Can you tax and insure a Category A or B Write Off?

newgirl2010

Hi all,

We've just been had, bought a car for a good price but have since found out its been a write off.

When we rang back the guy he says that he didnt know it was crashed but clearly he did. Its nct'd until jan 2012 but we're wondering now if that even stands?

We are happy to keep the car (well hes not offering a refund in any case) if its road worthy and able to be put back on the road again.

So disappointed .. alot of nasty people out there,
thanks in advance for any advice

Random

if it's cat a or b then it's not supposed to go back on the road to the best of my knowledge.

Atomic Pineapple

Random wrote: »

if it's cat a or b then it's not supposed to go back on the road to the best of my knowledge.

You'd be correct....

Insurance Write Offs wrote:

Category A Insurance Write Off - the vehicle must scrapped and no parts or components can be sold other than for scrap. Amounts vary but Category A Insurance Write Off vehicles can be very valuable. Consider some of the online companies that will buy you car 'what ever the condition.' If the insurance company are prepared to give you a settlement figure and the car wreckage then make sure you shop around the various websites for the best offers.

If all else fails try your local scrap metal dealer, they will often pay good money for scrap cars or unrepairable vehicles. Visit our Scrap Cars page for more details.

Category B Insurance Write Off - the vehicle must not be used again but non- structural and roadworthy parts and components may be recovered for use in other vehicles. Care must be taken to ensure that they are not critical components with important safety functions. Again there are several online companies who will offer significant amounts of money for Category B Insurance Write Off vehicles.


Category C Insurance Write Off - the vehicle is repairable but the parts and labour would exceed the value of the car. This is a tricky situation as there are plenty of amateur and professional mechanics who could use second hand parts to repair these vehicles at much lower prices than the list costs for parts and labour. Discuss this with your insurance company if you want to keep the car rather than have it written off.

Category D Insurance Write Off - the vehicle is economically repairable but other factors are involved that cause the insurer to declare the vehicle a write off. Perhaps the replacement car hire is too costly or it will take too long for a specialist part to be delivered. Again, discuss this with your insurance company if you want to keep the car.

Category X Insurance Write Off - the vehicle is easily repairable and may even be still roadworthy.
Unrecorded Insurance Write Off - the vehicle damage was not reported to the insurer or the driver was uninsured. The most common example is drivers who only have third party insurance but have had an accident that was their fault (usually not involving anyone else).

newgirl2010

Oh God thats just awful, some people have no morals, what a disaster

Atlantic Dawn

In Ireland we don't use Categories for write off's, once your car can pass the NCT it doesn't matter if it's 4 cars welded together once it looks ok on the day

newgirl2010

oh really? Because it passed its NCT in January, but I've a sneaky feeling it was crashed between January and now, how do I find out all this information, - obviously I'll need to make my insurance company aware of it will I or will they know already when they go to insure the reg? sorry for all the questions

exaisle

"If you buy a car from a private individual....your only right to redress is if the car is sold with a defect that would endanger people driving it."

That's a quote from www.citizensinformation.ie

If it's a cat A writeoff, then I suspect that you may have some redress. I suggest you contact Citizen's Information or the National Consumer Agency as soon as possible.

I'm not sure, but the Gardai might show an interest too....selling an unsafe car is not only unscrupulous, it's irresponsible and downright dangerous to the buyer and to other road users.

drunkmonkey

Take the car back and get a refund. Was it from a garage, trader or just an ordinary guy, either way get rid of it, make him take it back or drag his ass to court the conman.

What make of car was it?

drunkmonkey

Just to add to op's post about Garda intrest, I'm pretty sure selling a car like that is a road traffic offence. A Garda might confirm it for us but I'm nearly 100%

exaisle

Here's more information.....

http://www.consumerconnect.ie/eng/News_+_Research/Press%20Releases/Warning_on_written-off_cars.html

You should note that it's an offence to drive a dangerously defective vehicle.....

newgirl2010

Hi
thanks for all the quick replies, I rang the guards and he was a really nice guy on the phone, he rang me back half an hour later to say that its a civil matter not a criminal matter, but like you said if its now deemed dangerous to drive then we may have a case.

Who do I get onto to find out when exactly it was deemed a write off does anyone know?

newgirl2010

@drunkmoney its a little fiat punto for my mother 04, and in fairness its imacculate inside and outside, only give away is a slight slight damage to the passenger door but you woudl have to be told it was there to notice it

newgirl2010

@exaisle - yes of course we dont want to see my poor mother driving around in a crashed car thats unsafe! thats for sure. So we will be sorting it first thing in the morning, but we dont know where to start, the guy we bought it from on donedeal.ie says he never knew it was crashed but obviously he did

slimjimmc

I hope, now that you're aware of the car's potentially iffy condition, that you'll leave it parked up and not continue to drive it around.

newgirl2010

Hindsight is a great thing but for anyone else always always check www.mywheels.ie (its only 7 euro) for a check and at least if your in any way dodgy then its a clear yes it was written off or not.
cartell, motorcheck.ie etc all do them too more detailed ones but they are more expensive ranging up to 35 euro but in hindsight 35 euro is a cheap price to pay now!

shamwari

Even if a car was accident damaged, it does not mean that it is unsafe. There are thousands of cars on the roads that have had body panels, doors, bumpers etc. replaced following a prang and would be perfectly roadworthy once properly repaired. In short, if the car was properly repaired in it's entirety, and there are no outstanding structural issues with it, then I can see no reason why you cannot continue driving it.

The only way you can ascertain the roadworthiness or otherwise of the car is to have it professionally examined by an engineer or an equally experienced and competent person.

Still though, it is not a nice feeling to learn that your pride and joy was involved in an accident. I wish you well with this.

newgirl2010

slimjimmc wrote: »

I hope, now that you're aware of the car's potentially iffy condition, that you'll leave it parked up and not continue to drive it around.

no we will have to get it checked out by a garage, but thats not much good if its not going to be possible to tax or insure it?

drunkmonkey

newgirl2010 wrote: »

Hindsight is a great thing but for anyone else always always check www.mywheels.ie (its only 7 euro) for a check and at least if your in any way dodgy then its a clear yes it was written off or not.
cartell, motorcheck.ie etc all do them too more detailed ones but they are more expensive ranging up to 35 euro but in hindsight 35 euro is a cheap price to pay now!

It's not 100%, if the car was never recorded for insurance this whole system falls down, you should get a garda to check it on their system to see was it in a collision. You really need to do both.

newgirl2010

shamwari wrote: »

Still though, it is not a nice feeling to learn that your pride and joy was involved in an accident. I wish you well with this.

thank you ill keep you posted as to what happens

newgirl2010

drunkmonkey wrote: »

It's not 100%, if the car was never recorded for insurance this whole system falls down, you should get a garda to check it on their system to see was it in a collision. You really need to do both.

im presuming that it had to go through insurance in the first place and thats why its registered as a write off?

shamwari

drunkmonkey wrote: »

It's not 100%, if the car was never recorded for insurance this whole system falls down, you should get a garda to check it on their system to see was it in a collision. You really need to do both.

I don't think the Gardai will release such information - data protection legislation and so forth. Something like CarTel.ie will indicate if there was an insurance claim concerning the vehicle.

Even so, the consensus seems that the car has to be unsafe for the OP to pursue this. The OP has already said she would be happy to keep the car "if its road worthy and able to be put back on the road again." So I feel she should get it inspected and if it is not unsafe then she is back in action!

drunkmonkey

newgirl2010 wrote: »

im presuming that it had to go through insurance in the first place and thats why its registered as a write off?

Well if it's registered as an write off the car was meant to be disposed of. Do not put any of your family lives at risk or other road users by driving this car until it's been fully checked by an engineer. Either way the car should not be on the road.
Your also committing a road traffic offense if your drive the car.

It's a stones, I feel really sorry for you, I would pursue that seller with all my energy.

Henry Ford III

Granted hindsight is 20/20, but it's stunning how many people can still get badly caught in buying a "wrongun".

newgirl2010

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Well if it's registered as an write off the car was meant to be disposed of. Do not put any of your family lives at risk or other road users by driving this car until it's been fully checked by an engineer. Either way the car should not be on the road.
Your also committing a road traffic offense if your drive the car.

It's a stones, I feel really sorry for you, I would pursue that seller with all my energy.

dont worry no ones life will be put at risk until this is 100% safe to drive, its going to be checked as early as possible this week, and my mom can drive dads car for a few days until its resolved, but the guy hung up on me when I rang him today he told me he didnt know it was crashed, end of. sigh

newgirl2010

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Granted hindsight is 20/20, but it's stunning how many people can still get badly caught in buying a "wrongun".

i think what threw us was the nct was ok until jan 2012, so we figured it had to be fine, then on seeing the car its brilliant looking inside and out, and we said sure so what if the side door got a little bang sure its perfect otherwise, and now this....embarassing

Henry Ford III

newgirl2010 wrote: »

i think what threw us was the nct was ok until jan 2012, so we figured it had to be fine, then on seeing the car its brilliant looking inside and out, and we said sure so what if the side door got a little bang sure its perfect otherwise, and now this....embarassing

Interesting.

If you can prove that the crash was after the most recent NCT (try and find out was there an insurance payout) then you may indeed have a very strong case.

It's a civil matter though.

danjo

When you do get it checked out by a reputable garage make sure they give you a written report. You would need this if you are going to pursue the seller.

shamwari

OP, have you been told that the car is a right-off? Or has someone said that it has been in an accident>

newgirl2010

shamwari wrote: »

OP, have you been told that the car is a right-off? Or has someone said that it has been in an accident>

I have paid for a report on mywheels.ie which says that the car is a category A or B write off, thats as far as I've got at the moment

johnos1984

Was the car imported into Ireland?

The reason I ask is that we don't use the same kind of categorization system as the UK so the cat a/b may not mean the same thing in this case. In Ireland it is just written off. It could of just been in a small prang.

shamwari

newgirl2010 wrote: »

I have paid for a report on mywheels.ie which says that the car is a category A or B write off, thats as far as I've got at the moment

As someone posted earlier, the "Category A / B / C / D" classification system as used in the UK is not used here. So it is hard to ascertain exactly what they mean by saying the car is a Cat A or B write off.

The question that needs to be asked is "has the car been written off?" Yes or no. Rather than go through a run around, get your solicitor to write to the seller pointing out what the mywheels check indicates that the car was previously written off, and as he failed to represent this material fact to you, you want a full and unconditional refund.

newgirl2010

The car is not an import it's registered here it's off the road for the past three months

Divorce Referendum

Sorry to hear about your situation op, hopefully the car will be fine when you get it inspected. Just one question, when did ye suspect something was wrong? I understand you bought the car and were happy enough and then did the hpi check right?

newgirl2010

My uncle was saying that it was very good value and was there anything sinister like finance outstanding or anything so I did the check but in hindsight a lot of things he said like 'so it's your mother looking for the car as a run around it's perfect for that. A complete chancer

Divorce Referendum

newgirl2010 wrote: »

My uncle was saying that it was very good value and was there anything sinister like finance outstanding or anything so I did the check but in hindsight a lot of things he said like 'so it's your mother looking for the car as a run around it's perfect for that. A complete chancer

Ya some guys make aliving out of this, repairing and selling on write-offs have answers for everything. How does the car drive by the way? Anything seem out of the ordinary? Steering, brakes, tracking and alignment all good?

newgirl2010

Seems to drive ok power steering light coming on and steering getting heavier

Divorce Referendum

newgirl2010 wrote: »

Seems to drive ok power steering light coming on and steering getting heavier

Think that is a common enough fault on the punto. Some info here: http://reviews.ebay.ie/FIAT-PUNTO-ELECTRIC-STEERING_W0QQugidZ10000000009924015

If thats the worst thing that wrong with the car things might not be to bad pending a positive inspection this week.

R.O.R

If it's always been an Irish car, it's hard to see how it could be registered as a Cat A or B write off. I'd suspect there is something wrong with the Mywheels info.......

It's quite possible that is was written off as an uneconomical repair - it wouldn't take much to write off an 04 Punto. About €1,500 worth of damage would see that written off, and that could be dents on 2 panels.

djimi

Bear in mind a write off does not always mean massive structural damage; Ive heard plenty of stories of airbags going off causing the car to be written off for example, and its not unheard of for airbags to go off when there is a bang to the car (such as the dent in the door maybe).

That said, if this car was a write off then the seller should have known this, and I would be persuing them to get a full refund. There are plenty of perfectly decent honest car sellers out there, both private and dealers, so I would not be looking to line the pockets of a dishonest cowboy, even if the car is perfectly safe to drive. Make their life as awkward as you possibly can by dragging them thru the legal system until you get your money back.

shamwari

Divorce Referendum wrote: »

Think that is a common enough fault on the punto. Some info here: http://reviews.ebay.ie/FIAT-PUNTO-ELECTRIC-STEERING_W0QQugidZ10000000009924015

If thats the worst thing that wrong with the car things might not be to bad pending a positive inspection this week.

The power steering motors were updated in the build commecing early 03 onwards, so the 04's (Mk2b) Punto's shouldn't give that trouble to the same extent that the earlier ones did.

rugbyman

New Girl

there is a lot of misinformation going around about crashed cars.

we boughta damaged car, with panel damage and repaired it. some years later we had a slight tip. the car was deemed beyond ecomonic repair and
our insurers gave us the value of the car ,and the car for 100 euro.

we got it repaired and have since renewed our insurance with the sme company.

some time ago i considered moving to Quinn Direct,(to get my son insured at their competitive rates).
they were aware of the accident(s), either because I told them, or their info systems from the registration told them. the NCT was due and they asked me to get it tested and come back to them.
this reply may be a bit long winded but the point is damaged cars are repaired every day. If Quinn are happy enough with a NCT, then I suggest that re test at 50 odd euro is the best route for you.


regards Rugbyman

newgirl2010

thanks everyone for your responses

Latest update

i rang the tax office this morning with the reg of the car and explained my story, she is gone checking a few things now but it is down as a write off, she said some laws have changed lately in relation to write offs in Ireland so she is coming back to me with a definitive answer as to whether we can tax the car or not,... fingers crossed

I will sort out the insurance side of it then

newgirl2010

Latest news is that, the car is a category B write off, and can be used only for parts. Gutted. Cannot go back on the road. Caught rotten

shamwari

Call in your solicitor and go after the seller. Immediately.

newgirl2010

Its a disaster,, solicitors letter no harm i suppose

shamwari

The motor tax people may be able to give you previous owner details, and therefore you can contact the last owner(s) who should be able to tell you what exactly happened to the car. From there, there should be a trail to the last seller which will indicate whether or not they knew the car was a write-off.

If it transpires that the seller knew that it was a right off, the Gardai should be contacted again. In particular, I would ask them to pursue this as a fraud case, especially if there is an obligation on the seller to disclose material facts like this, and him failing to do so means they obtained money from you under false pretences. Not to mention selling a car not meant to be put back on the road in the first place. :mad:

newgirl2010

very latest update, he said he will meet us tomorrow with a refund

mickdw

Im shocked about it not being able to go back on the road. I didnt think there was such a system in place here. I still not sure you/tax office are correct. I mean for such a heavily damaged car to get fixed, it must have been worth alot of money, leading me to believe that the damage happened when the car was relatively new. I would therefore suspect that this car has been taxed since the accident.
Still a structurally damaged car is not what you want to driving around in. Good that you seem to be getting money back.... Hope he turns up.
Still, imagine if this happened with a €30,000 car and no money back!

newgirl2010

Hi, yep I rang tax office first, they had word that it was a write off and could not be taxed again, it wasnt taxed since the accident. the NCT passed the car 3 months after the accident. the motor dept in shannon confirmed twice to me today that it is a category B write off never to return to the road just suitable for parts and scrap.

BE CAREFUL.

newgirl2010

believe it or not, we got the money back -

shamwari

Great result and I'm really pleased for you and your mam. Top job!