Taxing ATMs to prevent tiger kidnappings? Dermot Ahern has lost it!!!

SuperInfinity

http://www.herald.ie/national-news/aherns-solution-taxing-us-for-using-holeinthewall-machines-2323268.html

Is that not the greatest load of codology you've ever heard in your life???

Dermot Ahern wants to tax ATMs so to make ATM machine transactions go down and help prevent tiger raids?

It would be like putting a tax on the act of withdrawing petrol, saying that with the extra tax on petrol, accidents will go down and that'll be a good thing.

I think he should be thrown out of office for this alone, the man is obviously imcompetent. Could you possibly thing of a more stupid thing?

I'm a fan of people getting the axe for saying or doing something extremely horrible that everyone in country can see is ridiculous. It's because they will nearly all the time be able to cover up all of their other mistakes or they'll be explained away and we really only get to see a few clear-cut decisions these people make.

Permabear

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meathstevie

donegalfella wrote: »

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That's probably the first time I agree with you

Another Dermot Ahern pyrric victory over organised crime if his proposals are adopted; first he went after the legitimate handgun owners and now it looks like he wants to punish the folks who love a few notes in their wallet because gangsters cherish cash as well....what's next ? cars over 60bhp ?

Brussels Sprout

I feel like I've fallen asleep and woken up on the 1st of April.

alex73

Its a great Idea!!. I lived in brussels 10 years ago and nearly never used cash.

If the goverment got rid of the card tax and the banks did not charge for debit transactions on your card and the card was accepted everywhere then why would we need cash... once you remove the cash temptation from banks then crimals won't target them.

Even in Ireland today I rarely if ever take cash from bank machine, usually pay for everything with debit card. But for small purchases you really do need some cash as shops wont accept cash. But I would say on average 95% of my wages would never be converted to tactable cash.

alex73

Also I can't understand why Goverment is paying dole /Pension payments still from Post offices. They could be directed to Bank accounts.

ei.sdraob

alex73 wrote: »

Its a great Idea!!. I lived in brussels 10 years ago and nearly never used cash.

If the goverment got rid of the card tax and the banks did not charge for debit transactions on your card and the card was accepted everywhere then why would we need cash... once you remove the cash temptation from banks then crimals won't target them.

Even in Ireland today I rarely if ever take cash from bank machine, usually pay for everything with debit card. But for small purchases you really do need some cash as shops wont accept cash. But I would say on average 95% of my wages would never be converted to tactable cash.

I really don't understand why people are so enthusiastic about plastic? If we loose cash in society and go all plastic we hand more control to the state and more profits to banks, while getting more taxes.

Government dont like things they can;t monitor, control tightly and more importantly easily tax

1. get rid of tax
2. charge more and more transaction charges/taxes
3. profit

A cashless society is a planners wet dream :P This move by the govt is nothing more than a way for them to get more money of you (and piss it away), it baffles me that people see that as a "good" thing

Brussels Sprout

alex73 wrote: »

Its a great Idea!!. I lived in brussels 10 years ago and nearly never used cash.

If the goverment got rid of the card tax and the banks did not charge for debit transactions on your card and the card was accepted everywhere then why would we need cash... once you remove the cash temptation from banks then crimals won't target them.

Even in Ireland today I rarely if ever take cash from bank machine, usually pay for everything with debit card. But for small purchases you really do need some cash as shops wont accept cash. But I would say on average 95% of my wages would never be converted to tactable cash.

Good point. However the key to that cashless society is the acceptance of debit cards for all purchases. Most shops want you to spend a tenner before they'll let you use your debit card. Taxing people at ATMs isn't going to help this.

The annoying thing about this is that they are looking to increase taxes for the massive budget deficit and then dress it up as a benefit (the tiger kidnapping nonsense)

alex73 wrote: »

Also I can't understand why Goverment is paying dole /Pension payments still from Post offices. They could be directed to Bank accounts.

I believe they used pay the dole directly into people's bank accounts but that there was a lot of fraud being committed by foreign nationals who were flying in once a month to sign on and then going back to their home countries.

bbam

Brussels Sprout wrote: »

Taxing people at ATMs

It think we're going to see lots of these new "small" taxes in lots of strange areas of life we never thought of before.... It's the Broadening of the Tax Base they've been talking off, tieing it to bank personell security is just a disguise..

Nolanger

How about taxing the beggars at the ATMs?

GreeBo

ei.sdraob wrote: »

I really don't understand why people are so enthusiastic about plastic? If we loose cash in society and go all plastic we hand more control to the state and more profits to banks, while getting more taxes.

Government dont like things they can;t monitor, control tightly and more importantly easily tax

1. get rid of tax
2. charge more and more transaction charges/taxes
3. profit

A cashless society is a planners wet dream :P This move by the govt is nothing more than a way for them to get more money of you (and piss it away), it baffles me that people see that as a "good" thing

Does away with nixers and under the tax radar payments for services. Seems like a win-win to me.
Though I'm not quite sure how we are losing control or paying more to the banks for debit cards?

Seth Brundle

Another thread in the Politics forum: www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056019946

ei.sdraob

GreeBo wrote: »

Does away with nixers and under the tax radar payments for services. Seems like a win-win to me.

Yes it would hit the black economy somewhat in theory, in practice it would extend it, tighter monetary control is one of the first steps usually undertaken by oppressive regimes time and time again in history

GreeBo wrote: »

Though I'm not quite sure how we are losing control or paying more to the banks for debit cards?

People on the internet and using modern ICT really really need to learn to value privacy. You give me your transaction history/logs and I can datamine it to find out where you eat,sleep, fill-up petrol, travel and entertain, in short everything about your life

Would you trust me with such information? (that could be very profitable for me when applied in right manners, as Google's few hundred billion business model would attest to)
Would you trust a private company?
NO!? THOUGHT SO

would you trust the incompetent fools who run our banks and this country (in that order it seems :P)?

By moving away from cash we loose a small bit of freedom and a lot of privacy

you might not value these YET, but one day you would come to regret it


Remember power corrupts, we do not need to hand more power over to faceless and useless bureaucrats and entities whose interests might work against you

GreeBo

ei.sdraob wrote: »

Yes it would hit the black economy somewhat in theory, in practice it would extend it, tighter monetary control is one of the first steps usually undertaken by oppressive regimes time and time again in history

Do you not agree that on a logical level paperless cash is much easier for everyone? People paying for things in cash will be way more obvious in a cash-less society.

ei.sdraob wrote: »

People on the internet and using modern ICT really really need to learn to value privacy. You give me your transaction history/logs and I can datamine it to find out where you eat,sleep, fill-up petrol, travel and entertain, in short everything about your life

Would you trust me with such information? (that could be very profitable for me when applied in right manners, as Google's few hundred billion business model would attest to)
Would you trust a private company?
NO!? THOUGHT SO

I already do everyday. Are you saying that you dont use a laser/debit card? Credit Card? Mobile phone? Toll Tag? Avoid traffic cameras? Make online purchases? Use a shopping club card? Dont look up? :rolleyes:

ei.sdraob wrote: »

would you trust the incompetent fools who run our banks and this country (in that order it seems :P)?

There are industry standards designed to protect this information. PCI for example. These regs are only starting to really be enforced now.

ei.sdraob wrote: »

By moving away from cash we loose a small bit of freedom and a lot of privacy

you might not value these YET, but one day you would come to regret it


Remember power corrupts, we do not need to hand more power over to faceless and useless bureaucrats and entities whose interests might work against you

Ah ok. Now I see your agenda. I'll see you outside the GPO later today so we can march together and fight the power? :rolleyes:

ei.sdraob

GreeBo wrote: »

Do you not agree that on a logical level paperless cash is much easier for everyone? People paying for things in cash will be way more obvious in a cash-less society.

You would be the bigger fool if you think that this would hit the black economy, people who would participate in it would find ways around it, and it does nothing to solve the tiger kidnapings, nothing nada Its like saying people die in road accidents so we should close all roads/motorways and switch to rail, retarded yes > avoids the issue definately

GreeBo wrote: »

I already do everyday. Are you saying that you dont use a laser/debit card? Credit Card? Mobile phone? Toll Tag? Avoid traffic cameras? Make online purchases? Use a shopping club card? Dont look up? :rolleyes:

Ah so we should switch completely because we already have one foot in the bath without stopping for a second and reflecting? Is that what your argument boils down to? try harder please

GreeBo wrote: »

There are industry standards designed to protect this information. PCI for example. These regs are only starting to really be enforced now.

Protect information from whom by whom? You are using the same logic that was so favoured by Bush and co

"If you have nothing to hide then you have nothing to worry about giving up more freedoms for "security" to fight terrorism

Well done :rolleyes:

GreeBo wrote: »

Ah ok. Now I see your agenda. I'll see you outside the GPO later today so we can march together and fight the power? :rolleyes:

Ah yes unable to acknowledge that this is a deadbrained idea from our comatose government which would result in loosing freedoms (whether you value them or not), has privacy implications and would endup costing you

So what do you do? try to attack me the poster and paint me as some loonie conspiracy theory nutcase
Like I said try harder and maybe try to address the points brought up, play the ball not the man and all that, lowering yourself to the level you did paints you in a negative light in this debate

dan_d

Personally I have nothing to hide but I don't like the idea that someone can build a picture of my life based on where I use cards and for what. (says I, putting details of my life on an internet forum!!!)

Recently I got a "bank charges" bill from AIB. For direct debits and transactions using the debit card among other things.It's the first time in what....12 years of banking with various banks that I have ever received a bill like this. Asides from the yearly tax on laser cards and credit cards I pay in the other 2 banks I have dealt with. I only moved to AIB this year and to be honest, I'm thinking of closing the account with them and moving elsewhere. The absolute cheek of it makes me so annoyed. Furthermore this is a quarterly bill. If I get one of these every quarter I'll end up well paying over 100eur a year in "charges".For what???Given that all my business is done on line, all my bills are DD and I occasionally use the debit card....I wouldn't actually set foot in the bank.

Dermot Ahern can start by eliminating that practice before he does anything else.Idiots.

Absurdum

The idea that anyone can walk out of a bank with a six figure sum of cash in a holdall without anyone else being none the wiser is ridiculous. Genuine people withdrawing that amount of cash must be very rare, it's not beyond the realms of possibility that requiring prior approval by a manager and even the local Garda station couldn't be easily implemented.

super_furry

Fianna Fail's answer to every problem is to add a tax. God forbid they should provide the 2000 extra Gardai they promised.

Liam Byrne

...or the "zero tolerance" that they promised.......they don't even apply that to their own members!

A Primal Nut

ei.sdraob wrote: »

I really don't understand why people are so enthusiastic about plastic? If we loose cash in society and go all plastic we hand more control to the state and more profits to banks, while getting more taxes.

Government dont like things they can;t monitor, control tightly and more importantly easily tax

1. get rid of tax
2. charge more and more transaction charges/taxes
3. profit

A cashless society is a planners wet dream :P This move by the govt is nothing more than a way for them to get more money of you (and piss it away), it baffles me that people see that as a "good" thing

If you are suggesting that less cash, more plastic, means less tax fraud; then thats a good thing for most people as they will have to pay less tax to cover for the people who pay less than they should. And yes, I'm sure the government has nothing to do only found out where you slept or ate last night.......:pac:

I don't think its that bad a suggestion, and better than anything anyone else has come up with. Less cash in ATM's would definitely reduce the motivation to carry out a tiger kidnapping. I don't know how this isn't obvious, or why people call it stupid. Saying its a bad idea coz the Government might stalk you and find out where you took a s*** last night is stupid.

drBill

Yet another illustration of how out of touch the members of this government are with reality. They get driven around in cars, flown around in private jets, fed in plush restaurants, and on it goes.

They simply don't understand mundane tasks like taking money out of ATMs, buying petrol, getting a good price on insurance, budgeting for housekeeping, etc because all these things are done for them.

They basically live like princes and it angers me more and more to see their attitude to the citizens who they are supposed to be serving.

ei.sdraob

A Primal Nut wrote: »

If you are suggesting that less cash, more plastic, means less tax fraud; then thats a good thing for most people as they will have to pay less tax to cover for the people who pay less than they should. And yes, I'm sure the government has nothing to do only found out where you slept or ate last night.......:pac:

I don't think its that bad a suggestion, and better than anything anyone else has come up with. Less cash in ATM's would definitely reduce the motivation to carry out a tiger kidnapping. I don't know how this isn't obvious, or why people call it stupid.

Sigh the criminals would switch to computer based crimes and fraud then, as they already have, stealing from plastic is not particularly much harder as we know very well in this country with all sorts of hidden card readers and fishing attacks.

Computer crime is already a huge multibillion international problem where the legal agencies barely began to scratch the surface.

Its interesting how the government are concentrating on a bank robbery to the tune of 300,000 to push thru an unrelated agenda, when this very government has been responsible for bringing the bloody country down to its knees.

Having ATM charges will do nothing to reduce these types of kidnapping crimes. If anything it will make things worse since now people would go to their branch on payday and remove more money in single transaction, forcing the branches to hold more money and having people store more cash at home which would only be good news for burglars, yes it is all very stupid.

If you are naive enough to believe that a move to plastic will reduce tax avoidance, tiger kidnappings, and hit the black market then here I have a lollipop for you .

As someone already mentioned better policing and stricter sentencing is the answer, something that was promised to us in last election.

jmayo

alex73 wrote: »

Also I can't understand why Goverment is paying dole /Pension payments still from Post offices. They could be directed to Bank accounts.

Some people might not have a bank account and they might also win big on the nags.
It is common occurence among ffers I beleive

drBill wrote: »

Yet another illustration of how out of touch the members of this government are with reality. They get driven around in cars, flown around in private jets, fed in plush restaurants, and on it goes.

They simply don't understand mundane tasks like taking money out of ATMs, buying petrol, getting a good price on insurance, budgeting for housekeeping, etc because all these things are done for them.

They basically live like princes and it angers me more and more to see their attitude to the citizens who they are supposed to be serving.

Exactly these people get subsistence amounts, they get unvouched expenses, they get driven around, don't have to worry about car expenses etc.

Every new problem will be solved by a tax.
Maybe there is hope for handgun owners after all ?
Get your handgun back, but license is now 5,000 a year perhaps.

Any minister that came up with removing handguns off legitimate owners as a way of supposedly cutting down gang warfare hits carried out by scumbags using glocks, berettas, etc brought in with drug shipments is not all that clued in to reality.
Then he folowed that with a blasphemy law that would not be out of place in Iran. :rolleyes:

Look at new driving license initative.
What is in there that will actually stop some 19 year old driving like a maniac at 3am in the middle of nowhere that the Garda haven't the resources to police ?

Just another example of complete spannerhead administration and legislation.

ei.sdraob

jmayo wrote: »

Some people might not have a bank account and they might also win big on the nags.
It is common occurence among ffers I beleive

Heres a thought, if we move to plastic then what will FF get in brown envelopes?