What's the story on the trains?

rx8

Maybe someone on here who works for IE can enlighten me.

All day I see drunks and junkies use their bus pass to bring their buddies with them on the bus and on the LUAS.They know about the bus and luas policy of allowing a partner to accompany a pass holder when travelling, even if they don't have a pass that says 'companion' on it!

My problem though is with Irish Rail, who will allow my mother to travel on my father's pass and vice-versa, but won't allow my mother to bring my sister with her on her pass. Why is this. Surely if Dublin bus have a policy concerning this, then it should be CIE policy across the board?

Maybe it's just the pr*ck in Newbridge station that is the problem, but I'd like to know if there is any IE people here who know why this happens.

Thanks.

shamwari

Two things:

Firstly the Luas has nothing to do with CIE. They do not operate it.

Secondly, who can or can't travel on as pass is determined by its terms which are set by the Dept of Social Protection, and not Irish Rail. Make sure your sister is entitled to travel before you take it up with the station.

foggy_lad

rx8 wrote: »

Maybe someone on here who works for IE can enlighten me.

All day I see drunks and junkies use their bus pass to bring their buddies with them on the bus and on the LUAS.They know about the bus and luas policy of allowing a partner to accompany a pass holder when travelling, even if they don't have a pass that says 'companion' on it!

My problem though is with Irish Rail, who will allow my mother to travel on my father's pass and vice-versa, but won't allow my mother to bring my sister with her on her pass. Why is this. Surely if Dublin bus have a policy concerning this, then it should be CIE policy across the board?

Maybe it's just the pr*ck in Newbridge station that is the problem, but I'd like to know if there is any IE people here who know why this happens.

Thanks.

there are two or three types of pass, a standard one for pensioners etc which allows the pass-holder only to travel but if accompanied by their "husband or wife" or hetrosexual partner they can also travel free. if accompanied by any other person then the other person is not entitled to free travel, this includes gay or lesbian partners who are not entitled to the same rights as hetrosexual partners in the eyes of CIE.

then there is a seperate "companion" pass which is usually given to anyone that may have difficulty travelling alone due to their condition ie epilepsy mobility impaired etc this "companion" pass allows any person over the age of 16 to travel free with the pass holder to assist them if required, this pass only allows for one other person to travel free so the companion can be the wife or hetrosexual partner of the holder or any other person over 16 but not both.

highdef

foggy_lad wrote: »

this includes gay or lesbian partners who are not entitled to the same rights as hetrosexual partners in the eyes of CIE.

Looks like a major case of discrimination there. Could someone bring this up in a court of law if they chose to?

rx8

shamwari wrote: »

Two things:

Firstly the Luas has nothing to do with CIE. They do not operate it.

Secondly, who can or can't travel on as pass is determined by its terms which are set by the Dept of Social Protection, and not Irish Rail. Make sure your sister is entitled to travel before you take it up with the station.

First, I know this ,as I work for DB.
Second, the pass states that can be used for travel by the 'holder,with/without spouse /partner'

foggy_lad wrote: »

there are two or three types of pass, a standard one for pensioners etc which allows the pass-holder only to travel but if accompanied by their "husband or wife" or hetrosexual partner they can also travel free. if accompanied by any other person then the other person is not entitled to free travel, this includes gay or lesbian partners who are not entitled to the same rights as hetrosexual partners in the eyes of CIE.

then there is a seperate "companion" pass which is usually given to anyone that may have difficulty travelling alone due to their condition ie epilepsy mobility impaired etc this "companion" pass allows any person over the age of 16 to travel free with the pass holder to assist them if required, this pass only allows for one other person to travel free so the companion can be the wife or hetrosexual partner of the holder or any other person over 16 but not both.

The pass does not have a red stripe saying 'Companion'.
This does not stop someone bringing a 'same sex partner' with them on the bus/luas.
I am fully aware of the terms of the equality legislation and also DB posted notices in garages to inform staff of the company position. It is my understanding that if I was to pull up one of these pass holders while attempting to travel with their 'same-sex' partner, then I would be left high and dry by the company should an equality case come out of it.

My question was about the rail in particular, who don't seem to follow the same practices that the bus/luas follow.
thanks.

Oliver1985

Im suprised the government has not got rid of the free travel yet!!
Its a disgrace that all junkies get it

rx8

highdef wrote: »

Looks like a major case of discrimination there. Could someone bring this up in a court of law if they chose to?

see my reply above:D

Cookie_Monster

rx8 wrote: »

The pass does not have a red stripe saying 'Companion'.

rx8 wrote: »

My problem though is with Irish Rail, who will allow my mother to travel on my father's pass and vice-versa, but won't allow my mother to bring my sister with her on her pass. Why is this.

answered your own question there.

rx8

foggy_lad wrote: »

if accompanied by any other person then the other person is not entitled to free travel, this includes gay or lesbian partners who are not entitled to the same rights as hetrosexual partners in the eyes of CIE.

NOT TRUE, Dublin Bus do not see it this way, and have been brought to court many times to ensure it.This is why their policy changed some years ago.

rx8

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

answered your own question there.

Was wondering how long it would be before we heard from you
It does say though, "holder with/without spouse/partner", as stated above already.:mad:

harr

Oliver1985 wrote: »

Im suprised the government has not got rid of the free travel yet!!
Its a disgrace that all junkies get it

Why do you want the gov to get rid of free travel,i for 1 need my free pass.it is not just junkies that have them.what is needed is a credit card size pass with peoples photo on them this would stop the farud that happens with the pass.:(

Oliver1985

harr wrote: »

Why do you want the gov to get rid of free travel,i for 1 need my free pass.it is not just junkies that have them.what is needed is a credit card size pass with peoples photo on them this would stop the farud that happens with the pass.:(

Sure that doesnt stop anything even if it is a credit card thing the junkies still get them cause they have a "disibility"

Max Power1

Oliver1985 wrote: »

Im suprised the government has not got rid of the free travel yet!!
Its a disgrace that all junkies get it

+1

Ridiculous that anyone gets free travel these days, let alone scum/junkies who would rob you blind (or worse) as soon as look at you

rx8

harr wrote: »

Why do you want the gov to get rid of free travel,i for 1 need my free pass.it is not just junkies that have them.what is needed is a credit card size pass with peoples photo on them this would stop the farud that happens with the pass.:(

+1
Personally I think you should be allowed to travel for a reduced fare, (50c maybe),If you have a valid pass,complete with ID.
Otherwise, 'on yer bike' (or someone elses probably).

foggy_lad

rx8 wrote: »

First, I know this ,as I work for DB.
Second, the pass states that can be used for travel by the 'holder,with/without spouse /partner'



The pass does not have a red stripe saying 'Companion'.
This does not stop someone bringing a 'same sex partner' with them on the bus/luas.
I am fully aware of the terms of the equality legislation and also DB posted notices in garages to inform staff of the company position. It is my understanding that if I was to pull up one of these pass holders while attempting to travel with their 'same-sex' partner, then I would be left high and dry by the company should an equality case come out of it.

My question was about the rail in particular, who don't seem to follow the same practices that the bus/luas follow.
thanks.

the pass states with/without partner or husband/wife so all social welfare passes allow the holders spouse/partner to travel with them for free regardless of the spouse having free travel or not.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/social-welfare/social-welfare-payments/extra-social-welfare-benefits/free_travel

Spouses and companions

If you have a free travel pass and you are married or cohabiting (that is, living with a man or woman as husband and wife), you are entitled to a Free Travel Pass which allows your partner to accompany you free of charge when travelling. (This does not apply to person's under age 66 who are in receipt of Carer's Allowance or who are nominated carers for people getting Constant Attendance Allowance or Prescribed Relatives Allowance from the Department of Social Protection).

In addition, some people who are unable to use the pass because they are unable to travel alone may get a Companion Free Travel Pass. This allows the holder to be accompanied by any person over 16 years of age, free of charge.

http://www.welfare.ie/EN/Publications/SW40/Pages/4Cananybodyjoinmewhentravelling.aspx

Your Spouse or Partner

If you qualify for a Free Travel Pass and you are married or cohabiting (that is, living with a man or woman as husband and wife), you may get a Free Travel Pass that allows your spouse or partner to join you for free when travelling. This does not apply if you are under age 66 and you are getting Carer’s Allowance or you are a nominated carer for a person who gets Constant Attendance Allowance or Prescribed Relatives Allowance from this Department.

If you are married you will get the correct type of pass (to allow your spouse to accompany you free of charge) whether you apply for a Free Travel Pass or get one automatically.

If you are cohabiting, you must apply for this type of pass by completing registration form FT 1. If you already have a Free Travel Pass (single status), you should return it with the registration form FT 1.
A companion (if you cannot travel alone)

You may be eligible to get a Free Travel Companion Pass if you are medically assessed as unfit to travel alone. This type of pass allows any one person, aged 16 or over, to accompany you for free, when travelling. See Appendix 1 for the conditions for getting a Free Travel Companion Pass.

form FT 1 only allows for applications to be made by cohabiting couples living as "husband & wife" and this implies for CIE that they must not be a same sex couple.

rx8 wrote: »

NOT TRUE, Dublin Bus do not see it this way, and have been brought to court many times to ensure it.This is why their policy changed some years ago.

can you link to something from dublin bus relating to them changing their policy on this? afaik all CIE companies still follow the "husband/wife" line that your spouse/partner cant be of the same sex.

Cookie_Monster

rx8 wrote: »

Was wondering how long it would be before we heard from you

rx8 wrote: »

It does say though, "holder with/without spouse/partner", as stated above already.:mad:

and your sister hardly qualifies as you mother's partner though, does she?

foggy_lad

Oliver1985 wrote: »

Im suprised the government has not got rid of the free travel yet!!
Its a disgrace that all junkies get it

Oliver1985 wrote: »

Sure that doesnt stop anything even if it is a credit card thing the junkies still get them cause they have a "disibility"

junkies do not get free travel just because of their addictions otherwise alcoholics and smokers would also be entitled to it, if you are a junkie you most likely jhave underlying mental/psychological conditions which will have to be quite serious to allow you qualify for free travel! you or i cant just write to the social welfare and ask for free travel it is given on the reccommendation of a doctor who diagnoses you with a qualifying condition!

pensioners and those with disabilities such as downs syndrome and several other disabilities qualify for free travel as do those with mobility impairments and the visibly impaired.

http://www.welfare.ie/EN/Publications/SW40/Pages/2HowdoIqualifyforfreetravel.aspx

To qualify for free travel with a Free Travel Pass, you must be living permanently in the State and be aged 66 or over. If you are under age 66 and permanently living in the State, you will qualify for a Free Travel Pass if one of the statements below applies to you:

* You are getting one of the following payments:
o Invalidity Pension,
o Blind Pension,
o Disability Allowance,
o Incapacity Supplement or Workmen's Compensation with Disablement Pension, for at least 12 months,
o Carer's Allowance, (you may get a single status pass only, if you are under age 66),
o a social security invalidity payment, or a similar payment, for at least 12 months, from a country covered by EC Regulations, or from a country with which Ireland has a Bilateral Social Security Agreement.
or
* You are a specified carer for a person getting Constant Attendance Allowance or Prescribed Relatives Allowance from this Department (you may get a single status pass only, if you are under age 66), or
* You are a specified carer for a person getting Constant Attendance Allowance or Prescribed Relatives Allowance from this Department (you may get a single status pass only, if you are under age 66),
or
* You live in a Health Service Executive (HSE) approved residential care and you were previously getting either Disability Allowance (from this Department) or Disabled Person’s Maintenance Allowance (from the Health Service Executive),
or
* You are blind or severely visually impaired and you satisfy the medical conditions for the Blind Pension.
* You are a widow or widower aged 60 to 65 inclusive and your late spouse held a Free Travel Pass and before their death, you lived together permanently. In this case, you must be getting one of the following payments:
o State Pension (Transition) (from age 65),
o Widow's or Widower's Contributory Pension,
o Widow's or Widower's Non-Contributory Pension,
o One-Parent Family Payment,
o Widow's or Widower's Pension under the Occupational Injuries Benefits Scheme,
o a similar social security payment from a country covered by EC Regulations, or from a country with which Ireland has a Bilateral Social Security Agreement. (See below for details),
o an ordinary Garda Widow’s Pension from the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform.

i dont see JUNKIE anywhere on the list!

for your spouse/partner to qualify you must have a different pass not the standard "single" pass which has a space inside for the signiture of spouse/partner and should state on the front that spouse/partner is allowed travel. if you were married at the time your pass was issued you will get this pass by default.

rx8

foggy_lad wrote: »

can you link to something from dublin bus relating to them changing their policy on this? afaik all CIE companies still follow the "husband/wife" line that your spouse/partner cant be of the same sex.

I don't think a link would be available to something that the company would rather not be common knowledge.They did post notices to all staff in depots some time ago.

Oliver1985

foggy_lad wrote: »

junkies do not get free travel just because of their addictions otherwise alcoholics and smokers would also be entitled to it, if you are a junkie you most likely jhave underlying mental/psychological conditions which will have to be quite serious to allow you qualify for free travel! you or i cant just write to the social welfare and ask for free travel it is given on the reccommendation of a doctor who diagnoses you with a qualifying condition!

pensioners and those with disabilities such as downs syndrome and several other disabilities qualify for free travel as do those with mobility impairments and the visibly impaired.

http://www.welfare.ie/EN/Publications/SW40/Pages/2HowdoIqualifyforfreetravel.aspxi dont see JUNKIE anywhere on the list!

Well its hardly gonna say "Junkie" on the list, Im sure they come up with some medical condition to the "welfare" .

rx8

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

and your sister hardly qualifies as you mother's partner though, does she?

This is not for the guy in the ticket office to say or assume otherwise!!

harr

Max Power1 wrote: »

+1

Ridiculous that anyone gets free travel these days, let alone scum/junkies who would rob you blind (or worse) as soon as look at you

this pisses me off i got so hard to get my pass and they just hand them out to junkies

Cookie_Monster

rx8 wrote: »

This is not for the guy in the ticket office to say or assume otherwise!!

and its not for your mother to try and openly abuse the system either

Oliver1985

rx8 wrote: »

This is not for the guy in the ticket office to say or assume otherwise!!

Great example of fraud here, your coming on here abusing the guy in the ticket office because he is trying to do his job and all your interested in is fraud? Cop on

foggy_lad

Oliver1985 wrote: »

Well its hardly gonna say "Junkie" on the list, Im sure they come up with some medical condition to the "welfare" .

Oliver1985 wrote: »

Great example of fraud here, your coming on here abusing the guy in the ticket office because he is trying to do his job and all your interested in is fraud? Cop on

it is not your or any CIE operatives job to decide who is or is not entitled to free travel please stick to your own job and try to do it well and leave the doctors and social welfare people to theirs!

Max Power1

foggy_lad wrote: »

it is not your or any CIE operatives job to decide who is or is not entitled to free travel please stick to your own job and try to do it well and leave the doctors and social welfare people to theirs!

It IS the CIE operative's job to ensure that travel passes are used in accordance with the T&Cs and that only those allowed to travel are travelling under them.

foggy_lad

Max Power1 wrote: »

It IS the CIE operative's job to ensure that travel passes are used in accordance with the T&Cs and that only those allowed to travel are travelling under them.

and the only way they are allowed to do this is either confiscate the pass if they suspect fraudulant use(but be prepared for a court case), or ask the holder for a sample of their signiture to compare with the signiture on the pass.

Oliver1985

foggy_lad wrote: »

it is not your or any CIE operatives job to decide who is or is not entitled to free travel please stick to your own job and try to do it well and leave the doctors and social welfare people to theirs!

I am a doctor so ill stick to it!

foggy_lad

rx8 wrote: »

I don't think a link would be available to something that the company would rather not be common knowledge.They did post notices to all staff in depots some time ago.

there was an equality case against irish rail some years ago 2003 i think taken by the equality agency on behalf of two elderly gay men and their case was upheld here and they were both compensated etc but a few months later the minister changed the equality laws to specifically exclude same sex partnerships and spouses. i cant see dublin bus or bus eireann being any different to irish rail on this.

foggy_lad

Oliver1985 wrote: »

I am a doctor so ill stick to it!

so are you employed by the social welfare to examine people for qualifying for payments?

Oliver1985

foggy_lad wrote: »

so are you employed by the social welfare to examine people for qualifying for payments?

Are you?

Max Power1

foggy_lad wrote: »

and the only way they are allowed to do this is either confiscate the pass if they suspect fraudulant use(but be prepared for a court case), or ask the holder for a sample of their signiture to compare with the signiture on the pass.

Or not allow someone not qualified as a "qualified passenger" onto the train without paying for a ticket

foggy_lad

Max Power1 wrote: »

Or not allow someone not qualified as a "qualified passenger" onto the train without paying for a ticket

? ?

foggy_lad

Oliver1985 wrote: »

Are you?

no i am not and i am not shouting that junkies should not be given free travel passes,

if they are entitled to them they should get them just like all the pensioners and disabled. they are in effect disabled by their addiction.

it is not for you to decide who is entitled to free travel but if you are in fact on a social welfare panel of doctors you should immediately bring your posts here to their attention in case there may be some conflict in your descision making.

Max Power1

foggy_lad wrote: »

? ?

Did i stutter?

schemingbohemia

foggy_lad wrote: »

there was an equality case against irish rail some years ago 2003 i think taken by the equality agency on behalf of two elderly gay men and their case was upheld here and they were both compensated etc but a few months later the minister changed the equality laws to specifically exclude same sex partnerships and spouses. i cant see dublin bus or bus eireann being any different to irish rail on this.

Got a source for the bolded part of your quote?

Oliver1985

foggy_lad wrote: »

no i am not and i am not shouting that junkies should not be given free travel passes,

if they are entitled to them they should get them just like all the pensioners and disabled. they are in effect disabled by their addiction.

it is not for you to decide who is entitled to free travel but if you are in fact on a social welfare panel of doctors you should immediately bring your posts here to their attention in case there may be some conflict in your descision making.

Seems to be from your posts on this forum everyone else is wrong your right, Im not gonna get into it with you!
Living in Carlow you obviously have not have to put up with junkies like we did on the rosslare line and on the luas and other city centre services!!!

PEACE OUT!!!:mad:

foggy_lad

schemingbohemia wrote: »

Got a source for the bolded part of your quote?

a basic outline of the whole sordid affair here

and the ministers reaction was to introduce the social welfare (miscellaneous provisions) act 2004 here which basically states that a spouse or partner must not be the same sex.

Cookie_Monster

foggy_lad wrote: »

a basic outline of the whole sordid affair here

and the ministers reaction was to introduce the social welfare (miscellaneous provisions) act 2004 here which basically states that a spouse or partner must not be the same sex.

No gays, pussies only :pac:

foggy_lad

Oliver1985 wrote: »

Seems to be from your posts on this forum everyone else is wrong your right, Im not gonna get into it with you!
Living in Carlow you obviously have not have to put up with junkies like we did on the rosslare line and on the luas and other city centre services!!!

PEACE OUT!!!:mad:

i would hate to go to my own GP and have them bawl me out of the surgery for daring to have an addiction whether it be drink gambling valium or other drugs like cocaine or heroin.

there is nothing to get into either, to say that junkies are not or should not be entitled to free travel when they meet the qualifying criteria is just wrong!

and carlow has its fair share of drug addicts junkies winos etc who often get put off the bus for drinking or just for being in too much of a state to travel but very often these people are left on the bus or train because staff dont bother doing their job.

bmaxi

Oliver1985 wrote: »

I am a doctor so ill stick to it!

Really? I knew doctors were notorious for bad handwriting, I didn't realise it extended to punctuation. :rolleyes:



When I worked for Dublin City Services, I remember being called to my District Manager's office and told off for having the cheek to want to inspect a travel pass.
It turned out the guy was a big cheese in the big house (Heuston) and he didn't take kindly to having his pass inspected by a pleb. I never bothered my ar*e again.

foggy_lad

most travel passes are held by people who are entitled to have them and to try to say they are not without giving any justification except shouting about junkies on the luas is just nonsense but every employee of CIE or irish rail bus eireann oand dublin bus is entitled as part of their days work to inspect any travel pass presented and to ask for a sample of the persons signiture to compare it with signiture on the pass if they have suspicions.

fh041205

I want to add something here. I did work for IR briefly once upon a time and I stopped a member of the travelling community (not local so didn't recognise him) from using his pass to bring a male friend to Belfast I think. I received quite the barage of abuse for about 10 minutes afterward (including him repeatedly headbutting the bullet-proof 1-inch thick window!!!). His ramblings included the 'he's my partner' argument which I knew to be false from his first visit the previous week. I told him I'd take the pass off him if he tried the same thing again and he never came back. I would hope that other employees would do the same with people who abuse the passes.

foggy_lad

Cie Irish rail bus eireann and Dublin bus staff are ultimately responsible for fraud prevention in checking passes and confiscating those where fraud is suspected.

AlekSmart

Foggy_Lad posted :-

The ministers reaction was to introduce the social welfare (miscellaneous provisions) act 2004 here which basically states that a spouse or partner must not be the same sex.

This is the current leglislative situation regarding the accompaning partner/spouse.

It is worth noting,particularly if you work on Public Transport,that the individual who took the original,and successful,case against the Government remains The only person in the State who is entitled to have his (named) same-sex partner accompany him on his Free Travel Pass.

The immediate aftermath of the case resulted in the then legislation being essentially illegal and therefore the relevant Public Transport Operators were memo`d by the DSFA advising of the removal of the Gender restrictions.

The resultant memo was also in Poster format and was strategically placed in all Dublin Bus garages.

The Ministers swift reaction to what represented a massive potential yawning chasm in funding terms,then resulted in a regularization of the situation and a reversion to the original gender restrictions,save for the appellant.

However,the new memo from the DSFA was most certainly not given the same high-visibility placement of the initial one.
In my Depot it was hidden in the Health & Safety noticeboard and then for less than a week.

The reason....?

A total fear,on the company`s part,of confrontation.

The initial large-format poster made mention of the requirement on drivers to excercise "discretion" when questioning any DSFA Pass holder on the issue.

It appears that the DSFA were unable to provide an estimate of the extra persons who would be able to travel free,a situation which represented a potential zero-income situation if taken to its conclusion,as well it might have been.

In the course of my daily duties I would regularly inspect DSP passes,sometimes randomly,but more often than not as a result of the Pass Holder having made it obvious that they were abusing the scheme.

The number of people who declare that they do not understand the meaning of the words PASS HOLDER ONLY typed in Upper Case on the front of their pass is truly frighteneing.

The DSP Free Pass also has the most ambigious possible wording on its inside face which states something along the lines of..."The Pass Holder may be accompanied by a Partner/Spouse subject to the qualifier on the Front"...The "Qualifier" is of course the Upper Case wording on the front....byzantine indeed.

The Spouse/Partner issue is in reality only the tip of the Iceberg in what is a Free Travel system already well past collapse.
I have no idea how it`s funding is being maintained,but I do know that the level of misuse,abuse and simple fraud is beyond belief.

Nobody appears to give a damn any longer,with the Department of Social Protection being the greatest example of the malaise.

It should also be pointed out that the Restrictions on Free Travel use are a matter for the Issuing body,ie,the DSP.

NEITHER THE CIE GROUP OR ANY OTHER PUBLIC TRANSPORT OPERATOR ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR THE RULES AND REGULATIONS UNDER WHICH THE PASS IS ISSUED.

Attempts to portray the revenue protection actions of CIE group staff as being in some way Homophobic are simply incorrect.

If a Pass Holder has an entitlement to Spouse/Partner or Companion accompaniment then the matter ends there.

However,I and any other Public Transport employee am perfectly entitled to inspect a Pass to ensure it`s validity and correct use.

In the event of the Pass not being valid then I simply request the appropriate Fare.....the response to that request can vary enormously and in most cases dictates the entire tone of further action.

Most arm-chancers will immediately fling €1.15 into the machine in preference to any further inspection of their documents,these would be in the majority.

The greatest potential for disruption comes from those who have not read the explanitory documentation which came with their pass and for which they signed.

I had in the recent past,an unsavoury encounter with a Middle Eastern Gentleman who insisted that his Free Pass extended to his 4 children and another lady travelling with his wife,as they were his "Family" and he had been told by the "Officials" that all of his "Family" could travel free in his company.

He was most displeased to be challenged on this and told me I was being disrespectful to him by seking to check his pass.

However not for the first time do I look North of our border for a somewhat more realistic way of doing these things.....

http://www.nirailways.co.uk/seniorcitizenpass.asp

http://www.nirailways.co.uk/60plussmartpass.asp

http://www.nirailways.co.uk/60plussmartpass.asp

Someone somewhere within our Free Travel system needs to get real in short-order before everybody loses out on a very beneficial consession due to the greed and arrogance of others.

thomasj

We need to get real in examining how to ensure the travel pass doesn't become the elephant a few suggested things to do

Authorised partners:* partner should have a travel I'd to show they are an authorised partner

Dublin bus & Irish rail employees should have right of refusal after all they are the front line people who witness these things

Smart card with a monthly allowance: this should be
done to ensure people do not exploit the service

Authorisation process: smart cards in certain cases should be limited to travel within a boundary with an
application process for travel outside the boundary

* authorised partner is a travel companion irrespective of relation to holder of travel pass

rx8

Nice post Alek, I seem to have opened a right can of worms here.

My original post was not intended to enquire into the fraudulent use of a bus pass,but to enquire into the policy difference between IE and Bus atha cliath.
My mother is over 75 years of age and IMO she should have someone travel with her when she uses the train. I shall advise her to enquire into same immediately and hopefully she can exchange her current pass for a companion one.

The current situation that has been outlined by Alek above is extremely confusing, both for bus drivers and passengers alike.Maybe it's time that Dublin Bus 'grew a set' and manned up to these junkies and chancers who bring their 'bud' with them on their pass every time they get on a 77.

The second notice that is mentioned was not, as far as I know,displayed in my depot at all.Further enquiries shall be made!

mickydoomsux

rx8 wrote: »

The current situation that has been outlined by Alek above is extremely confusing, both for bus drivers and passengers alike.Maybe it's time that Dublin Bus 'grew a set' and manned up to these junkies and chancers who bring their 'bud' with them on their pass every time they get on a 77.

That's not Dublin Bus, Veiola (sp?) or even IE's choice. Our job is to issue tickets to free travel pass holders based on the pass they hold, it's not up to us who's entitled to what on their pass (companion/spouse/etc). The pass they hold is issued by the Dept of Social Welfare and their end of things is in need of huge reform. The passes are indeed handed out to junkies/alcoholics regardless of if they are seeking treatment. All the have to do is prove they have an addiction and they are then given a pass on grounds of disability.

You have situation where people are carrying cardboard passes with no photo ID required that give them unlimited travel, nationwide. Any trouble that happens on Intercity trains in almost 100% of cases is caused by someone with a free travel pass. I know of a case at the past weekend where the police had to be called to remove the same individual from a train on 3 seperate occasions because he was threating to assault IE staff because he was completely drunk off his ass. And yet he still couldn't have his pass taken from him. This fella is so cocky that he openly drinks on the train and in stations because he knows he's functionally untouchable.

All of the transport companies are in favour of a reform of the system but the DoSW is content to do nothing and just keep handing out these unlimited, ID-less passes to anyone and everyone. There are apparently 1 million+ in circulation at the moment. That's one in 4 people owning one. Something is wrong there.

rx8

This system, like everything else in this country,is rotten to the core.If I challenge some chancer tomorrow about his 'campanion' as he tries to board my bus, then I know I can expect a number of things to happen.
1, Lots of abuse and foul language as they head up the stairs.
2, A box.
3, 1 and 2 above.
4,They turn on their heels and get the next bus with the same pass, because he certainly isn't handing it over.

Their is nobody who really gives a fcuk, to be honest, and why would I risk 1 and 2 above when I can have option 4.

Smart cards are the only answer, and at that they should also require some sort of monetary contribution aswell.Untill then I'll just keep my head down and look after number 1 because I'm the only one who cares about me, nobody else does, particularly not Dublin Bus.

mickydoomsux

rx8 wrote: »

Untill then I'll just keep my head down and look after number 1 because I'm the only one who cares about me, nobody else does, particularly not Dublin Bus.

What you're describing is the frustration felt by a lot of frontline staff in public transport. For the most part, it's an easy job and the majority of people you deal with are great. And yet there isn't a week that goes by where i don't hear about some incident involving a passenger threatening a member of staff, and i work on one of the quieter lines. I, personally, was threatened with a screwdriver one day when i confronted a passenger who was trying to 'hold up' other passengers on a train with the same screwdriver. He had to be bodily removed by four cops who got his name and address off , TA-DA, his free travel pass. They also found a hacksaw and a couple of kitchen knives in his bag as well. Why should these people be allowed to travel with other people and also for free?

There is a culture of untouchability with a certain, unfortunenately large, sector of the travelling public who possess free travel passes. They know we can't do anything to them besides call the police, who'll basically just bring them off for a short drive and let them go again. Someone, either staff or a passenger, is going to get seriously hurt on either a train, a bus or the LUAS someday and only then will there be something done about this.

foggy_lad

Someone, either staff or a passenger, is going to get seriously hurt on either a train, a bus or the LUAS someday and only then will there be something done about this.

there will be security on the trains or a few busses for a few weeks then back to normal just in time for the scumbags release from te joy!

basically what is needed is for the law to be changed to allow for the guards to take a travel pass off anyone who is in the opinion of a senior guard causing trouble on public transport and return it to the social welfare section with notice to never re-issue any travel pass to this person again!

also cant irish rail get anti social orders against the troublemakers?

mickydoomsux

foggy_lad wrote: »

also cant irish rail get anti social orders against the troublemakers?

They probably could if they wanted to but i don't think higher management could be bothered to do anything about it.

Plus the way the legal system is, nothing would probably come of it because 'poor auld Anto can't help that the smack makes him a bit violent, shoore isn't it a terrible affliction'. The usual thing of the law being on the perpetrators side because he/she always has something 'wrong' with them.