more info on this?

Thanks,
adam

bazz26

Yes, any factory fitted extras will be taken into account when calculating the VRT. Afaik this only applies to cars upto 4 years old as the extras are written off in depreciation over a 4 year period by Revenue.

corktina

you have to book within SEVEN days of importation and complete the process within 30 days...you will need to have the purchase receipt and evidence of date of import.

Voodoomelon

I read the same about the 4 year rule, i wonder if someone can confirm this with a reference?

Vertakill

Hasn't this always been the case though?

The Revenue offices staff just never liked getting off their arses to walk outside to your car so they never bothered?
Not that they could identify what was and what wasn't an extra based on their training...

bazz26

Upto recently they were only interested in high end German stuff, now it seems to be across the board.

Atlantic Dawn

I presume if say sat nav was standard for a particular model and thats the model you selected for calculation then no extra charge would apply?

Padraig Mor

Voodoomelon wrote: »

I read the same about the 4 year rule, i wonder if someone can confirm this with a reference?

Can't give a reference, but have definitely seen 'official' documentation to back this. Reduces by 25% a year.

kildare.17hmr

since the 1st of sept iv been trying to register 2 cars, a 09 audi A4 tdi and a 07 yaris auto(for a disabled driver). Yaris has been over 3 feckin times and everytime im asked for more documentation about the buyer, this is costing me 20 something euro everytime i have to rebook it and they are the ones giving me wrong info on what to bring!! the audi went in and they said yes thats fine but we cannot give you a price today, revenue will be in contact with you in the next 10 days!!!

The staff in the office (through no fault of their own i will add) are not properly trained and have absolutly no clue what they are doing, the girl got flustered everytime i asked her a question and did not no the answer then out comes another guy who could just say the same as her.

The customer for the yaris is looking for his car and getting impatent and luckely we are registering the audi for the boss so he'll just drive it on the uk plates for now but i can see sales being lost over this mess of a system

dahamsta

What docs are they looking for about the buyer? How does that impact on the VRT?

Also, does anyone have ANY references for this stuff? Not that I don't love all the info like, but I'd like to see the details from an official source.

Tragedy

dahamsta wrote: »

What docs are they looking for about the buyer? How does that impact on the VRT?

Also, does anyone have ANY references for this stuff? Not that I don't love all the info like, but I'd like to see the details from an official source.

The Revenue VRT handbook used by staff has been released under FoI, I've read it before but can't find the URL at the moment. You might have more luck googling than I.

Padraig Mor

Tragedy wrote: »

The Revenue VRT handbook used by staff has been released under FoI, I've read it before but can't find the URL at the moment. You might have more luck googling than I.

It's on the Revenue site. Couldn't be bothered geting a link though. Sorry.

DannyBuoy

dahamsta wrote: »

What docs are they looking for about the buyer? How does that impact on the VRT?

Also, does anyone have ANY references for this stuff? Not that I don't love all the info like, but I'd like to see the details from an official source.

http://www.ncts.ie/vrt.html

Padraig Mor

OK. I'll be nice. Here's all the official documentation. And there's a lot.
http://www.revenue.ie/en/about/foi/s16/vehicle-registration-tax/index.html

This is probably the most 'interesting' section: how cars are valued:
http://www.revenue.ie/en/about/foi/s16/vehicle-registration-tax/vrt-manual-section-8.pdf (pdf download link).


The bit dealing with extras is as follows:

Establish the value of any optional extras.
The next step in the valuation process is to establish if the particular vehicle has additional extras and, if so, to attach a value to them. This is done by reference to trade guides, supplier catalogues and other relevant source material. The extras are depreciated (at an accelerated basis) over the first 5 years of the life of the vehicle in accordance with the following table:-
Age of vehicle
Reduction in OMSP of extras
New car i.e. less than 3 months or with less than 3,000km
0%
3 months but less than 12 months
10%
12 months but less than 24 months
25%
24 months but less than 36 months
40%
36 months but less than 48 months
55%
48 months but less than 60 months
70%
60 months and over
100%
The depreciated price of the extras is then added to the OMSP of the vehicle and the combined OMSP will be again depreciated in accordance with the relevant depreciation table

As you can see I was wrong - extras are depreciated over five years, not four.

ianobrien

DannyBuoy wrote: »

http://www.ncts.ie/vrt.html

I was reading that NCT website. I read with interest that they accept cash up to a limit of 200euro. I thought that cash, as it is legal tender, must be accepted in payment of a debt. I also remember from somewhere that if cash is refused as payment, the debt is considered paid.

I find it curious that cash won't be accepted as payment!

Voodoomelon

Even worse, they won't even take credit cards!

opinion guy

So how are you supposed to pay.
Christ I think I'll just emigrate

Voodoomelon

Bank draft or postal order would you believe! At least thats the way it was 2 years ago, half the people waiting including myself had to leave and come back with "suitable" payment.

chasm

Voodoomelon wrote: »

Even worse, they won't even take credit cards!

According to the website they do:

The NCT Centre will also collect the VRT charge (and other tax liabilities) on behalf of Revenue. You can pay this charge either by

- Bank Draft (made payable to Applus Car Testing Service Ltd)
- Cash (Up to a limit of €200)
- Laser Card (Up to a limit of €1,500)
- Credit Card (This method of payment incurs a 1.5% surcharge)

http://www.ncts.ie/vrt.html

Would the reason they don't accept large cash amounts possibly be to deter robbery or money laundering?

I think it would be a good idea for anyone who has to vrt a vehicle to read the website to see what documentation etc is required and familiarise themselves with the procedure so they do not incur additional costs.

Voodoomelon

Ah they must have changed it, the VROs wouldn't take cards!

€75 fee to pay €5000 VRT with a card, bloody hell!

Esel

Voodoomelon wrote: »

Ah they must have changed it, the VROs wouldn't take cards!

VRO always took Laser up to €1500.

ianobrien

I still reckon that thay can not refuse to take cash. It is the legal tender and if not accepted as payment of a debt, the debt is considered paid.

I understand that they probably have security concerns, but legal tender is legal tender......

bazz26

The limit on the laser card is set by the issuing bank not the VRO afaik. Pay for something else with your laser card and you will find the same limitation.

The reason they want you to pay by postal order or bank draft so that there is some sort of paper trail and to deter money laundering. The VRO are a division of Revenue at the end of the day.

dahamsta

Thanks for gathering the info lads! I'd love to see the "trade guides, supplier catalogues and other relevant source material". I didn't see a library the last time I got an NCT. I'd guess the extras provision has the potential to kick prestige buyers in particular in the ass. Can you imagine the level of complication cars from the BMW Individual and equivalent programs could cause?!

Voodoomelon

esel wrote: »

VRO always took Laser up to €1500.

I see, it was still ridiculously awkward, I would guess a lot of VRT paid far exceeded €1500.

kildare.17hmr

dahamsta wrote: »

What docs are they looking for about the buyer? How does that impact on the VRT?

Also, does anyone have ANY references for this stuff? Not that I don't love all the info like, but I'd like to see the details from an official source.

Well usually (on the old system) when a dealer is registering a car for a customer we use our TAN number, so when booking it in i was told no tan nos accepted anymore! they neeed customers pps no and proof of address ie bill/statment. grand i bring everything im told to bring and then while there im told i need a letter of authorisation from the customer to register car in his name. asked if that was all and she said yes, so i went and got it, rebooked for another day bring everything back and then she says they need a letter of authorisation from revenue as the customer is disabled. everything has now been dropped in and i have to wait for them to get back to me again!

Revenue rang today about the Audi A4, quoted me a price of €6300 for VRT, revenue site says €5892 for the exact model i have. I asked the girl on the phone to check the price again as the "extras" iv been obviously charged for are standard on the SE model and she got the same price as me so said she has to call head office again and querey it.

Its just an almighty pain in the h0le at this stage, only in ireland will they take a system that works fine and fcuk it right up

dahamsta

Didn't click with me you were a dealer until afterwards, sorry about that.

Completely sympathise with you, I'd love to bring an E38 740i over from the UK or NI but I'm really concerned about getting caught out.

kildare.17hmr

dahamsta wrote: »

Didn't click with me you were a dealer until afterwards, sorry about that.

Completely sympathise with you, I'd love to bring an E38 740i over from the UK or NI but I'm really concerned about getting caught out.

You should be ok with that once the emissions are verified on the v5, they wont hit you for extras as the extras is only really up to 4 years old!

dahamsta

5 year apparently, but given the performance I've seen so far, I wouldn't be at all surprised if they tried it on anyway. And I'm not sure I blame them, the movement of the task to the NCT centres, while probably a good decision in general, seems to have been done with absolutely no testing or QC whatsoever.

While we're at it, how accurate /are/ the VRT calculator estimates, in general? It seems very variable, I've run about 8 E38s through it, of relatively similar spec, and the estimates can come in anywhere between 1k and 3k. Just yesterday I checked out 2 740i's from the same year, one was just over 2k, the other just over 3.

Voodoomelon

I was charged exactly the same as what the website said for my E38 2 years ago, so that was certainly accurate.

dahamsta

If it's accurate, great; I've just been told by several people it's a work of fiction.

Voodoomelon

along with the OMSP...

kildare.17hmr

Voodoomelon wrote: »

I was charged exactly the same as what the website said for my E38 2 years ago, so that was certainly accurate.

Iv never been charged anything but the price quoted off the revenue calculator! its sometimes(or mostly as iv found to be the case in recent yrs!) their open market selling price that is inaccurate

dahamsta

Anyone ever had a go off challenging the OMSP?

Owen

You can't AFAIK, you have to pay the VRT, then appeal it afterwards - you can provide documentation/ads from similar cars for sale, and then challenge the OMSP/VRT. By all accounts people are very successful, a lot of the cases are upheld.

kildare.17hmr

dahamsta wrote: »

Anyone ever had a go off challenging the OMSP?

Last year with a 2005 Hyundai Trajet, paid over 5k in vrt, half the price of the car!! took about 3 months but got a refund, cant remember how much of the top of my head

dahamsta

I'm learning loads today!

Esel

dahamsta wrote: »

Anyone ever had a go off challenging the OMSP?

Wisdom from this forum is that 90% of appeals are successful (i.e. amount of VRT is reduced and refund is given).

Voodoomelon

When I bought my car a few years back, the average selling price on Carzone was €15-€18k. OMSP?

€6k!

kildare.17hmr

Voodoomelon wrote: »

When I bought my car a few years back, the average selling price on Carzone was €15-€18k. OMSP?

€6k!

that my friend was a sweet deal for you:D

Voodoomelon

Not if i'm a crash!

Cond0r

I just brought in a car last weekend from the UK and started properly looking at these new guidelines this morning.

With the old system, if you didn't have the V5 cert, you could show up at the VRT office and tell them this and they would give you a letter stating that you had showed up so that the Gardai wouldn't impound the car at a checkpoint, and you'd have more time to come back to them.

In this horrible new convoluted system, there's no room for such a situation. If you don't have the whole V5 form, you can't import the car. Any sane seller in the UK will not hand over the whole form to you, but rather will want to send it to the DVLA to have the car signed over to you (just as it would be here with your registration document).

I phoned up the VRT information line this morning (which thankfully still goes to the VRT department in the revenue, and not the poor uninformed folks in the NCT centres) and the chap I spoke to had to check and double check about the situation, and then apologised that there was no way around it.

So, in my situation I had to quickly phone the dealer in the UK that I bought the car from and plead with him to post me the V5 form so that I can re-register the car to meet the 30-day deadline. What's more, the NCT booking site only lets you book appointments up to ~3 weeks in advance, which makes it difficult to even utilise the 30-day deadline.

I'm going to send a complaint to the Revenue about this situation, but I hold out little hope of anything coming from that.

RAGE.

Tragedy

Cond0r wrote: »

In this horrible new convoluted system, there's no room for such a situation. If you don't have the whole V5 form, you can't import the car. Any sane seller in the UK will not hand over the whole form to you, but rather will want to send it to the DVLA to have the car signed over to you (just as it would be here with your registration document).

It's DVLA guidelines to give a new owner who is from abroad and immediately exporting the car the whole V5. Your fault for not researching it and getting the V5 off the seller.

Cond0r

Tragedy wrote: »

It's DVLA guidelines to give a new owner who is from abroad and immediately exporting the car the whole V5. Your fault for not researching it and getting the V5 off the seller.

Can you link me to these guidelines, please?

Esel

Cond0r wrote: »

Can you link me to these guidelines, please?

See page 8 of http://www.direct.gov.uk/prod_consum_dg/groups/dg_digitalassets/@dg/@en/@motor/documents/digitalasset/dg_065264.pdf

Edit: Note that the section on page 8 headed '4 Telling us about a permanent export' does not apply - it only applies where the existing UK owner is taking the vehicle abroad.

Cond0r

esel wrote: »

See page 8 of http://www.direct.gov.uk/prod_consum_dg/groups/dg_digitalassets/@dg/@en/@motor/documents/digitalasset/dg_065264.pdf

Edit: Note that the section on page 8 headed '4 Telling us about a permanent export' does not apply - it only applies where the existing UK owner is taking the vehicle abroad.

Well, god damn.

Alright, at least I'll know for the next time. FWIW, I did it twice previously in the other way; waiting for the V5C to come back in my name and then importing it.

Cheers!

Owen

As Tragedy at the rest have pointed out, the owner keeps a tiny 2 inch slip of the V5 which he sends to the DVLA, the rest you keep.

Cond0r

PaintDoctor wrote: »

As Tragedy at the rest have pointed out, the owner keeps a tiny 2 inch slip of the V5 which he sends to the DVLA, the rest you keep.

According to the document esel linked to, they don't even have to do that. The seller needs to send a signed letter with the reg + vehicle model to the DVLA, who will then confirm that they're no longer responsible for the vehicle.

I think I'll be printing out that document to show the seller the next time.

corktina

PaintDoctor wrote: »

As Tragedy at the rest have pointed out, the owner keeps a tiny 2 inch slip of the V5 which he sends to the DVLA, the rest you keep.

they fill in the details but hand the whole document to the buyer.

darragh o meara

In my opinion this whole debacle is clearly designed to make it as difficult as possible to import a car from the UK or anywhere for that matter!! It all seems to favour the motor industry as people wont be bothered with all the hassle of getting forms etc and just buy from a local dealer!!

Does this test at the NCT centre actually get you an NCT cert too if it passes??

The sooner the VRT is abolished the better!!

kildare.17hmr

darragh o meara wrote: »

In my opinion this whole debacle is clearly designed to make it as difficult as possible to import a car from the UK or anywhere for that matter!! It all seems to favour the motor industry as people wont be bothered with all the hassle of getting forms etc and just buy from a local dealer!!

Does this test at the NCT centre actually get you an NCT cert too if it passes??

The sooner the VRT is abolished the better!!

Its the complete oppisate really, its to generate more revenue for the state, they now have less staff working on VRT and instead have Applus(NCT) staff doing checks and all paperwork ect and for every car that is registered Applus get the €32 fee, so they are saving alot of mony on vrt by redeploying VRO staff elswhere in revenue and having all the front office work and customer service done by Applus..

It is not an NCT test you do, it is just a visual inspection for vrt. NCT test must be done after registration if its due