Brian Cody

Nozebleed

Should Brian Cody step aside and let new blood take charge? might be the right time? what he has achieved is amazing.

ShamoBuc

If I were a KK man ( shudder at the very thought ) I would want him there until he has had enough. Pity the man to come after him.

liammur

ShamoBuc wrote: »

If I were a KK man ( shudder at the very thought ) I would want him there until he has had enough. Pity the man to come after him.

I agree, a truly great manager, but with a young tipp team emerging it may be wise to go.

mk6705

I really don't think he should be gotten rid of. He got four in a row.

flag123

The man is a legend to the game!..

Keep him as long as possible. Nobody has managed a team greater than the Kilkenny team in recent years!..With the experience he gained over the years in charge of the cat's may not be gained by the next manager!

Brian017

I think he won't be got rid off but he may decide to go. Whats left for him to achieve???

coffeelover

Was it just me or was he not himself today. I don't think his heart was in it. Maybe it is his time to leave but what he has achieved is amazing.

Kristopherus

I think there are enough young cats around to be a match for anyone for the foreseeable future. I thought there was a very slight hint from the Great Man on the 6.01 news on RTE. Whatever way his decision goes, we should consider ourselves, and by that I mean the General Public, very fortunate to have witnessed his achievements.

djScarey

Brian has been a fantastic manager and has taken the team to dizzy heights never seen by the county before. The question has to be asked: is there enough in this team to beat Tipp next year? I would answer "no." Best for the sweeping brush to be held by a new man with an eye on the 2012 All Ireland. I would love to see Brian take on the manager's job at a county like Dublin, Antrim or Offaly to deepen his credentials.

liammur

coffeelover wrote: »

Was it just me or was he not himself today. I don't think his heart was in it. Maybe it is his time to leave but what he has achieved is amazing.

I think he was overwhelmed by the occasion, he just capitulated. Understandable i suppose given the pressure.

conno16

but sure he was the one who kept saying "it was only another game"

practice what you preach

Dionysus

I wouldn't like to be taking Brian's place. He really is extraordinary.

What I really would like is for Brian Cody to be given some national position for hurling within the GAA. We need to copy across Ireland what he has been doing in Kilkenny. Or at least copy what the organisers of the youth teams in Kilkenny have been doing. The troglodytes can be ignored.

Does anybody know what goes on in the Kilkenny dressing room or with the team? Hurling would be so much stronger if the GAA used Kilkenny organisation as the prototype for each county (I realise this is a bit controversial in terms of "styles" but I really think the general idea is sound).

Nozebleed

djScarey wrote: »

The question has to be asked: is there enough in this team to beat Tipp next year? I would answer "no."

I agree with you here. i think kilkenny reached their peak 3/4 years back..there simply hasn't been a team to challenge them in recent years.

liammur

Nozebleed wrote: »

I agree with you here. i think kilkenny reached their peak 3/4 years back..there simply hasn't been a team to challenge them in recent years.

Yes, I think we have to re-evaluate just how good they are. They beat a shambolic limerick team who were 9 points down within the first 10 minutes in 07 by about 7 points, they hammered a waterford team that suffered a blow-out in 08, and last year should and could have been beaten and now in 2010 they were trounced.

Dionysus

Nozebleed wrote: »

I agree with you here. i think kilkenny reached their peak 3/4 years back..there simply hasn't been a team to challenge them in recent years.

I disagree. In the Cork game Shefflin went off and it didn't make any difference to the match; his substitute and the other substitutes were amazing. KK have a slew of talent in the wings - and that's not even looking at their Minor team.

It would, however, be very good for the game if the Clares, Wexfords and Limericks got back in the game like the late 1990s. Hurling needs that. This Tipp win is very good for the game.

teednab-el

Dionysus wrote: »

I disagree. In the Cork game Shefflin went off and it didn't make any difference to the match; his substitute and the other substitutes were amazing. KK have a slew of talent in the wings - and that's not even looking at their Minor team.

It would, however, be very good for the game if the Clares, Wexfords and Limericks got back in the game like the late 1990s. Hurling needs that. This Tipp win is very good for the game.

Cody should stay on he was a great manager. KK were going to get beaten some day. The drive for five that wasnt to be.

jdooley28

KK have a great bunch coming through the looked very good in the minor game. Cody has instilled a belief in KK that success is the only option and anything less than all-ireland victory is not good enough. If they had sacked him at the start when he didnt win the all-ireland staight we may never had seen the awesome KK team that won 4 in a row. He really needs to stay

BERBA

he should stay on , they might do five in a row in 2015

yahoo_moe

liammur wrote: »

Yes, I think we have to re-evaluate just how good they are. They beat a shambolic limerick team who were 9 points down within the first 10 minutes in 07 by about 7 points, they hammered a waterford team that suffered a blow-out in 08, and last year should and could have been beaten and now in 2010 they were trounced.

They were second best today but it doesn't change how good they've been in the last few years. Or so far this year (certainly defensively anyway).

Tipp weren't there to hammer Limerick or Waterford in those finals so how does today suddenly take away from those achievements? That 2008 final performance was near perfect which had some to do with Waterford but also a lot to do with the incredible levels achieved by this team. No re-evaluation needed.

Fentdog84

Nozebleed wrote: »

Should Brian Cody step aside and let new blood take charge? might be the right time? what he has achieved is amazing.

Definitely he should go! He should come to Waterford..

liammur

yahoo_moe wrote: »

They were second best today but it doesn't change how good they've been in the last few years. Or so far this year (certainly defensively anyway).

Tipp weren't there to hammer Limerick or Waterford in those finals so how does today suddenly take away from those achievements? That 2008 final performance was near perfect which had some to do with Waterford but also a lot to do with the incredible levels achieved by this team. No re-evaluation needed.

Well they were trounced today, and fairly lucky last year, so maybe we all got just a little carried away.

GG21057

Any idea why he took TJ Reid off? Seemed a strange move as he (Reid) was playing well, and scoring, at that time.

Diabhal Beag

Whatever you think about Kilkenny you have to have a huge respect for one of the greatest managers in any sport. It's a shame more people in other countries won't understand his achievements throughout the years.

Fentdog84

Diabhal Beag wrote: »

Whatever you think about Kilkenny you have to have a huge respect for one of the greatest managers in any sport. It's a shame more people in other countries won't understand his achievements throughout the years.

Who cares what people in other countries think? Soccer is lost in overpaid prima donnas & reality TV. What we have in hurling is a real sport full of skil,l excitment & commitment. You saw how much it meant to those guys playing today. They all put their bodys on the line in a way you couldnt imagine professional athletes even contemplating(except boxers maybe!).

liammur

Diabhal Beag wrote: »

Whatever you think about Kilkenny you have to have a huge respect for one of the greatest managers in any sport. It's a shame more people in other countries won't understand his achievements throughout the years.

Cody went down in my estimation today. He capitulated under the pressure. Made some disastrous decisions, but in fairness, he has done wonders for KK hurling over the last decade.

Dionysus

liammur wrote: »

Cody went down in my estimation today. He capitulated under the pressure. Made some disastrous decisions

Harsh; as harsh as, say, 'hurler on the ditch'.

riffmongous

liammur wrote: »

Well they were trounced today, and fairly lucky last year, so maybe we all got just a little carried away.

:rolleyes:
you lose one match in 5 years and all of a sudden you're rubbish, its one of the great sporting cliches

liammur

Dionysus wrote: »

Harsh; as harsh as, say, 'hurler on the ditch'.

Nothing harsh about it, he just flopped on the biggest day of all.

jonnybravo

Personally can't see him leaving and KK will be a major force next year. Probably be a few changes with the likes of Eddie Brennan and a few of the other older players going but the talent they have on the subs bench and from their underage structurs KK will be a force for many years. If you look at their team most of their team is young enough to play on for a good few more years.

igas

liammur wrote: »

Yes, I think we have to re-evaluate just how good they are. They beat a shambolic limerick team who were 9 points down within the first 10 minutes in 07 by about 7 points, they hammered a waterford team that suffered a blow-out in 08, and last year should and could have been beaten and now in 2010 they were trounced.

Such rubbish!! First defeat in 5 years, recognised by anyone who knows anything about hurling as the best team ever, now you reckon they got lucky! And already talk of getting rid of Cody! Fickle idiots!

Tipp stepped up to Kilkenny's standards today and surpassed it - fair play to them. If the other teams stepped up to the same mark then we might have more competition in hurling - not whinging about penalties and "blowouts"

allthedoyles

coffeelover wrote: »

Was it just me or was he not himself today. I don't think his heart was in it. Maybe it is his time to leave but what he has achieved is amazing.

Not you - he certainly did'nt seem to be his usual self - Nor did half the Kilkenny team -

Maybe he did get some tactics wrong too - KK seem to focus on themselves too much . -
I bet Sheedy done way more homework than Coady .

Is it right to take off proven goalscorers ( EB ) just because they seem to be having an off day ?

I think he should be left in charge for another few years - Its payback time !

Ian_K

allthedoyles wrote: »

Not you - he certainly did'nt seem to be his usual self - Nor did half the Kilkenny team

They wouldnt be used to losing you see, didnt know how to deal with it

allthedoyles wrote: »

Is it right to take off proven goalscorers ( EB ) just because they seem to be having an off day?

Brennan goes missing in finals far to often - he didnt score at all against Cork in the 00's. When its not going right for him he may as well not be there at all

overmantle

Kilkenny are a great team, no question about it.

Having said that, Kilkenny have had an easier ride to the final for years than the Munster teams and haven't had to come out of second gear, allowing them to peak in September.

If Cork hadn't their internal problems, they should have won another one or two All-Irelands since 2005 and Tipp should have won last year, so maybe all this 'Drive For 5' was a bit O.T.T.

Le King

I think Cody has nothing left to achieve, he has been one of the greatest, if not the greatest, hurling manager of all-time.


I think he will call time on his Kilkenny tenure. I doubt he would announce it over the next few days as he is a man of great decency and wouldn't want to take away anything from the back pages that Tipp deserve over the next few days.

overmantle

Le King wrote: »

I think Cody has nothing left to achieve, he has been one of the greatest, if not the greatest, hurling manager of all-time.


I think he will call time on his Kilkenny tenure. I doubt he would announce it over the next few days as he is a man of great decency and wouldn't want to take away anything from the back pages that Tipp deserve over the next few days.

I agree.

liammur

overmantle wrote: »

I agree.

Sheedy completely out-foxed him today, so perhaps his time is up alright.

liammur

liammur wrote: »

Sheedy completely out-foxed him today, so perhaps his time is up alright.

Ah now come on the guy is a pure genius and had it not being for him setting the standards over the years we may not have had the quality in the last 2 finals we have had.

I salute Cody and kilkenny for being the great ambassadors of the game they have been

liammur

Deleted User wrote: »

Ah now come on the guy is a pure genius and had it not being for him setting the standards over the years we may not have had the quality in the last 2 finals we have had.

I salute Cody and kilkenny for being the great ambassadors of the game they have been

Cody has done wonders for KK, but he crumbled on the biggest day. I rate him very highly but was a little disappointed today.

overmantle

He's a motivated and motivating manager, no question about it. Hurling is THE religion in Kilkenny and it's a case of eat, sleep and drink hurling in Kilkenny. From that point of view, with a huge pool of talent and hunger from which to choose, Cody's job is a lot easier than managers elsewhere. Perhaps it is time for Cody to call it a day but I can't see it happening as Kilkenny always seem to want more and more and more.

hinault

People pushing the KK panic button already.

First championship game that KK have lost since 2005 and people are suggesting that the manager should go?
Extraordinary.

The man is the most successful manager ever because, given this era, his teams have dominated everyone.
On that record alone, I think he deserves a lot of respect.

His record is phenomenal.

rebel girl 15

Dionysus wrote: »

I wouldn't like to be taking Brian's place. He really is extraordinary.

What I really would like is for Brian Cody to be given some national position for hurling within the GAA. We need to copy across Ireland what he has been doing in Kilkenny. Or at least copy what the organisers of the youth teams in Kilkenny have been doing. The troglodytes can be ignored.

Does anybody know what goes on in the Kilkenny dressing room or with the team? Hurling would be so much stronger if the GAA used Kilkenny organisation as the prototype for each county (I realise this is a bit controversial in terms of "styles" but I really think the general idea is sound).

Why not? Why wouldn't you want to? The hurling coaching structure down there is excellent, with talent coming through every year, they won the junior title as well as the minor this year. There is huge work being done to promote hurling in weaker counties, most noticibly in Dublin, and you can see the dividends with the progress of the senior team! I don't see why a KK template will work in other counties, you have so many variables, like football being a predominant gaelic sport in other counties. I don't think Cody would go for a national position tbh, he comes across as a shy guy, and if he does go, I think he would prefer to take a break from the game, I couldn't see him going to another county to coach a senior team, though I maybe wrong. Paudie Butler is doing some fantastic work for hurling as the National development officer.

the underage structures and structure of the CB suit KK, but wouldn't suit other counties imo

jdooley28 wrote: »

KK have a great bunch coming through the looked very good in the minor game. Cody has instilled a belief in KK that success is the only option and anything less than all-ireland victory is not good enough. If they had sacked him at the start when he didnt win the all-ireland staight we may never had seen the awesome KK team that won 4 in a row. He really needs to stay

See, it wasn't all about Cody instilling belief really - its instilled by every manager the KK players have, that when they pull on that KK jersey, they don't lose, that they are the better team out there. That goes from underage right up. There is an kind of arrogance about it, but I see why it would be instilled in players.

KK have had great motivational factors over the years as well, to do it for a certain player one year or another, and I think Cody took that away today by playing Shefflin. It went away from his thing of starting players going well in training and who were fit, and that there were no superstars on the team, that no one player would be accommodated for their name. It was clear from training that Shefflin wasn't fit enough to play. If he wasn't playing, then the lads would be looking to do it for him, which kinda brings a sense of hunger back again, and takes their minds away from five in a row. The possibility of him pulling up while playing was a big one, and him coming off would always be a huge blow to KK, and hand Tipp an initiative. But Cody could have held Shefflin in reserve, bring him on for the last 10/15 minutes, which would be a huge boost to all the KK players? Why wasn't that option explored?

Annuv

Liammur

Would you compare to eleborate on the following posts that you've already made in this thread alone?. You're clearly an expert, so I'm interested to know what you would have done different to a manager that has guided his team to 7 all-irelands in a decade?


"Cody went down in my estimation today. He capitulated under the pressure"

"Made some disastrous decisions, but in fairness, he has done wonders for KK hurling over the last decade"

"Nothing harsh about it, he just flopped on the biggest day of all"

liammur

Annuv wrote: »

Liammur

Would you compare to eleborate on the following posts that you've already made in this thread alone?. You're clearly an expert, so I'm interested to know what you would have done different to a manager that has guided his team to 7 all-irelands in a decade?


"Cody went down in my estimation today. He capitulated under the pressure"

"Made some disastrous decisions, but in fairness, he has done wonders for KK hurling over the last decade"

"Nothing harsh about it, he just flopped on the biggest day of all"

Starting with shefflin smacked of desperation, would he last 5 or 15 mins was the question.Team seemed to have no backup plan to the inevitable.
Taking off TJ Reid, the 1 player who looked like he could do something.
Not man marking Corbett, who almost beat KK by himself.

Min

liammur wrote: »

Starting with shefflin smacked of desperation, would he last 5 or 15 mins was the question.Team seemed to have no backup plan to the inevitable.
Taking off TJ Reid, the 1 player who looked like he could do something.
Not man marking Corbett, who almost beat KK by himself.

The back up was Michael Rice and he played well.

Martin567

Le King wrote: »

I think Cody has nothing left to achieve, he has been one of the greatest, if not the greatest, hurling manager of all-time.


I think he will call time on his Kilkenny tenure. I doubt he would announce it over the next few days as he is a man of great decency and wouldn't want to take away anything from the back pages that Tipp deserve over the next few days.

Could be wrong but I can see Brian Cody doing another 10 years with Kilkenny. I think he will relish the challenge of freshening the panel and turning the tables on Tipp over the next few years. The underage structures are there and there has been lots of success at minor & U21 in the last few years. Some of these lads just need to be brought through as some of the Tipp lads have now had a big head start in experience of top level hurling.

liammur

Martin567 wrote: »

Could be wrong but I can see Brian Cody doing another 10 years with Kilkenny. I think he will relish the challenge of freshening the panel and turning the tables on Tipp over the next few years. The underage structures are there and there has been lots of success at minor & U21 in the last few years. Some of these lads just need to be brought through as some of the Tipp lads have now had a big head start in experience of top level hurling.

I'd say he'll go. Must be getting tired of it. Pressure seriously got to him but the decision should be his and he def shouldn't be sacked.

hinault

liammur wrote: »

I'd say he'll go. Must be getting tired of it. Pressure seriously got to him but the decision should be his and he def shouldn't be sacked.

If he chooses to go, so be it.

I hope that if he does make that choice that it is not as a result of naysayers like you influencing his decision.

I have no axe to grind here, I'm a dub living in Tipp.

But for people to start blaming the manager in this instance is crazy talk.
Sport always throws up these situations.
And it's far easier to deal with success than (mis) perceived failure.
Yesterday wasn't about KK failing, it was about Tipp succeeding.

I'm sure several of the Tipp supporters who are talking about capitulation are only doing so out of banter.

Anyone that I have spoken to in Tipp about hurling would always have respect for Cody and the team that he has built and the achievements that he earned.

Dionysus

Deleted User wrote: »

I salute Cody and kilkenny for being the great ambassadors of the game they have been

And are.

Dionysus

Dionysus wrote: »

And are.

ah relax there buddy i've said on other threads ye'll be back soon and that next years championship will be very interesting. i meant ye have been great ambassadors up to present and im sure will continue to set standards but ye might have to share with us now for a bit

igas

Last year Tipp matched Kilkenny's intensity for 60 minutes and lost out in the last 10. Disputed penalty or not there was a 5 point gap in the end. This year they produced a mammoth performance and surpassed KK's intensity for all 75 minutes. Credit to them they deserved it and other teams now have to step up to this new level.

I think Cody perhaps got distracted by the injury crisis in the buildup and didn't spend enough time planning how to counteract Tipps tactics - particularily Lar Corbett. Henry's presence, distribution, and ball winning were a huge loss. The forwards were headless without him, as they were to a lesser extent against Cork when he went off. Cody had to play him if Henry thought he was up to it.

I see 3 main options for Cody:

1. Get stuck into rebuilding the players and the team and get back to win next year just to prove he can recover from this knockback
2. Retire in honour. This man owes KK hurling nothing and has given KK its finest decade not to talk of being a fantastic ambassador of the game and for KK hurling
3. Maybe spread the hurling faith - go manage a Carlow or a Laois or some team where hurling needs a messiah to bring it on a bit

I believe and hope he will go for no.1 as he is a true hurling man and will want to proove his ability to recover from this defeat.

liammur

igas wrote: »

I think Cody perhaps got distracted by the injury crisis in the buildup and didn't spend enough time planning how to counteract Tipps tactics - particularily Lar Corbett. Henry's presence, distribution, and ball winning were a huge loss. The forwards were headless without him, as they were to a lesser extent against Cork when he went off. Cody had to play him if Henry thought he was up to it.

I agree with most of your post. However, I heard Cody saying beforehand that KK were only concentrating on their OWN game. I thought this was very foolish and incredibly naive given that tipp out-hurled them for large periods of the game last year, and only came into it when tipp had a man sent off.
That tactic was fine against lesser teams like cork, but surely he should have had a planning for the likes of corbett etc.