The race for the Aras - politics or showbiz

mike65

The next Presidental election is due in late 2011 the runners and riders are as yet unknown but looking at the names being floated one can only wonder if its now become little more than a strange beauty contest.

Today Miriam O'Callaghan has been linked in a Sunday Tribune splash across the front page. Okay its August therefore quiet possibly utter nonsense but it could make some sense. She is seen by many as the acceptable afce of FF in skirt and if the party is having trouble drawing someone from the party - even Fianna Fail wouldn't dare select Bertie Aherne at this stage - then maybe a TV personality who is sympathtic would be just the job. She'd get the middle aged and elders vote and would be an excellent "Anti-Norris" candidate. Obviously her position in RTE would be an issue not to mention that of her husband who is a director of programmes.

David Norris (ind)
Michael D Higgins (the left)
Miriam O'Callaghan (FF)
Gerry Adams (too soon?)

Who would FG nominate?

Sunnyisland

mike65 wrote: »

The next Presidental election is due in late 2011 the runners and riders are as yet unknown but looking at the names being floated one can only wonder if its now become little more than a strange beauty contest.

Today Miriam O'Callaghan has been linked in a Sunday Tribune splash across the front page. Okay its August therefore quiet possibly utter nonsense but it could make some sense. She is seen by many as the acceptable afce of FF in skirt and if the party is having trouble drawing someone from the party - even Fianna Fail wouldn't dare select Bertie Aherne at this stage - then maybe a TV personality who is sympathtic would be just the job. She'd get the middle aged and elders vote and would be an excellent "Anti-Norris" candidate. Obviously her position in RTE would be an issue not to mention that of her husband who is a director of programmes.

David Norris (ind)
Michael D Higgins (the left)
Miriam O'Callaghan (FF)
Gerry Adams (too soon?)

Who would FG nominate?

:rolleyes: enda himself, seems that he wont be doing anything else at that time;)

mikemac

mike65 wrote: »

Who would FG nominate?

Mary Banotti perhaps, she is still active in different organizations
But she has to want it and and 71 I don't think she'd take it on.
So probably not going to happen

maynooth_rules

Miriam O'Callaghan. Is that what our country could be reduced to. Giving one of the most powerful positions in the country to a biased tv presenter who tries to flirt her way through every interview.

Elevator

I think it's about time we forget about us needing a president to blow our cash on

in fairness what does the president of Ireland actually do??

Elevator

maynooth_rules wrote: »

Miriam O'Callaghan. Is that what our country could be reduced to. Giving one of the most powerful positions in the country to a biased tv presenter who tries to flirt her way through every interview.

sure do you not know the whole system is a sham!!

I hate to say it but I am sick of it. people around me tell me to relax and just get on with life but how can I when all I can see is complete and utter bull**** everywhere I look.

Having to McAleese the last few years was bad enough and to think her competition for the job was none other than Dana (I mean for the love of Christ!!!)

I'm waiting for Brendan Kilkenny to throw his name out there

lugha

maynooth_rules wrote: »

Miriam O'Callaghan. Is that what our country could be reduced to. Giving one of the most powerful positions in the country to a biased tv presenter who tries to flirt her way through every interview.

Power? What are you talking about. The president has very few powers and doesn't even exercise them very often. When you note that both nominees and office holders in recent times are predominantly women, you know there is isn't a whole lot of power going with the job .

Don't know what John Bruton is up to at the moment. I think he would be a good candidate, though he wouldn't win.

Corsendonk

Hang on!! All those people have jobs! Shouldn't we be giving the job to some unemployed individual?

Wolfe Tone

The biggest thing the next president will be doing is overseeing the 2016 celebrations.


As much as I like Norris he is not suited for that role. He would be wasted as president.

lugha

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

The biggest thing the next president will be doing is overseeing the 2016 celebrations.

You are very optimistic if you think Ireland inc. (or even Rep. of Ireland inc.) will still be trading by 2016. And it we still are, I think we might have more pressing things on our mind.

Wolfe Tone

lugha wrote: »

You are very optimistic if you think Ireland inc. (or even Rep. of Ireland inc.) will still be trading by 2016. And it we still are, I think we might have more pressing things on our mind.

We will still be here by 2016. Things might be bad but we will still be here.

I suggest you take your opinions about the economic destiny of the 26 county state elsewhere as I am sure this thread is not the right place for it. Or maybe you think the world will end in 2012

lugha

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

Or maybe you think the world will end in 2012

2012? Nah. A united Ireland won't come that quickly. :pac:

Who would you favour for the "big" job anyway?

Wolfe Tone

lugha wrote: »

2012? Nah. A united Ireland won't come that quickly. :pac:

Who would you favour for the "big" job anyway?

Haha, that made me laugh.:)

I will probably get shot for this, but I would not be against Bertie. At least he cant do any damage there!

But I would like to see Gerry Adams in office. I hope he runs for it.

lugha

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

I will probably get shot for this, but I would not be against Bertie. At least he cant do any damage there!

I absolutely would not rule his running out at all. Surprizing as it is to many in this parish, he is still pretty popular.

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

But I would like to see Gerry Adams in office. I hope he runs for it.

I half suspect that that might be a step to far for Sinn Fein. It is one thing contesting and taking (or not!) seats in local or national elections if they can make a case that there is a material advantage for the cause in so doing. But to run for the largely ceremonial post of president would amount to a fairly clear assertion that they fully accept partition. And it would be very damaging I think if they ran someone and lost, which is more than possible.

Anyway, you should be careful what you wish for! It will be the government of the day who will determine the whats and whens of any 1916 celebration, the president will have to do as s(he) he told. And given that FG will probably be in power, they may opt for a conciliatory theme and double it up with an invitation to the queen or something.

Imagine Gerry’s face when Enda tells him he has to kiss QE2 on the lips. Hard. :eek:
Ok, unlikely perhaps. But it is more than likely that the next president will have to preside over an official visit by the queen. I somehow don’t think Gerry would be quite as thrilled as John Bruton reportedly was as such a prospect.

Our man in Havana

2016 celebrations

I would have said commemoration.

Leave the celebrations until 2021/22.

Wolfe Tone

lugha wrote: »

I absolutely would not rule his running out at all. Surprizing as it is to many in this parish, he is still pretty popular.

I like him, he is a genuinely nice man when you meet him.

I half suspect that that might be a step to far for Sinn Fein. It is one thing contesting and taking (or not!) seats in local or national elections if they can make a case that there is a material advantage for the cause in so doing. But to run for the largely ceremonial post of president would amount to a fairly clear assertion that they fully accept partition.

They already sit in the Dail and Stormont. Besides a SF president could be dressed up as a step towards unification.

And it would be very damaging I think if they ran someone and lost, which is more than possible.

I do not think it would be very damaging. You can spin these things.

Anyway, you should be careful what you wish for! It will be the government of the day who will determine the whats and whens of any 1916 celebration, the president will have to do as s(he) he told. And given that FG will probably be in power, they may opt for a conciliatory theme and double it up with an invitation to the queen or something.

Gery may have mellowed, but he still has some spine.

Imagine Gerry’s face when Enda tells him he has to kiss QE2 on the lips. Hard. :eek:

In that case I want facekicker as president, he will know what to do! :L

Ok, unlikely perhaps. But it is more than likely that the next president will have to preside over an official visit by the queen. I somehow don’t think Gerry would be quite as thrilled as John Bruton reportedly was as such a prospect.

I think Gerry would know how to deal with that woman. Bruton would cream himself.

Wolfe Tone

Haddockman wrote: »

I would have said commemoration.

Leave the celebrations until 2021/22.

What? Why? There will be huge celebrations, like there were in 1966. Maybe we can blow up the spire?

lugha

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

Gery may have mellowed, but he still has some spine.

Spine doesn't come in to it. In many respects the president is the lap dog of the government. He could do very little without their prior approval. And if he is told he's got to be sweet to the Queen then he'll pretty much have to do it, or resign.

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

There will be huge celebrations, like there were in 1966. Maybe we can blow up the spire?

Meh. How good could it be? I won't be joining in! :pac: Isn't 2016 an Olympic and Euro finals year? At least there's something for me to look forward to!

Wolfe Tone

lugha wrote: »

Spine doesn't come in to it. In many respects the president is the lap dog of the government. He could do very little without their prior approval. And if he is told he's got to be sweet to the Queen then he'll pretty much have to do it, or resign.

He could always lie and do what he wanted?

Meh. How good could it be? I won't be joining in! :pac: Isn't 2016 an Olympic and Euro finals year? At least there's something for me to look forward to!

What exactly are you? Are you Irish?(not being smart here, just curious, the vast majority of Irish people will celebrate) I expect a huge amount of people to be out celebrating, and rightfully so.

Our man in Havana

Time to book some holidays abroad for easter 2016. It will be like a 12th weekend up north everyone will want out that weekend.

Wolfe Tone

Haddockman wrote: »

Time to book some holidays abroad for easter 2016. It will be like a 12th weekend up north everyone will want out that weekend.

Why? I doubt it.

Our man in Havana

I will have no time for triumphalist celebrations of something that will have no relevance to me. No doubt there will be extra bank holidays and other crap to deal with. Best take a week or two off and leave the Irish to their celebrations.

I have nothing against such celebrations, I would just like to opt out.

Wolfe Tone

Haddockman wrote: »

I will have no time for triumphalist celebrations of something that will have no relevance to me. No doubt there will be extra bank holidays and other crap to deal with. Best take a week or two off and leave the Irish to their celebrations.

I have nothing against such celebrations, I would just like to opt out.

Ah I see..... you are not Irish then?

Our man in Havana

Nope.

Wolfe Tone

Haddockman wrote: »

Nope.

I see what you mean then, for instance I would not be particularly interested in celebrating Americas Independence for example. Would mean little to me seen as I am not an american.

Corsendonk

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

Haha, that made me laugh.:)

I will probably get shot for this, but I would not be against Bertie. At least he cant do any damage there!

But I would like to see Gerry Adams in office. I hope he runs for it.

Whoever wins it will need the support of the major parties, I can't see any publically backing a Sein Fein nomination. Its a figure head role so would have to be a broadly accepted candidate and I just can't see the vast majority of ROI voters voting for him.

lugha

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

He could always lie and do what he wanted?

You mean call in sick or something on the day he as supposed to meet her? He’ll have to think a bit harder than that. :pac:
Seriously, I do think a possible royal visit would impact Sinn Fein's thinking on running a candidate.

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

What exactly are you? Are you Irish?(not being smart here, just curious, the vast majority of Irish people will celebrate) I expect a huge amount of people to be out celebrating, and rightfully so.

Yes, I am Irish. Certainly many will celebrate (not sure about the vast majority though). Just as many British people would celebrate the various jubilees of the Queen or some ancient victories of the old empire without considering any reservations about the ethics of any of these things.

Similarly the Irish will ignore (or in most cases, simply never consider) that there is a logical inconsistency in making heroes of one group (1916 gang) who purported to represent the Irish people without a mandate while simultaneously demonising another group (dissident republicans) for doing the same thing. I genuinely believe that we would not have the dissidents as we do, or PIRA before them claiming to be the legitimate government of Ireland, had we not made a hero of Pearce.

Anyway, specific reservations in the Irish case aside, I tend to dislike nationalism, of any hue and in any country. Along with religion, I see nationalism / tribalism as something which brings out the most vilest impulses in mankind. Look at the absolute worse horrors in human history, you’ll tend to find that either tribalism or religion were somehow involved.

Anyway, anyway, totally off topic.

Wolfe Tone

lugha wrote: »

You mean call in sick or something on the day he as supposed to meet her? He’ll have to think a bit harder than that. :pac:
Seriously, I do think a possible royal visit would impact Sinn Fein's thinking on running a candidate.

Say one thing and do another.... politicians make a career of it

Yes, I am Irish. Certainly many will celebrate (not sure about the vast majority though). Just as many British people would celebrate the various jubilees of the Queen or some ancient victories of the old empire without considering any reservations about the ethics of any of these things.

I would compare it more to americans celebrating their independence, nothing wrong with it. The 100year mark is a milestone.

Similarly the Irish will ignore (or in most cases, simply never consider) that there is a logical inconsistency in making heroes of one group (1916 gang) who purported to represent the Irish people without a mandate while simultaneously demonising another group (dissident republicans) for doing the same thing. I genuinely believe that we would not have the dissidents as we do, or PIRA before them claiming to be the legitimate government of Ireland, had we not made a hero of Pearce.

I genuinely believe had we have gotten full Independence for the whole island, ie what the heroes wanted, we would have none of those things. Instead, we half assed it.

Anyway, specific reservations in the Irish case aside, I tend to dislike nationalism, of any hue and in any country. Along with religion, I see nationalism / tribalism as something which brings out the most vilest impulses in mankind. Look at the absolute worse horrors in human history, you’ll tend to find that either tribalism or religion were somehow involved.

Well thats your opinion and you are entitled to it.

Anyway, anyway, totally off topic.

Yeah I agree. Feel free to PM instead of us continuing to derail the thread

deise go deo

lugha wrote: »

Similarly the Irish will ignore (or in most cases, simply never consider) that there is a logical inconsistency in making heroes of one group (1916 gang) who purported to represent the Irish people without a mandate while simultaneously demonising another group (dissident republicans) for doing the same thing. I genuinely believe that we would not have the dissidents as we do, or PIRA before them claiming to be the legitimate government of Ireland, had we not made a hero of Pearce.

I dont see a logical inconsistincy there. Pearce and the learders of 1916 fought a clean fight well within the rules of war. You can say that he had no right to do what he did, but where was Britains right to occupy this country?

I reject disedent republicanism not because they use violence but because of how they use it, because of their connections to crime and the drug trade and because I beleive that it is possible to acheive a United Ireland peacefully.




As for the next presedent, I saw David Norris on RTÉ last week. I think it would be a shame not to have a man of his talent and passion representing this country.

Wolfe Tone

As for the next presedent, I saw David Norris on RTÉ last week. I think it would be a shame not to have a man of his talent and passion representing this country.

You are aware of his opinion of the 1916 men?

johnnyskeleton

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

Haha, that made me laugh.:)

I will probably get shot for this, but I would not be against Bertie. At least he cant do any damage there!

But I would like to see Gerry Adams in office. I hope he runs for it.

The presidential election is quite important, not in itself, but in a wider political context.

It would be a good barometer for the elections which follow in 2012.

Usually, the Irish electorate use non general elections to voice their hatred of the ruling party, before promptly putting them back in in the next general.

If FF were smart, they would put a figure of hate in the presidential so that they would get trounced in it, only to bounce back in the next general, the public anger having been assauged. However, perhaps this time it will be different, and if we did see a president Bertie or Miriam that could be a rally call for FF across the country i.e. "back on track" etc.

However they play it, I really hope FG and Labour play this one well. Sadly though, I suspect they will mess it up.

deise go deo

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

You are aware of his opinion of the 1916 men?

Indeed, However he is entitled to his opinion and there are more than enough things about him that I like and admire for me to see past his views of the 1916 leaders.

imme

lugha wrote: »

I absolutely would not rule his running out at all. Surprizing as it is to many in this parish, he is still pretty popular. (1)


I half suspect that that might be a step to far for Sinn Fein. It is one thing contesting and taking (or not!) seats in local or national elections if they can make a case that there is a material advantage for the cause in so doing. But to run for the largely ceremonial post of president would amount to a fairly clear assertion that they fully accept partition. (2) It would be very damaging I think if they ran someone and lost, which is more than possible.

Anyway, you should be careful what you wish for! It will be the government of the day who will determine the whats and whens of any 1916 celebration, the president will have to do as s(he) he told. And given that FG will probably be in power, they may opt for a conciliatory theme and double it up with an invitation to the queen or something. (3)

Imagine Gerry’s face when Enda tells him he has to kiss QE2 on the lips. Hard. :eek:
Ok, unlikely perhaps. But it is more than likely that the next president will have to preside over an official visit by the queen. I somehow don’t think Gerry would be quite as thrilled as John Bruton reportedly was as such a prospect.

(1) I don't see Sinn Fein winning with Adams, I don't see him even being interested, doesn't he have like 2 books a year to write:cool:. If they run someone it would probably be a woman, Mary Lou anyone.

(2) Are we back to doublespeak Lugha. Does taking seats in the Orieachtas and the NI Assembly not mean that a party accepts partition:rolleyes:. How would running for the Presidency be any different.

(3) *yawns*, "a concilliatory theme", yeah whatever.:cool:

lugha

imme wrote: »

Does taking seats in the Orieachtas and the NI Assembly not mean that a party accepts partition:rolleyes:. How would running for the Presidency be any different.

I addressed that in an earlier post. :rolleyes:
Sinn Fein can, and presumably did, persuade their followers that becoming official public representatives in states they did not recognize (something they were doing long before the ceasefire) might be unpalatable but the various practical benefits of doing so would offset these reservations. I think in seeking and accepting the role of president of Ireland (republic only!), which is largely ceremonial, they could not make the same argument.
Bobby Sands standing for Westminister in 1981 clearly did not indicate any acknowledgment of British legitimacy in NI. Not all elections are the same.

Wolfe Tone

deise go deo wrote: »

Indeed, However he is entitled to his opinion and there are more than enough things about him that I like and admire for me to see past his views of the 1916 leaders.

Despite the fact that the 2016 celebrations will be the main role he will have?

Would a man of his talents not be better to continue what he is doing in the senate, or even better, in the Dail? I believe he would be.

Wolfe Tone

lugha wrote: »

I addressed that in an earlier post. :rolleyes:
Sinn Fein can, and presumably did, persuade their followers that becoming official public representatives in states they did not recognize (something they were doing long before the ceasefire) might be unpalatable but the various practical benefits of doing so would offset these reservations. I think in seeking and accepting the role of president of Ireland (republic only!), which is largely ceremonial, they could not make the same argument.
Bobby Sands standing for Westminister in 1981 clearly did not indicate any acknowledgment of British legitimacy in NI. Not all elections are the same.

McGuinness and other SF people have been calling for people in the 6 counties to be allowed to vote for the president. That could be relevant.

Eliot Rosewater

He thinks the 1916 risers were terrorists? Well, he's got my vote at least.

imme

lugha wrote: »

I addressed that in an earlier post. :rolleyes:
Sinn Fein can, and presumably did, persuade their followers that becoming official public representatives in states they did not recognize (something they were doing long before the ceasefire) might be unpalatable but the various practical benefits of doing so would offset these reservations. I think in seeking and accepting the role of president of Ireland (republic only!), which is largely ceremonial, they could not make the same argument.
Bobby Sands standing for Westminister in 1981 clearly did not indicate any acknowledgment of British legitimacy in NI. Not all elections are the same.

I think that Sir is baloney. I'm not having a go Lugha, nor am I saying that you speak for SF, but come on.
People run in elections for power. If a party that runs in an election then forms a government in the body they were elected to then they de facto accept the implications, partition etc etc etc etc.

If they were to say they didn't then that would be Doublespeak of the highest order and one would not be able to trust them.

Corsendonk

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

McGuinness and other SF people have been calling for people in the 6 counties to be allowed to vote for the president. That could be relevant.

I agree they can vote down here once they start paying taxes down here.

lugha

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

McGuinness and other SF people have been calling for people in the 6 counties to be allowed to vote for the president. That could be relevant.

Well, this is off topic again but I absolutely would not give a vote in any Irish election to a person not living in the jurisdiction. If you want to vote here, live here and pay your taxes here. And yes, I am aware that other countries afford some voting rights to ex-pats. Wrong, wrong wrong I say.

lugha

imme wrote: »

I'm not having a go Lugha, nor am I saying that you speak for SF, but come on.

No, I have to admit I am not a spokesman for SF. The idea brought a smile to my face though.

imme wrote: »

People run in elections for power. If a party that runs in an election then forms a government in the body they were elected to then they de facto accept the implications, partition etc etc etc etc.

If they were to say they didn't then that would be Doublespeak of the highest order and one would not be able to trust them.

Well I am not fully convinced. When they stop using terms like 6 counties and 26 counties I might believe that they do.

Liam Byrne

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

But I would like to see Gerry Adams in office. I hope he runs for it.

How can Gerry Adams run for president of a country that he doesn't recognise, continuously referring to it via phrases like "the 26 counties" or "the south", as if "The Republic of Ireland" didn't exist ?

As for Ahern - if he gets elected I'm emigrating! I know he couldn't do damage there but the thoughts of him being rewarded for his disastrous tenure by plonking his Aras in Phoenix Park and "representing the country" at official events is a step too far.

There's a certain big house he should be put into, and its name starts with "Mount".

mike65

Adams taking the salute of the real Irish Army would be amusing alright.

deise go deo

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

Despite the fact that the 2016 celebrations will be the main role he will have?

Well he is a politician, Im sure he would do what is expected of him on the day.

Would a man of his talents not be better to continue what he is doing in the senate, or even better, in the Dail? I believe he would be.

The senate isent a very influential body at the best of times. As for the Dail, Well im not in his constituency so I cant vote for him there, If thats what he wants to do then I wouldent mind him goeing down that route but he has said he wants to go for president and I beleive he would make an eccelent president.

Adams taking the salute of the real Irish Army would be amusing alright.

Not so much amusing as creepy. I cant see him getting it though. The Army would be pissed he got in.

The tought of him being the comander in chief.:(

PeterIanStaker

3 pages and nobody's mentioned Dustin? :mad:

Our man in Havana

He is not old enough.

deise go deo

Vote DUSTIN No. 1

''Twice the price for half the work''

Main aim:

-Supports Turkey's bid for entry to the EU

:D:D

Wolfe Tone

Would todays Ireland really vote en mass for Norris?

Jeanious

Say what ya want about him, but i'd say David Norris would love it in the Aras

PeterIanStaker

Sure there's no need to f8cking vote at all, Bertie will nominate himself and it'll all be grand.

Our man in Havana

Bertie can't nominate himself.