Freefall programme on rte 1

Slideshowbob

Anyone else want to have heard Brian lenihan on phone to French finance minister explaining the bank guarantee to her in french even though she has perfect English? :rolleyes:

Dirk Gently

What I found astonishing is that they tried to pin the blame on deregulation and hyper free market practices. Was it not the unions and public workers who caused the crash, and the free market and deregulation our only saviour? Nice to be reminded of the ideology of the crash before it's airbrushed out of history under the unrelenting weight of rants to sell off, deregulate and slash wages to make "the market" love us again.

Got a chuckle when Lenihan said he couldn't be reached because he was at a FF race day when the EU called to tell him to save the banks at all cost. Sometimes all you can do is laugh. Good to see a bit of honesty for a change. :pac:

ei.sdraob

clown bag wrote: »

Got a chuckle when Lenihan said he couldn't be reached because he was at a FF race day when the EU called to tell him to save the banks at all cost. Sometimes all you can do is laugh. Good to see a bit of honesty for a change. :pac:

Says alot doesnt it?

The ECB boss cant get thru to the finance minister as the stocks are collapsing, because he is at a Fianna Fail "event" at a racecourse :mad: ****ing hell like


Anyways is it me or did they try hard to paint Brian Lenihan as the knight in shining armor that tried to rescue Ireland

Interesting how the they blame the markets aint it? sure its all the Lehman Brothers, have we heard that one before :rolleyes: Other countries that embraced same banking practices and worse like Iceland already got rid of their government (imagine that!), had a referendum and series of enquiries while we here in Ireland continue to sink deeper

Alwayson

Interesting programme but why the need for all the talking heads? There must have been at least 20, the usual suspects, McWilliams, Ross, Power, Cooper etc. Does RTE think we won't believe anything unless we hear it from these "gurus"? Good narration would have done for me. There was even one instance where the camera cut from one guy starting a sentence to McWilliams finishing it. Reminds me of a FAS video editing course I did once.

MrDarcy

ei.sdraob wrote: »

Says alot doesnt it?

The ESB ECB boss cant get thru to the finance minister as the stocks are collapsing, because he is at a Fianna Fail "event" at a racecourse :mad: ****ing hell like


Anyways is it me or did they try hard to paint Brian Lenihan as the knight in shining armor that tried to rescue Ireland

Interesting how the they blame the markets aint it? sure its all the Lehman Brothers, have we heard that one before :rolleyes: Other countries that embraced same banking practices and worse like Iceland already got rid of their government (imagine that!), had a referendum and series of enquiries while we here in Ireland continue to sink deeper

Fixed that for ya! :D:D

Gus99

ei.sdraob wrote: »

Interesting how the they blame the markets aint it? sure its all the Lehman Brothers, have we heard that one before :rolleyes:

In fairness, my understanding from the closing remarks were that next week's episode will focus on the disastrous policies which exacerbated the crash in Ireland

ei.sdraob

Gus99 wrote: »

In fairness, my understanding from the closing remarks were that next week's episode will focus on the disastrous policies which exacerbated the crash in Ireland

My understanding from closing remarks is that they will try to paint Bertie in a good light.
We cant have him claiming any responsibility now can we

The whole documentary seems like a propaganda piece by FF for FF

Nijmegen

The whole piece was unconvincing, and did seem like an awful sop to our government.

Not even a mention of the likes of the Anglo-Nationwide "Let's book a loan as deposits" scandle, or other such things that should see some of these people tossed in prison.

kuntboy

Classic pro-FF spin from the national propaganda machine RTE. I'm sure the Minister for Propaganda Communications didn't approve this first. FF did no wrong, it was "deregulation", or something.

Just makes my blood boil that these pr1cks have destroyed us and gotten away scott free.

silverharp

it was like a party political broadcast , it was this or riots in the street. :rolleyes:

Skrynesaver

Probably worth waiting for the second half before condemning utterly, but this seemed to be a rehash of the "It was all Lehmans fault" BS we've heard before.

If the second episode comes out with the "Sure we all borrowed too much" I may need to be medicated.

• I didn't borrow beyond what I could afford
• I didn't buy "investment" properties
• I didn't go on shopping trips to New York
• Or Golfing jaunts to Dubai
• and I certainly didn't buy nor fund the purchase of property @ €84million per acre

Fortunately I still have a job, however I'm going to be lumbered with this bill as are the next 2 generations of my family. Is it unreasonable to want these irresponsible idiots punished?

GSF

Bertie next week will claim that nobody warned him. Hopefully they will slice that bit of film next to the one where he tells the cribbers & moaners talking down the economy to go off and commit suicide :mad:If not then this will just be a FF rehab project.

acatisacat

next week looks really creepy.......

jank

Any idea if this is going to be on rte player?

mikemac

jank wrote: »

Any idea if this is going to be on rte player?

Yep, it's there now

Slideshowbob wrote: »

Anyone else want to have heard Brian lenihan on phone to French finance minister explaining the bank guarantee to her in french even though she has perfect English? :rolleyes:

What's the issue?
If you call someone in France and can speak French then why wouldn't you do so?

jank

jank wrote: »

Any idea if this is going to be on rte player?

It usually takes a few days to appear there or just ahead of the following weeks episode.


what was matt cooper doing on it? he's not an economist.

GreeBo

Slideshowbob wrote: »

Anyone else want to have heard Brian lenihan on phone to French finance minister explaining the bank guarantee to her in french even though she has perfect English? :rolleyes:

What a stupid "point" to make. He is fluent in French and speaking to a French person in France.
Would you also be laughing at the French finance minister speaking to him in English when he has perfect French?

Joe1919

There was a tradition and courtesy that if one rings a foreign country, the person who makes the call should speak in the language of the country that is called. This makes sense. How could a telephone operator know every language and hence, if one wants to ring a French government department, the onus is on the caller to speak in French or provide a translator, if this is necessary.

Idbatterim

I also had to laugh at Lenihan being at a FF event at a racecourse, when he missed the call. Does he not realise the way the public in general see FF! :rolleyes:

Économiste Monétaire

jank wrote: »

Any idea if this is going to be on rte player?

http://www.rte.ie/player/#v=1079867

eireoflot

fairly slick but low on substance.probably made with an eye on flogging it overseas.

Thargor

eireoflot wrote: »

fairly slick but low on substance.probably made with an eye on flogging it overseas.

Eh? Who would give a crap outside Ireland?

eireoflot

comedy central, hallmark,living:)

jmayo

ei.sdraob wrote: »

Says alot doesnt it?

The ECB boss cant get thru to the finance minister as the stocks are collapsing, because he is at a Fianna Fail "event" at a racecourse :mad: ****ing hell like

Anyways is it me or did they try hard to paint Brian Lenihan as the knight in shining armor that tried to rescue Ireland

The sooner he is gone the better for all of us.
And no I don't think that is distasteful, I am being perfectly honest something the man in question hasn't.

ei.sdraob wrote: »

Interesting how the they blame the markets aint it? sure its all the Lehman Brothers, have we heard that one before :rolleyes: Other countries that embraced same banking practices and worse like Iceland already got rid of their government (imagine that!), had a referendum and series of enquiries while we here in Ireland continue to sink deeper

They actually brought in the Norwegian-born French financial investigator, Eva Joly who had led the high profile enquiry into Elf, and they included some of her team to do the investigation.

Alwayson wrote: »

Interesting programme but why the need for all the talking heads? There must have been at least 20, the usual suspects, McWilliams, Ross, Power, Cooper etc. Does RTE think we won't believe anything unless we hear it from these "gurus"? Good narration would have done for me. There was even one instance where the camera cut from one guy starting a sentence to McWilliams finishing it. Reminds me of a FAS video editing course I did once.

Do not knock the likes of Ross.
He has indeed done this country and it's citizens some service.

If you think good narration would do then fine, but would you then be complaining asking what so called experts were used to formulate the text for the narrator ?

Speaking of experts, did they have Morgan Kelly on it by any chance.
I missed first bit of the program but wht i saw of it there was nothing new and it tended to ignore some of the stuff, you know like political responsibility.

The sooner the opposition of some sort get in and fillet those f***ers in Donnybrook the better.

Thargor wrote: »

Eh? Who would give a crap outside Ireland?

Perhaps the Germans who may end up paying for this mess ?

Believe it or not little old Ireland can help scupper the Euro, so quiet a number of clued in people outside Ireland would like to really know what was going on here.

Afterall they are being asked to help bail out what is left of the decrepit cesspits called our banks.

Although at this stage most of them probably think we are a bunch of ungrateful chancers ruled by the biggest bunch of chancers in Europe.

dan_d

Slideshowbob wrote: »

Anyone else want to have heard Brian lenihan on phone to French finance minister explaining the bank guarantee to her in french even though she has perfect English? :rolleyes:

To be fair, if he'd been explaining in english, there would have been those giving out that he should have at least tried to speak French.

It's quibbling, and I'm not a fan of FF.;)

Colonel Sanders

An exercise in justification straight from th FF PR department claiming to be a "documentary". It was all those Lehman brothers fault

And I'm not sure if I can face part 2 next week

'You shouldn't be worrying, Taoiseach. Dat's de free market working'

Ali Babba

At the rate this place is sinking it will be a weekly series.....:(

Mick Regan

Personally I find it hard to give any credibility to a Finance Minister / Department that can get a financial estimate wrong by a factor of 20 billion euros or so, and then try to convince us that we shouldn't really be concerned about it.

Slideshowbob

I apologise, it's clear from video below that Brian limboham would have perfect French: :rolleyes:

http://www.google.ie/search?q=après+match+Brian+lenihan&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-gb&client=safari

Nijmegen

The whole thing about speaking French is, did he have to mention it like that? It just came across like a school kid talking up their achievements. "I told her, in French, that..." Great. That makes the world of difference.

thebman

Watched it, kind of disgusted me and made me laugh at the same time TBH.

So it was a Lehman Bros fault ...

Nothing to do at all with the relaxing of financial regulations to cowbow levels.

But sure other countries were doing the same thing ...

Yet somehow didn't end up in as bad a hole as we find ourselves in.

eoinbn

thebman wrote: »

Watched it, kind of disgusted me and made me laugh at the same time TBH.

So it was a Lehman Bros fault ...

Nothing to do at all with the relaxing of financial regulations to cowbow levels.

But sure other countries were doing the same thing ...

Yet somehow didn't end up in as bad a hole as we find ourselves in.

To be fair, it's part one of a two part series and it seems that next week it will focus on why the Irish crash was worse than anywhere else-excessive tax breaks, lax regulation etc.

the_dark_side

Idbatterim wrote: »

I also had to laugh at Lenihan being at a FF event at a racecourse, when he missed the call. Does he not realise the way the public in general see FF! :rolleyes:

yes, initially I thought that this was crazy, it sounds very slack etc. but on reflection, I think Brian Lenihan is being honest in his admission to this, and it is more of a subtle poke at the FF culture by Brian Lenihan... its as if he almost throws his eyes when admitting that this race meeting was a FF event....

although I have only watched 30 minutes of the program, it looks un-unervingly like a post mortem documentary; there is little evidence of political slant or spin so far... it has 'the game is finally up' written al over it

thebman

eoinbn wrote: »

To be fair, it's part one of a two part series and it seems that next week it will focus on why the Irish crash was worse than anywhere else-excessive tax breaks, lax regulation etc.

Yes but that is what actually caused the crash not Lehman Bros. going down so it should have been the first part except they brought up a false reason for it instead.

I imagine it was probably the only way they could get FF people to turn up for it if the second part covers it properly.

MisterAnarchy

thebman wrote: »

Watched it, kind of disgusted me and made me laugh at the same time TBH.

So it was a Lehman Bros fault ...

Nothing to do at all with the relaxing of financial regulations to cowbow levels.

But sure other countries were doing the same thing ...

Yet somehow didn't end up in as bad a hole as we find ourselves in.

They didnt end up in as bad a situation because they didnt have a property bubble and their banks didnt have most of their loans in one specific area,property, unlike the Irish Banks.
The programme explained this,it blamed a number of factors for the banking collapse.
Deregulation allowed the banks to borrow from foreign markets almost at will and in their greed and lust for maximum profit they borrowed far too much money and lent it ,mostly to developers without any proper collateral checks.
It was a recipe for disaster.
The programme blamed the banks,the developers,the Govt and the bank regulator.
I didnt get the opinion that it was Lehmans collapse that caused it all.
Lehmanns collapse was the beginning of the end ,as banks stopped lending to each other out of fear and once the credit tap was turned off,it was only a matter of time before the Irish banks collapsed.
I'd like to have seen the programme examine how much the Govt knew about the Banks behaviour between 2002-2007 but perhaps we will see that next week.

flutered

GSF wrote: »

Bertie next week will claim that nobody warned him. Hopefully they will slice that bit of film next to the one where he tells the cribbers & moaners talking down the economy to go off and commit suicide :mad:If not then this will just be a FF rehab project.

hopefully you did not expect anything else.

GSF

Did I hear right that Lenihan said he didnt recall the call to the Head of the ECB til the next day because he was at a FF event in Killkenny. Is there no mobile signal in KK or was he incapicated? The time delay must surely have been important in a fast moving story but this wasnt explored.

drBill

Does anybody have the quote from Bertie at the end of the program?
It went something along the lines of 'well heh heh once I did ask where the money was coming from ... and I was told dont ask Taoiseach.'

I'd happily pay to have it engraved onto a plaque and mounted outside Leinster House lest we forget.

The Raven.

drBill wrote: »

Does anybody have the quote from Bertie at the end of the program?
It went something along the lines of 'well heh heh once I did ask where the money was coming from ... and I was told dont ask Taoiseach.'

I'd happily pay to have it engraved onto a plaque and mounted outside Leinster House lest we forget.

Bertie Ahern statement at end of Freefall first episode:

‘I remember one day asking the question “was there risk about this?”, and the answer was “You shouldn’t be worrying yourself, Taoiseach,” you know, that’s the free market working and in other words “we’ll stay quiet, Taoiseach.”’

ei.sdraob

The Raven. wrote: »

Bertie Ahern statement at end of Freefall first episode:

‘I remember one day asking the question “was there risk about this?”, and the answer was “You shouldn’t be worrying yourself, Taoiseach,” you know, that’s the free market working and in other words “we’ll stay quiet, Taoiseach.”’

Ah yes blaming everyone but himself

Gus99

GSF wrote: »

Did I hear right that Lenihan said he didnt recall the call to the Head of the ECB til the next day because he was at a FF event in Killkenny. Is there no mobile signal in KK or was he incapicated? The time delay must surely have been important in a fast moving story but this wasnt explored.

My understanding was that the call was made to his office in Leinster House, and it wasn't until the next day (Sunday) that he was in the office and picked up the message. I would have thought there would be some protocol (for private secretaries?) to be monitoring inbound calls out of hours, even remotely?

flutered

Gus99 wrote: »

My understanding was that the call was made to his office in Leinster House, and it wasn't until the next day (Sunday) that he was in the office and picked up the message. I would have thought there would be some protocol (for private secretaries?) to be monitoring inbound calls out of hours, even remotely?

a public servant working out of hours while the boos was away ?.

_Kaiser_

Just caught up on this now via RTE Player... Well put together - the Batman/Dark Knight-esque music thoughout was a bit over the top though... :rolleyes:

Few observations:
- Lenihan is really portrayed as the White Knight of the piece isn't he?
- The admission that he missed the call because he was at a FF race meet in Kilkenny was surprising (that he admitted it), but typical!
- Who cares what language he spoke when he made the call?!
- The spin on the whole show is that FF were duped by AIB and BOI and forced to sign off on the guarantee
- Bertie's comments at the end seems like Part 2 will be more of the same.

Lenihan also says that he knew he wasn't getting the full story, and despite being cautioned against a blanket guarantee by Meryll Lynch, they pressed ahead anyway - effectively in the dark, gambling the nation's future.. which is exactly the mentality that led to the mess in the first place!

Don't forget that Part 2 is on tonight after the 9 o'clock News...

Liam Byrne

The Raven. wrote: »

Bertie Ahern statement at end of Freefall first episode:

‘I remember one day asking the question “was there risk about this?”, and the answer was “You shouldn’t be worrying yourself, Taoiseach,” you know, that’s the free market working and in other words “we’ll stay quiet, Taoiseach.”’

The interesting question is what "risk" he is on about........a risk to his getting found out ?

Saganist

flutered wrote: »

a public servant working out of hours while the boos was away ?.

I do that all the time.

What's the problem ?

ei.sdraob

Omg did Bertie just said what I thought he did?!

"Tis da Lehmans! We we're heading for da soft landing"

Fecking hell this joker! Arrrghhh!!!


Edit: now they're blaming British banks oh boy

Liam Byrne

ei.sdraob wrote: »

Omg did Bertie just said what I thought he did?!

"Tis day Lehmans! We we're heading for day soft landing"

Fecking hell this joker! Arrrghhh!!!

Yup!

Lenihan - surprisingly - told something related to the truth, and then they cut to Ahern contradicting him with the "blame someone else" usual bull****.

Liam Byrne

And now Cowen saying [archive VT] "I'm not going to interfere so don't ask me about it" !!!!!

Pity he didn't "not interfere" in Sept '08!!!

Shower of complete and utter ****!

Interestingly the pro-FF spin seems to be waning, or else it's starting to lay blame on Ahern; he's been on a few times already contradicting the facts and "not accepting that it was a mistake".

Are FF trying to distance themselves from the weasel ? And will the show come good by exposing this, and then go on to show the damage caused by the wrong decisions re Anglo & NAMA ?

Sizzler

Does Bertie actually believe what he says about lehmann brothers or is he just a brilliant method actor? FFS "if Lehmanns didnt fall we would have been grand". Is he for f**king real?

UNBELIEVABLE

ei.sdraob

Liam Byrne wrote: »

And now Cowen saying "I'm not going to interfere so don't ask me about it" !!!!!

Shower of complete and utter ****!

Tis da "builder's fault" says Bertie the blame game goes on.

Dirk Gently

Berties neck is cut from diamonds.