Part time teachers' pay and contracts

rational

Do part time post primary teachers timetabled for transition years get paid when transition year classes are on work experience?

I am doing a maternity leave cover for the rest of year.

Definative answer much appreciated.

Annieapplepear

Cant see why not when you are contracted to cover maternity leave..? you mite get caught visiting them out on work placement maybe or with another class.

spurious

In our school if your class is out, you would be used to cover deputy classes.

rainbowtrout

rational wrote: »

Do part time post primary teachers timetabled for transition years get paid when transition year classes are on work experience?

I am doing a maternity leave cover for the rest of year.

Definative answer much appreciated.

Yes you should. You are contracted to work in the school if for 6 months (or whatever). It's not your fault that your class is absent. It's much the same as if they were gone to a football match for the day, you wouldn't be teaching them but you would still get paid.

rational

Thanks for the replies folks. Thought that alright but I have got six hours of transition years a week so its a lot of potential lost earnings. Dont mind covering which is what id say i'll be doing alright.

Again thanks to all above.

Miss Lockhart

I am on a part time contract with my own hours. I don't get paid for times when my classes are not available to teach - so TYs out on work experience or classes attending an assembly etc. If there are any classes to cover then I am given those instead, but if there is not then I am not paid.

Perhaps a maternity leave is different though.

rainbowtrout

Miss Lockhart wrote: »

I am on a part time contract with my own hours. I don't get paid for times when my classes are not available to teach - so TYs out on work experience or classes attending an assembly etc. If there are any classes to cover then I am given those instead, but if there is not then I am not paid.

Perhaps a maternity leave is different though.

That doesn't make sense. If you are contracted to work in the school for the year for say, 10 hours, you should get paid for 10 hours per week regardless of where your classes are.

implausible

Miss Lockhart wrote: »

I don't get paid for times when my classes are not available to teach - so TYs out on work experience or classes attending an assembly etc. If there are any classes to cover then I am given those instead, but if there is not then I am not paid.

That's terrible, you should be paid for being there for your contracted hours. Are you in a VEC? Do you have to fill in a claim form for your hours? The only other situation I can think of where this would happen is if you're in a voluntary secondary school and have school hours i.e. not paid by the Dept.

Miss Lockhart

I work in a VEC. I fill in a claim form every month.

I don't know a whole lot about different contracts etc. I have a contract for 17 hours that runs from Aug to June 3rd. It's not pro-rata so I'm not paid holidays - my hourly rate includes holiday pay.

I am only paid for classes that are actually available to be taught. Another thing is that I have 5 hours of adult classes (FETAC) per week as part of my timetable , and since they don't start classes until Sept 20th, I am not paid for those yet either.

implausible

Miss Lockhart wrote: »

I am only paid for classes that are actually available to be taught. Another thing is that I have 5 hours of adult classes (FETAC) per week as part of my timetable , and since they don't start classes until Sept 20th, I am not paid for those yet either.

For FETAC, the VEC could argue that the timetable doesn't exist yet and refuse to pay you. However, for the other classes (e.g. TY on work experience), fill in the form for what's on your timetable, not just for the classes you actually taught. It's not your fault if TY are on work experience or the second years are on a trip, you're there and you're available.

Why do you think you won't get paid? Has this happened before or did someone tell you how to fill in the forms?

rainbowtrout

Miss Lockhart wrote: »

I work in a VEC. I fill in a claim form every month.

I don't know a whole lot about different contracts etc. I have a contract for 17 hours that runs from Aug to June 3rd. It's not pro-rata so I'm not paid holidays - my hourly rate includes holiday pay.

I am only paid for classes that are actually available to be taught. Another thing is that I have 5 hours of adult classes (FETAC) per week as part of my timetable , and since they don't start classes until Sept 20th, I am not paid for those yet either.

Why do you have your own hours yet not get paid for the summer?

peanuthead

afaik if you completed a VEC application form back in june - you will get paid for your own hours during the summer.

Does anyone know what happens re: hours that are put on your timetable after you sign for fixed term? Will they be added to your timetable?

Are BTEI hours able to be included in a fixed term contract?

My situation is that I have been timetabled for 5.5 mainstream hours, with about 5 more BTEI hours coming to me in October. I signed a pink sheet saying that I was here for fixed term on 5.5 hours at the moment, which is true. Can I amend that with my BTEI hours after I get them?

rainbowtrout

peanuthead wrote: »

Does anyone know what happens re: hours that are put on your timetable after you sign for fixed term? Will they be added to your timetable?

They would be added to your timetable and you would get paid for them as normal. It would be like having a CID for 12 hours but getting timetabled for 14, you're just getting surplus hours to what your contract states but there's no guarantee those hours would be available to you the following year.

peanuthead wrote: »

Are BTEI hours able to be included in a fixed term contract?

Don't know, but I don't see why not. You're employed by the VEC not one specific school, so all your hours should count. One of the teachers in my school works in two different schools teaching PLC and mainstream and also in a third centre for VTOS. All under the same contract.

peanuthead wrote: »

My situation is that I have been timetabled for 5.5 mainstream hours, with about 5 more BTEI hours coming to me in October. I signed a pink sheet saying that I was here for fixed term on 5.5 hours at the moment, which is true. Can I amend that with my BTEI hours after I get them?

Don't know about amendments. Someone else on here might know. Or you could ring the VEC and ask. What was the pink sheet? Have you been issued with a contract or any letter informing you what you have been contracted for this year yet? VECs have to have their contracts sorted by November 1st afaik.

I would imagine that when you get your BTEI hours in October you would have to be given a contract for them. You may end up with two contracts but have 10.5 hours in total.

Miss Lockhart

deemark wrote: »

For FETAC, the VEC could argue that the timetable doesn't exist yet and refuse to pay you. However, for the other classes (e.g. TY on work experience), fill in the form for what's on your timetable, not just for the classes you actually taught. It's not your fault if TY are on work experience or the second years are on a trip, you're there and you're available.

Why do you think you won't get paid? Has this happened before or did someone tell you how to fill in the forms?

I figured that would be the case for the FETAC anyway.

I have never been paid for classes on my timetable which, for whatever reason, are not there to be taught on the day. My Deputy Principal originally told me that was how to fill out the form. If I forget and accidentally include a class on the form that was at an assembly or whatever, she subtracts that time and changes the claimed hours to the lesser amount.

rainbowtrout wrote: »

Why do you have your own hours yet not get paid for the summer?

I don't know really. The contract is just a Part Time Temporary one - not Pro Rata. I know the hours are not anyone elses - nobody on maternity leave, career break etc. However, I suppose they could take them away if they wanted to by increasing class sizes and reducing option subjects on offer so that I wouldn't be needed. I suppose they could argue, therefore, that they are temporary.

implausible

Miss Lockhart wrote: »

I have never been paid for classes on my timetable which, for whatever reason, are not there to be taught on the day. My Deputy Principal originally told me that was how to fill out the form. If I forget and accidentally include a class on the form that was at an assembly or whatever, she subtracts that time and changes the claimed hours to the lesser amount.

The oul' bag! You're entitled to that money, it's no skin off her nose. According to the VEC knows, you're being paid to teach your timetabled hours. That money is being spent elsewhere.

[/QUOTE]The contract is just a Part Time Temporary one - not Pro Rata. I know the hours are not anyone elses - nobody on maternity leave, career break etc.[/QUOTE]

'Temporary' is the wrong word. It sounds to me like you have a non-casual contract. These contracts usually cover maternity leave, include holiday pay in the hourly rate and are based on your point on the scale. However, I feel you should be on an RPT contract, but I can't find the definition of the difference anywhere. Maybe Rainbowtrout can help me out here

Are you in a union or do you know the rep in your school?

rainbowtrout

deemark wrote: »

The oul' bag! You're entitled to that money, it's no skin off her nose. According to the VEC knows, you're being paid to teach your timetabled hours. That money is being spent elsewhere.

The contract is just a Part Time Temporary one - not Pro Rata. I know the hours are not anyone elses - nobody on maternity leave, career break etc.[/QUOTE]

'Temporary' is the wrong word. It sounds to me like you have a non-casual contract. These contracts usually cover maternity leave, include holiday pay in the hourly rate and are based on your point on the scale. However, I feel you should be on an RPT contract, but I can't find the definition of the difference anywhere. Maybe Rainbowtrout can help me out here

Are you in a union or do you know the rep in your school?[/QUOTE]

Yes I would definitely agree. That's why I was confused in my earlier post. You're either teaching your own hours or you're not. You're teaching your own hours so by my reckoning you should have your own Part Time Pro Rata contract. It doesn't matter how many or little hours you are on. There's a teacher in my school on RPT (actually CID) contract for 7 hours.

I know you said that the hours could be taken away if they did away with a subject choice or increased class sizes, but the same goes for any other teacher in your school who is RPT. The only difference with them is that they are paid for a fixed amount of hours for the year, but those hours are not guaranteed for the following year. It's an annual contract.

There's something seriously fishy going on there. The only people who fill out sheets in my school are doing them for subbing hours, maternity leave, sick leave like deemark said. I'd seriously recommend contacting your union, ring your local branch if you can't talk to the person in your school/don't know who it is.

The only case I can think of that is similar is one I heard of at a union meeting last year. Girl started teaching in a school - had her own hours but was being employed on a week to week basis. Eventually contacted the union and got her contract. It would seem that keeping her on casual hours like yourself left the position open for anyone else to be employed at the drop of a hat. She was new out of college.

If you are working your own hours you are entitled to a contract. That's employment/labour law not anything to do with schools. If you have been paid for those hours, that constitutes a contract in itself, as the employer is acknowledging that you worked the hours by paying you for them. I'm really annoyed hearing this story - not at you Miss Lockhart, just so annoyed to hear that this crap still goes on and the little person gets screwed over. Talk to your union and see what they have to say.

How long are you teaching in the school anyway?

rainbowtrout

Miss Lockhart wrote: »

I work in a VEC. I fill in a claim form every month.

I don't know a whole lot about different contracts etc. I have a contract for 17 hours that runs from Aug to June 3rd. It's not pro-rata so I'm not paid holidays - my hourly rate includes holiday pay.

I am only paid for classes that are actually available to be taught. Another thing is that I have 5 hours of adult classes (FETAC) per week as part of my timetable , and since they don't start classes until Sept 20th, I am not paid for those yet either.

I've just read this post again, and it just sound more and more bizarre. 17 hours and no RPT contract. I teach PLC as part of my hours (I'm permanent) and they are only starting tomorrow, and will be finished at the start of May but I will be paid for my full hours. I am available to teach, it's not my fault the students are not there. Same with any RPT who teaches FETAC in my school. Maternity leaves still get full pay even if they have FETAC hours.

rainbowtrout

http://www.tui.ie/Part_Time_TeachersLecturers/Default.158.html

The Protection of Employees (Part-Time Work) Act was signed into law on the 20th December 2001. The effect of the new Act means that all part-time teachers and lecturers, who are employed for more than 13 weeks continuous service will be entitled to pro-rata pay and conditions with whole-time staff as exemplified by an EPT contract. Service is continuous unless the staff member is dismissed or they terminate their own employment. The Act provides equal treatment for part-time staff with comparable whole-time staff with regard to pay, holidays and conditions on a pro-rata basis depending on the number of hours worked. The general right to equal treatment with full-timers does not apply for pension entitlements, to part-timers working less than 20 percent of the normal hours of work of a comparable full-time employee. The new Part-Time Act will require that significant changes are made to existing Circulars so that entitlements are brought into line with the Act. These proposed changes are currently under negotiation.

muireannoc

Dear all, I have been offered (& accepted) a full time fixed term contract at my school in Tipp but have just been told that I may not have holiday pay!!Surely this can't be right?Some of my hours are covering a lady on career break & the others...not so sure. I would appreciate any advice on this matter as am in a bad bad mood now.

implausible

muireannoc wrote: »

Dear all, I have been offered (& accepted) a full time fixed term contract at my school in Tipp but have just been told that I may not have holiday pay!!Surely this can't be right?Some of my hours are covering a lady on career break & the others...not so sure. I would appreciate any advice on this matter as am in a bad bad mood now.

A fixed term contract is non-casual so your pay is calculated hourly, in line with your point on the scale and inclusive of holiday pay. If you got a Pro-rata part-time contract, you would get paid over the summer.

Godge

This should help clarify your entitlements:


http://www.asti.ie/fileadmin/user_upload/Documents/Leaflets/Non-Permanent_Teachers_September_2010.pdf

"The salary and the terms and conditions of employment of part-time teachers must be in accordance with the Protection of Employees (Part-Time) Work Act 2001. Following the implementation of the Act there are now three categories of qualified part-time teachers:
Regular Part-Time Teacher

• Employed for school year before November 1st (or first day after school mid-term).
• Teaching for a prescribed number of hours per week.
• Paid salary to August 31st on pro-rata basis.
• Salary based on contracted hours per week as a fraction of 22 hours.

Non-Casual Part-Time Teacher

• Contracted for more than 150 hours but for less than a full school year, e.g. covering for a maternity leave.
• Paid weekly rate based on incremental salary entitlement ÷ 735 x numbers of hours per week.
• There is no additional payment for holiday periods as this fugure includes 56% holiday pay.

Casual Part-Time Teacher

• Employed on an occasional or non-regular basis, e.g. covering for sick leave.
• Employed for less than 150 hours in school year.
• Paid at a rate of €49.60 per hour as of 1st September 2008. This figure includes 22% compensation for holidays.
• If hours exceed 150, the hours over 150 paid at rate of incremental salary ÷735."

The above agreements also apply in VEC schools. You sound like you should be in the first category - as you are employed in a VEC you should contact the VEC admin people to query and bypass the school. The principal may be hiding what they are doing.

genieinabottle

Hey all,

Sorry to bring all this up again but im so confused about my contract and hope someone can help.

I signed at fixed term contract about 3 weeks ago for x amount of hours. The date on the contract is from the xx of sept to the 31st of august. As far as I can see these hours (although very few) are mine, i.e. not covering sick/mat leave etc etc.

The payroll woman asked me today to drop a signed letter in to her each Friday stating the hours I worked that week from now on. I thought his was kind of strange, as the x amount of hours I worked was on my contract so asked why. She then told me that I wasn’t getting paid for the hours I don’t work, no mid term and no summer!! I wasn’t on a RPT, I felt so stupid.... Why did it not say this on my contract? And why is the date on my contract dated until the 31st of august 2010?

However after reading the above posts I feel that it’s a RPT contract I should be on. Am I right by saying this? Is there any reason why I shouldn’t? Any advice/help with this would be great.

I'm just so confused by all this.

rainbowtrout

genieinabottle wrote: »

Hey all,

Sorry to bring all this up again but im so confused about my contract and hope someone can help.

I signed at fixed term contract about 3 weeks ago for x amount of hours. The date on the contract is from the xx of sept to the 31st of august. As far as I can see these hours (although very few) are mine, i.e. not covering sick/mat leave etc etc.

The payroll woman asked me today to drop a signed letter in to her each Friday stating the hours I worked that week from now on. I thought his was kind of strange, as the x amount of hours I worked was on my contract so asked why. She then told me that I wasn’t getting paid for the hours I don’t work, no mid term and no summer!! I wasn’t on a RPT, I felt so stupid.... Why did it not say this on my contract? And why is the date on my contract dated until the 31st of august 2010?

However after reading the above posts I feel that it’s a RPT contract I should be on. Am I right by saying this? Is there any reason why I shouldn’t? Any advice/help with this would be great.

I'm just so confused by all this.

From my reading of it you have your own hours, there is a teacher in my school on a CID for 7 hours 20, as that was what she was on for the last few years. I think the school/VEC are pulling a fast one. Ring your union TOMORROW and get it sorted. They will probably tell you to fax them a copy of your contract to them. So have a photocopy ready to fax. Make it a priority. I've never heard of anyone getting a year long contract and not being paid for the summer.

Like why would they contract you until august and then not pay you for the summer.

There are still some schools who are trying to get away with some very dodgy practices.

genieinabottle

Should I go to the principal and discuss it with her first? She seems really nice and approachable. Last year was my first year out and was a member of the asti, got very little work so I haven’t got around to renewing my membership yet this year. I was waiting until I got a job.

rainbowtrout

genieinabottle wrote: »

Should I go to the principal and discuss it with her first? She seems really nice and approachable. Last year was my first year out and was a member of the asti, got very little work so I haven’t got around to renewing my membership yet this year. I was waiting until I got a job.

Maybe, maybe not. Your principal isn't responsible for issuing contracts. As you mentioned ASTI, I assume your contract is with Dept of Ed?

genieinabottle

rainbowtrout wrote: »

Maybe, maybe not. Your principal isn't responsible for issuing contracts. As you mentioned ASTI, I assume your contract is with Dept of Ed?

dont have it on me now, its in my locker in school. Its with the Dept of ed as far as i can remember. The school is not a VEC

Isotonic

Do you have two contracts by any chance? one with your own hours and one for the subbing. This may be the reason for having to hand in hours. I had 4 different contracts one year :mad:

implausible

genieinabottle wrote: »

dont have it on me now, its in my locker in school. Its with the Dept of ed as far as i can remember. The school is not a VEC

Is it a private school Genie? These schools often pay teachers 'private' or 'school' hours out of different funds i.e. not Dept. of Education.

genieinabottle

deemark wrote: »

Is it a private school Genie? These schools often pay teachers 'private' or 'school' hours out of different funds i.e. not Dept. of Education.

Not a private school and only have the one contract.

Im so confused about all this.

Further Ed.

Sounds like your Principal might be saving hours for use elsewhere in the school.

Join the Union that is in your school and ask the Union Rep. If your school isn't a VEC school who are you going to for payroll ? A member of the Admin staff in the school ?

I am assuming you are qualified and registered with Teaching Council.

genieinabottle

would it be because they are concessionary hours?

Limerickham

Hey i recently started a new job in a non-VEC school. the contract i have been given says that i am a part time privately paid teacher but also states that i will be paid by the department. I'm bein paid as a sub for 17 hours a week. I was under the impression that you're supposed to be offered a contract running throughout the school year (including holidays) if you start the job before Nov 1st. anyone know where i stand on this one - dont want t start fighting with management untill i've all my facts straight!

rainbowtrout

Limerickham wrote: »

Hey i recently started a new job in a non-VEC school. the contract i have been given says that i am a part time privately paid teacher but also states that i will be paid by the department. I'm bein paid as a sub for 17 hours a week. I was under the impression that you're supposed to be offered a contract running throughout the school year (including holidays) if you start the job before Nov 1st. anyone know where i stand on this one - dont want t start fighting with management untill i've all my facts straight!

Are you getting both Department hours and privately paid hours?

Limerickham

Not as far as i'm aware. My contract says "Privately Paid Teacher Fixed Term Contract of Employment" It's a private school so i'm not really sure how much of the union stuff applies. it says i will be paid the departmental rate. The hours are mine though, the teacher in there before me has left and gotten more hours in a different school so as my understanding went, i thought i was entitled to an RPT contract for my 17 hours. But there is a clause in the contract that says i won't be paid during school closures (midterm xmas etc) and it terminates on the 3rd of June rather than the end of August. Is the school just tryin t save money or am I not entitled to that contract??

Thanks for replying

rainbowtrout

Limerickham wrote: »

Not as far as i'm aware. My contract says "Privately Paid Teacher Fixed Term Contract of Employment" It's a private school so i'm not really sure how much of the union stuff applies. it says i will be paid the departmental rate. The hours are mine though, the teacher in there before me has left and gotten more hours in a different school so as my understanding went, i thought i was entitled to an RPT contract for my 17 hours. But there is a clause in the contract that says i won't be paid during school closures (midterm xmas etc) and it terminates on the 3rd of June rather than the end of August. Is the school just tryin t save money or am I not entitled to that contract??

Thanks for replying

If it is privately paid, you are being paid out of private school funds and not by the Dept. Most privately paid positions in schools do not pay for the summer holidays. It's also up to them what they pay you, but most will pay the departmental rate if they want to get a decent teacher.

If it's privately paid you are not entitled to an RPT contract as it's not a contract with the Dept. If the schools private funds dry up next year, the first teachers to go would be privately paid ones.

Miss Lockhart

Just to add another related query to this thread:

Should part time teachers be paid for when they attend staff meetings?

For example, there are staff meetings scheduled for a Wednesday afternoon when you are usually timetabled to teach classes. You must attend the meetings. Should you be paid?

Or slightly different scenario - you must attend meetings at a time you are not usually timetabled to teach classes. Should you be paid then?

I keep getting different opinions.

implausible

genieinabottle wrote: »

would it be because they are concessionary hours?

You'd really need to look at your contract to find this out.

Mods: can the title of this thread be changed to make it easier to find? It started out quite specific but is now more about Part-time teachers' pay issues in general. Maybe "Part time teachers' pay and contracts".

spurious

deemark wrote: »

Mods: can the title of this thread be changed to make it easier to find? It started out quite specific but is now more about Part-time teachers' pay issues in general. Maybe "Part time teachers' pay and contracts".

Done.

Postgrad10

Sorry to drag up an old thread. In relation to pay , do permanent/contract ETB get paid monthly or is it just casual substitutes? I know of a sub who started subbing on September 1st but won't be paid until the 28th of October. It seems very long time to me to be teaching without some sort of payment.

r93kaey5p2izun

Postgrad10 wrote: »

Sorry to drag up an old thread. In relation to pay , do permanent/contract ETB get paid monthly or is it just casual substitutes? I know of a sub who started subbing on September 1st but won't be paid until the 28th of October. It seems very long time to me to be teaching without some sort of payment.

This is how it is in my ETB. It's awful and I spent years stuck like that. The delay affects everyone non permanent - RPT (including those employed the previous year) and subs.

Permanent and RPT staff are paid twice monthly. Subs are paid once a month.

Postgrad10

I think she's ready to give it up with the cost of travel. That's despicable. Do those subbing in voluntary secondary's still get paid every two weeks ?

happywithlife

Postgrad10 wrote: »

Sorry to drag up an old thread. In relation to pay , do permanent/contract ETB get paid monthly or is it just casual substitutes? I know of a sub who started subbing on September 1st but won't be paid until the 28th of October. It seems very long time to me to be teaching without some sort of payment.

Been there and agree it is truly awful
I ended up.running an overdraft that was a bitch to clear - first paycheck went on clearing that but then nothing left going forward so you spend the year playing catch up. Did hear antidote of a principal subbing their young teachers till payday but not sure was that urban legend or not