Student Societies kicked out of Student Centre

myk

I hear rumours that societies have been kicked out of the student centre by the university and have to move their equipment to the basement of the Helix. My understand is that the college is taking space in the HUB to use as classrooms, possibly to teach English for profit to non-students.

Now the reason I find this odd is that the students pay for the HUB through an annual levy, and student reps have a majority (4:3) on the committee that run the student centre (called Hub Management Committee). Does anyone have any more info? It stinks of the college taking advantage of student reps who don't have much institutional knowledge of the governing of the HUB.

Winters

A protest outside spar should be organsied.

XPS

myk wrote: »

I hear rumours that societies have been kicked out of the student centre by the university and have to move their equipment to the basement of the Helix. My understand is that the college is taking space in the HUB to use as classrooms, possibly to teach English for profit to non-students.

Now the reason I find this odd is that the students pay for the HUB through an annual levy, and student reps have a majority (4:3) on the committee that run the student centre (called Hub Management Committee). Does anyone have any more info? It stinks of the college taking advantage of student reps who don't have much institutional knowledge of the governing of the HUB.

I thought it was a Sports Centre levy not a HUB levy? Or are they all one and the same?

myk

XPS wrote: »

I thought it was a Sports Centre levy not a HUB levy? Or are they all one and the same?

There was a Sports Centre levy previously. The Student Centre levy was put in place in the late 1990s following a referendum of the student body, and was put in place specifically to fund the costs of the Student Centre. An agreement was drawn up at the time between student reps and the college to govern the operations and management of the centre.

XPS

myk wrote: »

There was a Sports Centre levy previously. The Student Centre levy was put in place in the late 1990s following a referendum of the student body, and was put in place specifically to fund the costs of the Student Centre. An agreement was drawn up at the time between student reps and the college to govern the operations and management of the centre.

I wonder if they are generating income from this will the Hub be then open at the weekends?

Noodleworm

yeah, society committee's got an email detailing all this.
Our store room is now in the Helix Basement, and should have the same opening times but we can only have two people from each society elected to go in there. Music, Dance and Drama all get rehearsal space in the Helix too.

They say they argued to keep societies there but the university own the Hub and needed the space. All the stuff from the store room is in the old Bar for now until people go in to move it.

myk

Noodleworm wrote: »

y
They say they argued to keep societies there but the university own the Hub and needed the space. All the stuff from the store room is in the old Bar for now until people go in to move it.

Yeah, the university don't own the HUB, or at least they are in a legally binding agreement with the student body that the HUB is managed by a joint committee of student reps and college reps. So the university can't just bulldoze this through. My recommendation would be to get a copy of the student centre agreement from the office of student life (this was signed in the 1990s) and use this to stop the move. Was this even discussed at Hub Management Committee?

Noodleworm

Well it was apparently the new SU president who was negotiating this. I'm guessing its her job to know the Student centre agreement. I'm just saying what I was told.

myk

Noodleworm wrote: »

Well it was apparently the new SU president who was negotiating this. I'm guessing its her job to know the Student centre agreement. I'm just saying what I was told.

Well SPC and SCC have reps on the Hub Management Committee too, so it would also be their job to know the agreement.

Cy_Revenant

myk wrote: »

Well SPC and SCC have reps on the Hub Management Committee too, so it would also be their job to know the agreement.

Unfortunately the SPC and the student Reps on the HMC appear to just do what they're told.

Admittedly they do their best to get something back after the fact, but if this really is something that just has been forced through by the University then it shouldn't have happened in the first place. Much like the conversion of the seminar room to the Xbox centre, in my opinion.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but in the past five years students have gained in terms of facilities the following; An Xbox centre, a Pharmacy, astro turf football pitches, a new bar(Nubar).

In the same time they've lost the Old Bar, what was the New Bar lounge, the use of the seminar room, the barbars, the pool tables in the den, the entire den area, the use of the glass room and the equipment room in the hub.

Those all seem like relatively small things, compared to the benefits from gaining an on campus pharmacy and set of astro turf pitches, but it still seems like a net loss in facilites to me. Particularly facilities catering to society life.

Katniss everMean

The hub is useless to clubs and societies now, unless you want to use the venue. I really can't believe that this happened. That area tbf has been going down hill over the years. Though it's not from the students not wanting to use it. It's as if they had planned this all along. The college refused to allow us to use the old USIT office for zoning reason, yet now they just give the entire area away.

Granted we might now have a equipment room, that isn't as easy as a kicking a hole in a paper bag to get into. Plus I say most societies that use that room in anyway, had to drag their stuff to another building for events, since the SU put the xbox live place into the seminar room. It's just bit by bit, the building that is MEANT to be the hub of life for students is vanishing. It's a shame.

I wonder if the hub money in the capitation fees will be removed, or at least lowered since we have limited use of the space.

Fiftysix

This is bollox. Societies have lost their little area at the top of the hub? Who cares?

Apart from Redbrick (who as far as i know have been catered for) the snooker club and a very small part of music soc. That area has been used as a place for societies to fúck their stuff in, without any regard for anything else.
There is nothing there but a waste of space, stop moaning about it for the sake of it.
"Losing" the seminar room was a good thing for students, it brought people into the hub that had never been there before. The seminar room lay empty for a huge amount of time of the week, then when it was used it was by 6 people in stocs, and the anime and manga, who are they only ones who could have had any problem with it. The SPC or SLC whatever they are now, will come up with an alternative arrangement!

The HMC have little or no power of what happens, despite all your glorifies views of it. The fact that their is 3 student voices on it means nothing cuz when it comes down to it, it is what the university wants to do.The student body has not funded 100% of the hub, contrary to popular belief, DCU funded half it, and it is on the DCU grounds. They have full rights to do whatever they want.


This move takes the pressure of an entire school and enables them to teach to a higher standard than before, that is what you go to college for.

andrew163

Much like the conversion of the seminar room to the Xbox centre, in my opinion.

I think this has been done before, but that was a stupid tradeoff. Even if it was the same group of stocs people using it every day of every week (and I disagree with that assertion), then rethink how it's scheduled, don't bloody seal it off from societies and put some games consoles in. There were societies crying out for use of that room most evenings, and depending on the time of year it could be difficult to get use of it during the daytime. However, that's a tangent to this topic; destroying the seminar room was an SU decision (go them).

Correct me if I'm wrong, but in the past five years students have gained in terms of facilities the following; An Xbox centre, a Pharmacy, astro turf football pitches, a new bar(Nubar).

We didn't gain the bar, it was there when I was in first year. It just closed for a while and came back again, in various incarnations. I don't see the pharmacy as a gain for students; it's just a business. I do like the pharmacy because the staff are very friendly and approachable, but honestly, it is not a student facility. There's been one next to the slipper for years.

I'll give you the astro turf pitches.

What's happening to the barber? Is that being relocated or is it just gone?

On a side note, I'd be a little worried about some societies (probably smaller, more isolated) not hearing about this until term starts, which will be after the deadline given to move everything out of the hub.

Urizen

Fiftysix wrote: »

This is bollox. Societies have lost their little area at the top of the hub? Who cares?

Lose the attitude and this is correct. The area in the Helix is much more secure, accessed just as easily and provides a much better storage space. Music Soc still have their practice area, it's just in the Helix now. The pool tables are being relocated, not dumped. It's nothing but a change of scenery, no harm, no foul.

Fiftysix wrote: »

The seminar room lay empty for a huge amount of time of the week, then when it was used it was by 6 people in stocs, and the anime and manga, who are they only ones who could have had any problem with it.

And ArtSoc twice a week, FotoSoc, BookSoc, and Japanese Soc, to name a few off the top of my head. The room was mostly empty during lecture times, aside from AGMs, EGMs and the like. In the evenings, it was in demand and no alternative was either offered nor given.

andrew163 wrote: »

However, that's a tangent to this topic; destroying the seminar room was an SU decision (go them)

It was the best decision they could make at the time. Those X-Boxes had to go somewhere after the Mezz in the Canteen was closed. Same reason the Macs are in the Union now.

andrew163 wrote: »

What's happening to the barber? Is that being relocated or is it just gone?

The barber is hopefully relocating to another area. Where exactly and when are still undecided.

andrew163 wrote: »

On a side note, I'd be a little worried about some societies (probably smaller, more isolated) not hearing about this until term starts, which will be after the deadline given to move everything out of the hub.

There was an AllSoc sent out yesterday, all societies should've gotten that and their committees have more than enough time to organise their stuff. Also, the stuff in the equipment room was largely from 6 or 7 societies, so that particular move doesn't even affect everyone.

Bear in mind, this is just a stage in the ongoing development of the Hub. Hopefully, there will soon be a viable alternative for the lost seminar room. Overall, I'm confident that this will be an improvement.

stringy

myk wrote: »

I hear rumours.

hearsay, don't panic, speculate or even bother worrying until someone has at least investigated the rumours

gizmo

Fiftysix wrote: »

This is bollox. Societies have lost their little area at the top of the hub? Who cares?

Apart from Redbrick (who as far as i know have been catered for) the snooker club and a very small part of music soc. That area has been used as a place for societies to fúck their stuff in, without any regard for anything else.
There is nothing there but a waste of space, stop moaning about it for the sake of it.
"Losing" the seminar room was a good thing for students, it brought people into the hub that had never been there before. The seminar room lay empty for a huge amount of time of the week, then when it was used it was by 6 people in stocs, and the anime and manga, who are they only ones who could have had any problem with it. The SPC or SLC whatever they are now, will come up with an alternative arrangement!

The HMC have little or no power of what happens, despite all your glorifies views of it. The fact that their is 3 student voices on it means nothing cuz when it comes down to it, it is what the university wants to do.The student body has not funded 100% of the hub, contrary to popular belief, DCU funded half it, and it is on the DCU grounds. They have full rights to do whatever they want.


This move takes the pressure of an entire school and enables them to teach to a higher standard than before, that is what you go to college for.

Evidently talking out of your arse is something you've learned in college too... :rolleyes:

I'm sure lots of societies care that they've lost their space, I'm assuming you're one of those who haven't otherwise you wouldn't be so blasé about it. People aren't moaning about it for the sake of it, it was an extremely useful space for many of the societies and, on top of the loss of the Seminar Room, means that the Hub is basically useless for societies now outside of whatever usage people can get out of the Old Bar. Said loss, as pointed out for other people, was not a good thing in the slightest. No alternative arrangements were provided following it's loss and it was left to the societies themselves to come up with alternative arrangements.

The HMC issue was also touched upon earlier and thoroughly refused, unless of course you think a legally binding document results in people having no say?

Noodleworm

This defiantly makes it difficult when equipment is needed in the Hub.
For example, Gamessocs console gaming on Wednesdays requires Big Tvs, consoles and the Rock Band kit to to carried to the Old Bar.
No problem for about 2 people when we just had to make a few trips up the stairs and take them down the lift. Now we carry it across the campus, and hope to hell it doesn't rain.

Garseys

I feel really sorry for gamessoc because it hits them the hardest. Art and AMS both relocated to the Grattan for events last year after the seminar room closing so it works ok for them I guess.

Im sure the SLC will provide(or grant) something along the lines of a trolley and tarp for their equipment.

Anyway societies have had massive trouble last year with security closing up the Den after 6pm...

We'll see how the arrangement goes...

public_enemy

Whatever about the moving of the equipment room, the fact that Hub space is being taken away by the University for classrooms is pretty disgraceful all by itself.

Urizen

Noodleworm wrote: »

This defiantly makes it difficult when equipment is needed in the Hub.
For example, Gamessocs console gaming on Wednesdays requires Big Tvs, consoles and the Rock Band kit to to carried to the Old Bar.
No problem for about 2 people when we just had to make a few trips up the stairs and take them down the lift. Now we carry it across the campus, and hope to hell it doesn't rain.

Don't worry about it. If needs be, GamesSoc won't be begrudged a trolley and tarps, as Garseys said. Other options are also being explored.

myk

Fiftysix wrote: »

The HMC have little or no power of what happens, despite all your glorifies views of it. The fact that their is 3 student voices on it means nothing cuz when it comes down to it, it is what the university wants to do.The student body has not funded 100% of the hub, contrary to popular belief, DCU funded half it, and it is on the DCU grounds. They have full rights to do whatever they want.

HMC has 4 student reps on a committee of 7. It was a deliberate majority. The management of the student centre was negotiated by student reps in order to keep the students in control of their centre. These concessions were won by student reps back in the late 1990s and seem now to have been conceeded.

Fiftysix wrote: »

This move takes the pressure of an entire school and enables them to teach to a higher standard than before, that is what you go to college for.

Is the new space being used to teach undergrad modules, or to teach English to outsiders for a profit?

Cy_Revenant

myk wrote: »

Is the new space being used to teach undergrad modules, or to teach English to outsiders for a profit?

If it's the language school, then it would be English to outsiders for profit.

TheChrisD

I've just happened to stumble across these videos on YouTube. They make me both sad and angry at the same time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5EDWF3JUFI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mu6_4npZ2dg

irish_boy90

Those Videos make me very sad

myk

And this what it is being used for http://www.english.dcu.ie/

Sephiroth_vg

WTF ?? the Hub is supposed to be for the students only! :@ damn u goverment policies..the government wants to up the number of international students in ireland to 125,000 from 100,000 by 2014..
but why..WHY the hub!

Tiroskan

Depressing.

myk

Sephiroth_vg wrote: »

WTF ?? the Hub is supposed to be for the students only! :@ damn u goverment policies..the government wants to up the number of international students in ireland to 125,000 from 100,000 by 2014..
but why..WHY the hub!

I imagine it isn't about government policy (directly) but DCU making more money. To study in these classrooms you don't have to be a DCU student, just pay a fee.

Cy_Revenant

Sephiroth_vg wrote: »

WTF ?? the Hub is supposed to be for the students only! :@ damn u goverment policies..the government wants to up the number of international students in ireland to 125,000 from 100,000 by 2014..
but why..WHY the hub!

I don't really think this has anything to do with government policy, as the people learning English here won't be students proper.

Also, in regards to an increase in foreign students: The more the merrier.

*shadow*

Protest anyone?

myk

*shadow* wrote: »

Protest anyone?

Against who? It is the 4 student reps on Hub Management Committee who have the power to stop this.

KenHy

Unfortunately it is probabaly had the power Myk, it looks to me like theres no going back on this now.

To me it looks like the university makes agreements with students knowing that in 5-6 years max all involved will have moved on and they can forget them if convenient to university authorities. A similar agreement was made in the planing stages for the pool complex that would allow it's use by student clubs and societies which never happened.

myk

KenHy wrote: »

Unfortunately it is probabaly had the power Myk, it looks to me like theres no going back on this now.

To me it looks like the university makes agreements with students knowing that in 5-6 years max all involved will have moved on and they can forget them if convenient to university authorities. A similar agreement was made in the planing stages for the pool complex that would allow it's use by student clubs and societies which never happened.

I would think that the Student Centre Agreement should be more binding and permanent. There was a referendum to approve it. There is to my knowledge still an annual fee being charged to students for the cost of the student centre when they pay their registration fee. And students reps to my knowledge still make a majority of the HUB management committee (they are or should be a rep from the SU exec, a rep from SPC or whatever it is called these days, a rep from the SCC and the Manager of OSL).

This is the kind of information that is passed on each year. I was a rep on HUB management committee and knew about all this even though I wasn't in college when the student centre agreement was signed. I passed on that info to those who came after me. Where was the link broken?

An enterprising student should hunt down a copy of the Student Centre Agreement. It is a legally binding document. There should be at least one copy on file in the OSL, if not with the SU President.

Tiroskan

We're kind of screwed now though. They already have the building work done, there's no going back. Why wasn't this brought to students' attention while there still may have been something we could do about it?

myk

Tiroskan wrote: »

We're kind of screwed now though. They already have the building work done, there's no going back. Why wasn't this brought to students' attention while there still may have been something we could do about it?

If you are a current student then you should ask your student reps on the Hub Management Committee.

Einstein?

English mother****er do you speak it?

That's their motto.

irish_boy90

Tiroskan wrote: »

We're kind of screwed now though. They already have the building work done, there's no going back. Why wasn't this brought to students' attention while there still may have been something we could do about it?

This was done over the summer and didn't didn't exactly let people know.
Societies were getting kicked out of the equipment room and all we really got was an e-mail saying our stuff had been tossed in the old bar. I know a SLC member who I was talking to over the summer over what was going on and they didn't even know anything. The only reason we even know anything was going on was that redbrick were told they were bing moved before the equipment room move.

If they tried to do it now they wouldn't be able to get away with it, was done over the summer for a reason. Very sneaky.

myk

irish_boy90 wrote: »

This was done over the summer and didn't didn't exactly let people know.
Societies were getting kicked out of the equipment room and all we really got was an e-mail saying our stuff had been tossed in the old bar. I know a SLC member who I was talking to over the summer over what was going on and they didn't even know anything. The only reason we even know anything was going on was that redbrick were told they were bing moved before the equipment room move.

If they tried to do it now they wouldn't be able to get away with it, was done over the summer for a reason. Very sneaky.

If it was done without the sanction of the Hub Management Committee, then the student reps should have legal recourse to stop it.

Decisions like this can't be made unilaterally by the college. Without the authorisation of the Hub Management Committee there is no authorisation for this change in use of space. When I was on Hub Management Committee...oh about 8 or 9 years ago we used to meet over the summer.

robby^5

irish_boy90 wrote: »

If they tried to do it now they wouldn't be able to get away with it, was done over the summer for a reason. Very sneaky.

With that and the decision to change their name and reinstate (they're calling it new, but have yet to explain what has changed) a society previously disbanded, I worry that this years SLC are on a bit of a power trip.

I can only hope that the societies keep them in check, specifically on following the rules of their own constitution.

phantom_lord

Are we not still paying for the loan for the Hub through that extra €35 registration fee?

Carri

phantom_lord wrote: »

Are we not still paying for the loan for the Hub through that extra €35 registration fee?

€38 not €35. iirc.

Diarmsquid

Carri wrote: »

€38 not €35. iirc.

How do people know all this? Can we read it somewhere?

tomar-re

robby^5 wrote: »

With that and the decision to change their name and reinstate (they're calling it new, but have yet to explain what has changed) a society previously disbanded, I worry that this years SLC are on a bit of a power trip.

I can only hope that the societies keep them in check, specifically on following the rules of their own constitution.

Well I won't comment on anyone having a power trip but they would first have to let people see their constitution, I asked for it twice in the past and never got it. I don't know anyone that has read it fully or what it says.
How can we hold them to the deal if we don't have the contract?

The same goes for every deal with the Hub, the sports complex and any other thing we are getting charged extra for as a DCU student. The deals were made before we came to college by people who represented us but we never hear what the deals were and how much we were paying.

My favorite example is the bar, until 2 years ago we had to pay bar membership to the sports complex club bar while we all paid for the contribution to the loan repayment. Why is it that we are were asked to pay this extra fee, it is because nobody gets told anything about the deals that get made? We don't know or don't get told and the university forget the deals after 3 years cos nobody is around who remembers.

Prof_Shmad

*shadow* wrote: »

Protest anyone?

Doesnt seem like a bad idea... Maybe im just a little clueless but why cant the just open the oldbar and whack a few pool tables in there? are they converting it into something too? still sucks about the storage. I'd say its a melt for societies that have a lot of stuff..

phantom_lord

Carri wrote: »

€38 not €35. iirc.

The point was if taking a chunk of what was meant to be student facilities wasn't bad enough surely we shouldn't still be paying for a building that's now being used hold English classes for outside students. What happened the rest of the pool tables btw?

myk

It seems there was an article in the current College View on this issue. The article reports that the move was supported by the SU President and the SPC chairperson. As with the decision to change the seminar room into an Xbox room this appears to me to be a bad, short-sighted move by DCU student reps.

KenHy

Yes, apparently the oldbar is to go too with retail units taking it's place. Huge loss to the societies that use it and to SU events which will have significantly less space and hence capacity.

robby^5

So we the students are paying, yearly, for a student centre to have retail outlets to take more money from us? Where are the amenities for students?

What a joke.

myk

robby^5 wrote: »

So we the students are paying, yearly, for a student centre to have retail outlets to take more money from us? Where are the amenities for students?

What a joke.

Ask your student reps. They are the ones making the decisions on this!

You voted for them!

irish_boy90

Can I have my 38 euro back so?
You know, since we pay for a student center that isn't a student center anymore.

myk wrote: »

Ask your student reps. They are the ones making the decisions on this!

You voted for them!

Believe this was decided over the summer when there were no reps. It was really just the SU we had jsut elected to defend us and they did nothing and didn't even tell us about it.

Worst SU in years, they sold us out before the semester even started.

myk

irish_boy90 wrote: »

Believe this was decided over the summer when there were no reps. It was really just the SU we had jsut elected to defend us and they did nothing and didn't even tell us about it.

SPC and SCC reps (or whatever they are called these days) are elected before the summer break. In my time in college the SPC and SCC reps on Hub Management Committee attended meetings during the summer. I certainly did when the management of the bar was up for tender and I sat on the Hub Management Committee, and that wasn't in anyway unusual.