Gun Club subscription query?

deeksofdoom

Just want to get input from members of NARGC affiliated club members on this;

NARGC is €50 per annum.

How much does your Gun Club membership cost per annum?

How do you pay for your membership, are any clubs around the country using direct debit payments, e.g. a weekly payment from your account into the club account?

Or is your treasurer run ragged from trying to collect subs from members.

greenpeter

Joining fee, 300euro
Yearly fee, 100euro.
These prices include NARGC membership.
No direct debit but some lads take a year to pay the annual membership.

deeksofdoom

Is that €300 a once of payment on joining the club or if they don't pay the membership for a year or two do they have to pay another €300 joining fee?

jap gt

110, was a 100 up until this year, thats everything included doesnt matter if you are new, all money must be paid to the board at set times, and if not paid by 1st september no membership is given until following year

greenpeter

deeksofdoom wrote: »

Is that €300 a once of payment on joining the club or if they don't pay the membership for a year or two do they have to pay another €300 joining fee?

300 once off but if you fail to pay your yearly fee you need to reapply and pay 300 again.

If you own land within the club land its only 150 joining

Cass

NARGC - €50
Club Fees - €100

We had no end of problems for the first 2 years. Lads slow in paying, paying in bits and pieces, etc. Now i know we all can have our reasons for not having the money especially in todays climate, but the club would pay all the fees and then try and collect.

The final straw came on the 3rd year. Same thing again. So come the 4th year at our AGM we issued all the usual paperwork (money spent on what, members details, membership badges, etc). We handed out a memo and went through it with all members. If memory serves the fee issue was addressed as follows:

Every year at the same time we collect fees. You all know when this is. So as and from next year we will issue reminders of fee due dates on the 30th June. Anyone not having paid their fees by mid August will receive a text reminding them they have 2 weeks to pay. Anyone failing to respond or for those who have not paid by this time we will consider that person as not intending to rejoin and their place will be given to those waiting to join.

Anyone facing financial difficulties or needing assistance or a quite word may do so by contacting the secretary or treasurer. A payment system can be implimented whereby the member can make monthly payments for a period of 4 months PRIOR to the begining of the new club year. Each payment will be recorded with a receipt.

This is not meant to insult or embarrass anyone. All communications relating to this payment method will be treated with the strictest confidence.

We had a few lads that took up the offer and one lad that did not rejoin (due to health reasons). We keep the fees as low as possible to encourage membership and as we already had 90% of the pens, etc built before the club was founded we needed only a small amount each year to maintain upkeep of the pens, buy new birds, etc.

Hope that is of some help.

deeksofdoom

I was thinking along the lines of a weekly standing order of say €3 a week to be paid into the club acount then nobody is under pressure to come up with the money. €3 isn't a lot to pay per week, it would take a bit of organising initially, but I think in the long run it would save a lot of hassle.

jap gt

deeksofdoom wrote: »

I was thinking along the lines of a weekly standing order of say €3 a week to be paid into the club acount then nobody is under pressure to come up with the money. €3 isn't a lot to pay per week, it would take a bit of organising initially, but I think in the long run it would save a lot of hassle.

to be honest if it where me i think once off payment is much easier, if you get 3 a week you might only get it for x amount of weeks and then nothing, at which time insurance will be paid and you leave yourself open to claims if its not, or as said let them pay over a month or two

deeksofdoom

jap gt wrote: »

to be honest if it where me i think once off payment is much easier, if you get 3 a week you might only get it for x amount of weeks and then nothing, at which time insurance will be paid and you leave yourself open to claims if its not, or as said let them pay over a month or two

A once of payment is fine if every member makes the once off payment on time, which doesn't happen.

A standing order would work better because, its set up between the member and his bank to pay €3 into the gun clubs bank account every week. The treasurer will be responsible for checking who is paying in. If there are any defaulters its up to the treasurer to investigate why. If a member has been defaulting on payments then the club doesn't pay his/her insurance or comes to an alternative arrangement,...... its a simple idea.

The advantages are as follows
1. Its easy for the member because he doesn't have to cough up the cash for membership every year.
2. Its easy for the treasurer because he isn't chasing people for money
3. The treasurer doesn't have to handle large amounts of cash
4. The treasurer doesn't have to make numerous trips to the bank and post office to lodge money and then post checks to the NARGC.
5. the treasurer sends off all the members applications for membership and a check to the NARGC in one envelope and the jobs a goodun.

But the one thing I would have to stress is the treasurer would want to be on the ball and ensure that the payments are being made by the members of the club who have agreed to this.

jap gt

only problem i see is that the club will have to pay nargc fees for each member at the start of every year, and if you just getting 3 a week you will need a good amount of money to cover members for the first year

Terrier

€70 - NARGC (Insurance & Compensation fund)
€30 - Club


€150 for members outside club boundaries for the first 2 years than standard

deeksofdoom

jap gt wrote: »

only problem i see is that the club will have to pay nargc fees for each member at the start of every year, and if you just getting 3 a week you will need a good amount of money to cover members for the first year

Jap sometimes you have to think outside the box. The first year there might be 3 the next year they're might be 5 and the year after there might be 10.... until you have every one paying the same way.

jap gt

deeksofdoom wrote: »

Jap sometimes you have to think outside the box. The first year there might be 3 the next year they're might be 5 and the year after there might be 10.... until you have every one paying the same way.

its a good idea, but as far as i know, the chair are held responsible if members are shooting without insurance, how do you stop someone paying 3 euro for a month getting insurance and then fecking off, maybe see how many members you get and see how the will want to pay, if i was you i would at least get the nargc money in one sum and then stage the rest of it

deeksofdoom

jap gt wrote: »

its a good idea, but as far as i know, the chair are held responsible if members are shooting without insurance, how do you stop someone paying 3 euro for a month getting insurance and then fecking off, maybe see how many members you get and see how the will want to pay, if i was you i would at least get the nargc money in one sum and then stahge the rest of it, nargc take insurance very seriously.

Okay I see what your not getting, essentially what the members would be doing is paying their membership in advance, so say from the 31st of July 2010 you will be paying €3 a week to pay your membership from the 1st of august 2011 onwards.

What you will be doing is paying cash up front for your membership for the next year.

This scheme wouldn't work if the club was to pay upfront without getting any money off the members.

Cass

deeksofdoom wrote:

A standing order would work better because, its set up between the member and his bank to pay €3 into the gun clubs bank account every week

We had thought do something similar, but a few things kept us from it. Yes it would make it easier for people to pay, however the member is actually paying all year round.

• The treasurer actually has more work constantly checking up on payments, be it weekly, forthnightly or monthly.
• If a payment is missed by a member then they can receive a charge of up to €10 depending on the members bank.
• In some banks if a payment (or two) is missed the direct debit is cancelled and if the member is not on the ball or the treasurer then weeks can go by without paying. Then the treasurer has to ring the member(s) involved. Then the member has to go and set up the direct debit again. Its hassle no-one wants or needs.
• When it comes to the AGM we supply each member with a breakdown of the clubs finances for the previous year. Imagine the amount of paperwork a treasurer will have to sift through to provide these. Most lads in my club are not computer literate or have any "financial/econmical" backround. Now i know you don't need a degree in finance to do the job, but try getting a treasurer fom year to year when the job may resemble being an accountant.
• If the club needs to spend money on birds, pens, gear, whatever they have to wait a few weeks at a time to get all the money needed together to buy the stuff they need. Even if everyone paid over the 4 month system we have in place then at least we are getting 35+ members paying €40 (or so) per month. That means each month we have €1400. If they were paying €3 p/w then we would only have €420. Not a major issue, but an issue none the less.
• Lastly, if some members pay their fees enough to cover ther membership and then cancel or allow their direct debit to lapse then you are left in the position to have to chase them up for the club money. If you tell them the money is taken in and not as insurance first then club fees they may ask for the money back and leave. I know this is a stretch, but i always try to think of all possibilities. It could cause a split or ill-feelings between members and as most are from the area could cause long term problems.

I'm not saying not to try it. DO. For a year anyway. If it works kepp it going. If not try something else. Do not over complicate things. Remember the K.I.S.S. system.


I would also agree with jap gt on the issue of insurance. If you at least get this up front then the other money is club money and somewhat less important than the insurance money.

jap gt

ok best of luck with it

deeksofdoom

ezridax wrote: »

We had thought do something similar, but a few things kept us from it. Yes it would make it easier for people to pay, however the member is actually paying all year round.

• The treasurer actually has more work constantly checking up on payments, be it weekly, forthnightly or monthly.

The treasurer will only have to check it once a year, and thats just before he makes his annual returns to the NARGC

ezridax wrote: »

[*]If a payment is missed by a member then they can receive a charge of up to €10 depending on the members bank.

They wouldn't want to miss any payments then would they.

ezridax wrote: »

[*]In some banks if a payment (or two) is missed the direct debit is cancelled and if the member is not on the ball or the treasurer then weeks can go by without paying. Then the treasurer has to ring the member(s) involved. Then the member has to go and set up the direct debit again. Its hassle no-one wants or needs.

€3 a week is less than the price of a pint, box of fags etc ... if you can't afford €3 a week you might as well throw your hat at it.

ezridax wrote: »

[*]When it comes to the AGM we supply each member with a breakdown of the clubs finances for the previous year. Imagine the amount of paperwork a treasurer will have to sift through to provide these. Most lads in my club are not computer literate or have any "financial/econmical" backround. Now i know you don't need a degree in finance to do the job, but try getting a treasurer fom year to year when the job may resemble being an accountant.

All the treasurer has to do is check that the money is coming in from the individual members.

ezridax wrote: »

[*]If the club needs to spend money on birds, pens, gear, whatever they have to wait a few weeks at a time to get all the money needed together to buy the stuff they need. Even if everyone paid over the 4 month system we have in place then at least we are getting 35+ members paying €40 (or so) per month. That means each month we have €1400. If they were paying €3 p/w then we would only have €420. Not a major issue, but an issue none the less.

Not really you don't spend money from funds that are being collected for the next year. This might entail setting up 2 bank accounts to prevent money getting mixed up.

ezridax wrote: »

[*]Lastly, if some members pay their fees enough to cover ther membership and then cancel or allow their direct debit to lapse then you are left in the position to have to chase them up for the club money. If you tell them the money is taken in and not as insurance first then club fees they may ask for the money back and leave. I know this is a stretch, but i always try to think of all possibilities. It could cause a split or ill-feelings between members and as most are from the area could cause long term problems.
I'm not saying not to try it. DO. For a year anyway. If it works kepp it going. If not try something else. Do not over complicate things. Remember the K.I.S.S. system.


I would also agree with jap gt on the issue of insurance. If you at least get this up front then the other money is club money and somewhat less important than the insurance money.

Th KISS system is foremost in my mind, keeping it simple for all concerned. Please read my previous post.

jap gt

a lot of people might not want to do it though standing order though as they will have to make sure the have the money in evry week, as said if you miss 2 direct debts you could be charged 10 euro, if a lad missed a few in the course of the year he could give the most of the cost of membership to the back in penalties

Cass

Was only trying to give you some perspective from all angles. If its not wanted no harm, no foul.

deeksofdoom

ezridax wrote: »

Was only trying to give you some perspective from all angles. If its not wanted no harm, no foul.

No I appreciate what you are saying and all feedback is welcome. In order to suggest something like this at a club meeting you would want to have all the pros and cons worked out and be able to answer every question that gets thrown at you.

I didn't take any offence from your post.

jap gt

deeksofdoom wrote: »

No I appreciate what you are saying and all feedback is welcome. In order to suggest something like this at a club meeting you would want to have all the pros and cons worked out and be able to answer every question that gets thrown at you.

I didn't take any offence from your post.

no harm in having your facts straight antway, but there is always some eejit in a club that will complain anyway you want to do things, you seem to have it well thought out though, so as said maybe trail it for a year or two, best of luck with it

Cass

Thats all i was tryint to say. Not wanting to preech or dictate to you.

Try each system until you get one that works, unfortunately every club has a few lads that will disagree for seemingly the sake of it. Its hard to please everyone all the time even when trying to help them.

A year or so ago we took the previously mentioned steps for the best interest of the club. No vote on the matter. It has to be done a times.

J.R.

deeksofdoom wrote: »

No I appreciate what you are saying and all feedback is welcome. In order to suggest something like this at a club meeting you would want to have all the pros and cons worked out and be able to answer every question that gets thrown at you.

I didn't take any offence from your post.

To be honest I wouldn't be bothered with the €3 per week standing order .....complicates things........people can take out a credit union loan for the club fees amount & pay the credit union €3 per week.

I think you will find it impossible to elect a treasurer for the club if you bring in the direct debit system...keep it simple, it's only a hobby.

I realise that in these difficult times the fees, in one amount, can seem a lot but let the member sort that out...take out a loan.....put something aside each month to cover fees etc....not club's problem.

On the matter of NARGC insurance the renewal should be paid before the end of July for all members. NARGC insurance runs out on 31st July & if not renewed by then members may have no insurance.....during a very busy period ...pigeon shooting over crops.

Some clubs, waiting for members to pay do not have the insurance paid by the end of July.

The difficulty arises if a member has paid in full at the end of June & assumes that he's going to be fully insured for the coming season. If he goes out in August & has an accident and then finds out that the insurance hasn't been paid as the club are waiting for some members to pay then the committee are responsible!!!

jap gt

our club sent away money for nargc every friday so anyone that paid was covered two weeks after paying, 3 people didnt pay and didnt contact the club to say why they hadnt so they wont be shooting on club ground this year

cavan shooter

NARGC €50
membership €30
Total €80

and by fk did they moan when the fees was raised this year by €10 (to do away with the annual draw)

and still you chase lads.... and chase them ...and this three year licence is not helping....neither are the guards..... talk to us when its time for renewals....
and neither is the NARGC.......its a local issue nothing top do with us.

I am a fully paid up insured member of CAI I can shoot a lot of land in of Nrth County Dublin, All my local neighbouring farmers in and around me.

Sparks says 2% do 98% of the works.....but lately its beyond a joke

(Rant over):D

I am still a member of a north county dublin club and pay €80 membership no insurance.

deeksofdoom

J.R. wrote: »

The difficulty arises if a member has paid in full at the end of June & assumes that he's going to be fully insured for the coming season. If he goes out in August & has an accident and then finds out that the insurance hasn't been paid as the club are waiting for some members to pay then the committee are responsible!!!

You can take it that the committee will be paying up for the fully paid up members before the start of the next insurance year. That's the whole idea of setting up the standing order. Not paying up because the club is waiting for a few more members to cough up their subs would be stupid.

Another thing is if you haven't received your NARGC membership card from the treasurer you should take it that your not insured and you shouldn't be out shooting.

Vegeta

I like your idea deeks but it wouldn't work in my club anyway

It's hard enough to get our lads to turn up for a meeting to hand over money. Asking them to set up a standing order wouldn't work

deeksofdoom

Vegeta wrote: »

I like your idea deeks but it wouldn't work in my club anyway

It's hard enough to get our lads to turn up for a meeting to hand over money. Asking them to set up a standing order wouldn't work

Tell me about it.

pedroeibar1

deeksofdoom wrote: »

Tell me about it.

Three euro a week is not workable. You would go blue in the face looking at a bank statement full of €3 credits.
If someone cannot afford 100 quid they are not interested in shooting. Announce that if any member has a membership fee problem, the club is open to a deal via an approach to the Treasurer. Only the genuinely broke will then approach the Treasurer who can give two options (1) allow 3 x monthly payments of 35 or, on production of soc. security card, allow a one year holiday where no shooting can take place but no re-entry fee needs to be paid on rejoining after the 12 months.



Best to facilitate good members, they always are hard to replace and also creates some goodwill.
FWIW
P.

Sparks

pedroeibar1 wrote: »

Three euro a week is not workable. You would go blue in the face looking at a bank statement full of €3 credits.

Works on a monthly basis though.
And for a fundraising idea, it's pretty decent. e.g. DURC sees ~30-40 regular members graduate each year, if four or five of them agreed to donate a fiver a month towards the club as a standing order, you wind up with a fairly healthy revenue source inside of a few years. And a fiver a month is not that much, even to a new graduate.