5 in a row-Impossible to achieve.

liammur

Seems like 5 in a row will probably never be achieved now.

KK crumbling under the pressure, but were great champions.
But well done to Tipp, different class.

johnmcdnl

might happen again in 30-40 years time but won't happen again for a long long time

the pressure is just was just so so immense on kk today and it showed

flash1080

They bottled it.

flash1080

flash1080 wrote: »

They bottled it.

BS.

Tipp just better today.

To call them bottlers is highly ignorant.

Diabhal Beag

Kilkenny are still the greatest team I've ever seen regardless of the 5 in a row. Tipp were the better team.

liammur

I'd agree if they won the 5 in a row, but unfortunately they flopped.

Brian017

My God Tipp were simply immense today played the best hurling team we've ever seen off the pitch and are truly deserving champions!

As a Kilkenny person, I can have no qualms about the result. I'm just glad it was a great Tipp that stopped us. Fair play Tipp and enjoy the next 2 nights you deserve it!

Itssoeasy

I'm convinced there is a jink on the thing. Five times it's been on and five times the teams have failed.
Wexford 1916-1919
Kerry 1929 - 1932
Cork 1941- 1944
Kerry 1978 - 1981
Killkenny 2006 - 2009.

Brian017

liammur wrote: »

I'd agree if they won the 5 in a row, but unfortunately they flopped.

I'm sorry but thats just BS. Any team that wins one is a great time in my eyes. Never mind 2, 3 and 4 in a row. Seriously :rolleyes:

liammur

Itssoeasy wrote: »

I'm convinced there is a jink on the thing. Five times it's been on and five times the teams have failed.
Wexford 1916-1919
Kerry 1929 - 1932
Cork 1941- 1944
Kerry 1978 - 1981
Killkenny 2006 - 2009.

Yes, the 5 in a row remains elusive.
I was going to bet on KK doing it back in 2006, so in a way i'm pleased they didn't do it!

liammur

Brian017 wrote: »

I'm sorry but thats just BS. Any team that wins one is a great time in my eyes. Never mind 2, 3 and 4 in a row. Seriously :rolleyes:

No one said they aren't a great team, but to be called the best ever they had to achieve the 5 in a row.

johnmcdnl

I think that if the pressure of 5 in a row - greatest team ever etc etc wasn't there today that kk would have won it...

had kk met tipp i reckon they'd have won - but the pressure got to them...

it was always just about the 5 in a row from the start of the championship this year...

delta_bravo

liammur wrote: »

Yes, the 5 in a row remains elusive.
I was going to bet on KK doing it back in 2006, so in a way i'm pleased they didn't do it!

I remember hearing at the last game that someone stood to win about €50,000 if KK won today for a 5 in a row bet. Harsh

liammur

delta_bravo wrote: »

I remember hearing at the last game that someone stood to win about €50,000 if KK won today for a 5 in a row bet. Harsh

If that was the case though, they could easily have hedged their position by putting say €10K on tipp today at good odds.

pakalasa

As Mr. Franlkin said, nothing is certain in this life only death and taxes.

Fair play to Tipp, the greater hunger won it for them in the end.

ShamoBuc

liammur wrote: »

If that was the case though, they could easily have hedged their position by putting say €10K on tipp today at good odds.

could have ended in a draw though!

I'm glad to see KK did not do the 5 in a row. Yes they are a savage team but I have always felt they 'got away with' too much. That said if they win the next 5.... I personally do not think the 5 in a row will ever be done - in either code.

liammur

ShamoBuc wrote: »

could have ended in a draw though!

I'm glad to see KK did not do the 5 in a row. Yes they are a savage team but I have always felt they 'got away with' too much. That said if they win the next 5.... I personally do not think the 5 in a row will ever be done - in either code.

Wouldn't that just be your luck, a draw!

I agree, don't think the 5 will be ever done now.

Dermotsull13

ShamoBuc wrote: »

could have ended in a draw though!

I'm glad to see KK did not do the 5 in a row. Yes they are a savage team but I have always felt they 'got away with' too much. That said if they win the next 5.... I personally do not think the 5 in a row will ever be done - in either code.

If he was hedging it he surely would have gone for Tipp to win the championship outright and not just the game. Take the draw out of the equation. Especially with that amount of money at stake

ROCKMAN

If this Kilkenny team couldn't do it ,I find it hard to believe that any team can do it ,to be honest .

teednab-el

ROCKMAN wrote: »

If this Kilkenny team couldn't do it ,I find it hard to believe that any team can do it ,to be honest .

No team will. This Kilkenny team were a certainty and they failed.

Dionysus

liammur wrote: »

No one said they aren't a great team, but to be called the best ever they had to achieve the 5 in a row.

No they didn't; they just had to be considered better than any previous teams.

Fentdog84

Tipp supporters will probably start talking about doing 5 in a row next. I hope we draw them in munster next year & send them home with their tails between their legs..;)

liammur

Dionysus wrote: »

No they didn't; they just had to be considered better than any previous teams.

If they had won the 5 in a row, hurling immortality. Now, as we look on it we realise they were very lucky to win last year and were trounced this year so no one can claim they are better than the cork team which won 4 in a row.

rebel girl 15

liammur wrote: »

Wouldn't that just be your luck, a draw!

I agree, don't think the 5 will be ever done now.

Is that just in hurling, or in football as well?

Itssoeasy wrote: »

I'm convinced there is a jink on the thing. Five times it's been on and five times the teams have failed.
Wexford 1916-1919
Kerry 1929 - 1932
Cork 1941- 1944
Kerry 1978 - 1981
Killkenny 2006 - 2009.

Just in the mens game though it hasn't been done. 9 in a row was done by the Kerry ladies footballers from 82-90, 10 in camogie by Dublin from 57-66, and 5 in a row from the Cork footballers from 05-09 (beating different opponents in each of those finals!) It does show that its not impossible to do, but it takes a bit of luck and a lot of hunger to keep going every year!

If the ladies can do in, and in recent times, then I don't see why a men's team cannot do it sometime in the future.

Colm R

It does seem impossible. You could argue that if it wasn't raining yesterday, Sheflin was not injured and a load of other things were different, then we might have a 5 in a row today.

But on the simple law of averages, it is highly unlikley that amature players can maintain hunger, fitness, health and skill for 5 consecutive years.

Well done to Kilkenny - the best team in my lifetime.

People might say they are now not better than the Cork team of the 40s or in football, the Kerry team of the 80s. But they are not in bad company!!!

Shazanne

Fentdog84 wrote: »

Tipp supporters will probably start talking about doing 5 in a row next. I hope we draw them in munster next year & send them home with their tails between their legs..;)

I'm from Tipp and we are celebrating big time - great game, great win, well deserved! We're not talking about 5 in a row at this point. I think we have just won the most important game in our history!
But we know what it is to lose and have our tails between our legs and I can tell you we did so with dignity! There was a Kilkenny supporter behind me yesterday who was so obnoxious I could have punched him! He started off chanting "KK for a Se" (Kilkenny for the six, in case your Gaeilge not's too good!), and that was before the game had started, but when they tide turned he demanded that the Tipp supporters in front of him not even stand up to cheer our goals! Then (being the true sportsman that he was) he walked out before the game ended! Sadly, his aggression was not the only behavious like that that I saw! What a shame!

ShamoBuc

ShamoBuc wrote: »

could have ended in a draw though!

.

Anyone with half a brain and loads of cash coming off a docket would lay their selection on betfair.

Back to the game, KK didn't seem to turn up really, playing Sheflin was a huge mistake, seeing him come off so early did the other players huge damage. they had too many wides early in the game too, the goal chance should have been buried.

hinault

I wouldn't say that the 5 in a row will never be done.

if any team were going to do it, it would have been this KK in my opinion.

Brian017

Brian017 wrote: »

My God Tipp were simply immense today played the best hurling team we've ever seen off the pitch and are truly deserving champions!

As a Kilkenny person, I can have no qualms about the result. I'm just glad it was a great Tipp that stopped us. Fair play Tipp and enjoy the next 2 nights you deserve it!

Fair play Brian. A good sporting comment. Tipp might'nt be at half the level they are at had it not being for the excellence of this KK team. We may have won the battle yesterday but the war goes on.......;)

liammur

Colm R wrote: »

It does seem impossible. You could argue that if it wasn't raining yesterday, Sheflin was not injured and a load of other things were different, then we might have a 5 in a row today.

But on the simple law of averages, it is highly unlikley that amature players can maintain hunger, fitness, health and skill for 5 consecutive years.

Well done to Kilkenny - the best team in my lifetime.

People might say they are now not better than the Cork team of the 40s or in football, the Kerry team of the 80s. But they are not in bad company!!!

That Cork team was hurling, not football. In addition, what most people DON'T know is that they didn't win a munster final for 1 of those years.

gmale

liammur wrote: »

That Cork team was hurling, not football. In addition, what most people DON'T know is that they didn't win a munster final for 1 of those years.

It was a walkover? The other team didnt turn up? Still though, a walkover in the provincial doesnt take from winning the entire championship!

liammur

gmale wrote: »

It was a walkover? The other team didnt turn up? Still though, a walkover in the provincial doesnt take from winning the entire championship!

I rate the current KK team as better, but have a read and you can decide for yourself.

By one important measure the Cork team of the 1940s is regarded as one of the two greatest teams of all-time. They are one of only two teams to win four All-Ireland hurling titles in-a-row (the other being the Kilkenny team of 2006 to 2009). Many of the team's detractors, however, have questioned the worth of these championship victories as Cork lost the 1941 Munster championship and overcame a Dublin team that was not as great as it had once been, and an Antrim team who only got into the final because Kilkenny and Tipp could not play due to an out break of foot and mouth disease. The story of this Cork team's success is bookended by defeats in two classic All-Ireland finals, those of 1939 and 1947. The former has come to be known as the "thunder and lightning final." On the day before World War II broke out, Cork faced a Kilkenny side who were playing in their fourth final in five years. The game was played at a frantic pace with both sides remaining level for much of the game. Just as the game reached its climax a crack of thunder interrupted the play and the rain bucketed down. After a tense battle Kilkenny emerged victorious by a solitary point.
In 1941 an optimistic Cork were buoyed up for an All-Ireland victory that had eluded them since 1931. A bizarre turn of events, however, would eventually allow Cork to be declared champions but would also cast doubt over the value of their victory. An outbreak of foot-and-mouth disease in the midlands forced Tipperary and Kilkenny to withdraw from the competition. As a result Cork faced Limerick in the Munster final, and defeated them, before hammering Dublin in the All-Ireland decider for one of the handiest championships ever won. Following the All-Ireland final Cork played Tipperary in the delayed Munster final and lost, thus becoming the very first All-Ireland champions but provincial runners-up. For these reasons Cork's first win of four in-a-row is often dismissed by their opponents.
In 1942 Cork set out to prove that their victory had not been a fluke caused by outside events. They defeated Tipperary in the Munster final and silenced their critics, before going on to claim their second consecutive All-Ireland title by defeating Dublin once again. In 1943 Cork were once again Munster champions and qualified for the All-Ireland final where their opponents were expected to be Kilkenny. The "cats", however, were surprisingly defeated by Antrim, a junior team, in the All-Ireland semi-final. Cork went on to record a comprehensive victory over the Ulstermen in the final and claim a third consecutive All-Ireland victory. In 1944 Cork were once again Munster champions, defeating Mick Mackey's Limerick side in the decider. They just about prevented an upset in the All-Ireland semi-final, squeezing past Galway before walloping their old enemy Dublin in the final. Cork were on their best form in that final, and set a record of four All-Ireland titles in-a-row that has since been equaled by Kilkenny. However, since Corks victory in 1941 was tarnished by their loss in the delayed 1941 Munster final, Kilkennys 4 in a row is more highly regarded.
Five All-Ireland titles in-a-row was beyond this Cork team as they were defeated in the 1945 Munster final. They returned in 1946, however, winning back their Munster crown and defeating Kilkenny in the All-Ireland final. It was one of the great one-man shows by Christy Ring who, at the age of 25, collected his fifth All-Ireland winners medal. In 1947 Cork were playing in their sixth All-Ireland final of the decade. In what has been described as the greatest All-Ireland Hurling Final of all-time the Leesiders were defeated by a single point. This defeat brought an end to the unprecedented run of success of the Cork team of the 1940s.

marco_polo

Diabhal Beag wrote: »

Kilkenny are still the greatest team I've ever seen regardless of the 5 in a row. Tipp were the better team.

liammur wrote: »

I'd agree if they won the 5 in a row, but unfortunately they flopped.

liammur wrote: »

I rate the current KK team as better, but have a read and you can decide for yourself.

So if the greatest team of all time in you opinon is neither the current Kilkenny team or the Cork team of the 1940s either, then who is?

liammur

marco_polo wrote: »

So if the greatest team of all time in you opinon is neither the current Kilkenny team or the Cork team of the 1940s either, then who is?

That's my point, i'm not sure we can say with any degree of certainty what the best team is. Suffice to say, they're all great teams. But if/when a team does achieve 5 in a row, that will eliminate a lot of the uncertainty & debate.

Min

marco_polo wrote: »

So if the greatest team of all time in you opinon is neither the current Kilkenny team or the Cork team of the 1940s either, then who is?

It could be the one time all Ireland hurling winners - London

Min

liammur wrote: »

That's my point, i'm not sure we can say with any degree of certainty what the best team is. Suffice to say, they're all great teams. But if/when a team does achieve 5 in a row, that will eliminate a lot of the uncertainty & debate.

How many teams have been in 8 all-Ireland finals in a 9 year period and won 6 of them?

Magi11

liammur wrote: »

I'd agree if they won the 5 in a row, but unfortunately they flopped.

The level of ignorance on these boards sometimes defies belief.

liammur

Min wrote: »

How many teams have been in 8 all-Ireland finals in a 9 year period and won 6 of them?

You miss some key points.

Hurling is at all time low now, 2, maximum 3 teams capable of winning the all ireland. KK were badly shown up yesterday and I was for KK if any team, altho i admit it was good to see tipp win too.
But I simply couldn't believe how easily tipp swatted them away.

Manic Preacher

liammur wrote: »

Seems like 5 in a row will probably never be achieved now.

KK crumbling under the pressure, but were great champions.
But well done to Tipp, different class.

Kerry were seconds away from doing in in '82 so it's definitely possible. It just hasn't happened yet. It will happen but it could take 50, 100 maybe even 200 years.

liammur

Manic Preacher wrote: »

Kerry were seconds away from doing in in '82 so it's definitely possible. It just hasn't happened yet. It will happen but it could take 50, 100 maybe even 200 years.

Well in fairness Kerry were much closer to it than KK, altho i think they did have a few minutes left after the goal but fell just short.

Flukey

Don't forget that it is a county, not a team that does 5 in a row. The starting 15 for Kilkenny yesterday was different than the one that started the 2006 final. The same could be said for Kerry in 1978 and 1982. Kilkenny won 4 in a row and those were good teams, not team. Kerry had good teams from 1978 to 1982, not just one team.

Both counties have players coming through all the time, so if a county is to do 5 in a row, it has to have a strong panel and a ready supply of coming players. There are only a few counties in each code that have that, and they are always there or thereabouts when the silverware is handed out at provincial and All-Ireland level. This time next year we may well be discussing how Kilkenny have won 5 out of the last 6 finals and it won't be a brand new team, as many would then be describing it. It'll have many of the players that lined out yesterday. Don't forget too that a number of yesterday's Tipperary players were winning their second senior All-Ireland, so in that regard even Tipperary didn't have a new team yesterday. The talent has been coming through at the U21 and minor level in the past few years, so it would be expected that they would come through.

Even though the margin was comfortable yesterday, Kilkenny had some very good goal chances that they didn't take, opting for points or in at least one case, missing the target. It is on such things that matches turn. So like Kerry, Tyrone and a few others, though they may be out for this year, Kilkenny are far from gone. It would be nice to see none of the big 3 in Hurling win next year, but we could be back here reflecting on a Kilkenny victory on the Monday after next year's Hurling final.

liammur

Flukey wrote: »

It would be nice to see none of the big 3 in Hurling win next year, but we could be back here reflecting on a Kilkenny victory on the Monday after next year's Hurling final.

Agreed, it's what hurling needs. I think we can rule cork out anyway.

WallyGUFC

liammur wrote: »

No one said they aren't a great team, but to be called the best ever they had to achieve the 5 in a row.

Have you been around for the last 126 years to see all hurling teams? Theoretically you can't say which team was the best ever but you can safely assume this KK team are very very near the top.

liammur

WallyGUFC wrote: »

Have you been around for the last 126 years to see all hurling teams? Theoretically you can't say which team was the best ever but you can safely assume this KK team are very very near the top.

You are agreeing with me, whether you know it or not.

Columbia

flash1080 wrote: »

They bottled it.

Ah yeah, 4-in-a-row champions, one of the greatest GAA teams we've seen, total bottlers after losing one game though :rolleyes:

Stinicker

May I remind people that Kerry took a year to recover in 1983 and then went on to dominate with another three-In-a-row in 1984,1985 and 1986. Arguably only for Darbys Goal, Kerry would have won nine All-Ireland finals in a row as did our ladies football team.

That Kerry team was the greatest ever GAA team in a time when Dublin and Cork had such great teams either of them could have won 4 or five in a row were it not for Kerry.

Kerry with luck and proper reffing could have won five in a row this decade but Tyrone remained a counter balance to our complete and utter domination.

Kilkenny won 4 in a row in a time of great Hurling weakness throughout Ireland, their 4th title was handed to them by the referee last year. While it was an achievement, I am sorry but they are not the greatest Hurling team ever. Yesterday was the day and last years subsequent robbery was the rock upon which Kilkenny's ultimate achievement perished on.

History will judge Kilkenny as the team that could have been unique and special, instead they were shown to be far from special and the hype was exposed. Kerry were robbed in 1982, Kilkenny were hammered 28 years later, the 5 in a row will never be achieved I feel and if it is I am sure it will be Kerry who will do it on our third attempt.

liammur

Stinicker wrote: »

May I remind people that Kerry took a year to recover in 1983 and then went on to dominate with another three-In-a-row in 1984,1985 and 1986. Arguably only for Darbys Goal, Kerry would have won nine All-Ireland finals in a row as did our ladies football team.

That Kerry team was the greatest ever GAA team in a time when Dublin and Cork had such great teams either of them could have won 4 or five in a row were it not for Kerry.

Kerry with luck and proper reffing could have won five in a row this decade but Tyrone remained a counter balance to our complete and utter domination.

Kilkenny won 4 in a row in a time of great Hurling weakness throughout Ireland, their 4th title was handed to them by the referee last year. While it was an achievement, I am sorry but they are not the greatest Hurling team ever. Yesterday was the day and last years subsequent robbery was the rock upon which Kilkenny's ultimate achievement perished on.

History will judge Kilkenny as the team that could have been unique and special, instead they were shown to be far from special and the hype was exposed. Kerry were robbed in 1982, Kilkenny were hammered 28 years later, the 5 in a row will never be achieved I feel and if it is I am sure it will be Kerry who will do it on our third attempt.

I agree with your hurling analysis, however, your football is way off.
Kerry beat poor teams in mayo and cork, when they met serious opposition in the form of armagh and tyrone, they hit the rocks, highlighting a serious weakness that was once again ruthlessly exposed by another northern team this year.

homerjay2005

liammur wrote: »

Kerry beat poor teams in mayo and cork, when they met serious opposition in the form of armagh and tyrone, they hit the rocks, highlighting a serious weakness that was once again ruthlessly exposed by another northern team this year.

i think youd should do some research, cos its clear you do not realise the following -

since 2000, we played armagh 4 times and only lost only once, beating them along the way to winning all ireland in 2000 and 2006.

yes tyrone beat us in 2 finals, but they themselves have not even got to 2 finals in a row, even struggled to get a run of semis. they had many off years and only seemed capable of coming good every 3 years. its very easy to have a pop at kerry, when they were the team to beat every year bar 1, in 10 years.

of the 6 all irelands we won in the last 12 years, we beat ulster opposition along the way every year.

semi - cavan (champions) 97.
semi - armagh (champions) 2000.
semi - derry 2004
1/4 - armagh (champions) 2006
1/4 - monaghan 2007 & 2008 in qual rd 4. (they were beaten finalists one of those years i think, perhaps 2007)
qual rd 4 - antrim (beaten finalists) 2009.
we also beat fermanagh in 2002, so of the 8 ulster teams we played in the current era, we only failed to beat 2. hardly a bad record.

as regards this year, kerry were never winning that 1/4 final, no matter who they were drawn against, such were the circumstances going into this game. i.e. losing O Se, Galvin and Reidy before the game and then Declan Sullivan and Quirke getting injured in the first 1/4.

liammur

homerjay2005 wrote: »

i think youd should do some research, cos its clear you do not realise the following -

since 2000, we played armagh 4 times and only lost only once, beating them along the way to winning all ireland in 2000 and 2006.

yes tyrone beat us in 2 finals, but they themselves have not even got to 2 finals in a row, even struggled to get a run of semis. they had many off years and only seemed capable of coming good every 3 years. its very easy to have a pop at kerry, when they were the team to beat every year bar 1, in 10 years.

of the 6 all irelands we won in the last 12 years, we beat ulster opposition along the way every year.

semi - cavan (champions) 97.
semi - armagh (champions) 2000.
semi - derry 2004
1/4 - armagh (champions) 2006
1/4 - monaghan 2007 & 2008 in qual rd 4. (they were beaten finalists one of those years i think, perhaps 2007)
qual rd 4 - antrim (beaten finalists) 2009.
we also beat fermanagh in 2002, so of the 8 ulster teams we played in the current era, we only failed to beat 2. hardly a bad record.

as regards this year, kerry were never winning that 1/4 final, no matter who they were drawn against, such were the circumstances going into this game. i.e. losing O Se, Galvin and Reidy before the game and then Declan Sullivan and Quirke getting injured in the first 1/4.

When the pressure is cranked up on all ireland final day, mayo and cork were beaten by the sight of the kerry jersey.
Kerry likewise folded when they faced the northerners in the finals. For this reason alone, I don't rate the current kerry team too highly.

teednab-el

teednab-el wrote: »

No team will. This Kilkenny team were a certainty and they failed.

if KK met anyone bar tipp in the final then i think it was 5 in a row time in fairness. Theyd have pure walloped whoever else. instead they met a team who they knew they were near their level and perhaps a bit of jitters set in the team.

liammur

Deleted User wrote: »

if KK met anyone bar tipp in the final then i think it was 5 in a row time in fairness. Theyd have pure walloped whoever else. instead they met a team who they knew they were near their level and perhaps a bit of jitters set in the team.

I would agree, they didn't want tipp. But they were so poor on the day galway could have done a number on them as well.