Ordinary civil bill

sparky.marky1

I received a civil bill via registered mail on the 25th August. To be honest I knew it was coming as I'd been in touch with the solicitors who are acting on behalf of the Bank of Ireland who I owe the money to. I've been paying a regular (but small) amount off what is a quite big loan. However, the solicitors always indicated that it would get to the point that a civil bill would be issued.
My problem is is that I cannot afford any legal advice - and I'm not exactly sure what I need to do. I understand that I'm supposed to lodge an appearance with the court if I'm going to contest it - which I'm not. I've made an arrangment with the solicitor which I assume will continue even when the judgement is enforced, but since February I have been out of work with now signs of things improving - and this is just one of a few things like this that I owe money to. Does anyone have any advice as to what help I can get and from whom. Thanks.

Nevyn

Contact mabs and legal aid for help/advice.

http://www.mabs.ie/
http://www.legalaidboard.ie/lab/publishing.nsf/Content/Civil_Legal_Aid

ravima

you either need to contact legal aid board for advice or some solicitor to protect you. You cannot rely on bank solicitors to look after you - they must look after bank, who is their client.

You need someone to present your case to judge, rather than have judgement registered against you, or some installment order, that you cannot meet.

freakmagnet

Here are your options

1) Get an immediate appointment with MABS. Once MABS come on record, a protocol that BOI have agreed with MABS swings into operation. Normally, this will stop them marking judgment against you - however, in your case, since you've left it long, it may not - but it will be really beneficial all the same. MABS are hard to get appointments with these days - so bear in that in mind.

2) You could lodge notice of your intention to defend. Now, you may not have good defence - for instance, not having money to pay is not a defence. (although, if your circumstances are dire, some courts will accept this as a defence). You don't need a solicitor to lodge the defence. However, it will delay. Other delaying tactics - if you so wished, are to ask them for a copy of the original agreement (if its a term loan) or the application form (if its a credit card)

3) The solicitors that work for BOI, cannot accept a low payment indefinitely. So here is what they are trying to do - they are trying to secure the banks position as best the can legally. What does this mean? Well, the civil bill is prelude to having judgment marked against you. All this means, it that the court has stated that you do indeed owe the money. Yes, this judgment might be published at some stage, so if you were in business or whatever, it might not look good. But the primary thing they are looking for is, if you own property, is to register a judgment mortgage on your property. They will not force a sale of the property. That is far as they will/can go - yeah, it sounds quite serious etc - but its actually not too bad at all. Basically, if you are ever selling or doing anything with the property, you'll need to pay them off. Otherwise the judgment mortgage will just sit there. The other thing the may do, after obtaining the judgment, is get an installment order against you. But this is only done really if you have the money but won't pay. If you are on social welfare/low income, and send them in a statement of means, they won't go that route - guaranteed.

So basically, if you have no property - all the will get is judgement against you. This is fine, if you're not too bothered about it - very unlikely anyone will ever know about ti - and you can continue paying your low payments.

If you have property, they will register a judgment mortgages - again, if you're not planning on moving anytime soon etc - it'll just sit there till its paid back, and they'll most likely accept your low payments indefinitely.

sparky.marky1

Many thanks for the replies guys.
I was with MABS prior to being made redundant, and then my advisor went on maternity leave, everything was kinda ticking over til being made redundant and i tried to contact mabs twice and was promised a call that never came. i managed to sort out with a few creditors (including BOI) paying them a small amount. MABS then contacted me yo say BOI were looking for an updated statement of means. I gave them that - but then they said as I hadnt responded (although I did) they were closing my file, and given that I'd already negotiated with BOI directly, I had the skills to manage this myself and they sent me a copy of managing your debts! i explained that the civil bill was imiment, but i have heard nothing back now.
I do have a house in Kilkenny, which is rented out at the moment, as I rent in Dublin where I as working and where I'm hoping to find a new job. Im on 196 per week social welfare and just don't know how to manage everything on this amount. I realise the judegment is just to secure legallly the banks entitlement. I can't see them not turning up for the hearing (although my friend told me they didn't turn up for hers and the judge wrote the debt off!). I'm just not sure if I shouldl in fact be defending it or not. I'm trying to get an apppointment with FLAC now.
Appreciate the help and advice. Hopefully I'll get something positive out of the FLAC people.

freakmagnet

You see Sparky, while you kinda went off MABS - the advantage of having them on your side, is not because they're brilliant, its because of the protocol they have with the banks - it usually stops things dead and low payments can continue indefinitely - this protocol is only in place since September 2009. That's the difference between them and FLAC. While i think you should go to FLAC - no questions, they are just going to tell you the process. They won't t actually take on your case, as far as i'm aware, they'll just explain the process - and i think you are fairly up to date on that.

Whats most likely to happen here is that they'll get judgment. Then they'll move to put a judgment mortgage on the property. It'll sit there. If you have no intention of selling the property anytime soon, then you're fine. Unless the debt is HUGE, forcing a sale of the property is inconceivable - and if its your only property - and its a house, rented or not, then they'll never push for the sale. The only reason they go the judgment route is because your payments are so low - they have to be seen to be securing the position legally - they can't take what you don't have! They can't force you to pay more because you are on social welfare. So the judgement mortgage/judgement is just to secure the position so the bank feel better about the situation - and thereafter the low payments will become acceptable.

Go to FLAC, but my utmost advice is get MABS back on record - the protocol gives serious breathing space to debtors...

Milk & Honey

freakmagnet wrote: »

Here are your options


2) You could lodge notice of your intention to defend. Now, you may not have good defence - for instance, not having money to pay is not a defence. (although, if your circumstances are dire, some courts will accept this as a defence). You don't need a solicitor to lodge the defence. However, it will delay. Otherwise the judgment mortgage will just sit there. The other thing the may do, after obtaining the judgment, is get an installment order against you. But this is only done really if you have the money but won't pay. If you are on social welfare/low income, and send them in a statement of means, they won't go that route - guaranteed.

So basically, if you have no property - all the will get is judgement against you. This is fine, if you're not too bothered about it - very unlikely anyone will ever know about ti - and you can continue paying your low payments.

If you have property, they will register a judgment mortgages - again, if you're not planning on moving anytime soon etc - it'll just sit there till its paid back, and they'll most likely accept your low payments indefinitely.

This is wrong and dangerous. Putting in an appearance will add to the costs ordered in the case.
Not having the money is never a defence.
If there is a judgement against you, your credit rating will be affected.
If you are making low payments they might well get an instalment order for the same amount.
The bank can force the sale of a property with a judgement mortgage on it.

freakmagnet

I mentioned that not having the money is not a defence. I also said it will affect his credit rating. BOI will not force the sale of a house due to a personal debt. I refer to BOI only.

Milk & Honey

freakmagnet wrote: »

I mentioned that not having the money is not a defence. I also said it will affect his credit rating. BOI will not force the sale of a house due to a personal debt. I refer to BOI only.

You also said
"(although, if your circumstances are dire, some courts will accept this as a defence)"

Just because BOI currently have a policy of not pursuing judgement mortgages to the point of sale does not mean that they do not have the right to do so and does not mean that they will not change their policy at some time in the future.