Does this make sense?

Big Mouth

Firstly, I ask people to FULLY READ my post before screaming "racist" bla bla bla.

In my opinion I would like Ireland to close its doors to the immigrant masses and preserve its ancient and unique culture (As many countries have).

Personally I think it Multi-cultaralism has to have a limit, Ireland I feel is reaching that limit now.

Don't get me wrong, I'm neither Racist or xenophobic and I love to travel to other countries to immerse myself in different cultures and love to meet people from Buenos Aires to Beijing.

I just think the world is becoming to small too quick.

If people could please stick to either agreeing or disagreeing with my views along with their reasons.

And anyone who wants counteract other posters then please start another thread. Thanks

stumpypeeps

Big Mouth wrote: »

Firstly, I ask people to FULLY READ my post before screaming "racist" bla bla bla.

In my opinion I would like Ireland to close its doors to the immigrant masses and preserve its ancient and unique culture (As many countries have).

Personally I think it Multi-cultaralism has to have a limit, Ireland I feel is reaching that limit now.

Don't get me wrong, I'm neither Racist or xenophobic and I love to travel to other countries to immerse myself in different cultures and love to meet people from Buenos Aires to Beijing.

I just think the world is becoming to small too quick.

If people could please stick to either agreeing or disagreeing with my views along with their reasons.

And anyone who wants counteract other posters then please start another thread. Thanks

I don't think the issue is the immigrant masses. Its more one of integration.

gandalf

But you are ignoring the fact that our ancient and unique culture is the result of the mixing of races and ideas. By taking the actions you prescribe you will stifle the development of our culture?

Lenny Lovett

So we (Irish) have been free to travel all over the world and work and earn money and prosper but we should deny that right to anyone who wants to come to our country and do likewise? Ireland (and it's people) need to open up our minds to new ideas and embrace change. Or else we'll stay in the old fashioned insular world that it has been. I've been lucky to work and live in several countries aroundto the world over the past twenty years and see it as a great privelage. I will happily welcome foreigeners here who have something to add our country.

Einhard

No it doesn't make sense, and is slightly racist, but possibly only because you haven't articulated it very well. You talk of Ireland having reached the limit of multi-culturalism, yet fail to define that limit or how it should be measured. Indeed, you seem to misunderstand the concept of multi-culturalism itself. There's a big difference between having an immigrant population, and being a multi-cultural society in the English style. The former, I believe, is a very good thing for any society, the latter can, admittedly, lead to problems and tensions. The key is not to start cracking down on immigration, but to ensure that immigrants integrate once they arrive here. And, for a number of reasons, I think we can have an easier time of this than England or France.

demonspawn

Big Mouth wrote: »

In my opinion I would like Ireland to close its doors to the immigrant masses and preserve its ancient and unique culture (As many countries have).

I reckon you're about 700 years too late on that one.

Personally I think it Multi-cultaralism has to have a limit, Ireland I feel is reaching that limit now.

Good thing the personal opinion of one man won't drive changes to our country's legislation. Democracy in action.

Don't get me wrong, I'm neither Racist or xenophobic and I love to travel to other countries to immerse myself in different cultures and love to meet people from Buenos Aires to Beijing.

Your objections to multiculturalism are based solely on race and culture. Why should I have to travel to Beijing to get a Chinese takeaway? That's just ridiculous?

I just think the world is becoming to small too quick.

The world has always been small, we just weren't able to realize it until recently.

demonspawn

By the way, racism simply means differentiating between people based solely on their race. It doesn't necessarily have to have negative connotations, but in this thread it certainly does as you seem to have the idea that other races should not live in our country. That's negative racism.

amacachi

Couldn't disagree more, the sooner old lines on maps become more irrelevant than they already are, the better.

deise go deo

Concidering what Irish culture has survived in the past Im not worried about Multicultralism being a threat to it. Certinally not worried enough to deny people from other countries the oppertunaty to come and live here.

sponsoredwalk

Unless your post was written as Gaeilge in a manner more colloquial to it's
original inception every single word of your post loses all credibility &
you show yourself to be extremely bigoted due to ignorance.
I'm sure you were lauding France for what it did to the Roma people despite
having much evidence to back up their claims.

Lenny Lovett

Einhard wrote: »

The key is not to start cracking down on immigration, but to ensure that immigrants integrate once they arrive here. And, for a number of reasons, I think we can have an easier time of this than England or France.

Spot on there Einhard. We could take many lessons on how not to do it from England. England not only allowed mass immigration from Asia and the Carribbean in the sixties and seventies but tended to house the immigrants in set areas. For example, today, Bradford is almost 55% Kashmiri Pakistani. East Leeds and parts of Lancashire tend to be concentrated Sikh communities. Parts of South London around Brixton tend to be dominated by Afro Carribbean and so on. Thus they have created ghettos and young people in those areas (born in the UK) are growing up extremely territorial and tending to drive out people who are not of their origin. Now, we need to ensure that immigrants to Ireland are integrated into all neighbourhoods and schoold etc so that we encourage a cross community and our kids grow up without the prejudices of their parents.

Brussels Sprout

Big Mouth wrote: »

Don't get me wrong, I'm neither Racist or xenophobic

I knew this line was coming

sponsoredwalk

Lol I expected it too, but I also expected a "I'm neither Racist or xenophobic but..."
but there never was the but

I was tempted to reply saying this already but just closed the page instead,
you've inspired me to mention it, it's the first I've seen of it's kind, this rare specimen :P

Big Mouth

Lenny Lovett wrote: »

Spot on there Einhard. We could take many lessons on how not to do it from England. England not only allowed mass immigration from Asia and the Carribbean in the sixties and seventies but tended to house the immigrants in set areas. For example, today, Bradford is almost 55% Kashmiri Pakistani. East Leeds and parts of Lancashire tend to be concentrated Sikh communities. Parts of South London around Brixton tend to be dominated by Afro Carribbean and so on. Thus they have created ghettos and young people in those areas (born in the UK) are growing up extremely territorial and tending to drive out people who are not of their origin. Now, we need to ensure that immigrants to Ireland are integrated into all neighbourhoods and schoold etc so that we encourage a cross community and our kids grow up without the prejudices of their parents.

Just because I don't want the likes of the above examples too happen in Ireland it makes me racist? Even though I stated I love visiting countries all over the world and meeting different people of all race and creed.

What country in the world has intergration ever worked well?

England? No.....USA? No.....France? No.....there is some merit in what I am saying so don't try brush it off as "Racism".

And I happen to like the Eastern European, Nigerian, etc peoples we have in Ireland, however, the current wave of immigration can't continue. In then years time when there are ghettos in Parnell Street and other places you might change your tune.

Bottle_of_Smoke

Big Mouth wrote: »

Just because I don't want the likes of the above examples too happen in Ireland it makes me racist? Even though I stated I love visiting countries all over the world and meeting different people of all race and creed.

Sorry mate. Unless you're an out and out liberal who wants everyone on the planet welcomed here no questions asked you're a bigoted racist who hates everyone who's even slightly different.

There's no middle ground on this board. Do yourself a favour and forget about this thread before your eyes start to bleed

demonspawn

Big Mouth wrote: »

What country in the world has intergration ever worked well?

Racism does not allow for integration. The racists in this country and others force these people into separate communities and try to convince everyone that this is what must be done to protect our "cultural identity". Or they straight up refuse to accept these immigrants and demand they be returned to their own countries.

Tell me, when has segregation and apartheid ever worked? Do you remember the civil rights movement in the U.S. in the 60s? South Africa ring any bells? Racism begets violence and hatred, nothing more. Acceptance and understanding begets peace and integration.

sponsoredwalk

Immigration is declining, I'm getting the whiff of Irish Aryanism :pac:

demonspawn

sponsoredwalk wrote: »

Immigration is declining, I'm getting the whiff of Irish Aryanism :pac:

Nope, they've just figured out this country isn't worth moving to anymore. You can't make money here as an immigrant, or at least not enough to put up with the bullsh*t we all have to put up with on a daily basis.

The only appeal this country has is it's welfare system but most immigrants come here to work, not mooch off the state. No work so no point in coming.

sponsoredwalk

But I keep reading on boards that they are all here on a free lunch to
mooch off the generous welfare & take all that they can get without working
a day for any of it???

I'm so confused

Big Mouth

demonspawn wrote: »

Nope, they've just figured out this country isn't worth moving to anymore. You can't make money here as an immigrant, or at least not enough to put up with the bullsh*t we all have to put up with on a daily basis.

The only appeal this country has is it's welfare system but most immigrants come here to work, not mooch off the state. No work so no point in coming.

Looks like I have nothing to worry about then, I take most immigrants will leave this hell hole society in search of greener pastures.........And you think I look foolish!!

Frogeye

Lenny Lovett wrote: »

So we (Irish) have been free to travel all over the world and work and earn money and prosper but we should deny that right to anyone who wants to come to our country and do likewise? Ireland (and it's people) need to open up our minds to new ideas and embrace change. Or else we'll stay in the old fashioned insular world that it has been. I've been lucky to work and live in several countries aroundto the world over the past twenty years and see it as a great privelage. I will happily welcome foreigeners here who have something to add our country.

Hey Lenny. Agree with that people who have something to add are welcome but I don't think some people want to add. They just stay in their own groups and don't mix and don't want to mix. We need to make it easy for them to integrate but they need to make efforts too.

I don't think we are free to travel and work all over the world. I needed visas for Oz, Pakistan, India, Saudi ........America isn't that open anymore....Okay we have the choice to try and go to these place so in that way we are free but its not like we can arrive on anywhere we want and open up shop and away we go

In general I think Irish people are quite open .If your nice to me , I'll be nice to you is the attitude I see around.


I'll tell you one thing, when the local "imigrant" lad ( be he roma, polish, fillipino or whatever) is knocking in 2-4 every sunday for the local hurling team he won't be long being integrated. The big problem is getting him into hurling in the first place! The GAA could be the solution! Serioously. Local organisation, always looking for recruits especially in rural areas.

Wolfe Tone

Just make sure that they are not just coming here to abuse social welfare and that they actually want to contribute to our society and become a part of it, rather than a distinct "ghetto" section of it.

demonspawn

Big Mouth wrote: »

Looks like I have nothing to worry about then, I take most immigrants will leave this hell hole society in search of greener pastures.........And you think I look foolish!!

Well, I'm actually planning on moving to the UK or elsewhere for a couple of years to save some money up, as are thousands of young Irish people. I may even give Poland a shot, they have teh sexy womens. What's your point exactly?

demonspawn

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

Just make sure that they are not just coming here to abuse social welfare and that they actually want to contribute to our society and become a part of it, rather than a distinct "ghetto" section of it.

Name me one "ghetto" that was created by the people that were forced to live in them. Name one. Oh, maybe you mean you don't want a Chinatown or a Little Italy type place in this country? Why not exactly? Those places make tons of money for the city of New York as tourist destinations. Rather unfortunate choice of words there.

Edit: We should go destroy the Japanese gardens down in Kildare. How dare those Japanese come and build their fancy gardens in our country. Are our gardens not good enough?

sponsoredwalk

demonspawn wrote: »

they have teh sexy womens.

+100

demonspawn

sponsoredwalk wrote: »

+100

You should see the Lithuanians. I worked at a shop in Dublin with a Lithuanian girl, she was unbelievably hot and she even talked to me every day! I helped her practice her English but was too shy to ask her out. Bring on the immigrants I say!! The more the sexier!

sponsoredwalk

Haha, as did I but she was like 40-ish and not exactly milf material
Some of the Polish girls I worked with though, :eek::D

demonspawn

Romanian girls are inexplicably good looking, I mean loads of them are. It's just not statistically possible.
My manager was a 35ish year old redheaded Romanian....married though. Anyone who lived in north side Dublin a few years ago and shopped in the Favorite Checkout on Dorset St. knows who I mean.

Wolfe Tone

demonspawn wrote: »

Name me one "ghetto" that was created by the people that were forced to live in them. Name one. Oh, maybe you mean you don't want a Chinatown or a Little Italy type place in this country? Why not exactly? Those places make tons of money for the city of New York as tourist destinations. Rather unfortunate choice of words there.

Edit: We should go destroy the Japanese gardens down in Kildare. How dare those Japanese come and build their fancy gardens in our country. Are our gardens not good enough?

Might want to read what I said again.

society and become a part of it, rather than a distinct "ghetto" section of it.

As in we need to make sure sure that they integrate and not just keep to themselves.

Folllow?

demonspawn

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

Might want to read what I said again. As in we need to make sure sure that they integrate and not just keep to themselves.

Folllow?

You have no idea what a ghetto is do you? It's an area of a town or city where "undesirable" people are forced to live to segregate them from the rest of society. Blacks in apartheid South Africa were forced to live in ghettos, Jews in Germany, blacks in the U.S., most immigrants in the UK...follow?

As I said, an unfortunate choice of words. And so what if they want to live in their own neighborhoods? What difference does it make to you? They are still contributing to society, they just have better neighbors.

sponsoredwalk

The way I've seen foreign people treated in this country at times it's no
surprise that they would want to stick together. I'd prefer to let people
choose how they want to live, if they want to stick together then that's
fine, I think we want to ask ourselves why they'd prefer to stay together
than mix in with society.

Wolfe Tone

demonspawn wrote: »

You have no idea what a ghetto is do you? It's an area of a town or city where "undesirable" people are forced to live to segregate them from the rest of society. Blacks in apartheid South Africa were forced to live in ghettos, Jews in Germany, blacks in the U.S., most immigrants in the UK...follow?

As I said, an unfortunate choice of words. And so what if they want to live in their own neighborhoods? What difference does it make to you? They are still contributing to society, they just have better neighbors.

I know perfectly well what a ghetto is. You obviously only know one meaning of it. What can force people to live in them? Thats right, social pressures too.

Was quite clear what I meant. I was using it not in a physical sense of them all living in one area, but a "social ghetto" where immigrants for whatever reason only interact with each other and not the society as a whole.

Brussels Sprout

Big Mouth wrote: »

Firstly, I ask people to FULLY READ my post before screaming "racist" bla bla bla.

In my opinion I would like Ireland to close its doors to the immigrant masses and preserve its ancient and unique culture (As many countries have).

Personally I think it Multi-cultaralism has to have a limit, Ireland I feel is reaching that limit now.

Don't get me wrong, I'm neither Racist or xenophobic and I love to travel to other countries to immerse myself in different cultures and love to meet people from Buenos Aires to Beijing.

I just think the world is becoming to small too quick.

If people could please stick to either agreeing or disagreeing with my views along with their reasons.

And anyone who wants counteract other posters then please start another thread. Thanks

Seriously though, I disagree. I for one love the fact that the city I grew up in is now awash with interesting looking people from different countries. It breathes new life into the place and really makes me feel like I'm not just irish man but also a european and an earthling (couldn't think of a better word) too.

Besides, how exactly would you go about enforcing something like this? You can't keep out anyone from the EU. (or is it just the non-whites you want out?)

In comparison to other countries we have very few asians or africans. The numbers of asylum seekers are falling now as well. All in all we do not have a problem here. As others have pointed out with proper integration hopefully we can keep it that way.

oh and +1 to Poland having the sexy wiminz

demonspawn

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

I know perfectly well what a ghetto is. You obviously only know one meaning of it. What can force people to live in them? Thats right, social pressures too.

Was quite clear what I meant. I was using it not in a physical sense of them all living in one area, but a "social ghetto" where immigrants for whatever reason only interact with each other and not the society as a whole.

Hey, as long as they work (I don't even work atm) and pay their taxes that's enough interaction for me. What else do you want? Anything else is just the perks of multiculturalism like tasty food and cool clothes, maybe a few foreign language classes and martial arts courses. How many Irish interacted with their communities in the U.S., UK, etc.? Ever seen Gangs of New York?

Jeboa Safari

I think there needs to be some checks put on immigration. For a start, immigrants should be checked to make sure they don't have a criminal record before they arrive, and any immigrant who commits a crime here within their first say 5 years, should be deported in my opinion.
I think they should also be encouraged to adapt to our culture, rather than us bending over backwards to accommodate them for fear of someone taking offense to something (although I notice it's usually the bleeding heart liberals getting offended on behalf of foreigners as opposed the foreigners themselves).

The asylum situation should also be fixed, and anyone here illegally should get one quick hearing, and if they're refused asylum, then that should be it, not the endless appeals system we have now. And I'd be highly skeptical of a lot of the asylum seekers here who say that Ireland is the first safe country they could make it to. I'd more be a fan of taking refugees as part of a UN resettlement plan similar to what we did with the Vietnamese refugees.

timespast

Big Mouth wrote: »

Firstly, I ask people to FULLY READ my post before screaming "racist" bla bla bla.

In my opinion I would like Ireland to close its doors to the immigrant masses and preserve its ancient and unique culture (As many countries have).

Personally I think it Multi-cultaralism has to have a limit, Ireland I feel is reaching that limit now.

Don't get me wrong, I'm neither Racist or xenophobic and I love to travel to other countries to immerse myself in different cultures and love to meet people from Buenos Aires to Beijing.

I just think the world is becoming to small too quick.

If people could please stick to either agreeing or disagreeing with my views along with their reasons.

And anyone who wants counteract other posters then please start another thread. Thanks

I'm surprised at this but to a point I agree with you.

I can argue the point on immigration due to economic reasons.... I would of argued the opposite some years back when we needed migrant workers.

I grew up in Wales ........ whatever you may think education standards did drop as resources had to be given for language difficulties etc. Believe me locals did their very best to get out of these schools in high immigrant areas.

Welsh was popular when I was a kid and some years later Urdu and Hindi were encouraged .....to the loss of Welsh to a point.

I have read here that Immigrants were forced into areas by the Council/Govt in the UK..... what nonsense. Immigrants set up communities ...... Mosques/Temples, trade etc (in the one area).....thats not multi - culturalism that's exclusion.

I worked with a few Indians from Gujarat.... nice enough people but they certainly weren't interested in Multi culturalism or fostering close ties. I once asked a guy if I met his daughter and we felt strongly enough to settle down how would he take it? " Don't be silly....it wouldn't happen"

Numbers have to be controlled.....it's common sense ( we aren't in Utopia yet)

You only have to read here how so many are coming down hard on the unemployed.......wait until they start on the immigrants.

Some of you talk about multi culturalism........if a few travellers came into your local bar a lot of you would be fighting each other to be the first out of the door.

Wolfe Tone

timespast wrote: »

I'm surprised at this but to a point I agree with you.

I can argue the point on immigration due to economic reasons.... I would of argued the opposite some years back when we needed migrant workers.

I grew up in Wales ........ whatever you may think education standards did drop as resources had to be given for language difficulties etc. Believe me locals did their very best to get out of these schools in high immigrant areas.

Welsh was popular when I was a kid and some years later Urdu and Hindi were encouraged .....to the loss of Welsh to a point.

I have read here that Immigrants were forced into areas by the Council/Govt in the UK..... what nonsense. Immigrants set up communities ...... Mosques/Temples, trade etc (in the one area).....thats not multi - culturalism that's exclusion.

I worked with a few Indians from Gujarat.... nice enough people but they certainly weren't interested in Multi culturalism or fostering close ties. I once asked a guy if I met his daughter and we felt strongly enough to settle down how would he take it? " Don't be silly....it wouldn't happen"

Numbers have to be controlled.....it's common sense ( we aren't in Utopia yet)

You only have to read here how so many are coming down hard on the unemployed.......wait until they start on the immigrants.

Some of you talk about multi culturalism........if a few travellers came into your local bar a lot of you would be fighting each other to be the first out of the door.

In fairness in my local we lock the doors and turn off the lights and hide in the back when we hear travelers are in town.

Completely different to a few polish lads.

timespast

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

In fairness in my local we lock the doors and turn off the lights and hide in the back when we hear travelers are in town.

Completely different to a few polish lads.

I think the Polish are wonderful people...very similar to the Irish.

SWP types "let them all in....your being racist" are as ridiculous as Racists themselves.

Annasopra

Big Mouth wrote: »

In my opinion I would like Ireland to close its doors to the immigrant masses and preserve its ancient and unique culture

what exactly is this ancient and unique culture?

Einhard

Jeboa Safari wrote: »

I think they should also be encouraged to adapt to our culture, rather than us bending over backwards to accommodate them for fear of someone taking offense to something (although I notice it's usually the bleeding heart liberals getting offended on behalf of foreigners as opposed the foreigners themselves).

People always go about how we're supposedly diluting our culture so as to appease immigrants, "bending over backwards" to change our ways to suit them, but I haven't seen anything of the sort in Ireland. Care to elaborate for me?

Revolution9

demonspawn wrote: »

Hey, as long as they work (I don't even work atm) and pay their taxes that's enough interaction for me. What else do you want? Anything else is just the perks of multiculturalism like tasty food and cool clothes, maybe a few foreign language classes and martial arts courses. How many Irish interacted with their communities in the U.S., UK, etc.? Ever seen Gangs of New York?

We will have the most fashionable food loving ninjas the world has ever seen! All shall fall to their knees before us!

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

demonspawn

timespast wrote: »

I worked with a few Indians from Gujarat.... nice enough people but they certainly weren't interested in Multi culturalism or fostering close ties. I once asked a guy if I met his daughter and we felt strongly enough to settle down how would he take it? " Don't be silly....it wouldn't happen"

So you asked a man you work with if he'd object to you marrying his daughter, a daughter you've never met before?

Did you ever think that he's just overprotective? Did you stop to think she might just be terribly ugly, hence "Don't be silly....it wouldn't happen"? Did you ever consider the fact that many Indians have arranged marriages and it has nothing whatsoever to do with race? You do realize there's a very strict caste system in India and you are not even allowed to marry outside your caste, right? It had nothing to do with you being white, believe me.

Seems to me your problem is just a lack of knowledge about other cultures more than anything else. A bit of multiculturalism would do you some good if you ask me.

timespast

demonspawn wrote: »

So you asked a man you work with if he'd object to you marrying his daughter, a daughter you've never met before?

Did you ever think that he's just overprotective? Did you stop to think she might just be terribly ugly, hence "Don't be silly....it wouldn't happen"? Did you ever consider the fact that many Indians have arranged marriages and it has nothing whatsoever to do with race? You do realize there's a very strict caste system in India and you are not even allowed to marry outside your caste, right? It had nothing to do with you being white, believe me.

Seems to me your problem is just a lack of knowledge about other cultures more than anything else. A bit of multiculturalism would do you some good if you ask me.

I know the Indian/Hindu culture very well thanks........ hence my point that most aren't interested in multi culturalism.

I also know about the caste system.....nothing about being White or non Hindu? err yeah ok....the caste system is as ridiculous as apartheid was.

As I said the point is about multl culturalism.....it's a two way thing..... it might not fit in with a few people who promote "the Irish are racist etc etc."

I knew the guy many years........ he knew what I meant and I know what he meant. As for their treatment of women.....I won't even go there.

Criticism only seems to be a one way thing too.

Look in any city where there are large immigrant communities....I'll give you an example....Cardiif.

Riverside and Grangetown have very large Asian communities (Hindu, Sikh and Muslim) 40 years later they are still there.......... would't you have thought multi culturalism would of worked by now and these communities have integrated with the general population by now?

Irish, Greeks, Italians, Jews, etc. have.

Jeboa Safari

Einhard wrote: »

People always go about how we're supposedly diluting our culture so as to appease immigrants, "bending over backwards" to change our ways to suit them, but I haven't seen anything of the sort in Ireland. Care to elaborate for me?

Like the story a while back of some creche's cancelling their nativity play because it might offend some people, or there was a story where St James Hospital removed their crib aswell

sponsoredwalk

Yes that's a question of the secularization of public areas, that's nothing to
do with immigrants.

/fail...

Jeboa Safari

sponsoredwalk wrote: »

Yes that's a question of the secularization of public areas, that's nothing to
do with immigrants.

/fail...

Its to do with idiots getting offended on behalf of foreigners, who probably don't have any problem with it at all

Einhard

Jeboa Safari wrote: »

Like the story a while back of some creche's cancelling their nativity play because it might offend some people, or there was a story where St James Hospital removed their crib aswell

Do you have a link? And that's the sum total of your evidence for the lack of integration in Ireland?! That's pretty incredible. School changes nativity, hospital removes crib, ergo immigrants in Ireland are completely failing to integrate, ghettoisation is rife, inter-community tensions are at boiling point....we should clamp down on immigration into Ireland. I see how that works.

Also, as I keep pointing out to my friends who get their knickers in a collective twist when something like the above happens, it wasn't the immigrants who demanded the removal of the crib, or the replacement of the statue of Mary in the hospital in Kerry. It was the administration of the hospital. I remember listening to Joe Duffy at the the time of the latter incident, and the usual ragbag of cranks and racists were on complaining about the cheek of these immigrants, while on the other side you had the immigrants themselves ringing int to say that they didn't gove a shit about the bloody statue, and certainly hadn't asked for its removal!! But never let the facts get in the way of a good story eh? Especially when that story involves giving immigration a good kicking.

Also, I don't think schools should have nativity plays. I don't think it's unreasonable for Muslim or Jewish or atheist parents to ask that their children's education, for which they pay, not be interrupted for a paegent that caters only to one group of children.

sponsoredwalk

Ah I see it's the bleeding heart liberals who don't want to hurt the for'nurs
feelings, the same loony left that fill up the ranks of the pc brigade...

The case you've mentioned is simply in line with secularization of public
spaces & is just a logical thing to do. You can call this an idiotic thing if
you want but please consider the logic of what you're proposing.
If we take your perpective then we're perfectly entitled to drape
courtrooms in religious iconography because those for'nurs are in our
territory now :rolleyes:
We may as well require those for'nurs, who wouldn't really mind, to go to
mass because look, they are in our territory now & if they're not going to
contribute and go to the pub to watch GAA matches and go to mass then
they are just being difficult and not contributing. This is all similar logic to
that you've proposed, it's a simple question of not being hypocritical by
removing religious elements from society so that people are free to do
whatever they want in the privacy of their own homes.
Put another way, freedom from coersion. If that makes someone an idiot...

As I said, nothing to do with banning all for'nurs...

Jeboa Safari

Einhard wrote: »

Do you have a link? And that's the sum total of your evidence for the lack of integration in Ireland?! That's pretty incredible. School changes nativity, hospital removes crib, ergo immigrants in Ireland are completely failing to integrate, ghettoisation is rife, inter-community tensions are at boiling point....we should clamp down on immigration into Ireland. I see how that works.

Also, as I keep pointing out to my friends who get their knickers in a collective twist when something like the above happens, it wasn't the immigrants who demanded the removal of the crib, or the replacement of the statue of Mary in the hospital in Kerry. It was the administration of the hospital. I remember listening to Joe Duffy at the the time of the latter incident, and the usual ragbag of cranks and racists were on complaining about the cheek of these immigrants, while on the other side you had the immigrants themselves ringing int to say that they didn't gove a shit about the bloody statue, and certainly hadn't asked for its removal!! But never let the facts get in the way of a good story eh? Especially when that story involves giving immigration a good kicking.

Also, I don't think schools should have nativity plays. I don't think it's unreasonable for Muslim or Jewish or atheist parents to ask that their children's education, for which they pay, not be interrupted for a paegent that caters only to one group of children.

Yes go ahead and put words in my mouth and take what I said out of context, congratulation. :rolleyes:

I haven't said immigrants are completely failing to integrate.
Never mentioned ghettoisation.
Nothing about inter-community realtions reaching boiling point.
Didn't say immigration should be stopped, said there should be some checks to make sure we're not taking in foreign criminals, and immigrants that commit crimes here should be deported. Although I do think numbers should have some dependence on the strenght of our economy, but that happens more or less naturally. And if you read my post, you'll see I said it's usually idiots getting offended on behalf of foreigners, and not the immigrants themselves. But I don't see why we should have to change in order to accomodate others who are coming here of their own free will. I wouldn't go to Saudi Arabia and demand they remove all references to Islam because I might get offended.

But don't let what I didn't say get in the way of a good rant from your high horse, eh?

sponsoredwalk wrote: »

Ah I see it's the bleeding heart liberals who don't want to hurt the for'nurs
feelings, the same loony left that fill up the ranks of the pc brigade...

The case you've mentioned is simply in line with secularization of public
spaces & is just a logical thing to do. You can call this an idiotic thing if
you want but please consider the logic of what you're proposing.
If we take your perpective then we're perfectly entitled to drape
courtrooms in religious iconography because those for'nurs are in our
territory now :rolleyes:
We may as well require those for'nurs, who wouldn't really mind, to go to
mass because look, they are in our territory now & if they're not going to
contribute and go to the pub to watch GAA matches and go to mass then
they are just being difficult and not contributing. This is all similar logic to
that you've proposed, it's a simple question of not being hypocritical by
removing religious elements from society so that people are free to do
whatever they want in the privacy of their own homes.
Put another way, freedom from coersion. If that makes someone an idiot...

As I said, nothing to do with banning all for'nurs...

So we shouldn't display anything of our Christian heritage in public?

Einhard

Jeboa Safari wrote: »

Yes go ahead and put words in my mouth and take what I said out of context, congratulation. :rolleyes:

I haven't said immigrants are completely failing to integrate.
Never mentioned ghettoisation.
Nothing about inter-community realtions reaching boiling point.
Didn't say immigration should be stopped, said there should be some checks to make sure we're not taking in foreign criminals, and immigrants that commit crimes here should be deported. Although I do think numbers should have some dependence on the strenght of our economy, but that happens more or less naturally. And if you read my post, you'll see I said it's usually idiots getting offended on behalf of foreigners, and not the immigrants themselves. But I don't see why we should have to change in order to accomodate others who are coming here of their own free will. I wouldn't go to Saudi Arabia and demand they remove all references to Islam because I might get offended.

But don't let what I didn't say get in the way of a good rant from your high horse, eh?

Eh I responded to your point in the context of the rest of the thread, which I presume was the context in which you made it? Doesn't seem an unreasonable position for me to have taken to be perfectly honest.

The OP claimed that immigration should be halted, and one of the reasons he gave for this was because of the failure to integrate immigrant communities and the potentially negative consequences of this. In that context you posted that we "bend over backwards" to accomodate immigrants, and that we dilute our own cultural heritage to appease them. Both those statements are highly charged, and while I don't believe you are racist, or particularly anti-immigrant, those kind of arguments are routinely used by those who are. I didn't accuse you of anything, I didn't put words in your mouth; rather, in an anti-immigration thread, I responded to claims that our culture is being diminished to appease said immigrants. I think it was a perfectly reasonable response, and certainly not of the ranting kind.