Vodafone at home Customers - Change to T&Cs from Oct 1st

Sir Oxman

FYI

http://www.vodafone.ie/terms/customernotices/?ts=1276776717356

I believe if you are unhappy with them, you can cancel your contract without penalty.

EDIT: Wrong Date

Sponge Bob

Seeing as most of their customers are ex BT Broadband I suppose I should highlight a few charges

http://www.vodafone.ie/df/homebroadband/otherathomecharges

UK fixed lines 9c (this was included in your free calls with BT)
USA & Canada fixed lines 9c ( that was 5c a minute with BT)

Calling mobiles anywhere but Ireland and UK is a real wallet rape.

East Europe mobile 89c
Australia and NZ mobile 89c
Rest of the world mobile 145c

cormie

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Seeing as most of their customers are ex BT Broadband I suppose I should highlight a few charges

http://www.vodafone.ie/df/homebroadband/otherathomecharges

UK fixed lines 9c (this was included in your free calls with BT)
USA & Canada fixed lines 9c ( that was 5c a minute with BT)

Calling mobiles anywhere but Ireland and UK is a real wallet rape.

East Europe mobile 89c
Australia and NZ mobile 89c
Rest of the world mobile 145c

Are these charges listed above the present charges if you moved from BT, or are they the new proposed charges do you know? I know 2 line holders who wouldn't be aware of these kind of changes but would like to advise them if the terms are changing to be much more expensive for them?

Sponge Bob

Best contect Vodafone by email and clarify, then post their answer here. I have warned 2 ex BT customers of this and urged them to clarify or else moderate their call patterns in future ....or use Skype or the new Google Voice service

cormie

I'm afraid the two I know wouldn't even know what skype is and couldn't even send an email :P They don't use it for international mobiles anyway.. I hope

channelsurfer2

the 2 euro paper bill with catch a lot of people. says they will charge it to anyone who dosent opt for online billing. also their off-peak is now 7pm to 7am changed from 8am to 6pm to reflect the same as eircom's. this will also catch a lot.

Vodafone: Darren

Hiya folks,
The link we had up there for ex BT customers hadn't been updated correctly (it was showing the Vodafone at home tariffs), but should now have the correct info.

channelsurfer2

Vodafone: Darren wrote: »

Hiya folks,
The link we had up there for ex BT customers hadn't been updated correctly (it was showing the Vodafone at home tariffs), but should now have the correct info.

We only changed to vodafone from Eircom last month. does that mean we are affected from october 1st or does our terms stand till the end of the 12 month contract? if not then I will be cancelling....

Vodafone: Darren

Hiya,
It's a change to the terms of your contract from October 1st.

sincere113

Darren

I'm current on free local, national and UK landline calls. Is this going to end?

Cabaal

This also applies to Perlico, they are also changing their T&C's as they are owned by Vodafone.

Vodafone: Darren

Cabaal wrote: »

This also applies to Perlico, they are also changing their T&C's as they are owned by Vodafone.

Hiya,
Perlico have their own Ts and Cs, and their customers are not affected by this change.

rorymcgrory

cormie wrote: »

Are these charges listed above the present charges if you moved from BT, or are they the new proposed charges do you know? I know 2 line holders who wouldn't be aware of these kind of changes but would like to advise them if the terms are changing to be much more expensive for them?

1.45 to rest of World??? Jesus I'm cancelling with them straight away. It used to be only 30c for Europe.

Cabaal

Vodafone: Darren wrote: »

Hiya,
Perlico have their own Ts and Cs, and their customers are not affected by this change.

Sorry just to clafify didn't mean to confuse anyone.

I didn't mean the specific charges in this thread (call charges) I meant they are also changing their Terms & Conditions.

Ala notice in Irish Indo and http://perlico.com/info/terms/

The terms and conditions set out in the “Home Phone and Internet Services”, and the “Pricing Guide” will apply to all Perlico customers from 01 October 2010.
The changes include (but are not limited to):

1. Payment by Direct Debit is a mandatory condition for the service. Customers who subsequently cancel their direct debit mandate may have their service restricted or, as a last resort, terminated. However, Perlico will in all cases contact the customer prior to any termination.
2. The default option for all new Perlico customers is for online billing. Any Perlico customer who orders the service on or after the 1st September 2010, and opts for paper billing, will be charged €2 for each paper bill. Perlico recognises that not every customer can avail of a fixed broadband service. Therefore, on a case-by-case basis, Perlico may not apply this charge to customers who ordered the service prior to the 1st September 2010 and did not avail of a fixed broadband service. For environmental reasons, Perlico encourages all customers to sign up for online billing.
3. Customers’ monthly download allowance is changing to a “usage allowance” for all bundles (defined as the sum of download plus upload broadband usage).
4. Offpeak hours are changing to the following times:
7am – 7pm Mon-Fri, and all weekend. Weekend is 7pm Fri – 7am Mon.

Vodafone: Darren

Ahhhhhhh....I understand now!

sincere113

Darren,

Again.... I'm currently on free local, national and UK landline calls. Is this going to end?

Please reply!!

dub45

Can anyone say if customers are being contacted individually about these changes? It should not be acceptable that notifications of changes of Terms and Conditions can be confined to websites or newspaper advertisments?

Is a customer expected to visit a website daily or pore over newspapers to be aware of changes in Terms and Conditions? :rolleyes:

(And this is a general observation not specifically directed at Vodafone).

badabing106

Vodafone won't spell it out in this thread,.but i will ...if u don't agree with changes,don't renew your contract: small print taken from vodafones irish times Notice..paraphrasing here 'an operator shall notify its subscribers to a modification in conditions of a contract for that service and their right to withdraw without penalty within 30 days from this notification if you do not accept this modification'.if you are happy with the contract ,do nothing. If you are unhappy ..act soon

Vunderground

I find that as an ex BT customer with the
Vodafone At Home Option 3 + Talk Anytime
landline calls to UK landline are unchanged.

The download allowance remains the same for 24MBs customers too.

Established this via boards, Vodafone website and phone call to the company. This info could have been included with my bill.
I agree that it would be easy, ethical and mannerly to inform people of this by more direct means.

Vodafone: Darren

sincere113 wrote: »

Darren,

Again.... I'm currently on free local, national and UK landline calls. Is this going to end?

Please reply!!

No, you will have no changes to your inclusive calls.

Customers are not being contacted individually, the usual methods of website and newspaper ads are being followed in this case.

cormie

Vodafone: Darren wrote: »

No, you will have no changes to your inclusive calls.

Customers are not being contacted individually, the usual methods of website and newspaper ads are being followed in this case.

I find that quite unacceptable myself if their costs are going to increase. The two people I know who changed from BT to Vodafone wouldn't see a notice in the paper and they certainly wouldn't have any reason to visit the vodafone website. I advised them initially to go with BT, BT changed to Vodafone, and now Vodafone are changing something I'm not even entirely sure of myself, so I feel it's now up to ME to inform them rather than Vodafone informing them because I know they won't be informed unless I do it.

You have everyone's postal address, you post bills, why can't you post this too?

dub45

Vodafone: Darren wrote: »

No, you will have no changes to your inclusive calls.

Customers are not being contacted individually, the usual methods of website and newspaper ads are being followed in this case.

Can you tell me why this is considered appropriate? Is a customer supposed to read a newspaper (and which newspaper?) every day from cover to cover and visit a website also daily on the off chance that a company might change its terms and conditions? I notice that the changes are hardly displayed prominently on the website either.

I doubt that Vodafone or any other company would accept a customer communicating with them via the customer's website?:rolleyes:

dub45

cormie wrote: »

I find that quite unacceptable myself if their costs are going to increase. The two people I know who changed from BT to Vodafone wouldn't see a notice in the paper and they certainly wouldn't have any reason to visit the vodafone website. I advised them initially to go with BT, BT changed to Vodafone, and now Vodafone are changing something I'm not even entirely sure of myself, so I feel it's now up to ME to inform them rather than Vodafone informing them because I know they won't be informed unless I do it.

You have everyone's postal address, you post bills, why can't you post this too?

Because everyone would then know what was going on? It should be a basic requirement (for all companies) to notify customers individually of any proposed changes, and not just summaries but the exact wording of the changes. Also dated versions of previous Terms and Conditions should be readily available for customers to refer to. It is hardly asking a lot for a company with integrity.

din0saur

cormie wrote: »

The two people I know who changed from BT to Vodafone wouldn't see a notice in the paper and they certainly wouldn't have any reason to visit the vodafone website. I advised them initially to go with BT, BT changed to Vodafone, and now Vodafone are changing something I'm not even entirely sure of myself, so I feel it's now up to ME to inform them rather than Vodafone informing them because I know they won't be informed unless I do it.

If you look here there are two different pricing schemes; one for those who signed up to Vodafone and another for those who are ex BT customers. If those people you know did not explicitly sign up to a new Vodafone package then they remain on the old contract and rates. I have not figured out what if anything is changing for those (myself included) customers on Oct 1st..

Vodafone: Darren

cormie wrote: »

I find that quite unacceptable myself if their costs are going to increase. The two people I know who changed from BT to Vodafone wouldn't see a notice in the paper and they certainly wouldn't have any reason to visit the vodafone website. I advised them initially to go with BT, BT changed to Vodafone, and now Vodafone are changing something I'm not even entirely sure of myself, so I feel it's now up to ME to inform them rather than Vodafone informing them because I know they won't be informed unless I do it.

You have everyone's postal address, you post bills, why can't you post this too?

Hiya,

The paper billing charge is only for new connections, if a decision is made to start applying this to existing customers, individual contact will be made first.
It's unlikely the two people you mention will notice any difference, as peak times have always been 7-7 for BT customers.

These reasons are, in my opinion, why individual contact has not been made, as many customers will be virtually unaffected by the changes, and a letter will simply cause confusion.
In addition, the methods used to provide this information are those considered standard for many companies.

cormie

Thanks for the reply.

Is there not changes to international call costs? One of the people I mention use the phone for international calls quite often, this could hike his bill up by a fortune with the likes of 145c per minute for calls :eek:

Also, the other person recently made a slight change to their package when I signed up to vodafone mobile (I was always on o2) and I put my name on the bill too so they could avail of the discount.

Can you please explain what changes they are both likely to face?

I think a letter, or better still a leaflet, would explain things a lot better than an ad in the paper. It could be tailored to each customer in a what does this mean for you type presentation.

Sponge Bob

No mention in the tariff scheme of calls to Vodafone mobiles from Landlines. I take it these are 20c a minute even though there surely is no termination charge Voda > Voda

http://www.vodafone.ie/df/homebroadband/otherathomecharges

Thats a markup of around 14c a minute ex vat on a call WITHIN Vodafone

EoghanConway

Vodafone: Darren wrote: »

Customers are not being contacted individually, the usual methods of website and newspaper ads are being followed in this case.

I'm astonished that this could be considered legal (at least by vodafone). The "posted in a national newspaper" argument only works for the government - they also provide access to information through the many state organs.

What if the situation was reversed? A customer posts on their personal website that they are changing the terms of their contract with vodafone so that all calls after one month will be free. Is the onus on vodafone to visit that site and contact the customer to request termination of the contract?

jor el

Vodafone: Darren wrote: »

In addition, the methods used to provide this information are those considered standard for many companies.

This is standard practice lately, that's true, and I believe O2 and Three recently did the same, but it doesn't make it right. I would not consider a newspaper ad and a website notice to satisfy the requirement that states
an operator shall, not less than one month prior to the date of implementation of any proposed modification, notify its subscribers to that service of the proposed modification in the conditions of the contract for that service, and their right to withdraw without penalty from such contract if they do not accept the modification
as you have no way to know if the subscriber was notified or not.

dub45

Originally Posted by Vodafone: Darren
In addition, the methods used to provide this information are those considered standard for many companies.

And who exactly is doing the consideration?

Vodafone: Darren

Comreg, in this case.

Vodafone: Darren

EoghanConway wrote: »

I'm astonished that this could be considered legal (at least by vodafone). The "posted in a national newspaper" argument only works for the government - they also provide access to information through the many state organs.

What if the situation was reversed? A customer posts on their personal website that they are changing the terms of their contract with vodafone so that all calls after one month will be free. Is the onus on vodafone to visit that site and contact the customer to request termination of the contract?

I'm not sure a personal website would be enough, you'd likely need to take out ads in national press in order to do so, and there's no obligation for Vodafone to accept such a change.
I'm not a lawyer, so there may be much more to it than this.

dub45

Vodafone: Darren wrote: »

I'm not sure a personal website would be enough, you'd likely need to take out ads in national press in order to do so, and there's no obligation for Vodafone to accept such a change.
I'm not a lawyer, so there may be much more to it than this.

So if this form of communication is not acceptable to a company why should customers have to put up with it?

rebel girl 15

gambiaman wrote: »

FYI

http://www.vodafone.ie/terms/customernotices/?ts=1276776717356

I believe if you are unhappy with them, you can cancel your contract without penalty.

EDIT: Wrong Date

What way to you have to be unhappy with them - prices or service, or just generally unhappy about speed etc?

Sir Oxman

rebel girl 15 wrote: »

What way to you have to be unhappy with them - prices or service, or just generally unhappy about speed etc?

If you are unhappy with the change in their T&Cs you can use this as an excuse to terminate your contract with them without penalty.
Some companies, I believe, require you to write to them others accept it over the phone (not without a load of baloney being thrown at you first though)
If phoning, I would get the persons name and make sure you say you are unhappy with the change of these particular T&C's and you are invoking your right to ternminate without penalty as stated in tehir notice.
Don't take no for an answer.

You could be hugely unhappy with VF's BB service for instance but are stuck in a contract with them - this allows you to get away from them without charge.

There is a huge thread about O2's recent TCs change which allowed loads of people to escape 18mth iPhone contracts.

Vodafone: Darren

dub45 wrote: »

So if this form of communication is not acceptable to a company why should customers have to put up with it?

We did put up notices in the national press, so it's likely a customer would need to do the same.
Again, I'm not versed in this, so it's likely there are certain criteria to be met before this can be considered reasonable notification. If a website on its own doesn't meet these criteria, then it would likely have no legal standing as a notification method.

rebel girl 15

gambiaman wrote: »

If you are unhappy with the change in their T&Cs you can use this as an excuse to terminate your contract with them without penalty.
Some companies, I believe, require you to write to them others accept it over the phone (not without a load of baloney being thrown at you first though)
If phoning, I would get the persons name and make sure you say you are unhappy with the change of these particular T&C's and you are invoking your right to ternminate without penalty as stated in tehir notice.
Don't take no for an answer.

You could be hugely unhappy with VF's BB service for instance but are stuck in a contract with them - this allows you to get away from them without charge.

There is a huge thread about O2's recent TCs change which allowed loads of people to escape 18mth iPhone contracts.

Thanks for that - the piece I have in bold is why, on a 3MB home package, getting .21MB download speed on a 12 month contract, absolute disaster at home. Told that our line is the problem and nothing that they can do about it!

dub45

Vodafone: Darren wrote: »

We did put up notices in the national press, so it's likely a customer would need to do the same.
Again, I'm not versed in this, so it's likely there are certain criteria to be met before this can be considered reasonable notification. If a website on its own doesn't meet these criteria, then it would likely have no legal standing as a notification method.

You are not answering my basic question "why should a customer have to put up with a form of communication which is not acceptable to the company involved"

Also is a customer supposed to pore over the newspapers on a daily basis on the off chance of a change in terms and conditions?

With the ever declining sales of newspapers shouting into a megaphone would be just as "effective" to inform people.

And again I emphasise this is not just a vodsfone issue.

Sir Oxman

rebel girl 15 wrote: »

Thanks for that - the piece I have in bold is why, on a 3MB home package, getting .21MB download speed on a 12 month contract, absolute disaster at home. Told that our line is the problem and nothing that they can do about it!

No problem.
I understand the frustration, this is why these TC changes are handy for the customer who is stuck with crap services - I wouldn't mention the shyte speeds you're enduring, just say you are not accepting their new TCs set out on their website.

Best of luck

VenomIreland

So, I would be able to claim I am unhappy with the changes and swap to UPC without fee?

Sponge Bob

You can use the T&C change to terminate a VF contract in September and they have to let you go. You basically tell them you will not accept their new terms and conditions and your contract will end september 30th and of course you want written confirmation form them that they will terminate....by post

This applies to their landline product not their mobile products.

VenomIreland

Pretty sweet then, am checking now if I can actually get UPC, should be able to as we had NTL telly before.

dub45

Sponge Bob wrote: »

You can use the T&C change to terminate a VF contract in September and they have to let you go. You basically tell them you will not accept their new terms and conditions and your contract will end september 30th and of course you want written confirmation form them that they will terminate....by post

This applies to their landline product not their mobile products.

Thats of course if you happen to know about them!:rolleyes:

It really is outrageous that Comreg consider newspapers/obscure web pages as an acceptable way of notifying customers of a change in the basic relationship between business and customer.

bealtine

dub45 wrote: »

It really is outrageous that Comreg consider newspapers/obscure web pages as an acceptable way of notifying customers of a change in the basic relationship between business and customer.

Comreg are a pointless organization anyway.

Hype1014

There seems to be a common trend among the multinational telcos. Despite the fact that they make higher profits in Ireland than most other European countries, they continue to tax the customer for a basic service like receiving a paper bill.

In it a coincidence that at a time when they are increasing their charges the are attempting to discontinue paper billing.

Studies have shown that in the absence of paper billing consumers are less aware of tariffs and changes to prices ( normally increases)

Badgermonkey

Hi Darren,

Your previous post reads "The paper billing charge is only for new connections, if a decision is made to start applying this to existing customers, individual contact will be made first"

I've just spoken with V'fone cust services, who advised me to move to online billing, saving me €2. I'm not a new connection??

Can you advise definitively on this?

Regards,

BM

ceejay

Is this bit new? Seems a bit broad to me.

The service may not be used for peer to peer data usage.

This is the last sentence on this page (http://www.vodafone.ie/homebroadband/otherathomecharges/btcharges)

VenomIreland

ceejay wrote: »

Is this bit new? Seems a bit broad to me.



This is the last sentence on this page (http://www.vodafone.ie/homebroadband/otherathomecharges/btcharges)

Jeez, I hope not, I use a lot of linux distros on my laptop and torrents are my preferred way to get them (among other things ).

balabas

Im not happy with these changes. Just to be clear can I cancel now without any penalty?

Sir Oxman

balabas wrote: »

Im not happy with these changes. Just to be clear can I cancel now without any penalty?

Yes.
Say you are not happy with TC changes and quote EU Reg 17.
Don't take no for an answer.
good luck.

writhen

If I was to ring Vodafone today could I still have my contract cancelled?