Winding up Anglo could hit €70 billion - Cowen

Brussels Sprout

Taoiseach Brian Cowen has said the idea that the Government could wind up the affairs of Anglo Irish Bank without facing costs of €70 billion or more would not be in the taxpayers' interest.

Speaking in Co Offaly, Mr Cowen said the Government is anxious to bring the issue to finality as soon as discussions with the European Union have been completed.

He said discussions with the European Commission are at an advanced stage. He added that the Government had sent its final documentation to the Commission on the matter.

The Taoiseach said the issue that was determining the Government's policy on the Anglo Irish issue is how does it minimise exposure for the tax payer - which is already considerable.

Meanwhile, Professor John FitzGerald of the Economic and Social Research Institute has said Anglo Irish Bank has no future. He said that decisions must be taken soon on the cheapest way of dealing with it.

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So we have to keep pumping money into this toxic heap of sludge or else it'll cost us even more money according to our dear leader-beautiful!

steamengine

Brussels Sprout wrote: »

link


So we have to keep pumping money into this toxic heap of sludge or else it'll cost us even more money according to our dear leader-beautiful!

Chief Sitting Bull has spoken : BOOM boom boom boom....BOOM boom boom boom.

Scarab80

Brussels Sprout wrote: »

link


So we have to keep pumping money into this toxic heap of sludge or else it'll cost us even more money according to our dear leader-beautiful!

That's overnight shutdown funding costs. If the bank were shut down tomorrow all of the creditors would need to be repaid as they are covered by guarantee, financing this might cost about 70bn (i.e. it can't be done). The government would then have to wait for the loans to mature or sell the loan book to recoup money on this 70bn.

By the way a very informative discussion on Anglo options over on Irish Economy blog, probably the best analysis I have seen to date, and it takes place in the comments section!!

Colonel Sanders

Scarab80 wrote: »

By the way a very informative discussion on Anglo options over on Irish Economy blog, probably the best analysis I have seen to date, and it takes place in the comments section!!

That site and the Pin are probably the 2 best (Irish topic dominated) discussion sites on the web. A lot of posters post on both

Comment section is pretty much the means of replying to the posted article (think of an OP on a "normal" discussion board

changes

some guy on prime time last night was saying it was an exercise in futility ireland trying to honour all its debts.

renegotiate them.

iMax

Can they not change the locks on that feckin place & then just sell the debts on the international markets ?

Scarab80

Colonel Sanders wrote: »

That site and the Pin are probably the 2 best (Irish topic dominated) discussion sites on the web. A lot of posters post on both

Comment section is pretty much the means of replying to the posted article (think of an OP on a "normal" discussion board

The depressing thing is that they provide the best analysis of the situation on the web or off. The issues raised and discussed in the linked thread are exactly what people have wanted to know about Anglo and the guarantee however these are never discussed in any of the national newspapers or on TV in any detail. The mainstream media seem to want to stick to dumbed down reporting with no critical analysis.

Scarab80

iMax wrote: »

Can they not change the locks on that feckin place & then just sell the debts on the international markets ?

I don't think you are going to get too many takers wanting to buy debt. How much will you give me if I let you pay off my credit card bill?

Colonel Sanders

Scarab80 wrote: »

The depressing thing is that they provide the best analysis of the situation on the web or off. The issues raised and discussed in the linked thread are exactly what people have wanted to know about Anglo and the guarantee however these are never discussed in any of the national newspapers or on TV in any detail. The mainstream media seem to want to stick to dumbed down reporting with no critical analysis.

Unfortunately I agree

The likes of Morgan Kelly have said it for years at this stage but unfortunately have never been given a chance to tear Lenihan asunder on the matter. He usully throws cannon fodder in front of learned economists instaed of facing them himself. Can't have "The great white hope" of FF being made an idiot or or exposed as a liar or a light weight can we? No, we'll throw Frank Fahey (used to be Willie O'Dea before he lost his minterial position in disgrace) in front of the advancing tanks in his place like any cowardly commander would do

One thing the government can never escape from is the banking crisis has panned out almost exactly as experts like Brian Lucey, Karl Whelan & Morgan Kelly have predicted from day 1. Yet the government still try to con the population that everything is OK and we've turned that elusive corner and that the next billion flushed own the Anglo toilet will be the last

I remember being told by the clowns in government back in 06/07 to be careful or we'd end up talking ourselves into a recession. It's impossible to do that. However it's alo impossible to spin and bluff your way out of one :mad:

Scarab80

Colonel Sanders wrote: »

Unfortunately I agree

The likes of Morgan Kelly have said it for years at this stage but unfortunately have never been given a chance to tear Lenihan asunder on the matter. He usully throws cannon fodder in front of learned economists instaed of facing them himself. Can't have "The great white hope" of FF being made an idiot or or exposed as a liar or a light weight can we? No, we'll throw Frank Fahey (used to be Willie O'Dea before he lost his minterial position in disgrace) in front of the advancing tanks in his place like any cowardly commander would do

One thing the government can never escape from is the banking crisis has panned out almost exactly as experts like Brian Lucey, Karl Whelan & Morgan Kelly have predicted from day 1. Yet the government still try to con the population that everything is OK and we've turned that elusive corner and that the next billion flushed own the Anglo toilet will be the last

I remember being told by the clowns in government back in 06/07 to be careful or we'd end up talking ourselves into a recession. It's impossible to do that. However it's alo impossible to spin and bluff your way out of one :mad:

I definitely wouldn't include Brian Lucey in that group. This is the guy who wrote a piece in the times suggesting we could sell 28bn of Anglo's LIABILITIES for 21bn! His latest offering - to default on the guarantee without affecting soverign debt - was torn to pieces on the irish economy thread linked above. Notice that Karl Whelan, while responding on the thread, never agrees with Lucey.

His ideas are so off the wall I would expect to be seeing him run for office in the next election.

On the issue of government spin, that would seem to be part of the political scene from all governments these days. I believe it is the media's responsibility to cut through the spin when interviewing and analysing, something they seem completely incapable of doing.

Sand

As Brian Cowen has noted, if a single bondholder had to suffer even a 0.01 loss, fire and brimstone would descend upon Ireland. Earthquakes, famines and tidal waves would sink us beneath the waves.

Or some very rich people would lose some money they risked.

Meh.

ei.sdraob

Ah bejesus, Brian Cowen knows all about loosing ~70 billion at the local casinos.

By this stage being a contrarian to anything this failure of a government says is a sure bet.

hinault

Degrees of death.

€35b.
€70b.

Either way we're dead in the water.

There is a point of principle here, why should privately incurred liabilities (Anglo) be repaid by the State (you and I)?
Anglo should have been let fall.

This goverment made a terrible mistake on 29th September 2008.

At every juncture throughout this entire sorry affair, the public have been duped.

The scaremonerging about a run on the banks persuaded this govt in Sept 2008 to saddle this nation with debt for the foreseeable future.

demonspawn

Jaysus, give me half of that an I'll wrap it up nicely for you.

Nationalize the bank, default on the debt, go have a pint. It's not like Ireland's credit rating can get any worse. Then I might have Fitzgerald arrested on charges of fraud if I'm up to it, he deserves to spend the rest of his life in an 8x10.

Nijmegen

I won't be happy about this until I see some of the corrupt and stupid eejits who caused this mess locked up and sweeping streets in chain gangs, not sitting in their holiday homes... I'm sorry, their wives holiday homes.

Liam Byrne

hinault wrote: »

At every juncture throughout this entire sorry affair, the public have been duped.

The scaremonerging about a run on the banks persuaded this govt in Sept 2008 to saddle this nation with debt for the foreseeable future.

+1

Which is precisely why I refuse to believe any figure that Cowen spouts. He and his FF buddies will come up with any figure to make their uncosted plan seem like the lesser of two evils, which is pretty ironic because the costs involved in their own plan - if you can call it that - rise every other week.

So until someone with authority and credibility tells me that Anglo will cost €70bn to wind up, I don't believe it.

jmayo

steamengine wrote: »

Chief Sitting Bull has spoken : BOOM boom boom boom....BOOM boom boom boom.

More like Chief Shi**ing Bullsh**er :rolleyes:

Nijmegen wrote: »

I won't be happy about this until I see some of the corrupt and stupid eejits who caused this mess locked up and sweeping streets in chain gangs, not sitting in their holiday homes... I'm sorry, their wives holiday homes.

It's nice to have a dream.

Mine is to win the EuroMillions and f*** off out of here to somewhere like Canada or New Zealand where they believe in ethics and the like.

hinault

Liam Byrne wrote: »

+1

Which is precisely why I refuse to believe any figure that Cowen spouts. He and his FF buddies will come up with any figure to make their uncosted plan seem like the lesser of two evils, which is pretty ironic because the costs involved in their own plan - if you can call it that - rise every other week.

So until someone with authority and credibility tells me that Anglo will cost €70bn to wind up, I don't believe it.

Expedience.

Expedience created this mess in the first place.

Expedience pressured the govt in to making their fatal decision on 29th September 2008.

And expedience has been used since 29th September 2008, to justify every single change with regard to how much this financial coup d'etat will end up costing.

The goalposts have shifted throughout this entire process : the reasons for the bailout, the methodology for the bailout, the cost of the bailout, were all altered throughout the period since 29th September 2008.

Private debt has become public debt and to hell with the consequences seems to be the mantra.

Whether the debt is €70b or €35b-€40b is immaterial in my view.
We're dead because the wrong solution was derived to a problem which should never have been allowed to develop in the first place.