Our society must stop celebrating lives of reckless car-crash teens

-Chris-

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/kevin-myers-our-society-must-stop-celebrating-lives-of-reckless-carcrash-teens-2321279.html

Kevin Myers: 'Our society must stop celebrating lives of reckless car-crash teens

By Kevin Myers
Thursday September 02 2010

It is simply wrong to treat the death of a teenager who dies out of voluntary recklessness with the same ceremonials of grief as those for the victim of leukaemia

There are several reasons why we should all be grateful that seven young people escaped without serious injury after their five-seater Opel Astra crashed at 4.45am last Monday morning in Mayo.

The first is the most obvious; these young people are alive, and their loved ones have much cause for relief. But equally, we are not now going to be subject to a serial display of funereal sentimentality, as some priest eulogises over the dead, and simpers how much the late victim loved cars, and how he adored racing, and what a great little speedster had been taken from us just as he was about to reach his impetuous prime.

The minds of the immature have been repeatedly told in recent times that if something untoward should happen to them while they're driving at lunatic speeds in an overcrowded car at 4.45am, their funerals will nonetheless be great celebrations of their lives. Communities will mourn, while their names will be on everyone's lips. And better still, the funeral obsequies will be broadcast on RTE radio, allowing listeners to agree what a great tragedy it was, and those poor young lives! Taken so early! What a terrible accident!

Sorry, wrong. These multiple teenage deaths are not accidents. They are crashes that are actuarially certain to happen -- whether they turn into mass-homicides is merely a matter of chance.

Now, it's possible that adult society can do nothing whatever about every single individual group of teenagers cramming into cars at 2am and joyriding around rural back-roads until the inexperienced driver misses a bend. But after that, adult society should then take over, and impose adult rules. These are -- or rather should be -- part of a culture that does not sentimentalise, and that imposes its will by stern measures. By exacting punishment, the law should send a very clear message to any other 2am devil-may-care youngsters. Not merely should the driver be banned from driving, for anything from a decade to life, but so too should his passengers (and we are always talking about male drivers in these matters).

In other words, we have to create an expectation that the consequences for passengers could outlast the duration of this little trip, into the rest of their lives. For they are all involved in a conspiracy to drive dangerously, and must answer accordingly.

So much for the law; but what about society? Well, I do understand that it is difficult for the few remaining Catholic priests to court unpopularity by being seen to be sober and austere at funerals, particularly since public displays of sentimentality and emoting are almost obligatory at almost all such affairs these days. Moreover, to expect a stern and unbendingly principled line on anything from those broken, vacant-looking survivors of Krakatoa, the Catholic bishops of Ireland, is also perhaps a little ambitious. But still, someone has to draw the line. Maybe the Church of Ireland should set the tone. For communities that half-celebrate the deaths of the semi-suicidal are, by that very deed, making it more likely that further semi-suicidal acts by other young people could follow.

For we know this now about human conduct. Many kinds of behaviour inspire emulation -- from serial killing, to suicides, to lethal joy-riding. We know, moreover, that a death cult can easily take root amongst the impressionable, whereby both suicidal and quasi-suicidal behaviour becomes acceptable.

Very well then. So let adult society reinforce the law with a social taboo, one that is not cruel in execution, but is nonetheless unmistakably austere. Because it is simply wrong to treat the death of the teenager who dies out of a purely voluntary recklessness with the same ceremonials of grief, perplexity and unfairness as those we usually reserve for the victim of leukaemia or lightning strike. Indeed, such posthumous ceremonials for the undeserving can only serve as a glamorous inducement for yet more anti-social and semi-murderous behaviour.

Simple and ceremony-free funerals for those who have sought death would be a right (though admittedly difficult) approach to take, even at the best of times. But we are now heading for the worst of times, as economic collapse, unemployment and social disintegration await communities everywhere. Which is the very reason why we have to create socially enforced norms that operate alongside the law, and that place a mark of public disapproval upon those kinds of behaviour that might become attractive in recession. Such behaviour, obviously, would include young people crowding into a tiny car at midnight to risk their lives by driving at high speed.

Might not passengers have second thoughts about getting into such a vehicle if they knew the price to be paid if they were stopped was a certain ban from driving well into adulthood? And who would think such behaviour was cool if young people KNEW that the funerals that awaited the dead of delinquent car-crashes would be austere, flowerless and without respectful obsequy, and most of all, would never be broadcast with presidential solemnity on RTE?

Social exclusion would certainly be the reward for young people if they engaged in sex acts on the main street at noon. Why is driving down that same main street at murderous speed at midnight so much less reprehensible?

kmyers@independent.ie

- Kevin Myers

Irish Independent

I just came across this now. I'm not sure if it's been posted already.

It's harsh, bit is it fair?

I know Kevin Myers can be love him/hate him, but taking this article on its own merits, what do you think?

Berty

That's all good and well but the target audience do not read the Indo. :rolleyes:

Mr Benevolent

He's Ireland's ubertroll.

-Chris-

Berty wrote: »

That's all good and well but the target audience do not read the Indo. :rolleyes:

Well, technically no one should, but what do you think of the opinion itself?

Paparazzo

Myres is a low form of life. I posted this in another thread, but it applies here too:

Paparazzo wrote: »

If anyone reads the indo regularly they'll know Kevin myers is just a wind up merchant who lectures on topics he knows nothing about. It's like giving a stereotypical Joe Duffy caller a newspaper column.
He needs to be controversial (talk shìte) so people will talk about his articles and the indo will sell more papers.
Unfortunately this sells more papers than facts, but this type of rubbish journalism has a lot to answer for

The Big Red Button

I'm not a Kevin Myers fan either, but it's an interesting article alright.

But you can't really blame or criticise the families involved for how they want to celebrate their kid's life. It's the media coverage of the funerals that he should have a problem with, if anything.

Berty

-Chris- wrote: »

Well, technically no one should, but what do you think of the opinion itself?

I think it started when the Bebo starting to entertain memorial sites for people who committed suicide, crashed into a tree, died by drink or drugs etc etc.

You also have the sites on Facebook where people go nuts over a woman throwing puppies into a river but skimmed over the mass genocide the country once faced.

I think it is more of a rant of Myers rather than news.

I think he was nearly verging on making a point that suicide victims / crash victims "in a conspiracy" should not be allowed on consecrated lands.

>>>>>> R&R is that way >>>>>>>>

x in the city

-Chris- wrote: »

Well, technically no one should, but what do you think of the opinion itself?

I agree with him tbh, I have made myself known here and I have scant regard for youngsters legging it around in cars showing scant regard for themselves, their passengers and fellow road users.

They need to be thought that a propelled vehicle with 4 wheels when crashed into other objects is a lethal thing.

Sure, its all sad and teary reading stories and how they were celebrating their friends birthday and what not, but this is the end result.

I learnt driving almost 20 years ago, I did go through a bit of a mad spell but since then I have totally calmed down and respect other road users and would not endanger lives of anyone, or anyone who travel's with me. :rolleyes:


Driving a car needs total concentration, I bet the people who crashed were belting out tunes, chattering and generally doing anything but paying attention to the road.

Crashing cars when you are young and killing your friends is not cool.

mike65

chatterpillar wrote: »

I'm not a Kevin Myers fan either, but it's an interesting article alright.

But you can't really blame or criticise the families involved for how they want to celebrate their kid's life. It's the media coverage of the funerals that he should have a problem with, if anything.

My thoughts exactly You'll notice a few don't seem to get it.

Dartz

I've got a strange idea about this... approaching it from a different angle than just 'the driver'. What if there are other factors at play here?


Now thing for a moment. Car safety has come on leaps and bounds in the last decade or so, hasn't it. A brand new car bought today is much stronger and safer in an accident than one from even ten years ago, and definitely one from 15 or 20 years ago. They may well have been crashed and repaired, weakening the vehicles structure more. Also consider that older cars are cheap to purchase, and to insure.

What kind of car is a younger driver most likely to be driving, but something cheap to buy, cheap to insure and probably pretty small to boot. Now then, couple that with a fully loaded car, as friends give lifts to friends. Five people crammed into a small car... with more limited safety features.

That's even before we add the driver to the equation. And anybody can have an accident.

I was stone cold sober designated driver earlier this year, and I managed to crash after being distracted by a passenger who was anything but sober. New-ish Renault Scenic... at a low enough speed that all I managed to do was trash the front suspension because (A) I got lucky and (B)wasn't going that fast (in an estate)....

bazzachazza

I think Mr Myers is touching and only touching on a very big wrong in this country. There is an awful lot more to be said on this subject but as the wounds are still fresh no one is going to be the first to put there head above the parapet and talk about it just yet.

Parental responsibility seems to have gone out the window in this country. I learned my driving skills from my dad by watching him from a young age when we drove in the UK and France and he would describe how the road systems worked and watched how other drivers behaved. He would tell us to watch how the French drivers overtook. I was only 11 or 12 but those words I never forgot. Thats something I want to pass on to my children so they can be responsible and drive properly and courteously not reckless fools.

hoodrats

With that accident in donegal it was the old man who died while returning from bingo i felt sorry for . his funeral received very little coverage on the news and he was the innocent victim.
i think they should discontinue showing the funerals of anybody who dies while driving recklessly on the news.

mrsdewinter

Interesting article alright. And I don't think even Myers would object to a parish priest showing enough sensitivity and tact in seeing a family through a devastating tragedy. I definitely take on board his point about the salivating media coverage of the funerals tho. To be honest, though, from the newspapers' perspective, you have a story that's handed to them on a plate. You've got young, goodlooking people, with grief that's very often "etched" (to borrow a great newspaper phrase) into their features, all gathered at a time and a place that is published in the Death Notices of the Irish Independent. And, like it or not, we readers gobble it up.

unkel

bazzachazza wrote: »

I think Mr Myers is touching and only touching on a very big wrong in this country. There is an awful lot more to be said on this subject but as the wounds are still fresh no one is going to be the first to put there head above the parapet and talk about it just yet.

Parental responsibility seems to have gone out the window in this country.

Couldn't agree more. All parents in Inishowen know their incompetent (as in driving a car) teenage kids are driving around like lunatics sometimes in illegal, untaxed, uninsured, untested cars in the middle of the night and they do nothing about it? They are more to blame than those silly little teenagers who kill themselves and others imho.

Fishtits

Sorry but regardless of what Myers/Independent, etc scribe,

Its a trashy paper

Actually, I'd be interested in knowing if Myers has a driving license and what levels it covers?

Pique

unkel wrote: »

Couldn't agree more. All parents in Inishowen know their incompetent (as in driving a car) teenage kids are driving around like lunatics sometimes in illegal, untaxed, uninsured, untested cars in the middle of the night and they do nothing about it? They are more to blame than those silly little teenagers who kill themselves and others imho.

Jebus !!!
And you're a mod ???

Coming out with such blatant (bullsh1t) generalisations should be an offence worthy of a ban.

I think you owe the VAST majority of parents and their kids in Inishowen a big apology and a Mea Culpa.

You are bang out of order !!

x in the city

Pique wrote: »

Jebus !!!
And you're a mod ???

Coming out with such blatant (bullsh1t) generalisations should be an offence worthy of a ban.

I think you owe the VAST majority of parents and their kids in Inishowen a big apology and a Mea Culpa.

You are bang out of order !!

I agree with unkel, of course he is right. If I was a dad I wouldn't like my kids of 15/16/17/18 go crazy on cars.

discipline, is all we lack in Ireland.

-Chris-

Pique wrote: »

Jebus !!!
And you're a mod ???

Coming out with such blatant (bullsh1t) generalisations should be an offence worthy of a ban.

I think you owe the VAST majority of parents and their kids in Inishowen a big apology and a Mea Culpa.

You are bang out of order !!

I think there's a lot to unkel's post too.

It's probably unfair to say ALL parents have children who are incompetent and driving like lunatics, but I think it is fair to say that ALL parents have a massive part to play in how their children act when they're driving.

There are a lot of young (male) drivers driving like lunatics, being largely incompetent drivers, and driving untaxed, uninsured etc.

At some point someone should say "You're 20 years old, I don't think buying a 140BHP Passat is a good idea. I think you should be in something slower until you've got a bit of sense".

And if a a young driver ignores that advice and is responsible for the deaths of others, they should not be publicly revered as the captain of the football team (or whatever the eulogising priest decides to draw attention to), instead their actions should be looked on with more critical eyes.

There should be a stigma within the young drivers' peer group to being wreckless behind the wheel. The tut-tutting of the elders is meaningless to a young driver who's got their blood up. They need their mates to tell them they're driving like a dick if it's going to have any effect.
Paying respectful homage from the pulpit, through the mass media, to a young driver who has caused the death of others through their idiocy does nothing to build or reinforce the required stigma and needs to be addressed.

mfceiling

An old man from my home town hit the nail on the head when he said "it's the over takers that keep the undertakers in business"

The parents do have a lot to answer for.....you're 16 and getting into a car with 4 or 5 other young ones at night??....not on my watch

itac

From the article
"And who would think such behaviour was cool if young people KNEW that the funerals that awaited the dead of delinquent car-crashes would be austere, flowerless and without respectful obsequy, and most of all, would never be broadcast with presidential solemnity on RTE?"

Does he seriously think that those thoughts are going through the head of the average 17/18 year old who's out on the roads in a car full of friends?

We all thought we were invincible as teens, or certainly most of us did. I took plenty of stupid risks as a teenager, (none that I'll admit to on a public forum!) but the thoughts of dying, and having a glamourous funeral covered by rte were nowhere near my mind when doing so.
Having the press cover a teenage funeral is low, imo. When you're grieving, it's tough enough, but to come out of the church to see reporters & cameras is a f***ing horrible experience.

As for blaming the parents, they don't always know where their kids are, because as far as they're concerned, the kids went to bed at 11/12, and are asleep for the night. They're not expecting them to be out on the roads at 4am. The funerals etc are for those left behind, not those who've died, and if it comforts the family to have a large flowery funeral, who the fcuk is Myers to tell them no?

Funerals are the same for everyone, the bad points of a person are (mostly) kept away from the eulogy. What good does it do to say "Well, X is dead, and wasn't he/she an absolute fcuker for driving so stupidly and killing A, B, and C too. Fcuking idiot."?

Yes, the attitude needs to change amongst young people, but unfortunately, sometimes it takes the worst case scenario to make people realise the mistakes they're making.....and I can guarantee you, that poor 1 guy left alive from the last fatal crash has learned a serious lesson...

sellerbarry

Couldn't agree more with unkel and mfceiling. Those kids who walked away from that crash last week obviously didn't (or didn't care to ) take heed of all the deaths in the previous weeks crash.

djimi

-Chris- wrote: »

I think there's a lot to unkel's post too.

It's probably unfair to say ALL parents have children who are incompetent and driving like lunatics, but I think it is fair to say that ALL parents have a massive part to play in how their children act when they're driving.

There are a lot of young (male) drivers driving like lunatics, being largely incompetent drivers, and driving untaxed, uninsured etc.

At some point someone should say "You're 20 years old, I don't think buying a 140BHP Passat is a good idea. I think you should be in something slower until you've got a bit of sense".

And if a a young driver ignores that advice and is responsible for the deaths of others, they should not be publicly revered as the captain of the football team (or whatever the eulogising priest decides to draw attention to), instead their actions should be looked on with more critical eyes.

There should be a stigma within the young drivers' peer group to being wreckless behind the wheel. The tut-tutting of the elders is meaningless to a young driver who's got their blood up. They need their mates to tell them they're driving like a dick if it's going to have any effect.
Paying respectful homage from the pulpit, through the mass media, to a young driver who has caused the death of others through their idiocy does nothing to build or reinforce the required stigma and needs to be addressed.

I agree; and this is precisely why we need to bring in a very restrictive R license system in this country. For the first 18 months to 2 years you cannot drive cars over a certain class, cannot carry more than one/two passengers, limited speed etc. Tie the class of car to age and experience on an increasing scale, so you cannot drive performance cars until you are at least 28 with 8 years clean driving or something like that. It wont stop people who break the law, and in all honesty with the way the guards police the roads in this country it wont stop anything at all, but it would be a start, and quite a simple one to implement.

yop

Well considering that more people die from suicide each year than on the roads and suicide deaths get little or no media coverage will removing the media aspect of a road death make any difference?

Maybe we are dealing with a more social aspect, people, and I may be knocked for saying this, have a lot less respect for people than say 20 years ago, take kids outside shops, meeting you on a footpath etc, do they step aside when someone older comes towards them, more than likely they wont.

So you can take this to driving, they dont respect the other road users either, its a case of "get out of my fupping way", they obviously dont respect the others in the car with them either and more importantly they don't respect the car/weapon they are driving.

Can you put a young driver into a controlled environment crash, see how brave they are then

ShadowHearth

djimi wrote: »

I agree; and this is precisely why we need to bring in a very restrictive R license system in this country. For the first 18 months to 2 years you cannot drive cars over a certain class, cannot carry more than one/two passengers, limited speed etc. Tie the class of car to age and experience on an increasing scale, so you cannot drive performance cars until you are at least 28 with 8 years clean driving or something like that. It wont stop people who break the law, and in all honesty with the way the guards police the roads in this country it wont stop anything at all, but it would be a start, and quite a simple one to implement.

Right, when did the passat became performance car? Just becouse there are tdi racers out there, who are in fact quite mature, it does not mean it's performance car.

I would like to see my son driving big passat, then some small deathtrap like polo. Last year my misses survived car crash only becouse she was in huge merc, not in some ****box like punto or corsa.

Now you do realise that moust of those young fellas crashed did not even had proper insurance, tax or nct. So putting even more restrictions is just will make it a pain in the hole. All those scumbags will find a way to get performance car no matter what you do. You need to change how poeple think, not just make people pay more more and more!

I could afford skyline when I was 21, but I could not get insured, so I waited anather 3 years and more ncbs. So I got it bought and insured properly.

By all this restrictions and bull**** you will make life worse to poeple who actuolly like cars. The ****ers that just what to die, will find away to get in to car no matter what law you make up!

Everyone cries about young people in performance cars, but ussually it's a total crap little cars that are driven by young people who end up in trees.

As for article... Alot of stuff that was said is just total crap. He is just an attention seeker. Trying to make a fast fame, on a subject that is really popular.

Thought when I heard about that 7 killed, first thing that came in to my head was not sadness, but anger. As becouse of theyr stupidity every single young person is marked as a mass murderer.

Berty

ShadowHearth wrote: »

Right, when did the passat became performance car? Just becouse there are tdi racers out there, who are in fact quite mature, it does not mean it's performance car.

Is that not a contradiction?

How can a person be a TDi racer and be mature at the same time?

Peer pressure kills. Driving fast to look cool, driving faster that your friends, having the faster car, showing how your crappy tyres can hold a bend(but don't), showing your friends how you changed parts in your engine, had it remapped and "felted it up" and pushing it to the limit. It's all about being young.

Somebody a little more mature has to make the harder decisions to say

"This is for your own good".

I was told sh*tty things by my "elders" growing up which I didn't like and looking back they were right every time.

Every car can drive fast. My mothers 900c micra can drive fast if you have the patience to wait for it to hit that speed. High performance, high BHP, high torque and RWD cars are all desirable but they are all dangerous in the "land of the immature".

NOTE: Immature does not mean young and stupid. Immature means being too young to perceive the challenges and threats around them or simply not giving a sh*t about them.

-Chris-

yop wrote: »

Well considering that more people die from suicide each year than on the roads and suicide deaths get little or no media coverage will removing the media aspect of a road death make any difference?

This is due to the Werther Effect and the tendency for a publicised suicide to lead to an increase in the number of suicides in the area in which the original suicide is reported.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copycat_suicide#Journalism_codes

ShadowHearth

Berty wrote: »

Is that not a contradiction?

How can a person be a TDi racer and be mature at the same time?

Peer pressure kills. Driving fast to look cool, driving faster that your friends, having the faster car, showing how your crappy tyres can hold a bend(but don't), showing your friends how you changed parts in your engine, had it remapped and "felted it up" and pushing it to the limit. It's all about being young.

Somebody a little more mature has to make the harder decisions to say

"This is for your own good".

I was told sh*tty things by my "elders" growing up which I didn't like and looking back they were right every time.

Every car can drive fast. My mothers 900c micra can drive fast if you have the patience to wait for it to hit that speed. High performance, high BHP, high torque and RWD cars are all desirable but they are all dangerous in the "land of the immature".

NOTE: Immature does not mean young and stupid. Immature means being too young to perceive the challenges and threats around them or simply not giving a sh*t about them.

Sorry, I not needed to use mature word. I just ment that those people were not some youngster. And there is really not many td boyracers out there. Trust me I have seen quite alot of boyracers. Tdi napped ussually by ather crowed...

As for ather stuff: I think you do agree that stupid fella will find a way how to de in any car.

I have to admit, that after I sorted down from 140 to 400hp my driing habits changed alot too. I drive way more carefully and responsible as newer before. When you do have performance car, you realise how unforgiving it is and hiw it cam bite you in the arse.

Only thong I whanted to say: we dint need more restrictions as we have enough. Just we need more Garda to enforce rules and actuolly be more on the roads to patrol.

Thoie

itac wrote: »

As for blaming the parents, they don't always know where their kids are, because as far as they're concerned, the kids went to bed at 11/12, and are asleep for the night. They're not expecting them to be out on the roads at 4am.

You see, I would blame the parents for not knowing where their children are. Why would you not know where your children are at night? When growing up it was normal if you were under 16 to be told what time to be home at. After 16 it was more normal to be asked what time you'd be home at. But god help you if you were late - you'd be met by a reception committee. Sometimes you'd say "I'll be home by 12", and be told in no uncertain terms that that was too late.

As a parent, should you not be aware if your children are ostensibly going to bed at 11, but then sneaking out later? Particularly if they're driving off.

RandomAccess

Just want to add I was passed out at night by a tdi passat and a honda civic that were racing, they stayed side by side taking up the whole road until an oncoming car forced one to pull back to the correct side of the road.

I hate to say it but we are going to see much more of these incidents involving the sacred tdi (red i no less) than honda civics in future.

And there will likely be more people onboard when they do crash.
I wonder are the insurance companies watching how things are unfolding?

unkel

Pique wrote: »

I think you owe the VAST majority of parents and their kids in Inishowen a big apology and a Mea Culpa.

You are bang out of order !!

Sorry but I don't think so. Instead of closing ranks and not blaming young killer / killed drivers and passengers, they should clamp down on their kids' muppet behaviour and make sure they learn to drive properly and drive safe and legal cars.

Of course it's not every single parent in Inishowen who's to blame but I used the word "all" as an indication of how widespread this problem is. Including kids of Gardai.

conneem-TT

Is he not jumping to alot of conclusions and spouting alot of conjecture.

I've mentioned this in another thread but if we look at some of the accidents involving young drivers (there have been others that don't involve young males but they don't get much media attention see link : http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=67768064#post67768064 ) that have occured over the summer they have alot of things in common.

- inexperienced drivers
- travelling on small rural roads, poor road markings -> where they were neither taught or tested on.
- in the early hours/night, -> tiredness, also not tested on the changes in driving behaviour you need to make to drive in the country at night
- not in "souped up "boyracer" mobiles" but in normal commuter cars
- cars full of distractions, -> i.e. cars full of young mates/friends giddy after a night out

it is plain to see that it does not take "driving at lunatic speeds", taking dangerous manouvers or "muppet behaviour" to cause an accident with those ingredients. It only takes a small lapse of concetration or a couple of seconds of distraction while travelling tired on rural roads in the dark to lead to an accident.

I do think he is 100% correct in that there is too much attention by the media, on the personal aspects of the incidents. There is no need for coverage of a funeral or interviewing locals.

Anan1

Is it the job of the media to report the news in a way that's beneficial to society? Or is it the job of the media simply to report the truth?

Johnny Utah

I think it was disgraceful the way TV3 interviewed the mother of the children involved in the recent crash. Bad form on the part of TV3, but then I don't expect much better from them.

Also disappointed to see RTE/TV3 and all the gutter press covering a private funeral. Disgraceful imo.

Anan1

Johnny Utah wrote: »

I think it was disgraceful the way TV3 interviewed the mother of the children involved in the recent crash. Bad form on the part of TV3, but then I don't expect much better from them.

Also disappointed to see RTE/TV3 and all the gutter press covering a private funeral. Disgraceful imo.

It might help the debate if you told us why you think it's disgraceful.

Johnny Utah

Anan1 wrote: »

It might help the debate if you told us why you think it's disgraceful.

Well, I thought it was self-explanatory Anan1. Would you like someone calling to your door and pointing a video camera in your face when you're going through your darkest hour?

ottostreet

I think its a very silly suggestion that we should stop 'celebrating their lives'.

A car crash is not intentional. Nor is it pre-meditated.

When you're in a car, driving, you are not thinking of what your funeral would look like if you were to crash. That would be distracting.

I don't believe there is anything that can be done to prevent road deaths, especially amongst younger drivers. You only mature on the road by gaining experience, and you can only get experience by driving. You can't tell young drivers to change their approach, they need to figure it out for themselves. And hopefully they will remain alive long enough to have that change. The majority will.

NewApproach

He's right. But it's the media's fault imo. Hyping everything like this up way out of proportion.

Gurgle

Anan1 wrote: »

Is it the job of the media to report the news in a way that's beneficial to society? Or is it the job of the media simply to report the truth?

Two answers, both yes.

Take these late night / early morning crash fatalaties that are such a regular occurance.

What is a 'single vehicle collision'?
Why does a car elect to 'leave the road'?

We hear about the ages of the drivers, but never their blood-alcohol level, the speed they were doing, whether the car had an NCT, whether the passengers were drunk. Basically they gloss over the cause of the crash and get straight to the tragedy of the deaths.

If you want to benefit the country, publish the follow up story with all the above info. Yes it will hurt and shame the families when its reported that their 17yo son killed himself & 6 of his best mates while drunk driving, but thats the level of detail thats needed to scare sense into the other *1% of 17yos who might have done the same thing next month.

*I have no idea how many 17yos drink and drive. I doubt its any higher than the number of 50yos, imo the difference is that the 17yos are new to both drink and driving.

ShadowHearth

Gurgle wrote: »

Two answers, both yes.

Take these late night / early morning crash fatalaties that are such a regular occurance.

What is a 'single vehicle collision'?
Why does a car elect to 'leave the road'?

We hear about the ages of the drivers, but never their blood-alcohol level, the speed they were doing, whether the car had an NCT, whether the passengers were drunk. Basically they gloss over the cause of the crash and get straight to the tragedy of the deaths.

If you want to benefit the country, publish the follow up story with all the above info. Yes it will hurt and shame the families when its reported that their 17yo son killed himself & 6 of his best mates while drunk driving, but thats the level of detail thats needed to scare sense into the other *1% of 17yos who might have done the same thing next month.

*I have no idea how many 17yos drink and drive. I doubt its any higher than the number of 50yos, imo the difference is that the 17yos are new to both drink and driving.

well, when there is an accsident, they only look at age now. and if thats an lad under 21 - JACKPOT! We can rave on! they newer take in account any ather million reasons for accsident to happen.

Media is over blowing all this at the moment. it really started when those 7 fellas died. they felt that avarage Joe loves this, so they started digging more in to it and trying to get more ratings. So they started raiding youtube for irish young fellas doing stupid stuff.

Seriuosly, media should just feck off for a bit with all these "young people dieng on roads"...

PeakOutput

Fishtits wrote: »

Actually, I'd be interested in knowing if Myers has a driving license and what levels it covers?

how is that relevant at all?

PeakOutput

Anan1 wrote: »

Is it the job of the media to report the news in a way that's beneficial to society? Or is it the job of the media simply to report the truth?

simply reporting the truth IS beneficial to society

PeakOutput

ottostreet wrote: »

I think its a very silly suggestion that we should stop 'celebrating their lives'.

the family and friends of course should celebrate their lives, the media should not be spending as much time,if any, on the coverage of the funerals.

djimi

ShadowHearth wrote: »

Right, when did the passat became performance car? Just becouse there are tdi racers out there, who are in fact quite mature, it does not mean it's performance car.

I would like to see my son driving big passat, then some small deathtrap like polo. Last year my misses survived car crash only becouse she was in huge merc, not in some ****box like punto or corsa.

Now you do realise that moust of those young fellas crashed did not even had proper insurance, tax or nct. So putting even more restrictions is just will make it a pain in the hole. All those scumbags will find a way to get performance car no matter what you do. You need to change how poeple think, not just make people pay more more and more!

I could afford skyline when I was 21, but I could not get insured, so I waited anather 3 years and more ncbs. So I got it bought and insured properly.

By all this restrictions and bull**** you will make life worse to poeple who actuolly like cars. The ****ers that just what to die, will find away to get in to car no matter what law you make up!

Everyone cries about young people in performance cars, but ussually it's a total crap little cars that are driven by young people who end up in trees.

As for article... Alot of stuff that was said is just total crap. He is just an attention seeker. Trying to make a fast fame, on a subject that is really popular.

Thought when I heard about that 7 killed, first thing that came in to my head was not sadness, but anger. As becouse of theyr stupidity every single young person is marked as a mass murderer.

Im not suggesting that a Passat is a performance car, but I am saying that, in my opinion, there is no way that a 17 year old who has just gotten their license should be allowed anywhere near something like a Skyline or an Integra; the very fact that they can is pure madness. I dont care how much they like driving or cars, they do not have experience or maturity to handle something with that much power. Let them drive smaller class cars for the first couple of years until they build up some real world driving experience, and if they can prove (by staying accident and conviction free) that they are able to drive bigger more powerful cars then allow them to climb the ladder so to speak. I dont think that is an unreasonable system. Tie it into the license; that way there is no way around it other than to risk it and face a conviction for driving without a license.

And before you go thinking that I am some stuffy git who believes everything the RSA come out with, if the rules I mentioned above were to come into force I wouldnt be allowed to drive the car Im driving, but if it meant that when I could drive it I would be taken seriously by insurance companies and I wouldnt be paying stupid money to own the thing then Id be all for it. Its a few years to wait; its not like Im saying you should be 50 before you can own anything over a 1.4.

And yes Im aware people crash cars of all classes regardless of the performance of the car, but you stick a 19 year old with little or no experience behind the wheel of an Integra and a Polo, which are they more likely to write off? You might be more careful in your Skyline, I know I am in my Integra (Im now 27 with 10 years driving behind me), but believe me, I know an awful lot of drivers younger and less experienced than me who have absolutely no cop on when behind the wheel of something with power. Stick them in a 70bhp Punto and they are less likely to do themselves or others as much damage.

I know the real gob****es will drive everything the same way and crash no matter what, but if it keeps the majority of inexperienced drivers who think they know it all away from cars they are not able to handle then its not a bad thing.

dr.fuzzenstein

mrsdewinter wrote: »

I definitely take on board his point about the salivating media coverage of the funerals tho. To be honest, though, from the newspapers' perspective, you have a story that's handed to them on a plate. You've got young, goodlooking people, with grief that's very often "etched" (to borrow a great newspaper phrase) into their features, all gathered at a time and a place that is published in the Death Notices of the Irish Independent. And, like it or not, we readers gobble it up.

We readers gobble it up and KM is only to happy to partake in the frenzy he's bemoaning.
He's just another shark complaining about the other sharks.
I think this article contributes nothing whatsoever to solving the problem of young people dying on our roads due to their own recklessness and just joins in with the "let's hit all young drivers with a big stick" Joe Duffy brigade who (morons always are) seem to have the majority.

Thoie

Why does the media turn up at any funeral? I'd be extremely annoyed if I came out of the crematorium to be met with cameras doing their damnedest to get pictures of my mascara running to plaster all over television, internet and print.

Regardless of who the person was, or how they died, I don't see how funerals are "news". The news is that the person died. Funerals are the logical conclusion of the death. Unless they're expecting a resurrection, I don't see what the media are doing there at all. By reporting on a funeral, they may as well just print an article saying "Yup, Joe Bloggs still dead".

JMSE

Thoie wrote: »

Why does the media turn up at any funeral? I'd be extremely annoyed if I came out of the crematorium to be met with cameras doing their damnedest to get pictures of my mascara running to plaster all over television, internet and print.

Regardless of who the person was, or how they died, I don't see how funerals are "news". The news is that the person died. Funerals are the logical conclusion of the death. Unless they're expecting a resurrection, I don't see what the media are doing there at all. By reporting on a funeral, they may as well just print an article saying "Yup, Joe Bloggs still dead".

Yeah I'm with that. If media has to sell thats fine but I dont buy funeral coverage. If theres nothing else interesting then stick on a Tom n Jerry cartoon to fill the space.

Kevin Myers has his heart in the right place though, I cant see him putting forward an idea that he doesnt believe in, he's not on a debating team in UCD now. The truth is that no matter what speed limiter we fit, no matter how many years we ban them for, no matter what horsepower we limit them to, a roadkiller will get out on the road in a car if they want, they'll beg borrow or steal and theres nothing in the wee small hours of the morning that we can do to stop them. So all we are left with is the impact of the events that follow, and thats where Myers is.

JMSE

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

I think this article contributes nothing whatsoever to solving the problem of young people dying on our roads due to their own recklessness and just joins in with the "let's hit all young drivers with a big stick" Joe Duffy brigade who (morons always are) seem to have the majority.

Dont be feeling too sorry for yourself there. I had to do a full day course today on how the accident and fatality statistics are here and across Europe compare between the years 1996 and 2006. I am not a young driver, am 39, and I drive a truck but we're the ones doing the safety courses despite the fact that we're already driving safely over 20 years. As the course instructor said, 'you guys are the wrong ones to be doin this course'.

Our man in Havana

I have to agree with Kevin Myers.

ninty9er

-Chris- wrote: »

There are a lot of young (male) drivers driving like lunatics, being largely incompetent drivers, and driving untaxed, uninsured etc.

Fixed that for you. Until the RSA gets THAT message, young drivers aren't going to take any notice of what it says, because we see old people driving poorly too, and nobody is crying for doctors to actually do their medical duty and remove the licence.

-Chris- wrote: »

At some point someone should say "You're 20 years old, I don't think buying a 140BHP Passat is a good idea. I think you should be in something slower until you've got a bit of sense".

You can get into trouble in a 1l Polo, you have amuch better chance of coming out the other side in a 2l TDI Passat. Restirctions should be mindful of this and not restrict cars on the basis of top speed acceleration. I'd much rather my 17 year old cousin was able to overtake safely in a 2l Passat, than die making an attempt in a 1l Polo, we already know that 17 year olds will attempt to overtake regardless, so why TRY to kill them by restricting what they can drive to a ridiculous level.

-Chris- wrote: »

There should be a stigma within the young drivers' peer group to being wreckless behind the wheel. The tut-tutting of the elders is meaningless to a young driver who's got their blood up. They need their mates to tell them they're driving like a dick if it's going to have any effect.

I agree, but knowing a driver who had someone die in his car hich was overcrowded, and knowing family of the girl who died, I can see where both sides are coming from. Both of them will be scarred for the rest of their lives, at points he probably wished he had died too, where's the good in that?

ShadowHearth wrote: »

I would like to see my son driving big passat, then some small deathtrap like polo. Last year my misses survived car crash only becouse she was in huge merc, not in some ****box like punto or corsa.

Now you do realise that moust of those young fellas crashed did not even had proper insurance, tax or nct. So putting even more restrictions is just will make it a pain in the hole. All those scumbags will find a way to get performance car no matter what you do. You need to change how poeple think, not just make people pay more more and more!

By all this restrictions and bull**** you will make life worse to poeple who actuolly like cars. The ****ers that just what to die, will find away to get in to car no matter what law you make up!

Everyone cries about young people in performance cars, but ussually it's a total crap little cars that are driven by young people who end up in trees.

Ditto

RandomAccess wrote: »

Just want to add I was passed out at night by a tdi passat and a honda civic that were racing, they stayed side by side taking up the whole road until an oncoming car forced one to pull back to the correct side of the road.

And. I was behind a Civic on my way home lastnight that was being driven appropriate to the road condidtions. Your point?


There are just 4 words I want to add with a little post script:

Maintainence, tyres, brakes, training

I think we could seriously reduce the number of these accidents if the Gardaí were out impounding cars with bald tyres for a start, other safety aspects are more difficult to spot, but this would be a starting point.

Ash.J.Williams

Fishtits wrote: »

Sorry but regardless of what Myers/Independent, etc scribe,

Its a trashy paper

Actually, I'd be interested in knowing if Myers has a driving license and what levels it covers?

my dangerous driving friend actually slammed into the back of him once

galwaytt

...well, all this mention of performance cars, NCT's, roadworthiness etc, are, in the case of the 3 big crashes lately, is as yet, conjecture.

For a start, neither of the 3 were the 'souped up' types everyone is bitching about: Passat, Hyundai, Astra. And I take umbrage, tbh, at RTE zooming in on an alloy wheel and 'inferring'.........'ah, boy racer car' at every opportunity.

Secondly, there is no evidence, as of yet, that the cars were mechanically faulty.

So, if we allow, for example, that the contributory % to accidents, of mechanical issues is no more than the norm - all this talk of 'souped up' NCT, bald tyres, etc, is a complete red herring. And until the facts become public on those, than to even bring the mechanical aspect into the equation, let alone make it a core subject, is just scaremongering/Gaybo-ing (sic).

And, I have to be honest, I don't know any young person that has scrimped to get a car, that doesn't have at least some pride in it. I work yards from a 1000 pupil secondary school, and a lot of the senior cycle students do have cars, and I've never actually seen a true 'banger'. The odd dent, mismatched hubcap, maybe, but hardly hanging offences........

And the only way to police the roads, is to, well POLICE them. Men on the ground, GTC cars on the roads. Glossy leaflets and expensive TV ads are a complete waste of time.