Turkish accession to the EU

Iwasfrozen

What is your opinion on the accession of Turkey to the European Union? I ask because not only is it what seems to be a very divisive subject but also one I have recently become quite interested in.

I think the biggest obstacle of Turkey's accession is the problem of Cyprus. Turkey is the only country in the world that recognises the turkish republic of northern cyprus while simultaneously refusing to accept the independence of the Republic of Cyprus. A member state of the European Union which I'm sure would cause internal problems if Turkey were to join without back tracking on this position.

On the other hand Turkey is very economically and militarilly powerful so can bring a lot to the EU. Culturally they are one of the richest in the world and their secular Islamic society should be held up as an example to other more extreme muslim nations.

Personally I am in favour of Turkey joing the EU for the reasons above but I seem to be a minority in this country.

Manic Preacher

It's not just Cyprus, there's also the refusal to admit the Armenian genocide. It may be secular technically, but there are huge numbers of conservative Muslims that don't adhere to the same ideals of freedom that we have.

Turkey is nowhere near ready to join IMO. That could change but it will take a long time.

Einhard

I understand that many people have genuine issues with Turkey joining the EU, but I believe that Islamopobia motivates a large proportion of the objections, and there's not really a whole lot than can be done to allay such concerns.

However, I'd argue that accepting Turkey into the EU would send a powerful message to the Muslim world, the vast majority of whom are moderates, that the West is not the imperialist that the hardliners make out.

On the other hand, to deny Turkey membership after so many years of reform as she progressed towards entry, would play right into the hands of those who claim that western powers do not wish to engage with Muslim states as equals.

There are certainly issues that need to be resolved, but I don't think any of them are insurmountable. Ankara will sacrifice norther Cyprus to secure entry, and I envisage an embargo on unrestricted immigration into the wider EU for a few years at least, which would allay some of the fears on that front.

Jeboa Safari

In the long run, I would support them joining, but I don't think either Turkey or the EU would be ready for them joining for the next 10 years at least. I'd be somewhat worried about the Islamic aspect, particularly as lately the seem to be heading more in the direction of taking a hardline Islam approach and policies and becoming a hardline Islamic country, and more anti-European and and anti-western.

Mahatma coat

Why do people Want Turkey in the EU?? could we not just let them be part of some economic Trading bloc with Israel and Lebanon etc, Why the need for open Borders and movement of people, thats where the problem lies IMO.

Iwasfrozen

Mahatma coat wrote: »

Why do people Want Turkey in the EU?? could we not just let them be part of some economic Trading bloc with Israel and Lebanon etc, Why the need for open Borders and movement of people, thats where the problem lies IMO.

Why not? We wouldn't need to create such a trading bloc if we let them into the E.U. Also I dodn't believe that any problem lies with the free movement of people across borders. Quite the opposite in fact, it allows for multiculturalism and the free movement of ideas.

timespast

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Why not? We wouldn't need to create such a trading bloc if we let them into the E.U. Also I dodn't believe that any problem lies with the free movement of people across borders. Quite the opposite in fact, it allows for multiculturalism and the free movement of ideas.

You don't believe that any problem lies with the free movement of people across borders?

I agree.... if you happen to live in Utopia.

Einhard

timespast wrote: »

You don't believe that any problem lies with the free movement of people across borders?

I agree.... if you happen to live in Utopia.

No, he happens to live in the EU.

Iwasfrozen

timespast wrote: »

You don't believe that any problem lies with the free movement of people across borders?

I agree.... if you happen to live in Utopia.

I believe there are problems but also that the benefits outweigh the problems.

Denerick

I hope some day Turkey will be admitted. For a start it will have to grow its economy; it would create a massive distortion for such a large, relatively poor (By EU standards) country to join. Free Trade should be given as a carrot.

People are afraid of 80 million potential immigrants swooping over their border. It doesn't help that they are both brown and Muslim. Give it time. But within the next ten or twenty years I hope to see the Turks represented in Strassbourg.

OhNoYouDidn't

Turkish human rights, specifically to the Kurds are the stumbling block. Their behaviour is appalling and a long way off what's acceptable in our club. Not their population, not their economy

I think there will be an element of if not islamaphoboia, maybe islamaconcious in the decision too though

ron2010

"secular islamic society??"

i dont think so. A few years ago a bunch of young people were killed for handing out Bibles.

Personally I think the whole idea of the EU is like the idea Hitler had for Germany but by achieving its goals in a different manner.

Denerick

CT is thataway ---->


Turkey is secular. This is proven by the fact that an Islamist party is in power but cannot overturn the secular constitution or institutions.

Funglegunk

Big news from Turkey today:

Turkish reform vote gets Western backing

Isn't there some official EU list of criteria Turkey must meet before they can join? How does this referendum square with it if so?

Denerick

It seems that an Islamist party can indeed overturn the constitution and institutions, but not necessarily desecularise them...

Stinicker

Turkey cannot be allowed to join the EU simple as. .

oscarBravo

Stinicker wrote: »

Turkey cannot be allowed to join the EU simple as. .

No, it's not as simple as that. Complex issues rarely are.

Stinicker

oscarBravo wrote: »

No, it's not as simple as that. Complex issues rarely are.

EU - European Union

Turkey - Asia Minor

Europe - Secular and Christian, liberal values

Turkey - Islamic, Conservative, Islamic values

Turkey is a corrupt country and no matter how secular they can claim to be they should never be allowed to join the EU. Islam is not something to be encouraged into our continent. Ukraine is a much more suitable country for candidacy.

Look at how the Turks are "welcomed" in Germany and how they behave and you will see it is a policy for ghettoisation, racial and religious conflict.

Free movement of Turks into Europe must not be allowed and our ancestors throughout the continent spent centuries killing them to rebel their invasions and if Turkey is allowed to join the EU then, they very future of Europe, our race and way of life is doomed as the islamicifaction of Europe will be complete.

Lockstep

Stinicker wrote: »

EU - European Union

Turkey - Asia Minor

Not actually being in Europe prevents one from being a member of the EU?
Don't tell the EU citizens in the Falklands or Guadeloupe that.

oscarBravo

Stinicker wrote: »

Islam is not something to be encouraged into our continent.

Why did I have a feeling it would come down to that?

Denerick

Stinicker wrote: »

EU - European Union

Turkey - Asia Minor

Europe - Secular and Christian, liberal values

Turkey - Islamic, Conservative, Islamic values

Turkey is a corrupt country and no matter how secular they can claim to be they should never be allowed to join the EU. Islam is not something to be encouraged into our continent. Ukraine is a much more suitable country for candidacy.

Look at how the Turks are "welcomed" in Germany and how they behave and you will see it is a policy for ghettoisation, racial and religious conflict.

Free movement of Turks into Europe must not be allowed and our ancestors throughout the continent spent centuries killing them to rebel their invasions and if Turkey is allowed to join the EU then, they very future of Europe, our race and way of life is doomed as the islamicifaction of Europe will be complete.

Oh for Christ's sake.

Nodin

Funglegunk wrote: »

Big news from Turkey today:

Turkish reform vote gets Western backing

Isn't there some official EU list of criteria Turkey must meet before they can join? How does this referendum square with it if so?

Brings them closer to the required standard, afaik.

Nodin

Stinicker wrote: »

Free movement of Turks into Europe must not be allowed and our ancestors throughout the continent spent centuries killing them to rebel their invasions and if Turkey is allowed to join the EU then, they very future of Europe, our race and way of life is doomed as the islamicifaction of Europe will be complete.

You get your pike and prepare for the oncoming horde. We'll call you to defend us if needed.

losthorizon

Stinicker wrote: »

EU - European Union

Turkey - Asia Minor

Get out your Map and have a look where Cyprus is !

Heinlein

Just a fact...

Hrant Dink [editor-in-chief of a bilingual Turkish-Armenian newspaper] was assassinated in Istanbul in January 2007, by Ogün Samast, a 17-year old Turkish nationalist. This was shortly after the premiere of the genocide documentary "Screamers" in which he is interviewed about Turkish denial of the Armenian Genocide of 1915 and the case against him under article 301. While Samast has since been taken into custody, photographs of the assassin flanked by smiling Turkish police and gendarmerie, posing with the killer side by side in front of the Turkish flag, have since surfaced. The photos created a scandal in Turkey, prompting a spate of investigations and the removal from office of those involved.

At his funeral, two hundred thousand mourners marched in protest of the assassination, chanting "We are all Armenians" and "We are all Hrant Dink". Criticism of Article 301 became increasingly vocal after his death, leading to parliamentary proposals for repeal.

Unfortunately the controversial Article 301 of the Turkish Penal Code is still in force despite warnings from the EU that it is against basic human rights and particular EU conventions as well.

I'm sure there are a lot of advanced thinkers in the Turkish society, and yet judging from the events in recent years, Turkish nationalism is reality and is something you can't ignore in the context of joining the EU.

losthorizon

I think the accession of Turkey is a long way down the road if it happens. There are a few issues it needs to deal with the - the separation of the army and state. The Kurdish problem and dealing with their rights. Cyprus - from what I have read the current greek cypriot presient (a communist) and the Turkish Cyriots are inching towards a solution.
Armenia - Relations with Armenia are very frosty (you can understand why). Countrys like France have recognised the genocide of Armenians during the first world war. Turkey too will probably have to make some sort of gesture towards Armenia and open up the closed border. I visited Armenia two years ago on holiday and much of former Armenia lies in Turkey including what they regard as the sacred mountain Ararat. Talk to an Armenian and you feel their sense of injustice and dont underestimate their political clout on other countrys like France, USA, and Cyprus.

With regard to Muslims in Europe posters should remember that there are loads of native muslims in Bosnia, Macedonia, Albania, Bulgaria, Russia and elsewhere in europe.

mike kelly

Turkey has been negociating accession to the EU since 1965! What a joke.

RandomName2

Look the accession of Turkey comes down to one thing: do we want to reward an islamic country for being secular?

This is not the most promising of premises for a beautiful friendship.

Hey India, India, wanna be a member of the EU?
Ah shucks you will have to leave the Kashmir first...

losthorizon

RandomName2 wrote: »

Look the accession of Turkey comes down to one thing: do we want to reward an islamic country for being secular?

This is not the most promising of premises for a beautiful friendship.

Hey India, India, wanna be a member of the EU?
Ah shucks you will have to leave the Kashmir first...

Spain, Portugal and Greece were not allowed into the EU when the army played powerful roles in society. These nations had to reform. This is what is being asked of Turkey, no more, no less. All nations that want to join the EU have to fulfil certain criteria. For instance Croatia had to settle a border dispute recently with Slovenia before negotiations would begin.