Citizens Arrest

jamieh

Hi all,

After someone trying to arrest Tony Blair in Easons under 'citizens arrest' (only in Ireland :rolleyes:)...can someone explain exactly what citizens arrest is?

Can we all just go around arresting each other or wha?

Wolfe Tone

I am the law.

danger mouse

Pfft if you see someone committing a crime under Irish law you have the right to use minimal force to hold him or her until police arrive. bonkers law that private security companies follow with shop lifters and the like, but with great detriment sometimes. As they can be sued easily if the perp knows basic 1st year law....

antocann

here you go op http://tinyurl.com/2uccaf5

next time try iy your self


:P:P:P:P

baalthor

For certain crimes, a citizen can detain a suspect until the police arrive. I think the crime had to have just been committed.

starbelgrade

Do the laws of citizen's arrest apply to fashion crimes?

ItsAWindUp

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

I am the law.

And you can't beat the law.

greenmachine88

He'll just wmd your ass

Wolfe Tone

starbelgrade wrote: »

Do the laws of citizen's arrest apply to fashion crimes?

Only if said fashion crime is to be naked in a playground.



Not a good look. Gok Won does not endorse that style.

stovelid

starbelgrade wrote: »

Do the laws of citizen's arrest apply to fashion crimes?

I wasn't there but the chances of the arresters wearing non-risible clothes were frankly a little slim, let's be honest.

KeithM89_old

I kinda made a citizens arrest the other day, i just didnt have any handcuffs, gun, aviators or witty catchphrase

KungPao

The Citizen cannot be arrested.

orourkeda

I'd bleedin' batter 'im

KungPao

Imagine a citizens arrest on Charles Bronson!

Would not end well.

Junco Partner

it's the adult version of tag.

Adyx

Q. What did the policeman say to his stomach?
A. You're under a vest!

Aaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhh haaaaaaaaaaaaa haaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!

Gary4279

Weh Weh Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeh

Caoimhín

Trying to make a citizens arrest is simply begging for trouble. Walk away, forget about it and go for a nice lunch with a pretty girl instead.

galwayrush

It's only useful for someone's ego providing they get to brag about it (the usually failed attempt) with the media or on v.

old_aussie

Citizens Arrest is only lawful where a felony has been committed.

omahaid

IIRC you can't just arrest someone for any crime, it has to be a crime of a serious nature (warranting a large prison term) so you really do need to become Judge Dredd as you need to sentence the person before arresting them (Big IIRC here, could be 100% incorrect)

Pacing Mule

danger mouse wrote: »

Pfft if you see someone committing a crime under Irish law you have the right to use minimal force to hold him or her until police arrive. bonkers law that private security companies follow with shop lifters and the like, but with great detriment sometimes. As they can be sued easily if the perp knows basic 1st year law....

It's following that logic that gets them sued. You can't legally perform a citizens arrest on a shop lifter. It would be false imprisonment.

Logical Fallacy

Pageant Messiah wrote: »

It's following that logic that gets them sued. You can't legally perform a citizens arrest on a shop lifter. It would be false imprisonment.

Actually, this is incorrect.

Once someone has left the last point of possible purchase (that is to say, the premises ), they may be approached and asked to return to the shop. You can tell them you suspect them of shoplifting as defined under the Criminal Justice Act 2001 (under which shoplifting is punishable by up to 10 years), neatly invoking the right to Citizens Arrest.

"An arrest other than by a member of the Garda Síochána may be effected by a person under subsection (3) only where the person, with reasonable cause, suspects that the person to be arrested by him or her would otherwise attempt to avoid, or is avoiding, arrest by a member of the Garda Síochána."

Pawpad666

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

I am the law.

The law is an ass. :P

Nodin

jamieh wrote: »

Hi all,

After someone trying to arrest Tony Blair in Easons under 'citizens arrest' (only in Ireland :rolleyes:)...

Its an english mans idea.
http://www.arrestblair.org/

gerrycollins

dont you have to witness the crime to make a citizens arrest?

SeaFields

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

Once someone has left the last point of possible purchase (that is to say, the premises ), they may be approached and asked to return to the shop.

As a matter of interest I see this frequently in the retail environment I work in....the suspected shoplifter leaves the shop and the security guard and store detective grab him/her and physically drag him/her into the security room without any communication taking place.

Is that assault?

Logical Fallacy

SeaFields wrote: »

As a matter of interest I see this frequently in the retail environment I work in....the suspected shoplifter leaves the shop and the security guard and store detective grab him/her and physically drag him/her into the security room without any communication taking place.

Is that assault?

Obviously without being full appraised of the a particular set of circumstances it is hard to speak in black and white terms. Generally speaking it is considered best practice to ask the person to return to the store, however from a business point of view this is normally done purely as a way to reduce any negative effects of a possible false arrest.

Grabbing a person could be either a Section 2 ( if no physical damage is made ) or a Section 3 (physical bruising, slight scrapping ) assault. It has been my experience that an offender will often use such an occurrence to negate their own crime but that this would very rarely hold up.

The simple fact of the matter is that normally the request to return to the store is met with three outcomes,

1) The person agrees
2) The person turns violent
3) The person runs

Even if the security guard were to announce the action they are taking as a Citizens Arrest it would largely cover all the angles. I am very surprised that such a thing wouldn't happen if i am honest.

Minstrel27

jamieh wrote: »

Hi all,

After someone trying to arrest Tony Blair in Easons under 'citizens arrest' (only in Ireland :rolleyes:)...can someone explain exactly what citizens arrest is?

Can we all just go around arresting each other or wha?

Actually I am almost posititve that people do citizens arrests all over the world. Isn't there a group in the UK who say they will arrest the pope on his visit. So it is very much not (only in Ireland :rolleyes:)

FreudianSlippers

This is literally the dumbest thread I have seen in a while.

Bonito

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

Actually, this is incorrect.

Once someone has left the last point of possible purchase (that is to say, the premises ), they may be approached and asked to return to the shop. You can tell them you suspect them of shoplifting as defined under the Criminal Justice Act 2001 (under which shoplifting is punishable by up to 10 years), neatly invoking the right to Citizens Arrest.

"An arrest other than by a member of the Garda Síochána may be effected by a person under subsection (3) only where the person, with reasonable cause, suspects that the person to be arrested by him or her would otherwise attempt to avoid, or is avoiding, arrest by a member of the Garda Síochána."

I thought it's only allowed here if the crime committed holds a potential prison stretch if the person is found guilty?

galwayrush

OisinT wrote: »

This is literally the dumbest thread I have seen in a while.

Careful, somone might make a virtual citizen's arrest...............:pac:

Jumpy

KungPao wrote: »

Imagine a citizens arrest on Charles Bronson!

Would not end well.

Grave robbing is a crime.

Scarinae

Nodin wrote: »

Its an english mans idea.
http://www.arrestblair.org/

Ah, this puts an interesting spin on things...

This site offers a reward to people attempting a peaceful citizen’s arrest of the former British prime minister, Tony Blair, for crimes against peace. Anyone attempting an arrest which meets the rules laid down here will be entitled to one quarter of the money collected at the time of his or her application.

I wonder how much money they have in the pot, and if she intends to collect it?

EDIT - According to the site, two people who previously attempted this collected £2,619.67 and £2,801.98 respectively.

Jumpy

galwayrush wrote: »

Careful, somone might make a virtual citizen's arrest...............:pac:

I prefer HatfullofHollows idea better.

Logical Fallacy

Bonito wrote: »

I thought it's only allowed here if the crime committed holds a potential prison stretch if the person is found guilty?

The greatest term here is "in potentia". Effectively everything holds a potential prison stretch.

Citizen's Arrest come into play for something that carries 5+ years ( i believe ) and Shoplifting can carry up to 10.

gerrycollins

Bonito wrote: »

I thought it's only allowed here if the crime committed holds a potential prison stretch if the person is found guilty?

the situation with the retail environment is that you are asking the person to return to the store due to a queiry with their shopping.

the person is at all time innocent(regardless what you think etc) and is to be treated as such. any evidence found on the person ie items not on a reciept can be conficated and along with eye witness or cctv evidence a statement is made to the guards in relation to the matter. the person may be questioned but only as part of the in store investigation. when the proof has been obtained the person must be informed that they are been detained untill the proper authorities arrive.

effectively no citizens arrest is made in this instance, however supervised detention is permitted so long as the guards are called and made aware of the situation. all the above can only be done if the store secuirity is 100% sure of the crime and have the evidence to back it up which in turn puts any challenge to the detention in store in the shade. anything less is false imprisonment and all that goes with that.

Pacing Mule

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

Actually, this is incorrect.

Once someone has left the last point of possible purchase (that is to say, the premises ), they may be approached and asked to return to the shop. You can tell them you suspect them of shoplifting as defined under the Criminal Justice Act 2001 (under which shoplifting is punishable by up to 10 years), neatly invoking the right to Citizens Arrest.

"An arrest other than by a member of the Garda Síochána may be effected by a person under subsection (3) only where the person, with reasonable cause, suspects that the person to be arrested by him or her would otherwise attempt to avoid, or is avoiding, arrest by a member of the Garda Síochána."

I'm not a lawyer and have no formal legal training but a company I worked for as a retail manager ended up settling out of court with a thief who had shop lifted and was then restrained by store security after refusing to come back in etc.

Here's where the grey area comes in which we were informed meant we couldn't make a citizens arrest without having it blow up in our faces. Section 4 which you have quoted states the potential prison term for theft as being 10 years but this is theft as in general stealing another persons goods similar to robbing a car etc. Section 8 of the act deals with making off without payment and the max term for this is two years which brings it under the felony level of 5 years.

8.—(1) Subject to subsection (2), a person who, knowing that payment on the spot for any goods obtained or any service done is required or expected, dishonestly makes off without having paid as required or expected and with the intention of avoiding payment on the spot is guilty of an offence.


(7) A person guilty of an offence under this section is liable on conviction on indictment to a fine not exceeding £3,000 or imprisonment for a term not exceeding 2 years or both.

Interestingly enough this section actually states that any person could make the arrest etc but elsewhere the law apparently states that citizens arrests can only be made for offences which carry a potential prison term of over 5 years. Ths guys lawyer basically came after our company and the security company contracted by us for false imprisonment and the legal advice given was the company had indeed committed an offence.

oppenheimer1

antocann wrote: »

here you go op http://tinyurl.com/2uccaf5

next time try iy your self


:P:P:P:P

There is always one bollocks who will post a Let me google that for you link.

dingding

A good few years ago there was a power cut in the local Tesco's, it was a quinnsworth at the time.

They pulled down the shutters and would not let anyone leave till the power came back on. :eek:

If it happned now they would be paying a serious amount of compensation

ejmaztec

dingding wrote: »

A good few years ago there was a power cut in the local Tesco's, it was a quinnsworth at the time.

They pulled down the shutters and would not let anyone leave till the power came back on. :eek:

If it happned now they would be paying a serious amount of compensation

I bet there was a lot of "shop-lifting by stomach" before the power came back on.

antocann

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

There is always one bollocks who will post a Let me google that for you link.

indeed there is but theres also a worse one that bothers complaining about it

Manic Moran

Quoting Bobby.

7.Police, at all times, should maintain a relationship with the public that gives reality to the historic tradition that the police are the public and the public are the police; the police being only members of the public who are paid to give full-time attention to duties which are incumbent upon every citizen in the interests of community welfare and existence.

Most arguably the citizen's arrest is a time-honoured civic duty. However, practical realities are that it is often difficult or ill-advised to perform such a function. Please recall that in the early 19th century when Peel said the above it was normal for private citizens to carry firearms, for example, which tended to even the odds. Citizens' Arrests or Private Detentions are still quite common in the US, though the words 'You are under arrest' are usually replaced with the more practical 'Don't move or I shoot' which does have the same legal effect.

Interestingly enough this section actually states that any person could make the arrest etc but elsewhere the law apparently states that citizens arrests can only be made for offences which carry a potential prison term of over 5 years

Hmm. I wonder how that would have worked out for the chap who tried to conduct a citizen's arrest on the US soldiers in Ennis? Anyone know what the penalty is for wearing a foreign uniform?

NTM

elius

Id love to see her approach Saddam (when alive) and maybe the head of the Taliban who authorised the numerous execution of women and men aswell Amongst other. They No why BANG. :rolleyes:

meathstevie

The term citizen arrest for starters is wrong, civilian arrest would be the correct term. The term citizen arrest implies that the person making the arrest has to be an Irish national; citizen of Ireland. The law clearly states "a person" which is not linked to nationality.

As a rule you'd be looking at offences that can be tried in a jury court or the special criminal court, district court stuff like no motortax or littering doesn't come into it.

FreudianSlippers

meathstevie wrote: »

The term citizen arrest for starters is wrong, civilian arrest would be the correct term. The term citizen arrest implies that the person making the arrest has to be an Irish national; citizen of Ireland. The law clearly states "a person" which is not linked to nationality.

As a rule you'd be looking at offences that can be tried in a jury court or the special criminal court, district court stuff like no motortax or littering doesn't come into it.

It's a colloquialism more than anything really. There is the common law power of arrest and the power under Section 4 CLA 1997:

(1) Subject to subsections (4) and (5), any person may arrest without warrant anyone who is or whom he or she, with reasonable cause, suspects to be in the act of committing an arrestable offence.
(2) Subject to subsections (4) and (5), where an arrestable offence has been committed, any person may arrest without warrant anyone who is or whom he or she, with reasonable cause, suspects to be guilty of the offence.
(3) Where a member of the Garda Síochána, with reasonable cause, suspects that an arrestable offence has been committed, he or she may arrest without warrant anyone whom the member, with reasonable cause, suspects to be guilty of the offence.
(4) An arrest other than by a member of the Garda Síochána may only be effected by a person under subsection (1) or (2) where he or she, with reasonable cause, suspects that the person to be arrested by him or her would otherwise attempt to avoid, or is avoiding, arrest by a member of the Garda Síochána.
(5) A person who is arrested pursuant to this section by a person other than a member of the Garda Síochána shall be transferred into the custody of the Garda Síochána as soon as practicable.
(6) This section shall not affect the operation of any enactment restricting the institution of proceedings for an offence or prejudice any power of arrest conferred by law apart from this section.

vicecreamsundae

http://jezebel.com/5625347/las-one+woman-crime-fighter-moves-to-boston