Sea The Stars (and other stallions)

Nulty

Reporter goes to 'see' the stars now on RTE 1

Nulty

Covered 140 mares at around €185k each :eek:

€10M

Well done Mr Tsui, well done.

UrbanSea

Aw **** I missed it.

Nulty

I just did the maths there. I must have miss heard cause €85k makes €11.19M

They only get paid if the mare is in foal though I think. After a certain point in the pregnancy the stud gets paid.

Anyone care to correct me on this?

UrbanSea

I think they pay up front.

convert

Not sure what the case is in the National Stud, but normally the stud/stallion owner gets paid when it's confirmed that the mare is in foal (or maybe that's just how the studs we've used have worked). Boarding and personnel fees are paid regardless.

smartaform

Your quite correct Nulty, payment is made once the mare is passed a certain point in pregnancy..

Convert, who the hell stands at The National Stud?

UrbanSea

Cant remember all at National Stud,but Invincible Spirit is the main stallion. Verglas is a decent one at a small fee.

UrbanSea

Here they are http://www.irish-national-stud.ie/stud/stallions/

smartaform

lol... Thanks Greetings... I'm aware of who stands there.. I was playing dumb at converts post as i thought she meant that Sea The Stars was based there

jayroyal

link lads http://www.rte.eu/news/2010/0902/1news_av.html?2812199,null,230

UrbanSea

smartaform wrote: »

lol... Thanks Greetings... I'm aware of who stands there.. I was playing dumb at converts post as i thought she meant that Sea The Stars was based there

Awwwwwwwwwwww right.

UrbanSea

Good man jayroyal,about to watch it now.

convert

smartaform wrote: »

Convert, who the hell stands at The National Stud?

smartaform wrote: »

lol... Thanks Greetings... I'm aware of who stands there.. I was playing dumb at converts post as i thought she meant that Sea The Stars was based there

Smarta*se! :rolleyes:

Would you like me to edit my previous post so that it reads a little better, as well clearly stating the STS does not stand at the National Stud (he's at the Aga Khan's stud in Gilltown, afair!*)?


*/waits for smartaform to tell me I'm wrong...

smartaform

No, your last post makes up for it :D:D

Caught a glimpse of the RTE thing on STS.. Very cool and relaxed for a stallion, only a few attempts to bite his handler lol...

UrbanSea

He doesn't he stands at the National Stud.

UrbanSea

.....waits for someone to tell me how stupid I am.:pac:

convert

greetings wrote: »

He doesn't he stands at the National Stud.

greetings wrote: »

.....waits for someone to tell me how stupid I am.:pac:

Second smarta*se of the thread.... :rolleyes:

And do you really want me someone to tell you how stupid you are? :eek:

convert

greetings wrote: »

.....waits for someone to tell me how stupid I am.:pac:

As per your request: you're stupid! :cool:

UrbanSea

Eye'm nut stewpid

convert

smartaform wrote: »

No, your last post makes up for it :D:D

Because I called you a smarta*se? :pac:

hucklebuck

Hi folks,

Saw this on RTE:

http://www.rte.ie/sport/racing/highlights.html?2824418,2824418,flash,257

I had not seen the original airing on RTE.

Huntthe

Breeders rarely pay the advertised fee. I wasn't aware they had advertised a fee for STS anyway. Also most of the mares sent to him belonged to the owner, the stud owner (the Aga) Coolmore, Darley or a few other select breeders. It is unlikely any money actually changed hands seeing as most using him have their own stallions and would have bartered. All types of deals will have been done to get STS the best possible start to his career.

With the mares he got if they reproduce themselves STS could be a crap stallion and no one would know.

hucklebuck

Huntthe wrote: »

Breeders rarely pay the advertised fee. I wasn't aware they had advertised a fee for STS anyway. Also most of the mares sent to him belonged to the owner, the stud owner (the Aga) Coolmore, Darley or a few other select breeders. It is unlikely any money actually changed hands seeing as most using him have their own stallions and would have bartered. All types of deals will have been done to get STS the best possible start to his career.

With the mares he got if they reproduce themselves STS could be a crap stallion and no one would know.

The advertised fee is the advertised fee, the only ones that would not be paying are the Tsui's and maybe His Higness has an arrangement where he can send two mares a year to him or they get a discount, they may just get an annual fee.

If they reproduce themselves? How does that work

Huntthe

hucklebuck wrote: »

The advertised fee is the advertised fee, the only ones that would not be paying are the Tsui's and maybe His Higness has an arrangement where he can send two mares a year to him or they get a discount, they may just get an annual fee.

If they reproduce themselves? How does that work

Ah yes I see,didn't realise they put a price on him. Still pretty sure no one's writing a check for 85k a go.

If you turned up with your Listowel handicap winning mare and the 85k I still don't reckon they'd be too pleased to see you.The mares he got are of such quality that if he doesn't stamp his stock it won't matter.

UrbanSea

Huntthe wrote: »

Ah yes I see,didn't realise they put a price on him. Still pretty sure no one's writing a check for 85k a go.

If you turned up with your Listowel handicap winning mare and the 85k I still don't reckon they'd be too pleased to see you.The mares he got are of such quality that if he doesn't stamp his stock it won't matter.

Agreed,you have to make an application,I think that's the way with most stallions. All the top mares will go to him first,then in the next few years you'll probably see the mediocre or poor horses,but unlikely at 85k a pop. You'd need realistically a listed winning mare or something to see a nice return if you're wishing to sell the horse after.

Huntthe

There's plenty aren't too bothered about the mares profile as long as you have the $$.

In all, Sea The Stars' book contains over 90 Group 1 winners or the dams of Group 1 winners from 130 hand-picked mares .

UrbanSea

Huntthe wrote: »

There's plenty aren't too bothered about the mares profile as long as you have the $$.

That's true,but not necessarily first year stallions.

convert

I agree with greetings on this. A lot of 'big' sire owners will be very careful what mares are covered by the stallion, especially for the first crop of foals. It's not in their interest to just allow any mare to be sent to the stallion.

Huntthe

convert wrote: »

I agree with greetings on this. A lot of 'big' sire owners will be very careful what mares are covered by the stallion, especially for the first crop of foals. It's not in their interest to just allow any mare to be sent to the stallion.

Agreed.

hucklebuck

In fairness though, I would say there was no shortage of owners looking to have their mares covered by STS and they did pick the best of the applications given that he was sired by Cape Cross who is a decent sire, he was out of Urban Sea who I would say is the most successful mare of all time and what he did on the track.

Anyway if his first crop excel on the track you will be kicking yourself for not getting your mare covered in his first year as the price would more than likely double, if I had a class mare I would be getting her covered asap.

Looking forward to seeing the Zarkava STS foal on the track, sweet lord, it could run a mile in 1:30:00 if it gets the best of each of them.:eek:

hucklebuck

greetings wrote: »

Agreed,you have to make an application,I think that's the way with most stallions. All the top mares will go to him first,then in the next few years you'll probably see the mediocre or poor horses,but unlikely at 85k a pop. You'd need realistically a listed winning mare or something to see a nice return if you're wishing to sell the horse after.

For the most part I think it is the stallions that determine the quality of the foal.

Huntthe

hucklebuck wrote: »

For the most part I think it is the stallions that determine the quality of the foal.

Hmmm...can't agree with that.

hucklebuck

Huntthe wrote: »

Hmmm...can't agree with that.

My better half told me this and I could not think of any example to prove her wrong, if this isn't the case then why didn't Sangster, O Brien and Magnier buy a load of Northern Dancer mares as they would have had the bloodline and been very cheap.

Huntthe

The Stallion will decide how good or how bad.

A good mare will produce a good foal even if the stallion is average likewise a bad mare.

UrbanSea

Yes the stallion is obviously key,but how many times will you see a group winner with a dam who was a maiden or something similair.

hucklebuck

All the good stallions get good mares sent to them.

How many group winners do you see by a maiden winning stallion?

UrbanSea

What do you mean by a maiden winning stallion?

hucklebuck

greetings wrote: »

What do you mean by a maiden winning stallion?

Ok Mr Fussy i mean a colt who won a maiden who ended up covering mares as a stallion. I am using your argument in my favour.

UrbanSea

Sorry I was a bit confused :pac:

Huntthe

There's a list as long as your arm of good stallions who where ordinary race horses.

UrbanSea

But not the top stallions.

hucklebuck

Huntthe wrote: »

There's a list as long as your arm of good stallions who where ordinary race horses.

We know that but they are normally NH stallion a good example is Presenting who I don't think won any Group 1's yet sired Denman, War of Attrition, Dunguib and Weapons Amnesty to name a few

We are talking about top class stallions and mares.

Huntthe

Two off the top my head.
Danzig
Fairy King

Huntthe

Here's another couple .
Indian Ridge. And more modern day, Invincible spirit.

hucklebuck

I don't really know what you are on about with your naming sires, the first two I recognise as sons of the daddy of all sires and invincible spirit has black type to my knowledge.

My point was the sire is considered to be the most important element in breding, you will note that a lot of the time the Dams Sire is mentioned for breeding purposes. There are plenty of unraced stallions in the world, they might have had problems but their bloodline makes them valuable enough to be stallions.

Huntthe

hucklebuck wrote: »

I don't really know what you are on about with your naming sires, the first two I recognise as sons of the daddy of all sires and invincible spirit has black type to my knowledge.

My point was the sire is considered to be the most important element in breding, you will note that a lot of the time the Dams Sire is mentioned for breeding purposes. There are plenty of unraced stallions in the world, they might have had problems but their bloodline makes them valuable enough to be stallions.

There's two points.

Top Stallions don't have to be top class race horses. (Invincible Spirit is now a top class Stallion)

Top stallions covering ordinary mares will give you ordinary foals.
A good mare will give you a good foal from an ordinary stallion.

hucklebuck

Huntthe wrote: »

There's two points.

Top Stallions don't have to be top class race horses. (Invincible Spirit is now a top class Stallion)

Top stallions covering ordinary mares will give you ordinary foals.
A good mare will give you a good foal from an ordinary stallion.

So why don't breeders send good mares to ordinary stallions if it results in a better foal

You could have saved Robert Sangster loads of money with that advice, he could have bought all the mares by Northern Dancer for a snip of the price!!

The bloodline breeders look at is the male side that is why the sire of the dam is generally noted.

I already mentioned lightly raced horses standing as they have a good sire line

Huntthe

hucklebuck wrote: »

So why don't breeders send good mares to ordinary stallions if it results in a better foal

Not what I said. I said..

The Stallion will decide how good . (the foal is)

The bloodline breeders look at is the male side that is why the sire of the dam is generally noted.

Of course they look but you can have the best stallions on the page but if the bottom line (the mares in the family) are not producing the goods buyers/breeders are not interested.

If your Mrs is a breeder just ask her would she prefer a mare from an ordinary family by a top sire or a mare from a top family by an ordinary sire.

UrbanSea

Invincible Spirit is still a group one winner,don't think you can count him in your argument,and I wouldn't have him in the the list of 'Top stallions'

Huntthe

greetings wrote: »

Invincible Spirit is still a group one winner,don't think you can count him in your argument,and I wouldn't have him in the the list of 'Top stallions'

He was rated 116 . Low Grp 2 standard.

He is a top stallion, that's a given.