NCT VLR Tint rule should be changed

bbability

NCT - VLR Tint Rule should be changed
Brought the car for the NCT today and it failed on the front windows. Funny thing was I watched the guy test the car and he never checked the VLR of the windows. He wasn't even able to tell me what VLR was???

Anyway I've had enough of this crap. I just want to see if anyone else feels the same way about this stupid test. I'm all for banning fully blacked out windows but to not even be allowed to have a light tint is rediculous

I have my windows tinted (lightly btw) for a number of reasons and I'm not removing the tint for Gay Byrne and his posse of muppets.

I'm not a boy racer, I look after my car so is it worth the fight or are we slowly turning into a communist country?
*

Senna

Your not going to have much support. I agree with the new regulations, as i see no reason what so ever to have tints on front windows.
Can you tell us your reason?

Cookie_Monster

so it should just be enforced and properly tested rather than changed by the sounds of that...

_Kaiser_

Senna wrote: »

Your not going to have much support. I agree with the new regulations, as i see no reason what so ever to have tints on front windows.
Can you tell us your reason?

Well in my case I had the car tinted (the lighter 33/66 version all round) because I was often carrying goods for work (computer equipment) but also because only getting half the car done looks stupid imo

daRobot

bbability wrote: »

I'm not removing the tint for Gay Byrne and his posse of muppets.

You'll have to if you want a valid NCT unfortunately.

I personally have no issue with 35% tints, and had them on my old car, but Ireland introducing this is only bringing us in line with the rest of Europe. Against the law in UK, Spain etc

You can always get them taken off for the test and put back on again, but I don't know how that would leave you from an insurances standpoint/ legal situation.

bbability

But hang on a second guys. If I buy a brand new car in the morning and have it tinted back and front am I covered until 2014? It's another wishy washy check.
Will a Gard ask you if your windows are below 65% VLR? I think not when they probably don't even know if it's a law or not.

As I said earlier I don't agree with blacked out windows in the front of any vehicle but surely the percentage could be changed?

CiniO

Guys, calm down.
Seems that everyone is against the OP.

That's what NCT manual says

Glass in front side windows has a visible light
transmission level of less than 65%.

He claims, that he have them lightly tinted, and that a guy on the test never checked what was the visible light transmission level.
Let's do it all by the law.
It the law allows him to have 65%, then let's enforce it.
It'f what he says is really true, and his windows are tinted within the limit, then I don't understand why would his car fail NCT.

daRobot

Problem is with the new law is that any tint other than a 70% film will fail.

If I put my old ST with 35% on the front through an NCT with the meter test, it would fail badly. It seems though that some testers just do a visual check on what they deem dark or not, but anyone who passed with any front tint is lucky.

Cops would be well within their rights to check your car, and get you to remove them, but I doubt at 35% they'd bother. 5% limo on a pikey mobile might be a different story.

bbability

But in reality is it the law or just a NCT quango requirement. Are you telling me that a Gard will be carrying a vlr meter in the back of the panda?

I'll think I'm going to follow this up with nct and rsa today.

Cookie_Monster

Do the 35%s fail as they are doing it indoors where the lighting conditions are diffuse and poorer than natural light I wonder?

old_aussie

CiniO wrote: »

Guys, calm down.
Seems that everyone is against the OP.

It the law allows him to have 65%, then let's enforce it.

65% of what?

Cookie_Monster

old_aussie wrote: »

65% of what?

daylight coming through the windows with the tint on

Berty

What's going on here?

The OP said the guy didn't test it and couldn't tell him the VLC.

Drive back to the NCT Centre and ask for the Depot Manager and say you want it tested for free NOW and keep your beady eyes on them when they are doing it.

If you fail then you fail and if you pass then this thread is over.

gurramok

Senna wrote: »

Your not going to have much support. I agree with the new regulations, as i see no reason what so ever to have tints on front windows.
Can you tell us your reason?

The sun. (and yes we do get sunny weather )

The OP has a good legal standing. Manual says 65%, the tester just looked at the window and used visual inspection which is wrong.

All it takes is someone who gets this to court to make them test the windows properly using real equipment and not rely on the human eye alone.

mullingar

There is nothing directly in the "road traffic act's" about window tints.

The R.T. Act's only skim on the subject that you view should not be obstructed.

The only legal mention is via the NCT. However in the NCT's own words, the test is only valid on the day of the test. So the next day you could have tints on the front and not be prosecuted.


Please, please, please, if anybody is pulled over by the AGS and they are moaning about your tinted windows saying they are illegal, ask under what S.I. number it is illegal.
You will be on your way in 10 seconds

Devils advocat here: What if the tester was actually a seasoned NCT professional, and the OP has a fairly common model of car which the tester knows would fail with any additional tint at all.

I read from here that many vehicles come with a 25..30 percent tint as standard and they would fail even when an extra transparent foil was added...

Cookie_Monster

because they are on view to the public they need to do as described using proper instruments though to prove the claims they are making on the report. Its in their own interest to be seen to be highly professional and folowing procedure. Many people feel the NCT is a money making racket staffed by fools anyway and situations like above only re-enforce their point

bbability

Just out of curiosity will this be a part of the DOE now?

Del2005

mullingar wrote: »

There is nothing directly in the "road traffic act's" about window tints.

The R.T. Act's only skim on the subject that you view should not be obstructed.

The only legal mention is via the NCT. However in the NCT's own words, the test is only valid on the day of the test. So the next day you could have tints on the front and not be prosecuted.


Please, please, please, if anybody is pulled over by the AGS and they are moaning about your tinted windows saying they are illegal, ask under what S.I. number it is illegal.
You will be on your way in 10 seconds

Try that and the book will be thrown at you. The Gardaí will do you for driving without due care or something similar.

E39MSport

Del2005 wrote: »

Try that and the book will be thrown at you. The Gardaí will do you for driving without due care or something similar.

Exactly.

'Yes Sir Mr. Garda Sir. Sorry for your trouble' etc etc etc. Anything else is futile.

peasant

I keep repeating myself, but here it is again:

Most, if not all cars these days come with tinted windows as standard. This is coloured glass, right from the factory, usually with a green hue to it.
That glass already only has a light transmission of 72-75%, stick anything on it and you fail the test.

But even if your car had clear glass, it only has a light transmission of 90% (only with your window down will you ever get 100%!! ). Even light tint films of 25 or 30% bring you very near or under the limit then.

Hence I can see why a tester would visually reject a tint as too dark, they see them every day and know what passes and what doesn't. I still think they should use the meter though

Anan1

peasant wrote: »

I still think they should use the meter though

Me too, although the OP seems to accept that the car would fail. I'd like to see actual/target levels on the results sheet, as with some other tests.

dahamsta

bbability wrote: »

Just out of curiosity will this be a part of the DOE now?

When did this come in? I had my van tested last month and nothing was said to me. Don't know the percentage but it has a medium tint.

Del2005 wrote: »

Try that and the book will be thrown at you. The Gardaí will do you for driving without due care or something similar.

Yeah, because we should never challenge authority. :rolleyes:

+1 on the meter. The tester was wrong, period. These are technical tests, they must have technical proof. Bring it back and kick up a fuss, end of story.

Cookie_Monster

dahamsta wrote: »

Yeah, because we should never challenge authority. :rolleyes:

now now, the gubberment knows best

Anan1

dahamsta wrote: »

Yeah, because we should never challenge authority. :rolleyes:

+1 on the meter. The tester was wrong, period. These are technical tests, they must have technical proof. Bring it back and kick up a fuss, end of story.

If the OP genuinely feels that their car should have passed then by all means they should go back. This needs to be weighed against the prospect of their taking the time to go back only to be shown with a VLR that the car in fact fails. Challenging authority for the sake of it is a waste of ones own time & effort.

dahamsta

Probably less time than they've spent on this thread...

Anan1

dahamsta wrote: »

Probably less time than they've spent on this thread...

Touché.:D

P.C.

bbability wrote: »

I have my windows tinted (lightly btw) for a number of reasons and I'm not removing the tint for Gay Byrne and his posse of muppets.

I have a number a reasons why I don't like tinted front windows on a vehicle.

If I am going down a 'main' road, and I see a vehilce approaching, or at a junction waiting to join the 'main' road - I want to know that they have seen me (or at the very least, that they have looked in my direction).

When the windows are tinited, I can't see the driver, and therefore I do not know if they have looked in my direction, so - I do not know if they have seen me. Now, I will slow down slightly, and be prepaired to take avoiding action if I need to.
The vehicle with tinted front windows sees me slowing down, and thinks that I am letting them out of the junction, and so pull out infront of me - I now have brake hard/swerve left or right to avoid an accident.

The driver of the vehicle with the tinted front windows goes down the road, and thinks - what a nice person letting me out of the junction.

I go down the road, thinking - what a plonker driving that vehicle, why is it always some pr1ck with tinted front windows who pull out in front of me without looking, these people should not be allowed to drive, or have drivers licneces. :mad:

galwaytt

samih wrote: »

Devils advocat here: What if the tester was actually a seasoned NCT professional, and the OP has a fairly common model of car which the tester knows would fail with any additional tint at all.

I read from here that many vehicles come with a 25..30 percent tint as standard and they would fail even when an extra transparent foil was added...

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

because they are on view to the public they need to do as described using proper instruments though to prove the claims they are making on the report. Its in their own interest to be seen to be highly professional and folowing procedure. Many people feel the NCT is a money making racket staffed by fools anyway and situations like above only re-enforce their point

peasant wrote: »

I keep repeating myself, but here it is again:

Most, if not all cars these days come with tinted windows as standard. This is coloured glass, right from the factory, usually with a green hue to it.
That glass already only has a light transmission of 72-75%, stick anything on it and you fail the test.

But even if your car had clear glass, it only has a light transmission of 90% (only with your window down will you ever get 100%!! ). Even light tint films of 25 or 30% bring you very near or under the limit then.

Hence I can see why a tester would visually reject a tint as too dark, they see them every day and know what passes and what doesn't. I still think they should use the meter though

Not good enough. The NCT is supposed to be a professional, subjective, technical inspection. Not some 'arrah, sure, whatever-yer-havin'-yerself' test.

They can't fail light aim, tyre tread depth, brake or shock performance without using calibrated equipment, so they damn well shouldn't be failing anything else with a stated measurable without them, either.

bbability

I'll have a chart which I hope to post up here later on to show people exactly what VLR is. I think what alot of people are annoyed and confused about is how the actual reading is taken (or should be taken).

I rang the company that fitted the tint for me for a professional opinion. Needles to say the government forgot about the small-medium business introducing this quango rule. They're already struggling as it is.

Anyway the max aftermarket tint that you could apply to a vehicle is 5% which you cant buy.

The second point he made is that currently it is not against the law nor is it a requirement for the DOE. So if you drive a commercial vehicle for a living its ok to have tinted windows but if your a taxi driver you cant have tinted windows in the front.

The whole thing is a mess. If it was the same rule for everyone I'd probably swallow the pill but quite frankly it's got my back up and I'm going to get a legal point of view on this one.

dahamsta

Isn't a taxi a commercial vehicle.

Who set this rule anyway? I presume it was a directive to the testing centres, where did it come from? Did the source have scientific evidence to back up the requirement? A fiver says it came from a request from the Gardaí for "security", policing agencies seem to be responsible for this idiocy in other juristictions.

bbability

dahamsta wrote: »

Isn't a taxi a commercial vehicle.

Who set this rule anyway? I presume it was a directive to the testing centres, where did it come from? Did the source have scientific evidence to back up the requirement? A fiver says it came from a request from the Gardaí for "security", policing agencies seem to be responsible for this idiocy in other juristictions.

Taxis are tested in nct centres, other commercial vehicles are tested at doe centres

dahamsta

You're right of course, saw one there the last time I was getting the wife's car done!

gurramok

Its funny alright. If you bought a 2010 car in the morning and tinted the windows very dark, you'd have 4 years of freedom before you have to take the tints off. Where is the safety enforcement there?

bbability

Ok I know I'm breaking your hearts but here's I go..

I've spent some time on this over the weekend here's what I've found.

Its not against the law to tint your windows on your vehicle, front or back. (i've checked the road traffic act and I can't see any new laws indicating same)

Its a bit like borrowing a good set of tyres for the test knowing yours are under the test limit. You drive away from the NCT Centre with your Cert and put your old wheels on. Now in this example if you're stopped and you vehicle checked, you can be prosecuted as its covered under the road traffic act. (nothing to do with NCT but covered under different heading)

If I borrow a set of windows for my NCT, get my Cert and put my own windows back in the car get stopped on a routine check how can a guard scientifically and under the road traffic act tell me that I'm driving a car illegally?

My car has passed the NCT.
What I do with it (within the boundries of the law of course) is my business.

I just think that people are going soft in this country. Its about time someone actually asked the question is this a step too far?

Del2005

bbability wrote: »

Its a bit like borrowing a good set of tyres for the test knowing yours are under the test limit. You drive away from the NCT Centre with your Cert and put your old wheels on. Now in this example if you're stopped and you vehicle checked, you can be prosecuted as its covered under the road traffic act. (nothing to do with NCT but covered under different heading)

If I borrow a set of windows for my NCT, get my Cert and put my own windows back in the car get stopped on a routine check how can a guard scientifically and under the road traffic act tell me that I'm driving a car illegally?

If you're tires are under the limit for the test then they are under the limit for the road, by putting them back on will most definitely get done by the next Garda that sees them.

Depending on the time you are stopped they can do you for dangerous driving or driving without due care and attention. The Gardaí in this country don't need scientific evidence for this they can form an opinion that you're car is a danger and it will then be up to you to take a day off work to convince a judge that it isn't.

opinion guy

bbability wrote: »

My car has passed the NCT.
What I do with it (within the boundries of the law of course) is my business.

I just think that people are going soft in this country. Its about time someone actually asked the question is this a step too far?

Ok I'm all for your fight against arbitrariness. But how do your reckon you have passed ? did you get a certificate ? Or are you just going to insist to the gardai that you've passed and produce a complex diagram to explain how ? In which case they'll fine you anyhow for not having a certificate

bbability

opinion guy wrote: »

Ok I'm all for your fight against arbitrariness. But how do your reckon you have passed ? did you get a certificate ? Or are you just going to insist to the gardai that you've passed and produce a complex diagram to explain how ? In which case they'll fine you anyhow for not having a certificate

Oh I'll pass the test alright. To the expected standard but I want my windows test with a machine stating what the actual VLR is at present with my front windows.


Don't forget this is only a test. I will display a valid nct cert but I cant see how I'm committing an offence if I re tint the windows

galwaytt

bbability wrote: »

Don't forget this is only a test. I will display a valid nct cert but I cant see how I'm committing an offence if I re tint the windows

Exactly. NCT today, tint tomorrow. No law broken.

The NCT is a snapshot inspection, no warranty given or implied, stocks may go up as well as down, terms & conditions apply, your house is at risk yada, yada, yada.........:p

opinion guy

bbability wrote: »

Oh I'll pass the test alright. To the expected standard but I want my windows test with a machine stating what the actual VLR is at present with my front windows.


Don't forget this is only a test. I will display a valid nct cert but I cant see how I'm committing an offence if I re tint the windows

Oh sorry I didn't realise you were removing the tint for the test first!

Black Sky

Failed NCT recently on Windows tints (35% applied 4 years ago on a Family MPV 7 seater)....
Was in a professional tinting centre today, and their take was that if i took off the tints passed the visual, and then re-applied the same tints, the Gardai could do me for "invalidating my NCT" by doing so.
Make of that what you want.....

bbability

Black Sky wrote: »

Failed NCT recently on Windows tints (35% applied 4 years ago on a Family MPV 7 seater)....
Was in a professional tinting centre today, and their take was that if i took off the tints passed the visual, and then re-applied the same tints, the Gardai could do me for "invalidating my NCT" by doing so.
Make of that what you want.....

No such law as invalidating nct. You can re apply tint at the minute at your own risk.
Don't forget if you were having a van 'doe' d today tints are not part of test.

Bit unfair and unjust.

NCT is now under the arm of new contractors. Sgs lost contract or it wasn't renewed. I just wonder if they were informed that this would be a new law from the first of April but it hasn't been passed though the Senate... One wonders

opinion guy

Forgive my stupidity but how do you un-tint a wondow ?

Johnny Utah

They really didn't think this one through...

When this subject was raised a few months ago in a different thread, I knew it would cause problems. If the rule is strictly enforced, then what about state cars which may have tints?

macshadow

I'm almost sure that i read in a thread on here about a year ago that the gaurds in portlaoise have a device for checking the level of tint on cars.
If they check your tints and you fail, what can they do? why would they have this device if tints are not against the law?

Johnny Utah

macshadow wrote: »

I'm almost sure that i read in a thread on here about a year ago that the gaurds in portlaoise have a device for checking the level of tint on cars.
If they check your tints and you fail, what can they do? why would they have this device if tints are not against the law?

They could probably say that, under the Road Traffic Act, they are of the opinion that such a vehicle was unroadworthy. This legislation was introduced in the days of the Morris Minor and covers just about everything.....

I remember from that traffic blues programme; in one incident they made a young driver remove the tints (although that may have only been from his front windscreen).

pARTner81

I wonder will my van fail the DOE on the back windows being tinted. Does anyone know?

slimjimmc

pARTner81 wrote: »

I wonder will my van fail the DOE on the back windows being tinted. Does anyone know?

It won't fail (if the DOE even test for it). The restrictions only apply to glass in the front doors and the windscreen.

pARTner81

slimjimmc wrote: »

It won't fail (if the DOE even test for it). The restrictions only apply to glass in the front doors and the windscreen.[/QUOTE

Nice one slim.

Merch

opinion guy wrote: »

Forgive my stupidity but how do you un-tint a wondow ?

How do you untint? new windows? I dunno, sounds like it would cause damage

E39MSport

There are 2 types that I know of: -

1 - coloured glass from the factory - not a problem

2 - sticky horrible sh*t stuck to the glass.

In answer to your question for type 2 tintiutus - glass out and scrape the stuff off with the help of some heavy duty products.