Crossfit- is it counterproductive for athletes?

Banks

Just seen this vid on youtube
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztw_QLCgyW4&feature=player_embedded#!

Jonathon Chaimberg (one of the top MMA S&C coaches) speaks about how general aerobic work and Crossfit is counter productive for athletes. Does crossfit make you a jack of all but a master of none??:D

Anyone got views on this?? I'm sure the crossfitters out there will have something to say!

Hanley

Banks wrote: »

Just seen this vid on youtube
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztw_QLCgyW4&feature=player_embedded#!

Jonathon Chaimberg (one of the top MMA S&C coaches) speaks about how general aerobic work and Crossfit is counter productive for athletes. Does crossfit make you a jack of all but a master of none??:D

Anyone got views on this?? I'm sure the crossfitters out there will have something to say!

I can't watch the vid at the moment, but if the question is, "is increased GPP bad?" then no, Crossfit isn't bad for athletes.

If the question is "is time spent doing Crossfit being done at the expense of sports specific conditioning?" - then yes, it probably is bad for athletes.

I guess the answer is, it depends.

mushykeogh

yes.

Banks

Nice mushy, short and sweet!!

Barry.Oglesby

On the other hand, how annoying is that video?

d'Oracle

Hanley wrote: »

I can't watch the vid at the moment, but if the question is, "is increased GPP bad?" then no, Crossfit isn't bad for athletes.

If the question is "is time spent doing Crossfit being done at the expense of sports specific conditioning?" - then yes, it probably is bad for athletes.

I guess the answer is, it depends.

I wouldn't bother.
Its an absolute non-event.

He spends about 10 seconds on CrossFit, it doesn't really extend any further than "its counterproductive"

I'm surprised that someone even started a conversation about it.

Colm_OReilly

Agree with Hanley, Barry, and d'Oracle.

Barry.Oglesby

I think the board-short-wallet-wearing-chain-high fiving-2kg bumper plate snatching-chalkinguptoyouroxters-clenbuterol taking-Go team USA version of Crossfit is bad for everyone. I think the Crossfit template is bad for athletes in general. But there's nothing to say that some of the Crossfit-esque training available is bad for athletes as long as it's well supervised and coached.

But for me the real damage has been done to Crossfit by itself. It's too popular with no standards which aggregates the good people down and the bad people up and it's too hard to tell the difference. I would judge each Crossfit gym on it's own merits but not everyone will. Unfortunately, if you are an affiliate, you've probably made the rod for your own back when criticism comes around like in the above video.

d'Oracle

Barry.Oglesby wrote: »

I think the board-short-wallet-wearing-chain-high fiving-2kg bumper plate snatching-chalkinguptoyouroxters-clenbuterol taking-Go team USA version of Crossfit is bad for everyone. I think the Crossfit template is bad for athletes in general. But there's nothing to say that some of the Crossfit-esque training available is bad for athletes as long as it's well supervised and coached.

But for me the real damage has been done to Crossfit by itself. It's too popular with no standards which aggregates the good people down and the bad people up and it's too hard to tell the difference. I would judge each Crossfit gym on it's own merits but not everyone will. Unfortunately, if you are an affiliate, you've probably made the rod for your own back when criticism comes around like in the above video.

What criticism?
Surely you should judge EVERY Gym on its own merits?

Most people don't know what crossfit is, and if you write an affiliate off because of some half-baked crap that some uppity S&C guy says on the internet.....its not exactly a display of excellent judgement is it.

Also, while the whole US CrossFit culture thing is silly and that, what harm does it do? I mean, why is it that so many people put so much energy into bashing crossfit?
It doesn't make people any better at anything.

SanoVitae

Barry.Oglesby wrote: »

But for me the real damage has been done to Crossfit by itself. It's too popular with no standards which aggregates the good people down and the bad people up and it's too hard to tell the difference. I would judge each Crossfit gym on it's own merits but not everyone will.

Great point Barry. I love the Crossfit concept, but they really don't help themselves in many ways. I'm actually much more impressed by some of their Dublin affiliates than I am of the main people who started Crossfit itself!

Barry.Oglesby

d'Oracle wrote: »

What criticism?

Oh I dunno... all of it

Surely you should judge EVERY Gym on its own merits?

Barry Oglesby wrote:

I would judge each Crossfit gym on it's own merits

Most people don't know what crossfit is, and if you write an affiliate off because of some half-baked crap that some uppity S&C guy says on the internet.....its not exactly a display of excellent judgement is it.

No true it's not. But then neither is just assuming a gym will be good because it's a part of a chain. My point is that becoming a part of a franchise links you to that franchise no matter what you do, for better or for worse. So guys in the internet like Evan-Esch can complain and tell us how different they are to the other CF gyms all they want but ultimately they choose to be a part of the organisation and hitching yourself to that wagon carries good and bad luggage. If I opened a pizza hut I would expect that some people who didn't like pizza would avoid me and others who did would flock to me, even if I did modify the menu slightly to appease pasta lovers.

Also, while the whole US CrossFit culture thing is silly and that, what harm does it do? I mean, why is it that so many people put so much energy into bashing crossfit?
It doesn't make people any better at anything.

Once again I must stress that I am a friend of CF Ireland and Colm in particular and he and I have regular contact, so keep in mind that I speak generally about Crossfit. CF ireland do good work and people should go train there.

But to address your point; crossfit has made a rod for it's own back. It continually makes claims to elitism that have no foundation. It ignores criticism or worse aggressively rewrites it's own history (see the big strength only debate). Any genuine critic is turned into a pariah, particularly if they are ex-crossfitters, or cited as "just specialists" if they're an elite trainee/coach in another sport that does what CF does only better. ie. weightlifting, endurance athletes etc. There's an Islamic saying "as above, so below". That same attitude from the clique who run the show filters down into the regular members and people who run affiliates.

So that's why I think there's so much emnity. The thing is, Crossfit is sooooo much better than probably 90% of what's available to the public in general. If the people involved dropped the attitude, admitted their mistakes and gave credit where credit was due to some of the people who help inform their training probably most of not all of the criticism would die down.

Khannie

When I didn't really know how to do my own strength and conditioning work beyond hitting pads I used to do crossfit. I stuck with it. Did what I was supposed to do on the days I was supposed to do it (though I did shift around prescribed rest days to suit my Thai training schedule). I found myself very strong and very fit in the ring.

Is crossfit the ultimate athletes tool? No. Is it very good if done properly? I believe so.

Banks

I couldn't agree more with you Barry, CF is better than 90% of other gyms out there, but if ur an elite athlete or a top amateur in most sports I think the crossfit method could be counter productive to performance!

Think I'll just stay wit Informed!!!!;)

Hanley

Banks wrote: »

I couldn't agree more with you Barry, CF is better than 90% of other gyms out there, but if ur an elite athlete or a top amateur in most sports I think the crossfit method could be counter productive to performance!
Think I'll just stay wit Informed!!!!;)

That's not exactly a surprise now is it?!

d'Oracle

Barry.Oglesby wrote: »

So that's why I think there's so much emnity. The thing is, Crossfit is sooooo much better than probably 90% of what's available to the public in general. If the people involved dropped the attitude, admitted their mistakes and gave credit where credit was due to some of the people who help inform their training probably most of not all of the criticism would die down.

This is where I'd like to see a distinction made between CrossFit inc. and people doing Crossfit.

I feel that people, (and not necessarily yourself), bash CrossFit cos of what Glassman and his Gang of sycophants get up to on the internet and this just opens people up to just bash CrossFit for all sorts of reasons.

I'm not sure that I even understand why Crossfit can't be adapted to be effective let alone productive for an sport athlete, given the right considerations.

At the end of the day its just a mix of Strength, Metaconditioning, muscular endurance & cardiovascular training.

Zamboni

Hanley wrote: »

That's not exactly a surprise now is it?!

I'm sure he'll be back to qualify and support his opinion with evidence...

Hanley

Zamboni wrote: »

I'm sure he'll be back to qualify and support his opinion with evidence...

Probably from the NCSA handbook

The Davestator

Barry.Oglesby wrote: »

I think the board-short-wallet-wearing-chain-high fiving-2kg bumper plate snatching-chalkinguptoyouroxters-clenbuterol taking-Go team USA version of Crossfit is bad for everyone. I think the Crossfit template is bad for athletes in general. But there's nothing to say that some of the Crossfit-esque training available is bad for athletes as long as it's well supervised and coached.

But for me the real damage has been done to Crossfit by itself. It's too popular with no standards which aggregates the good people down and the bad people up and it's too hard to tell the difference. I would judge each Crossfit gym on it's own merits but not everyone will. Unfortunately, if you are an affiliate, you've probably made the rod for your own back when criticism comes around like in the above video.

What a sentence!:D

Barry.Oglesby

d'Oracle wrote: »

At the end of the day its just a mix of Strength, Metaconditioning, muscular endurance & cardiovascular training.

Yes, poorly. Fine for randomers and housewives but for athletes just not good enough.

As an example, I have 7 guys on my fight team. All 7 train differently. To train them all the same would be madness. One guy does primarily Strength work as with S1 from the iPrograms. One does mostly bodyweight. One does more power work than the others. Good coaching is managing these things and not just doling out days on a website. If you're an athlete and you're relying on a website and some cookie cutter programme then you need a new coach.

Banks

Specificity to sport is what CF lacks....

And Hanley the NSCA handbook would be a good place for crossfitters to learn from, instead of following programmes/metcons made up by joe bloggs!!

d'Oracle

Banks wrote: »

Specificity to sport is what CF lacks....

And Hanley the NSCA handbook would be a good place for crossfitters to learn from, instead of following programmes/metcons made up by joe bloggs!!

Joe Bloggs!!
Indeed!!

Maybe you should learn a bit about CrossFit!! Before you start knocking it!!!
Maybe Check out the Journal!! or talk to one of the coaches who set the Workouts!!!

One Even posts on here!!!!

Or look up Crossfit Football!!

Molly

Banks wrote: »

Specificity to sport is what CF lacks....

Is crossfit not it's own sport now?

I feel that people, (and not necessarily yourself), bash CrossFit cos of what Glassman and his Gang of sycophants get up to on the internet and this just opens people up to just bash CrossFit for all sorts of reasons.

I 100% agree with this statement. I went and tried out one affiliate and 40 minutes of the hour introduction class was spent explaining a whole load of crap to me about glassman etc. This was a little off putting ( as well as the price or $300 a month). Went to another affiliate and it's totally different. There's no real Glassman is god people there and it's just a lot of fun (as well as being a whole lot cheaper )

Personally I've found crossfit to be beneficial to my other sporting activities.

d'Oracle

Barry.Oglesby wrote: »

Yes, poorly. Fine for randomers and housewives but for athletes just not good enough.

As an example, I have 7 guys on my fight team. All 7 train differently. To train them all the same would be madness. One guy does primarily Strength work as with S1 from the iPrograms. One does mostly bodyweight. One does more power work than the others. Good coaching is managing these things and not just doling out days on a website. If you're an athlete and you're relying on a website and some cookie cutter programme then you need a new coach.

It would strike me that sport teams across the world will train in a different environment to the one you describe.
And far be it from me to tell you about sports conditioning, but to my mind conditioning work for a team 25-30 would be slightly easier applied through a more generalised training programme, with movement selection & time frames tailored to the sport.

So say you take a (hypothetical) training period where you guys might take S1, C1, S2, R1, C2. (for the sake of arguement)

Would it not be equally as valid to have a pair each of Strength dominant workouts (str), conditioning workouts (Met) and a muscular endurance workout (ME) in a Str, Met, Str, ME, Met.
Make the Met workouts timed complexes, the ME higher rep work.

I understand that all athletes have stuff to work on specifically, but you guys apply off shelf programmes to your athletes. I don't see how it can be that hugely different.

But maybe I don't get it cos I'm a "randomer".

The Shane

What is Crossfit?

If you take it as simply a 3 on 1 off exercise prescription that religiously sticks to the dictates of an aging embittered alcoholic then I can see why it gets a lot of criticism. It has attracted a lot of nuthuggers too, but then again so does everything that gets in any way popular. I wan't to slam everyone I see in a pair of Sprawl shorts.

Crossfit is primarily aimed at broad reaching fitness and generally being better than you were 6 months ago. Now in many circumstances even athletes could benefit from a little more generality and the re-introduction of things that might have become neglected in favour of focused sports specific training. That in itself is a breakdown in the role of a coach but it happens, a big part of Crossfit's success was seeing that and filling that gap.

Crossfit has within it strength focused athletes, endurance focused athletes and sports people from across the spectrum. It all started as a daily exercise prescription for a small realtively homogenous group on a website. This has grown and the diversity of those viewing the website has also grown too making it impossible to prescribe a workout for every need. Within, Crossfit have a lot of excellent coaches that adapt the tools and knowledge to individual needs, but it would be tiresome to post everyone's workout. In the same way that I assume that Barry has athletes that deviate slightly from their iprograms but doesn't include every adaptation. Unless of course he has hit on the elixir of health.

Crossfit, the ideology, will make you better to a point, the further your needs seperate from general physical preparedness then the less useful it will be.

Crossfit, the gym/people, is a reservoir of coaching experience and knowledge, it will where appropriate exhaust linear progression and program the correct exercises for you. For most starting it it is sufficient to do the classes and get generally better. Athletes take more work.

Disagreements among the management and dissenting gyms aside, individuals leave when their individual needs are no longer being met given the constraints of the class based system in place. This wil be true of any business or service provider. Or of course when some douche is in charge people leave for that reason but that's hardly a new business phenomenon.

Really this kind of argument amazes me.

Shane, The

(Longer post than I intended. I apologise to anyone who expected more of me and read the entire thing to no avail.)

BobbyOLeary

It would strike me that sport teams across the world will train in a different environment to the one you describe.

Define sports team? What level are you talking about here? I would be very surprised if a premiership football team had all their guys doing the exact same S&C work. My local Hurling team? They're probably doing all the same stuff.

I understand that all athletes have stuff to work on specifically, but you guys apply off shelf programmes to your athletes.

Again I'm not sure what defines off the shelf? I'm going to presume you mean S1, S2 and the like? In that case it's not true. People are on all sorts of programs at IP. Unless you train in IP, which I'm pretty sure you don't, I'm confused as to how you know that Will applies "off the shelf" programmes?

I think the problem here is the use of the word "Athlete". I'm not an athlete, you're not an athlete, the majority of people on boards aren't athletes. We're people who like to train. Athletes are guys like David Gillick (I'm just using him as an example so noone jump in with arguments about what sport he partakes in).

Using the CrossFit.com daily WOD will hamper David Gillick's performance. It will hamper the performance of other athletes. It will not however harm the performance of the housewife or student.

And to open another can of worms, what the hell is CrossFit done well? What defines you as doing crossfit? Looking at the WOD from CrossFit.ie it has changed a ton since I was going there. It's no longer just a turn up and do a WOD. They've got more individualised training going on coupled with a group effort WOD at the end. A positive change in my eyes. Are they still doing CrossFit? They've got crossfit.ie written on the wall and they do Fran from time to time but to me it looks like they're doing Strength work followed by a conditioning block that changes from day to day. Is that what defines CrossFit? Or do we have to be doing stuff across broad time and modal domains for it to be CrossFit?

As a postscript, due to my hungoveredness it's taken me longer than usual to write this so I'm sure someone has made a better reply in the mean time.

d'Oracle

Lets get real here, Premiership football teams are a bit apart from the scope of the discussion.

And if this is gonna turn into a pissing match, or some sort of IP vs Crossfit, (which Bobby is what it looks like you are doing) I am right out.

Suffice to say this.
I can "do" IProgramme if I want to.
The information is available.
A programme is put on the internet shelf (which is very nice and generous of the lads) for folks to do.

Banks

Lets get real here, Premiership football teams are a bit apart from the scope of the discussion(d'Oracle, 2010).

What a ridiculous comment, I started the tread and clearly stated was crossfit counterproductive for ATHLETES.

Hanley

Banks wrote: »

Specificity to sport is what CF lacks....

And Hanley the NSCA handbook would be a good place for crossfitters to learn from, instead of following programmes/metcons made up by joe bloggs!!

Oh wow.... good one. A general program lacks specificity. Brilliant!! Problem solved.

I'd hazard a guess and say that for the large majority of weekend warriors who's only exposure to sports conditioning is sprints and laps, CF would definitely be of benefit, at least in the off season. Obviously preseason the demands and capabilities of whatever sport need to be trained. And then something else adapted for in season maintenance.

If you're an elite athlete, then chances are you aren't going to be looking to crossfit or boards for advice on how to train for your sport anyway so it's a moot point.

It seems like you just want to bash Crossfit and are using an area for which it was never meant to excel in as that vehicle.

As for the quality of the coaches, you might want to read up on some of the guys affiliated to Crossfit because you're only making yourself look bad now.

Magic Eight Ball

Banks wrote: »

the NSCA handbook would be a good place for crossfitters to learn from, instead of following programmes/metcons made up by joe bloggs!!

Maybe it's just my perception of your posts, but it seems like your trying to stir up a anti crossfit argument for the sake of it.
What's the matter, Cindy make you her bitch or something?

Magic Eight Ball

Hanley wrote: »

It seems like you just want to bash Crossfit and are using an area for which it was never meant to excel in as that vehicle.

Ah, You beat me to it.

Banks

I think everyone is missing the point of why I posted this tread...... I didn't post this tread to bash crossfit, Iwanted to know what other coaches thought of crossfit regarding using it for their athletes.

Hanley- As for the quality of the coaches, you might want to read up on some of the guys affiliated to Crossfit because you're only making yourself look bad now.

I know what qualification the CFI coaches hold! And the PFCS course that one of them is doing. No disrespect to either coaches.

ray jay

Banks wrote: »

I think everyone is missing the point of why I posted this tread...... I didn't post this tread to bash crossfit, Iwanted to know what other coaches thought of crossfit regarding using it for their athletes.

you seem to have your answer. At the level you're talking about, coaches don't use crossfit to train their athletes. Crossfit isn't a training program for professional athletes, so this shouldn't be very surprising

BobbyOLeary

d'Oracle wrote: »

Lets get real here, Premiership football teams are a bit apart from the scope of the discussion.

In a discussion about athletes? Why pray tell is that?

And if this is gonna turn into a pissing match, or some sort of IP vs Crossfit, (which Bobby is what it looks like you are doing) I am right out.

I'm not really sure where this came from? It's funny, before I had a couple of people going on that I hyped CrossFit too much, now it's the opposite? You're avoiding my genuine question - what defines a gym as "doing CrossFit"? And what defines them as "doing it well"?

Suffice to say this.
I can "do" IProgramme if I want to.
The information is available.
A programme is put on the internet shelf (which is very nice and generous of the lads) for folks to do.

True, you can. The iPrograms are available, and to be honest, they don't need to be. They're the same every month anyway. This doesn't change anything however. A large amount of people at IP train other programs more suited to their needs. Not the cookie cutter approach of CrossFit.com and some affiliates. CrossFit.ie, or CFI, or whatever you want to call them don't have a cookie cutter approach either. Admittedly I'm not training there anymore due to personal circumstance but from what I hear from people who do is that they have a much more individualised service than before. To tie back to your earlier comment about the pissing match, I'm not sure how me complimenting the lads is starting one?

BobbyOLeary

ray jay wrote: »

Crossfit isn't a training program for professional athletes, so this shouldn't be very surprising

It's not but the "Fittest on Earth" claim riles people up understandably.

d'Oracle

BobbyOLeary wrote: »

I'm not really sure where this came from? It's funny, before I had a couple of people going on that I hyped CrossFit too much, now it's the opposite? You're avoiding my genuine question - what defines a gym as "doing CrossFit"? And what defines them as "doing it well"?
?

I never said anything about you hyping anything.
And I'm not getting into this with you.

Banks

ray jay wrote: »

you seem to have your answer. At the level you're talking about, coaches don't use crossfit to train their athletes. Crossfit isn't a training program for professional athletes, so this shouldn't be very surprising

As Bobby mentioned earlier Crossfits slogan for their 2010 games was fittest on earth!!! Surely u'd have to be an athlete to claim ur the fittest on earth?? and i'm sure the 2010 CF winner states he's an athlete??

d'Oracle

Banks wrote: »

As Bobby mentioned earlier Crossfits slogan for their 2010 games was fittest on earth!!! Surely u'd have to be an athlete to claim ur the fittest on earth?? and i'm sure the 2010 CF winner states he's an athlete??

Are you intentionally ignoring the word Professional in Ray Jay's post?

Anyway this is getting to be silly semantics.



Actually, now that I think of it, I am as responsible as anyone for that.

token

Ah yes I was waiting for this thread to kick off when I came across it this morning only a few posts in *grabs more popcorn* :pac:

Edwardius

Banks wrote: »

And the PFCS course that one of them is doing. No disrespect to either coaches.

You know more about this than they do pal. What are saturday's lotto numbers?

BobbyOLeary

d'Oracle wrote: »

I never said anything about you hyping anything.
And I'm not getting into this with you.

Fair enough. Nice how you'll accuse me of something and then not answer me when I challenge you on it. If you don't want to get into an argument with me about something fine, but it's a bit childish to shoot an accusation out and then say you don't want to discuss it.

Anyway, this is off-topic.

Weird Bearded Guy wrote:

What are saturday's lotto numbers?

7. Maybe 19 too.

Hanley

ray jay wrote: »

you seem to have your answer. At the level you're talking about, coaches don't use crossfit to train their athletes. Crossfit isn't a training program for professional athletes, so this shouldn't be very surprising

This.

Banks wrote: »

I think everyone is missing the point of why I posted this tread...... I didn't post this tread to bash crossfit, Iwanted to know what other coaches thought of crossfit regarding using it for their athletes.

Hanley- As for the quality of the coaches, you might want to read up on some of the guys affiliated to Crossfit because you're only making yourself look bad now.

I know what qualification the CFI coaches hold! And the PFCS course that one of them is doing. No disrespect to either coaches.

Other coaches? Are you a coach? What do you coach?

I've very much aware of who's affiliated to Crossfit, and who has been in the past. You'll get good and bad everywhere. But the likes of Burgener, Everett, Simmons et al speak to the quality of some of the coaches in their stable. Not to mention their nutrition guys and guys like K-Starr.

BobbyOLeary wrote: »

It's not but the "Fittest on Earth" claim riles people up understandably.

You know what really grinds me gears...

d'Oracle

BobbyOLeary wrote: »

Fair enough. Nice how you'll accuse me of something and then not answer me when I challenge you on it. If you don't want to get into an argument with me about something fine, but it's a bit childish to shoot an accusation out and then say you don't want to discuss it.

Look, you went on the defensive about IP.
Nobody needed to defend IP, no-one was attacking IP.

I was putting a point to Barry. One that I have pretty much figured out now anyway. Without your input.

If I hurt your feelings I'm sorry.

BobbyOLeary

d'Oracle wrote: »

Look, you went on the defensive about IP.
Nobody needed to defend IP, no-one was attacking IP.

You said something that wasn't true about IP in a discussion that interested me.

The discussion still interests me if we can move on.

d-gal

Sort of skipped over the few pages but here is my 2cents

Crossfit is a great tool for the general public, it's a great brand name and has been well published. It has been blown out of the water a bit with people thinking that if I do then 10 squats, 10 press-ups and 10 pull ups for 5 rounds for time that I am a crossfitter. They didn't invent it they simply put their brand beside it.
Crossfit for athletes is a waste of a program, that's from my own coaching perspective. It's great to have conditioning days which is pretty much what Crossfit is standard for but your power/strength/prehab specification days are usually what benefit your athlete the most from their S&C program.

TommyKnocker

If you would all kindly follow the yellow brick road it will lead you back to the topic of the thread and away from the spat that has developed over the last page and a half

M

Barry.Oglesby

d'Oracle wrote: »

But maybe I don't get it cos I'm a "randomer".

on the nosey!

Barry.Oglesby

B-Builder wrote: »

If you would all kindly follow the yellow brick road it will lead you back to the topic of the thread and away from the CFI Vs IP spat that has developed over the last page and a half

M

None of which has been commented on by IP or CFI .

sharky86

So basically.... if your the normal joe bloggs working away or signing away what ever the case may be these days then crossfit is good for you! as in its better than sitting on a couch eating big mac's. It will get you to a funtional level of fitness plus some.

However if you are aiming to for a shot at a slightly aged Ken Shamrock inside a weird shaped cage, or rowing in the world championships etc then you mind want to make your training a bit more specific to your sport.

Oh and the some ramdom people in some ramdom CF gyms think the upper decks of the hierarchy are the 2nd coming.

conor678

I like the concept of cross fit but I am only an amateur athlete who enjoys competing in sports. For this I find a basic cross fit method work out easy to do by myself and an easy regime to adhere to.
Saying that I don't go around wearing board shorts throwing plastic weights around claiming that CF is the 2nd coming.
For basic people I find it a good and easy work out regime to easily complete and rejuvenate at will.

Saying that I make adequate changes to my fitness regime to suit my ever changing goals which is important for any type of fitness regime

d'Oracle

Barry.Oglesby wrote: »

on the nosey!

No need.
I figured it out all by myself.

The answer is, because there would be no point.
It would be an exercise in pointless semantics.

Pretty good for one of the underclass, wouldn't you say?

SanoVitae

Hanley wrote: »

I've very much aware of who's affiliated to Crossfit, and who has been in the past. You'll get good and bad everywhere. But the likes of Burgener, Everett, Simmons et al speak to the quality of some of the coaches in their stable. Not to mention their nutrition guys and guys like K-Starr.

When did Richard Simmons switch to Crossfit?! :eek:















:P